UFC 143: Diaz vs. Condit - Page 2

On January 31 2012 15:52 K40Cheddar wrote: Show nested quote + On January 31 2012 15:05 iakim322 wrote:   On January 31 2012 01:05 K40Cheddar wrote: FUCK that little bitch diaz. Hope he gets raped to shit. Although I wouldn't mind seeing him win and then get layed the fuck out by GSP. More dreams please. You mean dry humped on the floor for 25 minutes? I don't dislike GSP but he's not laying anyone out these days. If you're not crushing a Jake Shields in stand-up, you're not laying out Nick Diaz. I'd LOVE to watch GSP lay and pray on his ass for 25 minutes. Nick Diaz is a disgrace to humanity. The dude has absolutely no social skills, gives little to no respect against anyone he fights, is completely delusional about reality (GSP got hurt on purpose not to fight him, give me a break), and is overly cocky to the point of sound like a ridiculous asshole. GSP even said himself that Nick Diaz is the worst human being he's ever seen and I agree with that statement. Sure I respect his standup rape skills. He made BJ Penn and ever other fighter he faced look like a chump. Obviously he's a great fighter but my issue is with his personality. In my opinion his is a disgrace and a terrible role model for the UFC. Feel free to disagree. Just my 2 cents.

WTF

way to judge over a person u dont even know in real life ....
Nick Diaz is a tremendous Fighter !
Fighting is his job. Fighting is what he is good at.
He hasnt signed up for taking a career as being a role model for children in the first place...

He may be stupid he may be bad at social skills ...
Nevertheless a lot of that shit about him is simply made up prefight trash talk

Calling him a disgrace to humanity and a ridiculous asshole just by believing some prefight trash talk shit makes u an asshole,too

boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup"
he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round.
he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.

On January 31 2012 18:42 whamm! wrote: boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup" he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round. he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.

Well not really.

Sure Nick does have really atrocious footwork and head movement, but several successful boxers throughout history have too.

Margarito is pretty successful and he pretty much fights exactly like Diaz. Even if someone has shit footwork and head movement they can make up for it with a granite chin, a crazy pace and high punching volume.

So while his style isn't very technical, it's still pretty effective with his attributes. In MMA and in Boxing.

I still have to see him up against a very decent striker who can likewise take chances and punches before I start believing in his striking. His sick jujitsu, cardio and chin I have to agree super enhance his striking effectiveness by a ton.

KOSCHECK!!!

On January 31 2012 21:59 whamm! wrote: I still have to see him up against a very decent striker who can likewise take chances and punches before I start believing in his striking. His sick jujitsu, cardio and chin I have to agree super enhance his striking effectiveness by a ton.

Possibly.

That said Paul Daley is definitely a pretty damn good striker. One of the very best at 170 in MMA for sure.

I agree with whamm!.

Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them.

Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years:

- Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.)
- Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.)
- KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.)
- Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.)
- Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.)
- BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.)


Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5).

----------

Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt.

Condit is a very good test for him pre-GSP so im very sure this will be a sick one
Koscheck vs Diaz would be nuts too

I think Nick is super awesome lol, so what if he's not got some sick vocabulary, linguistics or is articulate, he's a genius in my eyes, a different kind of genius. And the gsp thingy LOL, it's more like, one of the first time I've seen gsp act out of character and without his usual high integrity and character.

Whenever 2 awesome people fight, I just try and not pick sides, it makes it x10 as fun, + I know that we as humans always latch on to a side, and it makes me feel all awesome and unique. Then whoever has the best heart, I hope win xD

On January 31 2012 22:38 PuertoRican wrote: I agree with whamm!. Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them. Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years: - Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.) - Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.) - KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.) - Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.) - Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.) - BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.) Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5). ---------- Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt.

Pretty dumb simplification of his opponents if you ask me. You failed to mention how dominate he has looked in his recent bouts. When did Daley become just an OK striker? How about Penn? It's not like Diaz used any of his size to muscle him around, he basically beat Penn in his own game. Carlos is a good match-up for Diaz, whereas GSP is absolutely the nut worst for him.

bring back the late 90's/early 2000 mma! not as technical and not as skilled as today but they were so good to watch.

I think Nick Diaz gets a lot of hate he doesnt deserve ...

He knocked out Robbie Lawler (dont say me robbie doesnt know how to strike in MMA)
he beat Fierball Kid Gomi when Gomi was 27-3 and considerd TOP3 of his weight class !
He crushed through Scott Smith in a stand up war (Scott smith may not be the best but he sure knows how to strike)
He beat Paul Daley in a standup war ! (plz stop saying Daley has medium striking ... he is a fucking standup beast(go through the list of Good standup guys he knocked out !) and his only downfall is that he has no BJJ at all)

He beat Cyborg in a stand up war (allthough he submitted him he still dominated the standup)
he turned BJ Penn into a punching bag (BJ has extremly good MMA Boxing)

Nick Diaz is 13-1 since 2007 and had a bunch of impressive dominating performances (his only loss to KJ Noons whom he won in the rematch)

Those are the facts
If u arent impressed by what he did as a fighter so far then u cant be helped

It is true that he hasnt faceed the very TOP 5 of the 170 Division yet. (GSP, Koscheck,Ellenberger,Jon Fitch and Condit)
However he starts with Condit now and we will see

On January 31 2012 18:42 whamm! wrote: boxers all over the world must be laughing their asses off hearing how Nick Diaz has "sick standup" he's more of like the Gatti of MMA, put him up against somone who can really throw punches and he be KTFO in 1 round. he's tough and has insane cardio so respect.

I was a boxing fan way before MMA and still probably am more of a boxing fan even though the business itself sucks dick. And really now...who the hell in MMA are you talking about is gonna 'really throw punches' and ktfo Nick in 1 round? Blind hate is laughable. He doesn't have the best boxing technique (who in MMA really does?) but he uses his range extremely well for a standup MMA fighter...has a rock solid chin...knows he does...and keeps on an ultra intense pace for every minute because he also has better cardio than almost anyone. He pushed Daley, a huge puncher, for almost every second of the round in their fight...got dropped by a big counter once and recovered like he almost always does.

He also regularly spars in just boxing to get better at it with Andre Ward around the bay area. The undisputed super middleweight (168 lbs in boxing) champ. I don't think Andre would give a shit about getting in some boxing work with an mma fighter if Nick wasn't giving him at least some pressure/good work.

And yeah all this shit about diminishing Paul Daley's power in standup is just some hating to discredit both or something. Daley has no BJJ. No takedown defense. Or really anything on the ground. He's just been able to knock the shit out of some people including borderline elite's like Martin Kampmann. Nick has really good submissions. All he would have had to do was get the Daley fight to the ground and it'd be over. Yet he stood up with him and walked a monster puncher with no ground game down for 5 whole minutes instead

I think the issues with Nick isn't that he's actually a bad human being, it's more that he basically doesn't give a fuck. He's there to fight, he talks a bit of smack and obviously he is fairly rude but when you listen to him he actually sounds fairly reasonable for the most part.

Tbh I think a lot of the crap the last months has been mostly promotion-related.

Also, he's a very, very good striker by MMA standards and his BJJ is probably on pair with the best in the division if not the very best: I see GSP, Shields, Rocha and maybe Penn giving him a run for his money on the ground but except for Rocha they're mostly top position grappers as far as I can tell so I'd guess that Nicks guard might be the best in the division.

While he did come up short against wrestlers earlier in his carrier I don't see anything with his style that say he can't beat the crap out of them, especially not in a 5 rounder. If he actually only gets to fight 5 rounders from now on I don't see anyone except GSP have more then ~30% to beat him.

Andre Ward would spar with me if I paid him too, don't tell me Ward is doing the sparring for some practice? Why the hell would he do it with a guy who clearly hasn't had pro boxing credentials (maybe he's friends or gets paid for sure). I dont hate Diaz and I want him to win but if anything, I hate MMA's hype machine and it makes me feel stupid each time I get sucked into it. People are already talking like he's champ (like with what happened to Sonnen) when he clearly has not faced top 5 in the UFC. Try to objectively watch him fight and tell me he "boxes" really well, he keeps his hands down all the time and peppers opponents non stop since he doesnt tire and has a good chin plus excellent on his back, unorthodox but effective for MMA yes, "sick standup"? I have to disagree.

Like I said, the condit fight will change my opinion on him. Till then he's more strikerfoce than UFC to me.

On February 01 2012 04:38 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On January 31 2012 22:38 PuertoRican wrote: I agree with whamm!. Nick Diaz obviously has skill, but his opponents have always been lower tier or had something wrong with them. Guys who were considered good that Diaz beat in recent years: - Frank Shamrock (already washed up at the time, and his fight against Diaz was his retirement match.) - Hayato Sakurai (already on a downslope in his career, he was on a 2 fight losing streak before he lost to Diaz and also lost the next match after Diaz, aka 0-4 streak.) - KJ Noons (He won a unanimous Decision against a boxer only, aka he couldn't finish a guy who is only boxing and I think this is when Diaz was wanting to only stand vs. Noons in the rematch.) - Cyborg Santos (While Cyborg is a black belt in BJJ, he hasn't used it in Strikeforce, the last time he won via submission was in March 2008. Sporting an 18-15 record, we watch Cyborg's fights because he brawls.) - Paul Daley (Daley gassed out vs. Diaz, and Daley's boxing isn't that great, he just has power in his hands with medium speed punches that take out low-mid tier guys, and he doesn't have any ground game.) - BJ Penn (Penn has skill, but he's too small for Diaz's weight class, but he was looking good against Diaz until he started gassing, then he turned into a punching bag.) Diaz didn't pick his opponents, he just fought outside the UFC and faced the best he could face at the time. Now that he's back in the UFC, after originally leaving the UFC with a 4-4 record, he beat BJ Penn, who has skill and name recognition, but we wont ever see him fight for the title in any weight class inside the UFC again, unless he can do something about his current win/loss trend (1-3-1 in last 5). ---------- Side note, Stephen Thompson, who's on this card, is 56-0 in Kickboxing matches and 5-0 in MMA (2 TKO/KO, 1 Submission, 1 Decision). He trains BJJ under Carlos Machado, and 8th degree black belt. Pretty dumb simplification of his opponents if you ask me. You failed to mention how dominate he has looked in his recent bouts. When did Daley become just an OK striker? How about Penn? It's not like Diaz used any of his size to muscle him around, he basically beat Penn in his own game. Carlos is a good match-up for Diaz, whereas GSP is absolutely the nut worst for him.

Daley's power has made people think his striking is something better than it is, in terms of technique. Nick Diaz has better technique than Daley with his hands, but Daley has more power.
Diaz did beat Daley in his own game, but Daley couldn't keep up with a someone who is good with his hands+hands a lot of cardio, Daley then gassed out. Yes, Diaz did land a lot of shots, but it was Daley's gas tank that couldn't hold up. Other people in recent years have been able to go 3-5 rounds against Diaz, in terms of cardio.

And yes, Diaz did beat Penn in his own game too, which seemed to be stand and bang followed by gassing out and getting whooped on.

I already think Diaz has skill, but the way he fights against Condit will let me know how he actually does vs. a well rounded fighter in the top of the WW division.

On February 01 2012 08:10 PplusAD wrote: I think Nick Diaz gets a lot of hate he doesnt deserve ... He knocked out Robbie Lawler (dont say me robbie doesnt know how to strike in MMA) he beat Fierball Kid Gomi when Gomi was 27-3 and considerd TOP3 of his weight class ! He crushed through Scott Smith in a stand up war (Scott smith may not be the best but he sure knows how to strike) He beat Paul Daley in a standup war ! (plz stop saying Daley has medium striking ... he is a fucking standup beast(go through the list of Good standup guys he knocked out !) and his only downfall is that he has no BJJ at all) He beat Cyborg in a stand up war (allthough he submitted him he still dominated the standup) he turned BJ Penn into a punching bag (BJ has extremly good MMA Boxing) Nick Diaz is 13-1 since 2007 and had a bunch of impressive dominating performances (his only loss to KJ Noons whom he won in the rematch) Those are the facts If u arent impressed by what he did as a fighter so far then u cant be helped It is true that he hasnt faceed the very TOP 5 of the 170 Division yet. (GSP, Koscheck,Ellenberger,Jon Fitch and Condit) However he starts with Condit now and we will see

- Yes, he did KO Robbie Lawler, which people always bring up. That fight happened 7 years and 10 months ago.

- I don't like to hate on Japanese fighters that much, but they're records are usually padded with a lot of wins vs. various Japanese who are usually terrible vs. Western fighters. I didn't see the Diaz/Gomi fight, so I wont comment on it. I just look at the foreigners who compete in Japanese events and the Japanese that come over to the UFC and compete plus the massive Draws they always carry with them, and it up in my head. The only Japanese fighter who seems to still be considered top 5 in any weight class is Shinya Aoki, who fought only 2 times outside of Japan which were a loss to Gilbert Melendez and an easy submission vs. journeyman Lyle Beerbohm who isn't fighting under any league/company right now.

- Scott Smith's striking is overrated as well. I still take his side in recent fights but he usually loses. He's on a 3 loss streak and is 1-4 in his last 5, and that 1 win was due to Cung Le gassing out from doing too many round house kicks in a fight he was dominating. Cung beat him in the rematch 6 months later via strikes.

- Daley has power, not great technique. He can KO a bunch of mid-tier fighters, but that wont make him a beast in striking. The only guys he fought rated in the top 10 were Jake Shields, Josh Koscheck, and Nick Diaz (He lost to all 3 of them). His best win vs. a striker was against Martin Kampmann via TKO. I didn't see that fight so I wont comment on it. As soon as Daley gets back to the UFC, he'll do some damage since he has been working a lot on his TDD and already started showing it in his last 2 fights. If Daley can get faster with his punches and kicks, he'll be sick, along with his TDD.

- Cyborg is a brawler and Diaz used technique + cardio + hard chin to win that fight. Cyborg has an 18-15 record, 9 of those losses were via TKO. He's on a 2 loss streak, 2-3 in his last 5, 4-6 in his last 10.

- BJ Penn is still good and has skill, but Penn is known for having bad cardio, which is why he lost the fight against Diaz. Penn was doing good until he started gassing, then turned into a punching bag and received "the worst beating he ever took by any fighter", as stated by Dana White.

- And yes, he does have a 13-1 record since 2007, and I think that 1 loss was from a cut that stopped the fight cuz he was bleeding too much or something, so he probably would have won that first fight too. I'm not saying Diaz sucks and doesn't have skill, he just hasn't faced anyone in recent years who's a well rounded top fighter.

I do think that Diaz vs. Condit will the hardest match that either of these guys will have had so far, and it will probably be a top 10 fight of 2012.

If you give me $1 for everyday Paul Daley is not in the UFC for the rest of my life, I'll give you $2,000 for when he gets back in the UFC.

On February 01 2012 22:07 PuertoRican wrote: I do think that Diaz vs. Condit will the hardest match that either of these guys will have had so far, and it will probably be a top 10 fight of 2012.

I agree with that.

Still thinking of putting a bit of money on Diaz but I don't know if the odds are right.