UFC 143: Diaz vs. Condit - Page 4

On February 03 2012 18:15 Jhyun88 wrote: ... I actually see Diaz v Condit fight being very similar to Little Diaz vs Cowboy fight. ...

Interesting thought.
Havent really thought about it this way but if u look closely its almost frightening how similar the circumtsances are right now compared to what they were in the Diaz-Cerrone fight.

basically Nick Diaz is Nate Diaz + 10% Skill in every area
and Carlos Condit kinda is similar to Donald Cerrone a very good athletic striker who also has decent groundgame but for the most part likes to stand and kick+ bang (not even sure if better skillwise)

Nate Diaz was comming of impressive wins but still everybody said he kinda inst really that good . Same with Nick Diaz currently
Cerrone was comming of 4-0 impressive UFC run same as Condit is comming of 4 impressive UFC wins in a row now

if u think about it the conditions are very very similar

I dont think Werdum vs Nelson is going to be a stand up fight, Nelson has a sick chin and endurance, Werdum is going to try to take him down and if he manages to do that Nelsons BJJ blackbelt will be meaningless, i dont remember how well Nelson defends takedown against the cage.

On February 02 2012 01:26 Daut wrote: diaz wouldnt stand a chance against kos/fitch/gsp in anything under 99 round fights. the guy just cant stop a takedown to save his life and has been blessed with opponents that have had no submission defense at all in his past 10 fights. hes lucky condit isnt much of a wrestler. he still can probably take diaz down a bunch if he wants to, and im sure he will if the standup isnt going his way. diaz is still a very incomplete fighter. hes extremely susceptible to legkicks and wrestling, and i suspect carlos will try to do that to win this fight. as for stopping diaz, you basically just need to land a huge shot and flurry fast, otherwise the guy recovers. its definitely possible though with carlos power in all of his limbs. id set the line at close to a pickem though. diaz accumulating damage and stopping carlos over 5 rounds is the most likely outcome, but i think carlos will find a way to win a decent amount of the time and cannot be counted out.

He definitely is really susceptible to leg kicks. Even Santos, husband of the female animal champion cyborg, had early success from simply using leg kicks from the get go before getting knocked around late in the round and getting submitted in the second. And Santos is a decent fighter but certainly not top tier. Don't necessarily agree he's just totally vulnerable to wrestling though. Sure he can't stop takedowns well but he seems to take minimal damage when he does and his submission skills just aren't shown enough because of who he is. He just wants to stand and trade.

Oh and yea if there was anyone in the welterweight division that was going to potentially smash through Diaz's solid chin/recovery skills, I'd say it's Condit too.

The real question imo is how well Diaz defends against knees and elbows from around the clinch. Because well...Condits' are vicious.

The good thing about Diaz is that he's not a 1 punch KO artist, so Condit doesn't have to worry about that, he just needs to keep moving and stay busy or Diaz will overwhelm him.

As for comparing Condit to Cerrone, I wouldn't. Cerrone has good skill, but he acts like a cowboy in and outside the ring and is there to fight with his fists. He wants to prove he's manly and beat all of his opponents with his superior striking. Too bad Cerrone mainly boxed vs. Nate, which was a mistake.

Condit is a smarter fighter than Cerrone and has more tools than both Diaz and Cerrone, he just needs to play smart like he usually does and use them all, instead of falling into Diaz's game.

Well i can relate to all the guys who simply get overwhelmed by Diaz pace.
I have sparred with some high regional class Boxers in my town and its just so stressfull.

They give u no time to breathe
No matter what u do they always stand right in front of u and punch. Nonstop

The normal process in a standup exchange is that the person who gets hit either gets Koed or backs up.
So when u are under preassure u cover up under your double guard till u find a timing hole and than make a counterstrike.
usually u either hit -> now its you on the offence who can be agressive
or u miss and have to do it again.

VS Nick Diaz its different though
There will rain punches down on you no matter if u hit him back or not.
It just never stopps

And at one point your brain goes crazy since u just dont know wtf is happening and how he can throw 400 punches at u without ever taking a break

Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers?

I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens?

Damn... Dana was giving away tickets @ the Mandalay and I live like 10 minutes away from there. I feel stupid for not going.

On February 04 2012 16:40 Night2o1 wrote: Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers? I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens?

BJJ is nice and all.

usually good wrestling owns BJJ hell of a lot.
BJJ guy just lies on back and cant do shit even when he has 2-3 black belts
Wrestler lies on TOP and wins a boring descision

ofc there are exceptions where the BJJ somehow manages to own the wrestler
However its the other way round 5 of 6 times.

Nice knockout to get it all started =)

most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top

On February 04 2012 17:49 PplusAD wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2012 16:40 Night2o1 wrote: Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers? I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens? BJJ is nice and all. usually good wrestling owns BJJ hell of a lot. BJJ guy just lies on back and cant do shit even when he has 2-3 black belts Wrestler lies on TOP and wins a boring descision ofc there are exceptions where the BJJ somehow manages to own the wrestler However its the other way round 5 of 6 times.

well, the wrestlers are well versed in BJJ themselves, at least the ones who know how to control legit black belts whilst on top.
that said very few of the ufc fighters are legitimate high level bjj guys, having a black belt is a mark of dedication and understanding. anyone can get a black belt, however not everyone can even qualify for adcc, much less make any significant showing.

also if you stop training bjj to train something else your bjj instincts become lessened which then makes you all the more susceptible to being wrestlefucked.

edit:

On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote: most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top

i don't think you've heard of eddie bravo, or jeff glover. ( in regards to half guard/bottom subs)
also most adcc matches aren't half guard wars, and a lot of the higher level matches actually end up being 70% standing wars ( especially in higher weight classes).

this is all referring to no gi.

On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote: most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top

I agree

On February 04 2012 18:41 PplusAD wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote: most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top I agree

only because nick has developed his bjj to mostly control, or get up so he can do his striking which is his forte. Even then i think pure bjj match 5 minutes its probably 60/40 wrestler if he starts on top.

First UFC event that I get to see in a while.

nice

Looked like Riddle was in trouble there

i really hate how u get no adds in PPV now and instead that ultra annoying "UFC will be back shortly" screen for 2 minutes after and before every fight (at least thats how it is in case u watch from germany)

lol bruce "nutcracker" leeroy

Guy thinks its soccer.