PuertoRican United States. Jan 30 2012 22:04. Posts 13257
Date: Saturday, February 4th
Preliminary Card (Facebook): 18:00 LP.net
Preliminary Card (FX): 19:00 LP.net
Main Card Time: 21:00 LP.net
Live Streams: http://www.vipbox.tv (All MMA events are listed under the UFC button. Press the UFC button and you'll see the event in the list.)
- Georges St-Pierre was originally scheduled to defend his Welterweight Championship against Nick Diaz in the main event. However, on December 7, 2011, it was revealed St-Pierre had suffered an ACL injury that forced him to withdraw from the bout. Diaz will now face Carlos Condit with the winner receiving an interim title belt. Condit's original opponent, Josh Koscheck, is now expected to face Mike Pierce at this event.
- Erik Koch was scheduled to face Dustin Poirier at the event, but pulled out of the bout citing an injury and was replaced by Ricardo Lamas. However, Lamas also pulled out of the bout due to injury and was replaced by promotional newcomer Max Holloway.
- Amir Sadollah was expected to face Jorge Lopez at the event, but was forced out of the bout with an injury and replaced by Matt Riddle. Lopez was also forced out of the bout and replaced by promtional newcomer Henry Martinez.
- UFC Primetime will return to promote the main event.
- Mike Stumpf was expected to face Justin Edwards at the event, but was forced out of the bout with an injury and replaced by Stephen Thompson. Edwards himself was forced out of the bout and Daniel Stittgen will step in to fight Thompson.
Rekrul is a newb
Last edit: 04/02/2012 02:46
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Stim_Abuser United States. Jan 30 2012 23:46. Posts 7499
Sick card on paper.
I think Nick Diaz vs Condit is right up there in terms of anticipation of a great fight as Hendo vs Shogun. Which means I think its gonna be a GOAT fight. At least looking like a lock for FOTY. Everyone thinks its going to be similar to Nate vs Cerrone, but Condit is way, way better than Cerrone and different in he uses his wrestling better, he's a better finisher with strikers, and he's better at following a game plan. I know Nick is a lot better than Nate, but Condit is simply a different fighter than Cerrone.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
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PuertoRican United States. Jan 31 2012 01:07. Posts 13257
Condit > Diaz (I saw Condit as the #1 contender b4 and after Diaz arrived in the UFC.)
Nelson > Werdum (Nelson wont fall into Werdum's game of trying to go to the ground, Werdum cant KO/TKO Nelson even though his striking has improved.)
Koscheck > Pierce (Both have similar styles, but Pierce's 2 losses in the UFC came from wrestlers Fitch/Hendricks.)
Barao > Jorgensen (Barao has more experience+finishes under his belt, Jorgensen has some nice wins under his belt but he wont finish or win a decision against Barao.)
Herman > Starks (I've never seen Starks fight, but I like Herman as a gatekeeper in the MW division.)
Poirier > Holloway (Holloway is the 3rd opponent for Poirier after 2 others were injured.)
Martinez > Riddle (Riddle sucks, 1 more loss and he's out.)
Caceres > Figueroa (If Caceres doesn't get KO`ed early, he can submit Figueroa in round 2 I think.)
Brown > Cope (I like Cope, and Brown just sucks, but Brown has better striking and Cope probably doesn't have the skills to submit anyone unless he learned since his last TKO loss.)
Stittgen vs. Thompson (dunno)
Natal vs. Kuiper (dunno)
Jhyun88 United States. Jan 31 2012 05:29. Posts 1383
I'd pay good money to see Diaz choke out GSP. More than likely he gets laid on for 5 rounds though. Hope Diaz ships this fight then talks a lot of shit about GSP so GSP decides to be more aggro when they fight.
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RaiNKhAN United States. Jan 31 2012 06:37. Posts 4080
i'd like to see them both against GSP. now it's just sad that one has to wait
redsnuff: bets all in with bad preflop hand and tell me to learn poker redsnuff: senceless
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NMcNasty United States. Jan 31 2012 12:11. Posts 2041
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
Yep, want Diaz to lose, but then again I want him to lose to GSP more. This is a win win situation.
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JonnyCosMo United States. Jan 31 2012 15:01. Posts 7292
I like Nick Diaz in this fight... just not at the line.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
I really want to see Diaz vs GSP and I think Diaz has more of a chance to fuck GSP up then almost any other welterweight.
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iakim322 United States. Jan 31 2012 16:05. Posts 1335
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz.
The line on this fight initially came out right around even at -115 or so. Now the public is riding Nick so hard it's all the way up to almost 2:1. Pretty big Diaz fan but even I can't justify that against someone so live like Condit. Feel like it should be at -130 or -140 for Diaz at most.
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz.
Layed = Lay'n'prayed out.
At least in my mind.
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K40Cheddar United States. Jan 31 2012 16:52. Posts 2202
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz.
I'd LOVE to watch GSP lay and pray on his ass for 25 minutes. Nick Diaz is a disgrace to humanity. The dude has absolutely no social skills, gives little to no respect against anyone he fights, is completely delusional about reality (GSP got hurt on purpose not to fight him, give me a break), and is overly cocky to the point of sound like a ridiculous asshole. GSP even said himself that Nick Diaz is the worst human being he's ever seen and I agree with that statement. Sure I respect his standup rape skills. He made BJ Penn and ever other fighter he faced look like a chump. Obviously he's a great fighter but my issue is with his personality. In my opinion his is a disgrace and a terrible role model for the UFC. Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents.
GG
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iakim322 United States. Jan 31 2012 17:10. Posts 1335
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz.
I'd LOVE to watch GSP lay and pray on his ass for 25 minutes. Nick Diaz is a disgrace to humanity. The dude has absolutely no social skills, gives little to no respect against anyone he fights, is completely delusional about reality (GSP got hurt on purpose not to fight him, give me a break), and is overly cocky to the point of sound like a ridiculous asshole. GSP even said himself that Nick Diaz is the worst human being he's ever seen and I agree with that statement. Sure I respect his standup rape skills. He made BJ Penn and ever other fighter he faced look like a chump. Obviously he's a great fighter but my issue is with his personality. In my opinion his is a disgrace and a terrible role model for the UFC. Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents.
Actually he shows a ton of respect to people he fights. Just not in the pre-fight build up because he's riling himself to hate the guy in front of him so he can fight his best and well...it's a fight. He didn't even want to sign to fight Penn at first just because they were training partners for a short time a long time ago. Penn was the one who signed first. Then because they signed to fight, Diaz went into his I don't give a F about anyone until the fight's over mode. And he was obviously trolling on the GSP injury comment. He even said so himself in a later interview. As if you haven't seen something like that before between fighters?
So anyways,
First one is him beating the shit out of Frank Shamrock and immediately helping him back to his feet after it's called off and raising Frank's arm in the air because he respected Shamrock in the old days. It's at around 6:30 minute mark.
Second one is him having a respectful conversation with Paul Daley who returns the respect right after their fight.
He certainly doesn't have many social skills. Even his trainer thinks he has some social disorder. And his whiny post fight interviews about not getting enough respect are ludicrous. But you sir are making shit up about him being some ridiculous non thinking asshole with no respect for anyone from an ignorant point of view by just looking at pre-fight hype shit talk. Without even taking any effort to really find out.
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iakim322 United States. Jan 31 2012 17:28. Posts 1335
None of this is to say Nick isn't f'ing stupid and completely nuts a lot of the times btw. Because...well he is. It's just not two dimensional is my point.
On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote:
FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP.
More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz.
I'd LOVE to watch GSP lay and pray on his ass for 25 minutes. Nick Diaz is a disgrace to humanity. The dude has absolutely no social skills, gives little to no respect against anyone he fights, is completely delusional about reality (GSP got hurt on purpose not to fight him, give me a break), and is overly cocky to the point of sound like a ridiculous asshole. GSP even said himself that Nick Diaz is the worst human being he's ever seen and I agree with that statement. Sure I respect his standup rape skills. He made BJ Penn and ever other fighter he faced look like a chump. Obviously he's a great fighter but my issue is with his personality. In my opinion his is a disgrace and a terrible role model for the UFC. Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents.
WTF
way to judge over a person u dont even know in real life ....
Nick Diaz is a tremendous Fighter !
Fighting is his job. Fighting is what he is good at.
He hasnt signed up for taking a career as being a role model for children in the first place...
He may be stupid he may be bad at social skills ...
Nevertheless a lot of that shit about him is simply made up prefight trash talk
Calling him a disgrace to humanity and a ridiculous asshole just by believing some prefight trash talk shit makes u an asshole,too
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup"
he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round.
he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.
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Stim_Abuser United States. Jan 31 2012 20:11. Posts 7499
On January 31 2012 18:42 whamm! wrote:
boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup"
he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round.
he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.
Well not really.
Sure Nick does have really atrocious footwork and head movement, but several successful boxers throughout history have too.
Margarito is pretty successful and he pretty much fights exactly like Diaz. Even if someone has shit footwork and head movement they can make up for it with a granite chin, a crazy pace and high punching volume.
So while his style isn't very technical, it's still pretty effective with his attributes. In MMA and in Boxing.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
I still have to see him up against a very decent striker who can likewise take chances and punches before I start believing in his striking. His sick jujitsu, cardio and chin I have to agree super enhance his striking effectiveness by a ton.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Jan 31 2012 23:02. Posts 1525
KOSCHECK!!!
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Stim_Abuser United States. Jan 31 2012 23:20. Posts 7499
On January 31 2012 21:59 whamm! wrote:
I still have to see him up against a very decent striker who can likewise take chances and punches before I start believing in his striking. His sick jujitsu, cardio and chin I have to agree super enhance his striking effectiveness by a ton.
Possibly.
That said Paul Daley is definitely a pretty damn good striker. One of the very best at 170 in MMA for sure.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
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PuertoRican United States. Jan 31 2012 23:38. Posts 13257
I agree with whamm!.
Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them.
Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years:
- Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.)
- Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.)
- KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.)
- Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.)
- Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.)
- BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.)
Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5).
----------
Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt.
I think Nick is super awesome lol, so what if he's not got some sick vocabulary, linguistics or is articulate, he's a genius in my eyes, a different kind of genius. And the gsp thingy LOL, it's more like, one of the first time I've seen gsp act out of character and without his usual high integrity and character.
Whenever 2 awesome people fight, I just try and not pick sides, it makes it x10 as fun, + I know that we as humans always latch on to a side, and it makes me feel all awesome and unique. Then whoever has the best heart, I hope win xD
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 01 2012 05:38. Posts 7292
On January 31 2012 22:38 PuertoRican wrote:
I agree with whamm!.
Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them.
Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years:
- Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.)
- Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.)
- KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.)
- Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.)
- Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.)
- BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.)
Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5).
----------
Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt.
Pretty dumb simplification of his opponents if you ask me. You failed to mention how dominate he has looked in his recent bouts. When did Daley become just an OK striker? How about Penn? It's not like Diaz used any of his size to muscle him around, he basically beat Penn in his own game. Carlos is a good match-up for Diaz, whereas GSP is absolutely the nut worst for him.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
Last edit: 01/02/2012 05:42
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 01 2012 07:50. Posts 1525
bring back the late 90's/early 2000 mma! not as technical and not as skilled as today but they were so good to watch.
I think Nick Diaz gets a lot of hate he doesnt deserve ...
He knocked out Robbie Lawler (dont say me robbie doesnt know how to strike in MMA)
he beat Fierball Kid Gomi when Gomi was 27-3 and considerd TOP3 of his weight class !
He crushed through Scott Smith in a stand up war (Scott smith may not be the best but he sure knows how to strike)
He beat Paul Daley in a standup war ! (plz stop saying Daley has medium striking ... he is a fucking standup beast(go through the list of Good standup guys he knocked out !) and his only downfall is that he has no BJJ at all)
He beat Cyborg in a stand up war (allthough he submitted him he still dominated the standup)
he turned BJ Penn into a punching bag (BJ has extremly good MMA Boxing)
Nick Diaz is 13-1 since 2007 and had a bunch of impressive dominating performances (his only loss to KJ Noons whom he won in the rematch)
Those are the facts
If u arent impressed by what he did as a fighter so far then u cant be helped
It is true that he hasnt faceed the very TOP 5 of the 170 Division yet. (GSP, Koscheck,Ellenberger,Jon Fitch and Condit)
However he starts with Condit now and we will see
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
Last edit: 01/02/2012 09:12
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iakim322 United States. Feb 01 2012 13:26. Posts 1335
On January 31 2012 18:42 whamm! wrote:
boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup"
he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round.
he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.
I was a boxing fan way before MMA and still probably am more of a boxing fan even though the business itself sucks dick. And really now...who the hell in MMA are you talking about is gonna 'really throw punches' and ktfo Nick in 1 round? Blind hate is laughable. He doesn't have the best boxing technique (who in MMA really does?) but he uses his range extremely well for a standup MMA fighter...has a rock solid chin...knows he does...and keeps on an ultra intense pace for every minute because he also has better cardio than almost anyone. He pushed Daley, a huge puncher, for almost every second of the round in their fight...got dropped by a big counter once and recovered like he almost always does.
He also regularly spars in just boxing to get better at it with Andre Ward around the bay area. The undisputed super middleweight (168 lbs in boxing) champ. I don't think Andre would give a shit about getting in some boxing work with an mma fighter if Nick wasn't giving him at least some pressure/good work.
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iakim322 United States. Feb 01 2012 13:30. Posts 1335
And yeah all this shit about diminishing Paul Daley's power in standup is just some hating to discredit both or something. Daley has no BJJ. No takedown defense. Or really anything on the ground. He's just been able to knock the shit out of some people including borderline elite's like Martin Kampmann. Nick has really good submissions. All he would have had to do was get the Daley fight to the ground and it'd be over. Yet he stood up with him and walked a monster puncher with no ground game down for 5 whole minutes instead
I think the issues with Nick isn't that he's actually a bad human being, it's more that he basically doesn't give a fuck. He's there to fight, he talks a bit of smack and obviously he is fairly rude but when you listen to him he actually sounds fairly reasonable for the most part.
Tbh I think a lot of the crap the last months has been mostly promotion-related.
Also, he's a very, very good striker by MMA standards and his BJJ is probably on pair with the best in the division if not the very best: I see GSP, Shields, Rocha and maybe Penn giving him a run for his money on the ground but except for Rocha they're mostly top position grappers as far as I can tell so I'd guess that Nicks guard might be the best in the division.
While he did come up short against wrestlers earlier in his carrier I don't see anything with his style that say he can't beat the crap out of them, especially not in a 5 rounder. If he actually only gets to fight 5 rounders from now on I don't see anyone except GSP have more then ~30% to beat him.
Andre Ward would spar with me if I paid him too, don't tell me Ward is doing the sparring for some practice? Why the hell would he do it with a guy who clearly hasn't had pro boxing credentials (maybe he's friends or gets paid for sure). I dont hate Diaz and I want him to win but if anything, I hate MMA's hype machine and it makes me feel stupid each time I get sucked into it. People are already talking like he's champ (like with what happened to Sonnen) when he clearly has not faced top 5 in the UFC. Try to objectively watch him fight and tell me he "boxes" really well, he keeps his hands down all the time and peppers opponents non stop since he doesnt tire and has a good chin plus excellent on his back, unorthodox but effective for MMA yes, "sick standup"? I have to disagree.
Like I said, the condit fight will change my opinion on him. Till then he's more strikerfoce than UFC to me.
Last edit: 01/02/2012 22:27
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 01 2012 22:40. Posts 13257
On January 31 2012 22:38 PuertoRican wrote:
I agree with whamm!.
Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them.
Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years:
- Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.)
- Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.)
- KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.)
- Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.)
- Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.)
- BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.)
Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5).
----------
Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt.
Pretty dumb simplification of his opponents if you ask me. You failed to mention how dominate he has looked in his recent bouts. When did Daley become just an OK striker? How about Penn? It's not like Diaz used any of his size to muscle him around, he basically beat Penn in his own game. Carlos is a good match-up for Diaz, whereas GSP is absolutely the nut worst for him.
Daley's power has made people think his striking is something better than it is, in terms of technique. Nick Diaz has better technique than Daley with his hands, but Daley has more power.
Diaz did beat Daley in his own game, but Daley couldn't keep up with a someone who is good with his hands+hands a lot of cardio, Daley then gassed out. Yes, Diaz did land a lot of shots, but it was Daley's gas tank that couldn't hold up. Other people in recent years have been able to go 3-5 rounds against Diaz, in terms of cardio.
And yes, Diaz did beat Penn in his own game too, which seemed to be stand and bang followed by gassing out and getting whooped on.
I already think Diaz has skill, but the way he fights against Condit will let me know how he actually does vs. a well rounded fighter in the top of the WW division.
Rekrul is a newb
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 01 2012 23:07. Posts 13257
On February 01 2012 08:10 PplusAD wrote:
I think Nick Diaz gets a lot of hate he doesnt deserve ...
He knocked out Robbie Lawler (dont say me robbie doesnt know how to strike in MMA)
he beat Fierball Kid Gomi when Gomi was 27-3 and considerd TOP3 of his weight class !
He crushed through Scott Smith in a stand up war (Scott smith may not be the best but he sure knows how to strike)
He beat Paul Daley in a standup war ! (plz stop saying Daley has medium striking ... he is a fucking standup beast(go through the list of Good standup guys he knocked out !) and his only downfall is that he has no BJJ at all)
He beat Cyborg in a stand up war (allthough he submitted him he still dominated the standup)
he turned BJ Penn into a punching bag (BJ has extremly good MMA Boxing)
Nick Diaz is 13-1 since 2007 and had a bunch of impressive dominating performances (his only loss to KJ Noons whom he won in the rematch)
Those are the facts
If u arent impressed by what he did as a fighter so far then u cant be helped
It is true that he hasnt faceed the very TOP 5 of the 170 Division yet. (GSP, Koscheck,Ellenberger,Jon Fitch and Condit)
However he starts with Condit now and we will see
- Yes, he did KO Robbie Lawler, which people always bring up. That fight happened 7 years and 10 months ago.
- I don't like to hate on Japanese fighters that much, but they're records are usually padded with a lot of wins vs. various Japanese who are usually terrible vs. Western fighters. I didn't see the Diaz/Gomi fight, so I wont comment on it. I just look at the foreigners who compete in Japanese events and the Japanese that come over to the UFC and compete plus the massive Draws they always carry with them, and it up in my head. The only Japanese fighter who seems to still be considered top 5 in any weight class is Shinya Aoki, who fought only 2 times outside of Japan which were a loss to Gilbert Melendez and an easy submission vs. journeyman Lyle Beerbohm who isn't fighting under any league/company right now.
- Scott Smith's striking is overrated as well. I still take his side in recent fights but he usually loses. He's on a 3 loss streak and is 1-4 in his last 5, and that 1 win was due to Cung Le gassing out from doing too many round house kicks in a fight he was dominating. Cung beat him in the rematch 6 months later via strikes.
- Daley has power, not great technique. He can KO a bunch of mid-tier fighters, but that wont make him a beast in striking. The only guys he fought rated in the top 10 were Jake Shields, Josh Koscheck, and Nick Diaz (He lost to all 3 of them). His best win vs. a striker was against Martin Kampmann via TKO. I didn't see that fight so I wont comment on it. As soon as Daley gets back to the UFC, he'll do some damage since he has been working a lot on his TDD and already started showing it in his last 2 fights. If Daley can get faster with his punches and kicks, he'll be sick, along with his TDD.
- Cyborg is a brawler and Diaz used technique + cardio + hard chin to win that fight. Cyborg has an 18-15 record, 9 of those losses were via TKO. He's on a 2 loss streak, 2-3 in his last 5, 4-6 in his last 10.
- BJ Penn is still good and has skill, but Penn is known for having bad cardio, which is why he lost the fight against Diaz. Penn was doing good until he started gassing, then turned into a punching bag and received "the worst beating he ever took by any fighter", as stated by Dana White.
- And yes, he does have a 13-1 record since 2007, and I think that 1 loss was from a cut that stopped the fight cuz he was bleeding too much or something, so he probably would have won that first fight too. I'm not saying Diaz sucks and doesn't have skill, he just hasn't faced anyone in recent years who's a well rounded top fighter.
I do think that Diaz vs. Condit will the hardest match that either of these guys will have had so far, and it will probably be a top 10 fight of 2012.
Rekrul is a newb
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 02 2012 00:22. Posts 7292
If you give me $1 for everyday Paul Daley is not in the UFC for the rest of my life, I'll give you $2,000 for when he gets back in the UFC.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
I do think that Diaz vs. Condit will the hardest match that either of these guys will have had so far, and it will probably be a top 10 fight of 2012.
I agree with that.
Still thinking of putting a bit of money on Diaz but I don't know if the odds are right.
If I was going to bet on this card, I'd gamble some on Riddle vs. Martinez. Riddle is -355 at 5dimes.
I've never seen Martinez fight, but he's coming in with an 8-1 record (2 TKO's, 4 subs, 2 decisions), trains at Jackson's gym (a lot of top people to train with).
Riddle is 5-3, currently on a 2 loss streak and will be cut if he loses this fight, and I don't think he's UFC caliber.
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Werdum is favored over Nelson by 5dimes at -150. Maybe it's me, but I don't see how Werdum can win this fight.
Nelson is stronger, has better hands, hard head, good balance, usually pushes forward in his fights and/or stays busy, and has a black belt in BJJ so he can defend himself on the ground.
Werdum cant KO Nelson, I doubt he can get him to the ground. He's one of the best BJJ guys in the UFC but he's shown to trick/trap people into taking him down, I don't remember him pulling off good take downs in recent fights.
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Nick Diaz is -200 at 5dimes. I assume, not really sure, but I'd guess the Diaz hype train will grow within the next couple of days and Diaz will be a bigger favorite.
Rekrul is a newb
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Stim_Abuser United States. Feb 02 2012 02:09. Posts 7499
The thing with just guessing on the fighter you've never seen is...
line makers are pretty good at their job, and they probably have seen a lot of martinez fights unlike us.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
diaz wouldnt stand a chance against kos/fitch/gsp in anything under 99 round fights. the guy just cant stop a takedown to save his life and has been blessed with opponents that have had no submission defense at all in his past 10 fights.
hes lucky condit isnt much of a wrestler. he still can probably take diaz down a bunch if he wants to, and im sure he will if the standup isnt going his way. diaz is still a very incomplete fighter. hes extremely susceptible to legkicks and wrestling, and i suspect carlos will try to do that to win this fight. as for stopping diaz, you basically just need to land a huge shot and flurry fast, otherwise the guy recovers. its definitely possible though with carlos power in all of his limbs.
id set the line at close to a pickem though. diaz accumulating damage and stopping carlos over 5 rounds is the most likely outcome, but i think carlos will find a way to win a decent amount of the time and cannot be counted out.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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Stim_Abuser United States. Feb 02 2012 18:42. Posts 7499
Interim Welterweight Championship bout: Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit
This is really a fight where I have no idea what will happen. I think Condit is a better striker & wrestler than Nick and am confident he'll win the first couple rounds. My biggest concern is how Carlos cardio will do against Nicks. Going with Condit because he's my favorite WW, and awesome as ****. "I want the ref to pull me off you to save your life" is probably the most awesome MMA quote ever.
Heavyweight bout: Roy Nelson vs. Fabricio Werdum
Again its really too close to call, but I'll go with Werdum.
Welterweight bout: Josh Koscheck vs. Mike Pierce
Kos via being better everywhere, but he might get caught by a Pierce left hook.
Bantamweight bout: Renan Barão vs. Scott Jorgensen
Only seen one Barao fight, and it was him crushing Pickett. He looked absolutely amazing, and I hope he wins because Cruz badly needs another challenger.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
Yea won a bit betting against Riddle in the past. Apparently the guy crumbles a lot under pressure (I heard that from someone who used to train a bit with him back in the day).
Don't think Diaz wrestling is horrible, it's just not top notch.
Cyborg isn't very good but he is a BJJ blackbelt who has only been subbed once before and Nick made him look like an utter beginner.
Diaz really had a very fortunate line of opponents in his last few fights, i really think he gets wrestlefucked by any elite wrestler at 170.
Rooting for Condit.
Werdum probably takes this.
Kos, Barao.
Poker chobo.
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 02 2012 22:28. Posts 13257
----------
At you guys picking Werdum over Nelson. I'm wondering in what areas do you see Werdum superior to Nelson, and in what way do you think Werdum would beat Nelson.
I personally cant see any area where Werdum is superior to Nelson except for the BJJ game. Nelson is a black belt in BJJ, but I know Werdum's BJJ is better. If they got to the ground and Werdum was on top, I think Nelson could defend himself there, but I just don't see it going to the ground in the first place.
Actually i like Roy on this one, he has the upper hand in the stand up and its going to be hard for Werdum to take him down.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 03 2012 12:17. Posts 13829
I need to see some of condit's fights cuz it sounds to me like you guys are just impressed by how handsome he is, nick is pretty good in the ring.
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morph1 Sierra Leone. Feb 03 2012 12:31. Posts 2352
On February 03 2012 07:15 Baalim wrote:
Actually i like Roy on this one, he has the upper hand in the stand up and its going to be hard for Werdum to take him down.
this
solid standup, hard to take down and he is not clueless in bjj
On February 03 2012 07:15 Baalim wrote:
Actually i like Roy on this one, he has the upper hand in the stand up and its going to be hard for Werdum to take him down.
this
solid standup, hard to take down and he is not clueless in bjj
roy gonna win, too much ko power and "not clueless" = legit black belt in bjj
redsnuff: bets all in with bad preflop hand and tell me to learn poker redsnuff: senceless
On February 03 2012 11:17 Night2o1 wrote:
I need to see some of condit's fights cuz it sounds to me like you guys are just impressed by how handsome he is, nick is pretty good in the ring.
CAn't remember which fight, but several years ago I saw him in one fight, and he fought like an absolute warrior.
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 03 2012 14:33. Posts 13257
I'll be getting my haircut during that time, but I'll post the full weigh-in videos later today once it's uploaded.
If Dana sticks to his word, there should be a 2nd video blog sometime today.
I was listening to an MMA show yesterday, and the media/odds makers were all picking Clifford Starks over Ed Herman with the current line. Maybe you guys should put a little money on it.
Rekrul is a newb
Last edit: 03/02/2012 14:38
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 03 2012 19:15. Posts 1383
Diaz, Nelson, Kos, Barao, Herman
I actually see Diaz v Condit fight being very similar to Little Diaz vs Cowboy fight.
Roy vs Werdum is probably a standup fight. I think there's a good chance that Roy clips him on the chin.
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 03 2012 20:58. Posts 7292
If you want Carlos to win this fight, say it with me: Leg Kicks. He needs to go Forrest Griffin / Jose Aldo ape shit on Diaz's legs right from the get go. If not, Diaz gonna rape his face with punches.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 03 2012 22:07. Posts 13257
I actually see Diaz v Condit fight being very similar to Little Diaz vs Cowboy fight.
...
Interesting thought.
Havent really thought about it this way but if u look closely its almost frightening how similar the circumtsances are right now compared to what they were in the Diaz-Cerrone fight.
basically Nick Diaz is Nate Diaz + 10% Skill in every area
and Carlos Condit kinda is similar to Donald Cerrone a very good athletic striker who also has decent groundgame but for the most part likes to stand and kick+ bang (not even sure if better skillwise)
Nate Diaz was comming of impressive wins but still everybody said he kinda inst really that good . Same with Nick Diaz currently
Cerrone was comming of 4-0 impressive UFC run same as Condit is comming of 4 impressive UFC wins in a row now
if u think about it the conditions are very very similar
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
I dont think Werdum vs Nelson is going to be a stand up fight, Nelson has a sick chin and endurance, Werdum is going to try to take him down and if he manages to do that Nelsons BJJ blackbelt will be meaningless, i dont remember how well Nelson defends takedown against the cage.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
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iakim322 United States. Feb 04 2012 00:56. Posts 1335
On February 02 2012 01:26 Daut wrote:
diaz wouldnt stand a chance against kos/fitch/gsp in anything under 99 round fights. the guy just cant stop a takedown to save his life and has been blessed with opponents that have had no submission defense at all in his past 10 fights.
hes lucky condit isnt much of a wrestler. he still can probably take diaz down a bunch if he wants to, and im sure he will if the standup isnt going his way. diaz is still a very incomplete fighter. hes extremely susceptible to legkicks and wrestling, and i suspect carlos will try to do that to win this fight. as for stopping diaz, you basically just need to land a huge shot and flurry fast, otherwise the guy recovers. its definitely possible though with carlos power in all of his limbs.
id set the line at close to a pickem though. diaz accumulating damage and stopping carlos over 5 rounds is the most likely outcome, but i think carlos will find a way to win a decent amount of the time and cannot be counted out.
He definitely is really susceptible to leg kicks. Even Santos, husband of the female animal champion cyborg, had early success from simply using leg kicks from the get go before getting knocked around late in the round and getting submitted in the second. And Santos is a decent fighter but certainly not top tier. Don't necessarily agree he's just totally vulnerable to wrestling though. Sure he can't stop takedowns well but he seems to take minimal damage when he does and his submission skills just aren't shown enough because of who he is. He just wants to stand and trade.
Oh and yea if there was anyone in the welterweight division that was going to potentially smash through Diaz's solid chin/recovery skills, I'd say it's Condit too.
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iakim322 United States. Feb 04 2012 01:00. Posts 1335
The real question imo is how well Diaz defends against knees and elbows from around the clinch. Because well...Condits' are vicious.
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 04 2012 01:20. Posts 13257
The good thing about Diaz is that he's not a 1 punch KO artist, so Condit doesn't have to worry about that, he just needs to keep moving and stay busy or Diaz will overwhelm him.
As for comparing Condit to Cerrone, I wouldn't. Cerrone has good skill, but he acts like a cowboy in and outside the ring and is there to fight with his fists. He wants to prove he's manly and beat all of his opponents with his superior striking. Too bad Cerrone mainly boxed vs. Nate, which was a mistake.
Condit is a smarter fighter than Cerrone and has more tools than both Diaz and Cerrone, he just needs to play smart like he usually does and use them all, instead of falling into Diaz's game.
Well i can relate to all the guys who simply get overwhelmed by Diaz pace.
I have sparred with some high regional class Boxers in my town and its just so stressfull.
They give u no time to breathe
No matter what u do they always stand right in front of u and punch. Nonstop
The normal process in a standup exchange is that the person who gets hit either gets Koed or backs up.
So when u are under preassure u cover up under your double guard till u find a timing hole and than make a counterstrike.
usually u either hit -> now its you on the offence who can be agressive
or u miss and have to do it again.
VS Nick Diaz its different though
There will rain punches down on you no matter if u hit him back or not.
It just never stopps
And at one point your brain goes crazy since u just dont know wtf is happening and how he can throw 400 punches at u without ever taking a break
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
Last edit: 04/02/2012 12:02
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 04 2012 17:40. Posts 13829
Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers?
I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens?
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 04 2012 18:36. Posts 1383
Damn... Dana was giving away tickets @ the Mandalay and I live like 10 minutes away from there. I feel stupid for not going.
On February 04 2012 16:40 Night2o1 wrote:
Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers?
I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens?
BJJ is nice and all.
usually good wrestling owns BJJ hell of a lot.
BJJ guy just lies on back and cant do shit even when he has 2-3 black belts
Wrestler lies on TOP and wins a boring descision
ofc there are exceptions where the BJJ somehow manages to own the wrestler
However its the other way round 5 of 6 times.
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
On February 04 2012 16:40 Night2o1 wrote:
Why doesn't nick's BJJ blackbelt seem to count for anything on the ground in your guy's analysis of how he's vulnerable to wrestlers?
I haven't seen many fights of MMA-BJJ vs Wrestlers so I just rly don't know.. what happens?
BJJ is nice and all.
usually good wrestling owns BJJ hell of a lot.
BJJ guy just lies on back and cant do shit even when he has 2-3 black belts
Wrestler lies on TOP and wins a boring descision
ofc there are exceptions where the BJJ somehow manages to own the wrestler
However its the other way round 5 of 6 times.
well, the wrestlers are well versed in BJJ themselves, at least the ones who know how to control legit black belts whilst on top.
that said very few of the ufc fighters are legitimate high level bjj guys, having a black belt is a mark of dedication and understanding. anyone can get a black belt, however not everyone can even qualify for adcc, much less make any significant showing.
also if you stop training bjj to train something else your bjj instincts become lessened which then makes you all the more susceptible to being wrestlefucked.
edit:
On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote:
most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top
i don't think you've heard of eddie bravo, or jeff glover. ( in regards to half guard/bottom subs)
also most adcc matches aren't half guard wars, and a lot of the higher level matches actually end up being 70% standing wars ( especially in higher weight classes).
On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote:
most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top
I agree
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
On February 04 2012 18:21 Daut wrote:
most jiu jitsu competitions, one guy just pulls half guard and the rest of the match is contested there. rarely do you see extended wrestling/judo matches in BJJ so those guys are just pretty bad at offensive takedowns, and too willing to fight off their backs. but avoiding subs is very easy on top without a gi. as long as you can stay on top and not get subbed you have the advantage. you can seriously take a top 5 college wrestler, teach him like 12 months of BJJ and he probably wouldnt get subbed by nick diaz if he was on top
I agree
only because nick has developed his bjj to mostly control, or get up so he can do his striking which is his forte. Even then i think pure bjj match 5 minutes its probably 60/40 wrestler if he starts on top.
i really hate how u get no adds in PPV now and instead that ultra annoying "UFC will be back shortly" screen for 2 minutes after and before every fight (at least thats how it is in case u watch from germany)
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
Last edit: 04/02/2012 20:52
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:13. Posts 13829
lol bruce "nutcracker" leeroy
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NMcNasty United States. Feb 04 2012 21:14. Posts 2041
Guy thinks its soccer.
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f1shcake United States. Feb 04 2012 21:15. Posts 287
On February 04 2012 20:13 Night2o1 wrote:
lol bruce "nutcracker" leeroy
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:17. Posts 13829
"if you were playing a video game right now, and looking at eddi fig's power bar right now, it would be significantly weakened"
-joe rogan
Last edit: 04/02/2012 21:17
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f1shcake United States. Feb 04 2012 21:17. Posts 287
wow 2 pt deduction....he gotta finish it now
edit: i take that back he prob still win 3 rounds...getting kicked in the nuts sucks and this guys ground game sucks
On February 04 2012 19:52 PplusAD wrote:
i really hate how u get no adds in PPV now and instead that ultra annoying "UFC will be back shortly" screen for 2 minutes after and before every fight (at least thats how it is in case u watch from germany)
wow that sucks, you'd think they would at least provide rogan bantering
terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:48. Posts 13829
meh was expected
he is just 23, and learned a life lesson: can't be kicking folks in the nuts just for being shorter than you
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f1shcake United States. Feb 04 2012 21:54. Posts 287
didn't see that prelim fight, good thing they replayed it. Sick karate KO
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:57. Posts 1383
I have a really hectic betting card for this lol.
Figueroa -120, 5 units W
Nelson KO of the night +950, 0.5 units
2 Team Parlays:
1) Rashad Evans (-190) W + Nick Diaz (-175). 5 units to win 7 units
2) Stephen Thompson (-310) W + Jake Ellenberger (-280). 5 units to win 4 units
3) Josh Koscheck (-240) + Renen Barao (-240). 6 units to win 6 units.
4 Team Parlay:
Diaz/Condit starts round 2 -675 + Nelson/Werdum starts round 2 -357 + Barao/Jorgensen starts round 2 -482 + Not Cope inside distance -1075 W. 5.5 units to win 5.1
7 Team Parlay : lottery of the day
Ed Herman/Clifford Starks Over 1½ -155 + Rafael Natal/Michael Kuiper Over 1½ -130 W + Diaz/Condit starts round 2 -675 + Not Nelson wins by submission -1780 + Not Jorgensen wins by submission -3500 + Not Caceres inside distance -318 W+ Brown wins inside distance -157 W 3 units to win 20.5 units
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:59. Posts 13829
ROFLMAO
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 04 2012 21:59. Posts 1383
lol wtf. Is Joe Rogan stoned? Dana was loling at him getting all excited there.
yea very pleasing performance by werdum, i'm surprised. Roy Nelson is awesome, I hope he stays around. Can't believe he got hit by that knee to the face and acted like it was nothing.
im a regular at nl5
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f1shcake United States. Feb 05 2012 00:09. Posts 287
yeah roy is great, awesome chin and heart. I'm glad to see he taking his training more serious and coming into these fights in better shape.
On February 04 2012 23:51 Raidern wrote:
I thought Diaz won 48-47. He won 1st, 2nd and 5th imo.
Run Carlos Run!
wtf was that shit?
He was still striking more than Diaz
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RaiNKhAN United States. Feb 05 2012 00:59. Posts 4080
lol @ ufc. rigged once again i don't see how every1 here thought condit won. only conclusion is you all bet on him. diaz 100% crushed him round 1 and 5, 2 and 3 are easy wins and ill give #4 to condit, thats 4-1 at worst. condit ran the entire fight and only had moments where he connected his hits in the clinch or random spinning elbows/few kicks. diaz pressed him the entire fight and landed several flurries/had him running the whole fight
The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet!
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 01:00. Posts 7292
On February 04 2012 23:56 NMcNasty wrote:
I had Diaz in 1st, Condit 3rd and 4th, other two I dunno :/
Was fine w/ decision.
You don't know who won the 5th round? your fucking blind -_-;;;
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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LikeASet United States. Feb 05 2012 01:00. Posts 2113
oh and harder shots, I don't know about that. Diaz clearly stopped exploding foward since the 3rd round after getting his legs kicked repeatedly. Diaz thinking he can just walk into a brawl 3rd 4th and 5th round zzzz
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 01:01. Posts 7292
Was pulling for Diaz so hard, but Condit's win was def well deserved
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
Well the descision was okayish if u score punches and kicks landed without taking anything else into consideration.
Condit did land ,more kicks and also more strikes.
However he never intended to finish Diaz in the first place.
His whole gameplan was based on winning by points from the beginning. (Yay Greg Jackson gameplan)
From the fight it became very clear that Diaz would have KOed him if the were boxing and Diaz also would have submitted him if they were on the ground.
So Diaz is the better fighter since whenever Condit would have decided to fight he would have gotten his ass whooped
However Condit is the faster runner and better point karate guy.
U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz)
Last edit: 05/02/2012 01:04
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f1shcake United States. Feb 05 2012 01:03. Posts 287
On February 04 2012 23:59 RaiNKhAN wrote:
lol @ ufc. rigged once again i don't see how every1 here thought condit won. only conclusion is you all bet on him. diaz 100% crushed him round 1 and 5, 2 and 3 are easy wins and ill give #4 to condit, thats 4-1 at worst. condit ran the entire fight and only had moments where he connected his hits in the clinch or random spinning elbows/few kicks. diaz pressed him the entire fight and landed several flurries/had him running the whole fight
that's why mma judging is so annoying. Some of them judge aggression some just look at stats of total strikes landed. Fucking arbitrary at times IMO. People said same shit about machida and his style since its so defensive and those wins he had by pts. Very close fight I had Diaz winning 1 and 5. Carlos winning the 4. 2 and 3 was pretty even, guess the judges weren't counting aggression today =/
On February 05 2012 00:00 LikeASet wrote:
oh and harder shots, I don't know about that. Diaz clearly stopped exploding foward since the 3rd round after getting his legs kicked repeatedly. Diaz thinking he can just walk into a brawl 3rd 4th and 5th round zzzz
This.
sick brazilian kicks - just need a little more snap to it though.
Last edit: 05/02/2012 01:10
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NMcNasty United States. Feb 05 2012 01:07. Posts 2041
On February 04 2012 23:56 NMcNasty wrote:
I had Diaz in 1st, Condit 3rd and 4th, other two I dunno :/
Was fine w/ decision.
You don't know who won the 5th round? your fucking blind -_-;;;
Condit was clearly winning till the takedown and I didn't see Diaz do much after.
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K40Cheddar United States. Feb 05 2012 01:10. Posts 2202
GTFO DIAZ
From a practical standpoint though it was pretty apparent Condit was connecting with way more shots than Diaz was. Even though Diaz would always be the one moving forward Condit would come up with some nice counter combinations against the wall and then move out of the trap. I'll pull up some detailed striking statistics if I can find any. Pretty sure Condit won due to sheer number of hits.
I would've loved to see Diaz fight Koscheck/Mcdonald/Shields. GSP would embarrass him for sure if he can't handle that kind of strict gameplan from Condit.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 01:27. Posts 1525
On February 04 2012 23:59 RaiNKhAN wrote:
lol @ ufc. rigged once again i don't see how every1 here thought condit won. only conclusion is you all bet on him. diaz 93% crushed him round 1 and 5, 2 and 3 are easy wins and ill give #4 to condit, thats 4-1 at worst. condit ran the entire fight and only had moments where he connected his hits in the clinch or random spinning elbows/few kicks. diaz pressed him the entire fight and landed several flurries/had him running the whole fight
lol really?
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 01:29. Posts 1525
On February 05 2012 00:24 whamm! wrote:
I would've loved to see Diaz fight Koscheck/Mcdonald/Shields. GSP would embarrass him for sure if he can't handle that kind of strict gameplan from Condit.
yes koscheck vs diaz would be good. i wanna see koscheck shit on diaz's face. he sucks.
He's always been saying he would switch to pro boxing. With his no fear brawl style I'm sure Cotto Margarito etc will welcome him with open arms.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 01:40. Posts 1525
On February 05 2012 00:38 whamm! wrote:
He's always been saying he would switch to pro boxing. With his no fear brawl style I'm sure Cotto Margarito etc will welcome him with open arms.
i wanna see pacquiao beat his face in just for being lame.
RaiNKhAN United States. Feb 05 2012 02:23. Posts 4080
should be renamed condit post-interview diaz is mad as a hornet right now. i hope he goes on a rampage and kills a lot of people and stays true to his anger. condit is soft like pau gasol
The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet!
lol before announcing the winner he already knew Diaz lost coz he threw the remote before kicking the TV down.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 04:42. Posts 1525
On February 05 2012 02:50 RaiNKhAN wrote:
i would do the same thing to the following ppl's faces:
cecil peoples, the ref, dana white, and howard
LOL
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K40Cheddar United States. Feb 05 2012 04:45. Posts 2202
If anyone cares according to the UFC website condit had 154 total hit strikes vs the 104 total hit strikes from diaz. Diaz had 1 takedown to condit's 0.
GG
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 05 2012 05:44. Posts 1383
That fight actually made me kinda sad. Carlos finished 26 out of 27 of his wins or something. I would've never guessed he would run away the entire fight and try to land couple small shots -> escape. It feels like he tried to "play the game" because there's so much on the line for him... He even said in the post conference that he was just doing what his coaches told him to do and avoided direct confrontations/stay in the pocket.
Nick is one of my favorite fighters because he always brings it. But during his win streak, he always fought people that were willing to fight back. The problem for him in the UFC is that he was probably going to lose to guys that will only try to "play the game" like GSP/Kos/Fitch and maybe even lesser wrestlers.
I guess this is where the argument that MMA is a sport and not an actual fight makes a lot of sense. Guys that are willing to play the game instead holds such a massive edge.
You're absolutely nuts if you actually believe Nick Diaz sucks. I'd comfortably take Nick Diaz over anyone in the division in a must-finish bouts or Pride rules with 10 minute rounds and judging determined by whoever got closer to actually finishing or showed willingness to finish.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 06:26. Posts 1525
diaz sucks cos he didn't adapt. all he did was being lame.
He doesn't suck, but he's in the wrong sport if he expects people to just brawl with him each time, hell even in boxing this happens. Maybe Condit felt he couldn't beat him in a brawl that's why he went for the "W" instead. Too much of a whiny, entitled fighter to earn my respect tbh.
Last edit: 05/02/2012 06:36
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 06:44. Posts 1525
^ yeah. when he was raising his arms and telling condit 'cmon' and following him at the end of each round, i was like cool, diaz is trying to rile condit up. but no, he was just being laaaaame.
just shows mentally he wasn't ready for the fight. any good fighter would've adapted and find a way to take condit's game plan apart.
hoped best man would win when it started, felt really neutral.
But felt wrong, I don't like how this is judged. Surely dominance, control, pushing forward counts a lot more than literally jogging/running, jumping away for 25 minutes.
I can relate to him being angry, felt like a steal. I hate when it's some angleshooting. I guess I'll go along with Condit winning the game, but nowhere near winning the fight.
Had diaz 1,2,3,5, and condit clearly had 4. But in mariushead, control, pushing forward, dominance count for 33%, so pretty clear win with my madeup rules lol.
isnt MMA about implementing your own gameplan and denying his? Carlos would be an idiot to get in a firefight with diaz. He outlanded nick by a wide margin and avoided nicks strikes. Not attempting to take the fight to the ground or change strategy was due to him believing he won the majority of rounds. If it aint broke dont fix it. Do you guys understand what the difference between going out on his shield vs diaz, maybe winning a fight of the night and making the fans kinda happy vs winning this fight is? let me break it down for you.
now that condit is champion, he gets a ppv cut. lets say its $1 per buy. so if his UFC career is 10 more fights, and the average show he is on does 350k buys, thats 3.5 million dollars he expects to make. whereas a fight of the night bonus would be 65k, he would maybe get a decent discretionary bonus of like 100k, would possibly get a rematch with diaz before gsp returned, but would have no assurance of getting anywhere near the kind of money he would by taking a proper gameplan to victory.
not to mention, who the fuck WANTS to get their ass kicked? YOU PLAY, TO WIN, THE GAME
and for those of you who had diaz winning because of moving forward, here is my basic scoring criteria for a fight. 67% damage, 33% control, thats it. control is much less important than damage, so hes giving up a small portion of the fight to win a bigger portion. actually i could argue condit controlled the distance of the fight and avoided a ton of nicks takedowns, so he controlled just as much of the fight as diaz walking at him.
condit clearly outstruck diaz and implemented a great gameplan to land a lot of strikes while avoiding taking damage from nick. he set a record for the # of legkicks landed in a fight and took less punches from diaz in 5 rounds than most take in 2. he should be applauded for using a great plan to beat the #2 170 in the world. instead hes attacked for it? i just dont get it man.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Just feels off, not sure I can explain with words, it's suppose to be a fight, 2 of the best fighters in the world, and when it's over, both of them have at least 50% strength left. Diaz did get out thought, and Condit felt a lot more clever, but still feels like it's kinda borderline. Like when people first started cutting weight, and some amateur kickboxer who can't fight very well, just started cutting weight addeind 30 pounds and just pushing ppl out the ring. I'll rewatch the fight when I'm thinking more clearly.
End of a fight should be more like Shogun vs Henderson. Still feel it's deserved that Condit won with the way MMA works, but hope they change the rules somewhat, you get warning for avoiding to fight so much. IF you just lay on a guy, you get talked to sick fast, and that one fight, the black judge, kept telling them to fight all the time. And in this fight he could run and "pretend" to be fighting when he was just doing a game plan, it's harder to see, more elusive, but something definitely not right.
I think Condit is a person I have a better liking to, and think he's fantastic, so don't feel it's some Diaz fascination.
If this was Flash vs Jaedong final, and they discovered a new exploit bug, and one of them was doing it and won the finals, i'd be dissapointed at the guy "exploiting".
Last edit: 05/02/2012 14:51
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 15:05. Posts 7292
What bugs me is that one of the judging criteria is "Octagon Control"...
How does that equate to a 49-46 score on anyone's scorecard wtf
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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JonnyCosMo United States. Feb 05 2012 15:08. Posts 7292
It's possible that over the course of 25 minutes, Diaz walked forward upwards of 1 mile.
Everyone needs to see that you are king of the castle - PoorUser
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 15:14. Posts 13829
On February 05 2012 11:07 Daut wrote:
isnt MMA about implementing your own gameplan and denying his? Carlos would be an idiot to get in a firefight with diaz. He outlanded nick by a wide margin and avoided nicks strikes. Not attempting to take the fight to the ground or change strategy was due to him believing he won the majority of rounds. If it aint broke dont fix it. Do you guys understand what the difference between going out on his shield vs diaz, maybe winning a fight of the night and making the fans kinda happy vs winning this fight is? let me break it down for you.
now that condit is champion, he gets a ppv cut. lets say its $1 per buy. so if his UFC career is 10 more fights, and the average show he is on does 350k buys, thats 3.5 million dollars he expects to make. whereas a fight of the night bonus would be 65k, he would maybe get a decent discretionary bonus of like 100k, would possibly get a rematch with diaz before gsp returned, but would have no assurance of getting anywhere near the kind of money he would by taking a proper gameplan to victory.
not to mention, who the fuck WANTS to get their ass kicked? YOU PLAY, TO WIN, THE GAME
and for those of you who had diaz winning because of moving forward, here is my basic scoring criteria for a fight. 67% damage, 33% control, thats it. control is much less important than damage, so hes giving up a small portion of the fight to win a bigger portion. actually i could argue condit controlled the distance of the fight and avoided a ton of nicks takedowns, so he controlled just as much of the fight as diaz walking at him.
condit clearly outstruck diaz and implemented a great gameplan to land a lot of strikes while avoiding taking damage from nick. he set a record for the # of legkicks landed in a fight and took less punches from diaz in 5 rounds than most take in 2. he should be applauded for using a great plan to beat the #2 170 in the world. instead hes attacked for it? i just dont get it man.
I basically agree, and I do agree that on judging criteria Condit won.
The problem is that the UFC (and the fans) want and need exciting fights -- game plans are fine and important -- but we would of literally had NO fight at all if Diaz wasn't pressing the action constantly. And yet, if Diaz had a gameplan that involved evasion and trying to score points on counters, like Condit, they would both of been reprimanded for their boring shitty fight by the UFC and the fans.
Diaz made the fight. Making a fight is part of the criteria for judging BECAUSE it is essential to the entertainment factor (talking about the Aggression & Octagon Control). Diaz earned 100% of the points in this regard, but it wasn't reflected at-fucking-all in the judging. 46-49 is a god damn insult and the fact that anyone could justify that as a 46-49 fight is a huge, huge double standard on the part of the UFC's judging criteria vs what the UFC wants out of its fighters.
I think this is a major part of why people (especially Diaz lol) are upset with this fight.
judging criteria, which includes aggression and octagon control, needs to be adhered to -- and maybe tweaked a bit if the current ruleset is going to cause the average fight to degenerate into a ring around the posie.
(46-49!!!!!!!!!!! twice! it isn't like Diaz was about to fall over dead from his injuries! legit submission attempts should count reasonably on the scoring as well since they often necessitate the relinquishment of dominant positions, and generate legit excitement/action.. I need to look up the exact judging criteria before I comment more)
Last edit: 05/02/2012 15:24
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NMcNasty United States. Feb 05 2012 15:53. Posts 2041
I don't count simply moving forward as either control or aggression. One fighter wanting to keep the fight moving and on the outside while the other is wanting an inside brawl is a common situation. A fighter shouldn't be punished for dictating where the fight occurs if that's what plays to his advantages. Condit really didn't look much different than Edgar or Dominic Cruz here.
if diaz was backing up condit would 100% have come forward with kicks/knees/elbows/punches. but diaz is diaz, he always does his best zombie impression in fights.
fightmetric had it 48-47 condit. rounds 3/5 are extremely close for them, 1/2 were clear victories for each guy and 4 was dominant for condit
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 16:36. Posts 13829
Edgar has gone in and engaged in the fights of his I've seen. Slipping in and out of range is different from constantly backpedalling and sprinting from the cage. Same with Cruz....
Yea I can buy some of the arguments (although anyone judging it 49-46 has to be a little bit weird) but this is the last time I buy a PPV including a Jackson "fighter" and I'll probably stop buying the although. Who the fuck cars about a fight if you can win it by going backwards and not actually trying to finish or throwing anything with bad intentions for 25 minutes?
I guess one or two of the head kicks that missed might have had some power, but other than that it just felt like Bisping had gotten a lot prettier, lost some of his power and all of his charisma.
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 05 2012 18:11. Posts 13829
This is what 4oz gloves can do to a sport. As the fighters get really good at striking, people get KTFO with increasing frequency and variance increases (happening now), fights get more technical since fighters basically fight for money/fame alone, except for people like Nick Diaz. It also destroys "storylines" the league has created to build up for superfights and such, it's like the WWE but having the variance and unpredicability of K-1.
Last edit: 05/02/2012 20:48
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 05 2012 21:13. Posts 13257
Sup guys, sorry I wasn't around yesterday, my friend called me at the last minute to see if I wanted to hang out, so we saw the fights at a local bar/restaurant.
- Going to a bar/restaurant to watch fights is overrated. The only difference is you get to see the fights on a massive TV, but I'm personally okay with watching them in my room on my 20+ inch flat screen.
- Dustin Poirier made me happy, I cant wait till he gets some better opponents. The guy he fought yesterday was a last minute replacement after 2 other guys he was supposed to fight got injured.
- Mike Pierce got robbed, Koscheck looked like an in shape bum.
- Bruce Leroy got robbed, but it's his fault for not controlling his kicks.
- Matt Riddle still fucking sucks, he had to get that take down in round 3 to warrant a split decision win and save his job.
- Stephen Thompson proved why he's 56-0 in kickboxing with that head kick KO over Stittgen.
- Renan Barao looked good, but his gas tank was exposed in that fight, he was noticeably slower in rounds 2 and 3. I think he should get a title shot soon, but he needs to improve his tank.
- Werdum looked sick as fuck in his striking, I'm never going to hate on him anymore, as long as he doesn't lay on the ground and pray for his opponent to lay on top of him again.
- Nick Diaz is a cry baby little bitch. I had Condit winning rounds 3/4/5 (I know it was 3 rounds to 2, mind is groggy after hangover, so maybe it was a different combo of 3 rounds for Condit), although 5 was close due to that take down. I would have scored it a split decision win.
- Condit was using a Mayweather style of fighting. He knew he was the faster, more technical fighter with a lot more tools in his arsenal, so he landed more shots and stayed out of harms way to capture the belt, which was smart, but he could have landed more shots if he wanted to.
Fighters were awarded $65,000 bonuses
Fight of the Night: Roy Nelson vs. Fabricio Werdum
Knockout of the Night: Stephen Thompson
Submission of the Night: Dustin Poirier
On February 05 2012 00:37 NMcNasty wrote: Judge Cecil Peoples had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
Judge Patricia Morse Jarman had it: 10-9, 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9 for Condit.
Judge Junichiro Kamijo had it 10-9, 9-10, 10-9, 10-9, 9-10 for Condit.
Only rounds all the judges agreed on were 1 and 4 for Condit.
Rekrul is a newb
Last edit: 05/02/2012 21:36
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 05 2012 21:24. Posts 1525
rematch imo
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Jhyun88 United States. Feb 05 2012 23:03. Posts 1383
On February 05 2012 20:13 PuertoRican wrote:
- Condit was using a Mayweather style of fighting. He knew he was the faster, more technical fighter with a lot more tools in his arsenal, so he landed more shots and stayed out of harms way to capture the belt, which was smart, but he could have landed more shots if he wanted to.
[/QUOTE]
No.... Mayweather actually stays in the pocket and uses head movement and gloves to be elusive. Carlos Condit literally ran away after a short exchange. There's not a lot of guys in the world that can do what Mayweather does. Carlos isn't even close.
Different lenses people have, through mine, a guy like Carlos on a different league than any Boxer, practicing "all their life" using big gloves, only allowed to hit small portion of the body, and most of most technical difficult stuff isn't in that sport. And only punches, it's like playing starcraft using only marines.
Condit must of trained with Kalib Starnes for the fight.
Diaz retires BJ, Condit retires Diaz, GSP retires Condit? Whatever your PERSONAL judging criteria is doesn't mean shit if it differs from the actual judging criteria. Didn't care who won but it would of been nice to see a fired up (for once) GSP vs Diaz.
On February 05 2012 15:45 DustySwedeDude wrote:
Yea I can buy some of the arguments (although anyone judging it 49-46 has to be a little bit weird) but this is the last time I buy a PPV including a Jackson "fighter" and I'll probably stop buying the although. Who the fuck cars about a fight if you can win it by going backwards and not actually trying to finish or throwing anything with bad intentions for 25 minutes?
I guess one or two of the head kicks that missed might have had some power, but other than that it just felt like Bisping had gotten a lot prettier, lost some of his power and all of his charisma.
Guida, Cerrone, Jones, Condit, Marquardt, Stann, Carwin are boring to you?
This illusion that Jackson fighters are boring or go backwards is retarded. Occasionally his guys will fight a guy who only goes forward, has an iron chin and great boxing, and then he will come up with a gameplan that is designed to win due to movement. Other times his guys fight someone who leaves his right hand at his waist and his chin up too high and then the gameplan will be to knock him out. Saying Jackson fighters are boring is complete and total ignorance of MMA. Look at that list of fighters and take a critical look at your statement.
On February 05 2012 15:45 DustySwedeDude wrote:
Yea I can buy some of the arguments (although anyone judging it 49-46 has to be a little bit weird) but this is the last time I buy a PPV including a Jackson "fighter" and I'll probably stop buying the although. Who the fuck cars about a fight if you can win it by going backwards and not actually trying to finish or throwing anything with bad intentions for 25 minutes?
I guess one or two of the head kicks that missed might have had some power, but other than that it just felt like Bisping had gotten a lot prettier, lost some of his power and all of his charisma.
Guida, Cerrone, Jones, Condit, Marquardt, Stann, Carwin are boring to you?
This illusion that Jackson fighters are boring or go backwards is retarded. Occasionally his guys will fight a guy who only goes forward, has an iron chin and great boxing, and then he will come up with a gameplan that is designed to win due to movement. Other times his guys fight someone who leaves his right hand at his waist and his chin up too high and then the gameplan will be to knock him out. Saying Jackson fighters are boring is complete and total ignorance of MMA. Look at that list of fighters and take a critical look at your statement.
Well I'm not a fan of any of those guys except for Cerrone.
JJ is obviously great and everything but he just owns people to hard, that's not Jackson's fault though so I can say anything about that.
I havn't followed Nate for more then 2 years and while he isn't super boring he doesn't strike me as a really fun fighter either and while Carwin has one hell of a punch I'm not overly impressed with him either.
I'll give you that Clay Guida is a really fun fighter, but I don't really feel compelled to buy the card just because he's fighting. Brian Stann is pretty good but not much more then that, while he's obviously a bad ass marine and everything he's not someone who'll be that exciting unless he fights someone who's not super technical and stands and bangs with him.
And Condits a great fighter obviously, but yesterdays fight was such crap that I'm having a hard time getting myself over the fact that'd I'd be supporting him if I bought a card he was on.
If you want to talk about exciting fighters on his line up I'll say that Dodson and Brandao who apparently trains there are much more fun.
I didn't mean to say they are champions or that you have to think they're great at MMA and be their fan.
However if you compare those fighters with their peers I can't recognize any more tendency to be boring than other fighters out there, in fact I would argue the opposite. You don't have to like the guys, just don't hate on them for some false reasoning that Jackson fighters are somehow boring when they are not. It's just some fairy tale brought into life by Dana White because the camp became too influential to his liking.
You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo
Last edit: 06/02/2012 11:10
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handbanana21 United States. Feb 06 2012 13:40. Posts 3037
Awesome, knew I wasn't the only one. Hope something gets done, this is suppose to be the closest artform in fighting, without jeopardizing people's lives. If it gets changed to this it'll be a shame.
Rematch, new, propper judges, and inforce some rules. When they clinced for 6-7 seconds one fight without trying to "fight" they got yelled at right away, running away for 25 minutes, at least some point deduction or something.
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LikeASet United States. Feb 06 2012 15:10. Posts 2113
people blaming condit for running away is kind of ridiculous. What about Diaz's lack of explosiveness, footwork, and kicking ability? Why do they want to root for someone who can only throw punches at a non moving object, no knockout power, cries when he loses, and with ok bjj?
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iakim322 United States. Feb 06 2012 16:08. Posts 1335
So much blame going around for a close five round decision. I'm not sure what the huge deal is. I just ignored Nick's post fight interview because well...that's him being him. Fights get swung on judges judging aggression and 'effective' striking tons of time in boxing rounds and there's 12 to score there. So obviously an MMA fight with just five where the fight gets swung on maybe the judging of 1 minute of 1 round could easily have a lot of different scores. Watching the fight, I think the only really clear rounds were for Condit at 3 and 4 and Nick for round 1. It'd of been fairly easy to call the other two rounds either way (I had it and was hoping for Nick...I guess being a bit biased) or a draw coming up with multiple results.
I am a bit disappointed though that Condit didn't follow up on pre-fight hype talk of really fighting...fighting Nick. He was my second favorite 170lber because he's usually pretty balls to the wall with his style and striking and it's not like he didn't throw some good ones but it's like he told himself a million times in his head to never stay in the pocket with Nick no matter what before the fight. Yeah sure probably the smarter thing to do. Still disappointed though
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iakim322 United States. Feb 06 2012 16:10. Posts 1335
I guess Nick could take it as a compliment that even badass fighters have to somewhat change their style for him and not retire like an idiot. Maybe
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iakim322 United States. Feb 06 2012 16:18. Posts 1335
On February 05 2012 22:13 Mariuslol wrote:
Different lenses people have, through mine, a guy like Carlos on a different league than any Boxer, practicing "all their life" using big gloves, only allowed to hit small portion of the body, and most of most technical difficult stuff isn't in that sport. And only punches, it's like playing starcraft using only marines.
On February 05 2012 15:45 DustySwedeDude wrote:
Yea I can buy some of the arguments (although anyone judging it 49-46 has to be a little bit weird) but this is the last time I buy a PPV including a Jackson "fighter" and I'll probably stop buying the although. Who the fuck cars about a fight if you can win it by going backwards and not actually trying to finish or throwing anything with bad intentions for 25 minutes?
I guess one or two of the head kicks that missed might have had some power, but other than that it just felt like Bisping had gotten a lot prettier, lost some of his power and all of his charisma.
I found that fight very entertaining.
Nick Diaz had one simple strategy of walking down Condit and throwing punches against the cage.
By the 4th round it was clear that it wasn't working.
People complaining as if Diaz was already the champ and Condit had to "prove" himself to win it. Mostly the same people who also said nothing when Bisping got robbed when he lost against Sonnen - MMA fanboys are the worst. I would've loved Diaz GSP as well but all these claims that Diaz won this fight is clearly wrong.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 06 2012 17:37. Posts 1525
i cannot see how diaz won that fight. all he did was be laaaaame.
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BILAT_POWER!!! Philippines. Feb 06 2012 17:38. Posts 1525
he is what we call. BAYOT! LOL
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TimDawg United States. Feb 06 2012 21:59. Posts 10197
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
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Stim_Abuser United States. Feb 06 2012 22:14. Posts 7499
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 06 2012 22:24. Posts 13257
It's good that there's a debate, to keep people talking, but I feel sad for the people who don't actually see that Diaz lost the fight.
Condit did what he had to do to win, it might not have been what people wanted to see, but he won.
I'll probably take Condit over GSP when they fight, just cuz I wont know how good GSP's knee will be, so he might not be able to do a lot of those wrestling take downs w/o hurting himself, and Condit will target his legs with kicks.
Matt Brown: $30,000 (includes $15,000 win bonus)
def. Chris Cope: $8,000
Matt Riddle: $30,000 (includes $15,000 win bonus)
def. Henry Martinez: $6,000
Rafael Natal: $20,000 (includes $10,000 win bonus)
def. Michael Kuiper: $6,000
Stephen Thompson: $12,000 (includes $6,000 win bonus)
def. Dan Stittgen: $6,000
Now, the usual disclaimer: The figures do not include deductions for items such as insurance, licenses and taxes. Additionally, the figures do not include money paid by sponsors, which can oftentimes be a substantial portion of a fighter's income. They also do not include any other "locker room" or special discretionary bonuses the UFC oftentimes pays. They also do not include portions of the pay-per-view revenue that some top-level fighters receive.
For example, as previously reported, UFC officials handed out additional $65,000 UFC 143 bonuses to Thompson ("KO of the Night"), Poirier ("Submission of the Night"), and Werdum and Nelson ("Fight of the Night").
In other words, the above figures are simply base salaries reported to the commission and do not reflect entire compensation packages for the event.
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 07 2012 00:33. Posts 13257
During Joe Rogan's podcast today, he said that Alex Caceres was kicked in the head hard in the 1st round in yesterday's match, and he didn't believe it when he asked his corner what round it was and they told him that was the 3rd round. Rogan thinks Alex was fighting rounds 2 and 3 on instinct. I haven't found an interview with Caceres yet, since he lost the fight by split decision.
The reason why this was brought up on the podcast was cuz they were having a discussion on concussions.
Hmm intersting to compare the names of those two lists posted. Are Bonnar and Bas really saying they thought Condit won or just saying well done on following a strategy?
And Rogan is on that list for saying Condit won? I don't think so...
Joe gives Diaz 1,2 and 5. Interesting to hear his opinion on his opinion while commentating (if that makes sense).
Most people on the Rogan board think Condit won, it's just the few Diaz fanboys are much, much louder at complaining about it. It's the same with Bisping and Sonnen, but Bisping has very few fans.
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 07 2012 04:57. Posts 13257
Rogan said today during his podcast that while commentating the Diaz/Condit fight, he thought Condit won.
When he went back home and re-watched the fight, he thought Diaz won.
He said that his seat really isn't the best place to watch the UFC fights live. He mentions that his eye level is where the fighters feet are at, plus there's a cage bar and referee getting in the way.
During the Werdum/Nelson fight, he couldn't see how Werdum got Nelson's back, so he had to have the camera crew replay the scene for him since it happened so fast and something was blocking his view, I think the referee.
On February 07 2012 03:57 PuertoRican wrote:
Rogan said today during his podcast that while commentating the Diaz/Condit fight, he thought Condit won.
When he went back home and re-watched the fight, he thought Diaz won.
He said that his seat really isn't the best place to watch the UFC fights live. He mentions that his eye level is where the fighters feet are at, plus there's a cage bar and referee getting in the way.
During the Werdum/Nelson fight, he couldn't see how Werdum got Nelson's back, so he had to have the camera crew replay the scene for him since it happened so fast and something was blocking his view, I think the referee.
It's in the video.
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RaiNKhAN United States. Feb 07 2012 08:15. Posts 4080
On February 07 2012 03:27 Funktion wrote:
Hmm intersting to compare the names of those two lists posted. Are Bonnar and Bas really saying they thought Condit won or just saying well done on following a strategy?
And Rogan is on that list for saying Condit won? I don't think so...
Joe gives Diaz 1,2 and 5. Interesting to hear his opinion on his opinion while commentating (if that makes sense).
2nd youtube comment:
natural born nigger :D
michaeljacksonisnotd 24 minutes ago
The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet!
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 07 2012 12:11. Posts 13829
is it just me or is Burke extremely hard to listen to. I had to shut off the pod cast like everytime he started yapping..
DJ Brown
justScrap85 DJ Brown
@CarlosCondit and @nickdiaz209 rematch?! @ufc @danawhite @malkikawa any truth in this? @MMAjunkie
Dana White
@danawhite Dana White
@justScrap85 @carloscondit @malkikawa the rumor is true. Carlos did accept the fight today and Carlos is coming on Friday not thur.
I'd probably go with Diaz by sub this time around. I just don't think Condit has what it takes to finish Diaz unless he goes balls to the wall and if he does I think he'll get knocked out fast so he'll probably keep out of the way again and Diaz will probably somehow get it to the ground and then take him out.
Not completely unlikely that Condit comes up with a slightly tweaked game plan that gives him another decision though.
I think it's a great idea to have them rematch as it fills in the long wait from now until November-ish when GSP is expected to return. I don't want for whoever is fighting GSP to be on the shelf for that long.
On February 08 2012 06:35 UpSwing wrote:
Diaz vs GSP --- possibly most expected fight of the year/years to come, maybe only shadowed by sonnen vs silva
GSP vs Condit --- yawn
Dana worked some magic for a rematch and is probably tipping diaz with the wise saying 'don't fuck it up again!'
Hype factor yes, in terms of how the fight goes I think GSP v Condit would be more exciting
I'm with you that Fitch, Kos and maybe Hendriks are really bad match-ups for him but Ellenberger looked horrid vs Rocha on the ground and McDonald probably would have some problems with Diaz on the ground too.
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LikeASet United States. Feb 08 2012 15:07. Posts 2113
yeah if anything Diaz vs GSP will be more zzzzz than watching GSP vs Condit. If anything is certain, it is that GSP knows how to fuck with one dimensional fighters, and Diaz is one dimensional.
OffTopic:did anyone else noticed that every second Condit`s word is "you know" ? watch the post fight video ,you know
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 08 2012 22:18. Posts 13257
What happens if Diaz loses to Condit in the rematch?
As a fan, it makes me feel like something is being setup/fixed behind the scenes.
- If Diaz loses to Condit again, he'll be 0-2 and never fight for the title again if Condit were to beat GSP.
- If Diaz beats Condit, it will setup a match against GSP later this year (we hope), and then Diaz will have the potential rubber match with Condit somewhere down the line.
- I have a feeling that if Condit and Diaz were to fight again and give the same exact showing in the 2nd fight as they gave in the 1st fight, Diaz would be given the win just so he could face GSP later this year and he could have a rematch with Condit later.
- If Diaz loses 0-2 to the same guy back to back in a #1 contender match, he wont be relevant for shit in the Welterweight division, which will make him move up to Middleweight like he mentioned doing awhile back.
Diaz > Condit via conspiracy theory in the rematch.
----------
"When contacted today by MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com), Diaz manager Cesar Gracie said "no" when asked if a rematch recently announced is a reality. He declined further comment."
Cesar Gracie: "Yeah, I said that (there will be no rematch). But that's all I can say. I can't say anything else. I can't do anything. Quote that if you want to. There is not going to be a rematch. Other than that, that's all I can say."
Rekrul is a newb
Last edit: 08/02/2012 22:33
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 08 2012 22:24. Posts 13829
GSP will have crazy ring rust by the time he fights again. wonder if there will be $ to make on bets?
Last edit: 08/02/2012 22:24
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 08 2012 23:31. Posts 13257
^ After Condit won the interim belt, GSP opened up 2 days later as a -350 favorite.
I'm not sure how that all works since the fight isn't even signed, and then Condit will probably defend his belt before then.
On February 08 2012 14:07 LikeASet wrote:
yeah if anything Diaz vs GSP will be more zzzzz than watching GSP vs Condit. If anything is certain, it is that GSP knows how to fuck with one dimensional fighters, and Diaz is one dimensional.
The only interesting fight for GSP in that weightclass is Koscheck for two reasons:
Interesting to see how often they'll let him finger GSP in the face
Interesting to see how often in a row they'll let him fight after fingering people in the face
How is it even news that Diaz was smoking some pot? He's been doing it for years. And why do they still test for that? These commissions are so out of touch with reality. It's really sad if this derails the Condit/Diaz rematch.
On February 09 2012 10:48 Night2o1 wrote:
weed, #1 performance enhancer
errr day
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 10 2012 00:35. Posts 13257
As I was reading Sherdog just now, someone brought up a good point I was thinking about earlier while on the toilet.
"If Nick Diaz beat Carlos Condit last Saturday, he would have gotten the belt stripped from him and the win would be changed most likely to a NC."
So what does this really say about Nick Diaz? It sounds like he doesn't give a shit about respecting the UFC, his opponents, or playing by the rules.
Getting in trouble for smoking weed is obviously retarded, but rules are rules in sports, so it's sad that Diaz chose to do things his way instead of staying off of weed for however many months he needs to, so that he can pass the drug test, especially when he's gotten in trouble for it before and knows about other UFC fighters who got in trouble for testing positive for weed.
nick thinks he failed the drug test due to eating hemp seeds. of anyone using this type of excuse, hes the most likely to actually be telling the truth. i assume he wasnt smoking leading up to the fight, but still, this is no different than a tainted supplement issue. always on the fighters head
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RaiNKhAN United States. Feb 10 2012 01:59. Posts 4080
On February 09 2012 12:20 Daut wrote:
theyre both easy fights for GSP.
hendricks/ellenberger are tougher fights for gsp imo
agreed he would smash gsp's face in
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PuertoRican United States. Feb 11 2012 16:34. Posts 13257
Rekrul is a newb
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terrybunny19240 United States. Feb 12 2012 00:22. Posts 13829
why is weed on the banned substances list or w/e btw?
any illegal/not prescribed drug is on the list?
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United States. Jan 31 2012 06:37. Posts 4080
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