BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 06:44. Posts 1525
^ yeah. when he was raising his arms and telling condit 'cmon' and following him at the end of each round, i was like cool, diaz is trying to rile condit up. but no, he was just being laaaaame.
just shows mentally he wasn't ready for the fight. any good fighter would've adapted and find a way to take condit's game plan apart.
hoped best man would win when it started, felt really neutral.
But felt wrong, I don't like how this is judged. Surely dominance, control, pushing forward counts a lot more than literally jogging/running, jumping away for 25 minutes.
I can relate to him being angry, felt like a steal. I hate when it's some angleshooting. I guess I'll go along with Condit winning the game, but nowhere near winning the fight.
Had diaz 1,2,3,5, and condit clearly had 4. But in mariushead, control, pushing forward, dominance count for 33%, so pretty clear win with my madeup rules lol.
isnt MMA about implementing your own gameplan and denying his? Carlos would be an idiot to get in a firefight with diaz. He outlanded nick by a wide margin and avoided nicks strikes. Not attempting to take the fight to the ground or change strategy was due to him believing he won the majority of rounds. If it aint broke dont fix it. Do you guys understand what the difference between going out on his shield vs diaz, maybe winning a fight of the night and making the fans kinda happy vs winning this fight is? let me break it down for you.
now that condit is champion, he gets a ppv cut. lets say its $1 per buy. so if his UFC career is 10 more fights, and the average show he is on does 350k buys, thats 3.5 million dollars he expects to make. whereas a fight of the night bonus would be 65k, he would maybe get a decent discretionary bonus of like 100k, would possibly get a rematch with diaz before gsp returned, but would have no assurance of getting anywhere near the kind of money he would by taking a proper gameplan to victory.
not to mention, who the fuck WANTS to get their ass kicked? YOU PLAY, TO WIN, THE GAME
and for those of you who had diaz winning because of moving forward, here is my basic scoring criteria for a fight. 67% damage, 33% control, thats it. control is much less important than damage, so hes giving up a small portion of the fight to win a bigger portion. actually i could argue condit controlled the distance of the fight and avoided a ton of nicks takedowns, so he controlled just as much of the fight as diaz walking at him.
condit clearly outstruck diaz and implemented a great gameplan to land a lot of strikes while avoiding taking damage from nick. he set a record for the # of legkicks landed in a fight and took less punches from diaz in 5 rounds than most take in 2. he should be applauded for using a great plan to beat the #2 170 in the world. instead hes attacked for it? i just dont get it man.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Just feels off, not sure I can explain with words, it's suppose to be a fight, 2 of the best fighters in the world, and when it's over, both of them have at least 50% strength left. Diaz did get out thought, and Condit felt a lot more clever, but still feels like it's kinda borderline. Like when people first started cutting weight, and some amateur kickboxer who can't fight very well, just started cutting weight addeind 30 pounds and just pushing ppl out the ring. I'll rewatch the fight when I'm thinking more clearly.
End of a fight should be more like Shogun vs Henderson. Still feel it's deserved that Condit won with the way MMA works, but hope they change the rules somewhat, you get warning for avoiding to fight so much. IF you just lay on a guy, you get talked to sick fast, and that one fight, the black judge, kept telling them to fight all the time. And in this fight he could run and "pretend" to be fighting when he was just doing a game plan, it's harder to see, more elusive, but something definitely not right.
I think Condit is a person I have a better liking to, and think he's fantastic, so don't feel it's some Diaz fascination.
If this was Flash vs Jaedong final, and they discovered a new exploit bug, and one of them was doing it and won the finals, i'd be dissapointed at the guy "exploiting".
Last edit: 05/02/2012 14:51
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 15:05. Posts 7292
What bugs me is that one of the judging criteria is "Octagon Control"...
How does that equate to a 49-46 score on anyone's scorecard wtf
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 15:08. Posts 7292
It's possible that over the course of 25 minutes, Diaz walked forward upwards of 1 mile.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 15:14. Posts 13829
On February 05 2012 11:07 Daut wrote:
isnt MMA about implementing your own gameplan and denying his? Carlos would be an idiot to get in a firefight with diaz. He outlanded nick by a wide margin and avoided nicks strikes. Not attempting to take the fight to the ground or change strategy was due to him believing he won the majority of rounds. If it aint broke dont fix it. Do you guys understand what the difference between going out on his shield vs diaz, maybe winning a fight of the night and making the fans kinda happy vs winning this fight is? let me break it down for you.
now that condit is champion, he gets a ppv cut. lets say its $1 per buy. so if his UFC career is 10 more fights, and the average show he is on does 350k buys, thats 3.5 million dollars he expects to make. whereas a fight of the night bonus would be 65k, he would maybe get a decent discretionary bonus of like 100k, would possibly get a rematch with diaz before gsp returned, but would have no assurance of getting anywhere near the kind of money he would by taking a proper gameplan to victory.
not to mention, who the fuck WANTS to get their ass kicked? YOU PLAY, TO WIN, THE GAME
and for those of you who had diaz winning because of moving forward, here is my basic scoring criteria for a fight. 67% damage, 33% control, thats it. control is much less important than damage, so hes giving up a small portion of the fight to win a bigger portion. actually i could argue condit controlled the distance of the fight and avoided a ton of nicks takedowns, so he controlled just as much of the fight as diaz walking at him.
condit clearly outstruck diaz and implemented a great gameplan to land a lot of strikes while avoiding taking damage from nick. he set a record for the # of legkicks landed in a fight and took less punches from diaz in 5 rounds than most take in 2. he should be applauded for using a great plan to beat the #2 170 in the world. instead hes attacked for it? i just dont get it man.
I basically agree, and I do agree that on judging criteria Condit won.
The problem is that the UFC (and the fans) want and need exciting fights -- game plans are fine and important -- but we would of literally had NO fight at all if Diaz wasn't pressing the action constantly. And yet, if Diaz had a gameplan that involved evasion and trying to score points on counters, like Condit, they would both of been reprimanded for their boring shitty fight by the UFC and the fans.
Diaz made the fight. Making a fight is part of the criteria for judging BECAUSE it is essential to the entertainment factor (talking about the Aggression & Octagon Control). Diaz earned 100% of the points in this regard, but it wasn't reflected at-fucking-all in the judging. 46-49 is a god damn insult and the fact that anyone could justify that as a 46-49 fight is a huge, huge double standard on the part of the UFC's judging criteria vs what the UFC wants out of its fighters.
I think this is a major part of why people (especially Diaz lol) are upset with this fight.
judging criteria, which includes aggression and octagon control, needs to be adhered to -- and maybe tweaked a bit if the current ruleset is going to cause the average fight to degenerate into a ring around the posie.
(46-49!!!!!!!!!!! twice! it isn't like Diaz was about to fall over dead from his injuries! legit submission attempts should count reasonably on the scoring as well since they often necessitate the relinquishment of dominant positions, and generate legit excitement/action.. I need to look up the exact judging criteria before I comment more)
Last edit: 05/02/2012 15:24
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NMcNasty United States. Feb 05 2012 15:53. Posts 2041
I don't count simply moving forward as either control or aggression. One fighter wanting to keep the fight moving and on the outside while the other is wanting an inside brawl is a common situation. A fighter shouldn't be punished for dictating where the fight occurs if that's what plays to his advantages. Condit really didn't look much different than Edgar or Dominic Cruz here.
if diaz was backing up condit would 100% have come forward with kicks/knees/elbows/punches. but diaz is diaz, he always does his best zombie impression in fights.
fightmetric had it 48-47 condit. rounds 3/5 are extremely close for them, 1/2 were clear victories for each guy and 4 was dominant for condit
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 16:36. Posts 13829
Edgar has gone in and engaged in the fights of his I've seen. Slipping in and out of range is different from constantly backpedalling and sprinting from the cage. Same with Cruz....
Yea I can buy some of the arguments (although anyone judging it 49-46 has to be a little bit weird) but this is the last time I buy a PPV including a Jackson "fighter" and I'll probably stop buying the although. Who the fuck cars about a fight if you can win it by going backwards and not actually trying to finish or throwing anything with bad intentions for 25 minutes?
I guess one or two of the head kicks that missed might have had some power, but other than that it just felt like Bisping had gotten a lot prettier, lost some of his power and all of his charisma.
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 18:11. Posts 13829
This is what 4oz gloves can do to a sport. As the fighters get really good at striking, people get KTFO with increasing frequency and variance increases (happening now), fights get more technical since fighters basically fight for money/fame alone, except for people like Nick Diaz. It also destroys "storylines" the league has created to build up for superfights and such, it's like the WWE but having the variance and unpredicability of K-1.
Last edit: 05/02/2012 20:48
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 05 2012 21:13. Posts 13257
Sup guys, sorry I wasn't around yesterday, my friend called me at the last minute to see if I wanted to hang out, so we saw the fights at a local bar/restaurant.
- Going to a bar/restaurant to watch fights is overrated. The only difference is you get to see the fights on a massive TV, but I'm personally okay with watching them in my room on my 20+ inch flat screen.
- Dustin Poirier made me happy, I cant wait till he gets some better opponents. The guy he fought yesterday was a last minute replacement after 2 other guys he was supposed to fight got injured.
- Mike Pierce got robbed, Koscheck looked like an in shape bum.
- Bruce Leroy got robbed, but it's his fault for not controlling his kicks.
- Matt Riddle still fucking sucks, he had to get that take down in round 3 to warrant a split decision win and save his job.
- Stephen Thompson proved why he's 56-0 in kickboxing with that head kick KO over Stittgen.
- Renan Barao looked good, but his gas tank was exposed in that fight, he was noticeably slower in rounds 2 and 3. I think he should get a title shot soon, but he needs to improve his tank.
- Werdum looked sick as fuck in his striking, I'm never going to hate on him anymore, as long as he doesn't lay on the ground and pray for his opponent to lay on top of him again.
- Nick Diaz is a cry baby little bitch. I had Condit winning rounds 3/4/5 (I know it was 3 rounds to 2, mind is groggy after hangover, so maybe it was a different combo of 3 rounds for Condit), although 5 was close due to that take down. I would have scored it a split decision win.
- Condit was using a Mayweather style of fighting. He knew he was the faster, more technical fighter with a lot more tools in his arsenal, so he landed more shots and stayed out of harms way to capture the belt, which was smart, but he could have landed more shots if he wanted to.
Fighters were awarded $65,000 bonuses
Fight of the Night: Roy Nelson vs. Fabricio Werdum
Knockout of the Night: Stephen Thompson
Submission of the Night: Dustin Poirier
On February 05 2012 00:37 NMcNasty wrote: Judge Cecil Peoples had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.
Only rounds all the judges agreed on were 1 and 4 for Condit.
Rekrul is a newb
Last edit: 05/02/2012 21:36
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 21:24. Posts 1525
rematch imo
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 05 2012 23:03. Posts 1383
On February 05 2012 20:13 PuertoRican wrote:
- Condit was using a Mayweather style of fighting. He knew he was the faster, more technical fighter with a lot more tools in his arsenal, so he landed more shots and stayed out of harms way to capture the belt, which was smart, but he could have landed more shots if he wanted to.
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No.... Mayweather actually stays in the pocket and uses head movement and gloves to be elusive. Carlos Condit literally ran away after a short exchange. There's not a lot of guys in the world that can do what Mayweather does. Carlos isn't even close.
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United States. Feb 05 2012 12:07. Posts 8955
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