Soma is pretty good. Didn't know that. He could be the guy to beat Flash.
Did Soma ever play vs Flash in past ASLs?
i dont recall if they've played in ASL before. I would imagine so, but Soma is actually pretty known for his zvT. He has had one of the best zvts in the world for a while now. So all in all very terrifying player. So he def has an amazing chance vs flash because he can take games off of his terran. And flash for sure is going to struggle vs him zvz and pvz.
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Last edit: 20/10/2020 17:14
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PoorUser United States. Oct 20 2020 21:53. Posts 7471
flash is at least 2-0 vs soma in asl, though the games i can remember were fairly competitive
I think Soma should be a favorite. Seems like he would be losing less EV vs terran than he gains vs protoss and zerg, and most of the maps seem a little tilted towards Z.
I'm unsure on how to rank the zergs. ZvZ seems kinda random (i.e. is the best ZvZ 60% in 1 match vs the 5th best ZvZ?), ZvP seems soulkey/zero are the best, and ZvT I do like soma but it's probably close with soulkey.
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I can't say for certain, never watch much ZvZ outside ASL. I tend to like larva's style of getting a base and making spores and then eventually having more mutas and being able to control the map with protection at home. I always thought action had fantastic ZvZ (possibly even the best?) and larva beat him in ro16, whereas soulkey seems more similar to queen where they have unreal zvt/zvp and are a little weaker zvz.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
On October 21 2020 04:09 Daut wrote:
I can't say for certain, never watch much ZvZ outside ASL. I tend to like larva's style of getting a base and making spores and then eventually having more mutas and being able to control the map with protection at home. I always thought action had fantastic ZvZ (possibly even the best?) and larva beat him in ro16, whereas soulkey seems more similar to queen where they have unreal zvt/zvp and are a little weaker zvz.
It's strange that these two never played that much over a three year sample.
38 games don't really show that much. I'm not feeling all too good in my Larva/Zero parlay right now.
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DooMeR United States. Oct 21 2020 18:03. Posts 8545
On October 21 2020 02:46 captainhook wrote:
Just wondering what you guys think of Soulkey's ZvZ and vs Larva specfically. Soulkey is +120. Value or not?
Larva is -165.
i am horrible when it comes to these numbers. but id say say soulkey is favorite though not by a huge margin. maybe 55% or something. its zvz which can be flippy when people are similar skill imo.
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On October 21 2020 01:21 Daut wrote:
I think Soma should be a favorite. Seems like he would be losing less EV vs terran than he gains vs protoss and zerg, and most of the maps seem a little tilted towards Z.
I'm unsure on how to rank the zergs. ZvZ seems kinda random (i.e. is the best ZvZ 60% in 1 match vs the 5th best ZvZ?), ZvP seems soulkey/zero are the best, and ZvT I do like soma but it's probably close with soulkey.
But theres also EV in the uncertainty, lets say Soma vs (T) Flash is 40% to win, but Soma vs (R) Terran Flash is 30% due to non-ideal BO.
soulkey's zvz is very mediocre. larva's ain't nothing to call home about too but as are all zergs who aren't in the top 1 to 3. larva though has a bit of momentum lately while soulkey is in a huge slump
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ToT)MidiaN( United Kingdom. Oct 22 2020 10:21. Posts 5070
I don't think either Larva or Soulkey are really ZvZ standouts. I think Larva is the small favourite in reality, but -165 is too steep to be a +EV bet in my eyes. Nobody has really dominated ZvZ in the fashion Jaedong once did and nobody really stands out above anyone else when you're talking about the top half-a-dozen or so Zergs.
Regarding Soma, he has gone 0-5 vs Bisu in sponbbang games today! I still think he's currently the best Zerg overall though. He seems to have highest winrates ZvZ vs every other top Zerg I've checked stats of, he's consistently the most difficult opponent for the top Terran players along with SoulKey and consistently very strong in ZvP also. Must say though, it was a real shame Bisu threw it hard in the group stages, he still is crushing it online and could've gone far in this ASL given how strong he is vs Zerg, and with so many Zergs remaining.
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DooMeR United States. Oct 22 2020 14:23. Posts 8545
On October 22 2020 09:21 ToT)MidiaN( wrote:
I don't think either Larva or Soulkey are really ZvZ standouts. I think Larva is the small favourite in reality, but -165 is too steep to be a +EV bet in my eyes. Nobody has really dominated ZvZ in the fashion Jaedong once did and nobody really stands out above anyone else when you're talking about the top half-a-dozen or so Zergs.
Regarding Soma, he has gone 0-5 vs Bisu in sponbbang games today! I still think he's currently the best Zerg overall though. He seems to have highest winrates ZvZ vs every other top Zerg I've checked stats of, he's consistently the most difficult opponent for the top Terran players along with SoulKey and consistently very strong in ZvP also. Must say though, it was a real shame Bisu threw it hard in the group stages, he still is crushing it online and could've gone far in this ASL given how strong he is vs Zerg, and with so many Zergs remaining.
ye it rly seems bisu has just been underperforming for quite a while. His pvt not being amazing also kind of hurts him. I watch terran streams frequently and it always seems like stork does way better than bisu. Granted stork is known for good pvt but still. Terrans nowadays seem to be doing quite well vs protoss except snow. So he really needs to bring that MU up a bit.
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United States. Oct 20 2020 21:53. Posts 7471
