Oslo next to suffer terrorism - Page 4

On July 22 2011 18:09 SpasticInk wrote: If you read Eurpol's statistics about terrorism in Europe between 2006-2009, these are the numbers: Total number: 1770 Islamic: 6 (0.34%) Right Wing Ethno-Nationalist and Separatist: 1596 (90.17%) Left Wing: 106 (5.99%) Other/Not Specified: 62 (3.50%) You can find the document at Interpol's official website. Here is another link: http://www.loonwatch.com/2010/01/terrorism-in-europe/ Sometimes it's easy to blame extreme islamism for everything, jumping to conclusions without the proper facts.

That is the most missleading statistics ever tho and has nothing to do with that might happen inside scandinavia. Just because IRA and ETA does a LOT of small and some big terrorist-attacks in their homecoutrys doesnt mean those stats say anything about the rest of the world. I dont even know if i will class them as right wing, but im totally no expert on this so i will say no more about that. What i can say tho is look worldwide at what group of terrorist who have most lethal attacks and you will see a hole other story. And for the political violence in our own country, Sweden, i would say that the left wing does 90% of it, the hole retarded nazi-thing from the 90s is long ago dead.

On July 22 2011 15:20 EvilSky wrote: Nolan you dont like immigration yet you are from a country that is rooted in it and you yourself moved to another country so you could play poker because you couldnt back home? The irony is too much.

Not to derail, but just to clarify a few things. I was born an Irish citizen, I'm not sure you're aware of that or not. I moved back last January and didn't move for poker at all. I've spent 8 of my 25 years in Ireland. Both of my parents are Irish. I wouldn't expect anyone to consider me Irish, but I carry an Irish passport so w/e that means it is what it is.

Second, I didn't say I was against immigration, and just because immigrating to a nation built on it was beneficial to me does not mean it was beneficial to America. I would hope I could be critical of a policy of my own nation, even if it were actually to my benefit. I maintain that the general perception that if you're land sucks, move to someone elses is bad for longterm global development.

Not sure how you figured i moved for poker, I haven't even played online much since before BF.

All that being said maybe current immigration trends and their impacts are better for a new thread.

It's not a response to what happened in Norway, it's a response people assuming it's a terror attack made by muslims.

I'm not defending any fundamentalism on any side here, but it is pretty obvious to me that people are a bit misinformed about the prevalence of terrorism among different groups. This thread is a pretty good indication how people are blaming a group while it rather appears to be something completely different. How do you justify that?

Like I said, the number of attacks are for me irrelevant. It's like BP saying that 2010 was their best year regarding safety because they counted the NUMBER of incidents, not the impact they had. Those numbers are highly missleading and are only used by people trying to defend islamic terrorists, for God knows what reason. I guess they think they're doing muslims a favour. Not so much.

Fun tidbit, the attack in Madrid 2004 caused more deaths than ETA, IRA, FLNC, Right wing extremists and all non-muslim terrorists attacks in Europe for the last 10 years. Combined.

On July 22 2011 18:24 SpasticInk wrote: It's not a response to what happened in Norway, it's a response people assuming it's a terror attack made by muslims. I'm not defending any fundamentalism on any side here, but it is pretty obvious to me that people are a bit misinformed about the prevalence of terrorism among different groups. This thread is a pretty good indication how people are blaming a group while it rather appears to be something completely different. How do you justify that?

I'm the first to admit that I thought this was the act of a muslim terrorist cell, just like in Stockholm. I'm also the first to admit I clearly was wrong. It will be interesting to find out his motives.
And if you're immediate thoughts werent "radical muslim terrorists" then congratulations, you've managed to not be affected by what has happened the last 10 years world wide.

+ Show Spoiler +

Fuck this guy had to list esports as one of his interests on the facebook profile

Should this count as a big or small terrorist attack then? How is it irrelevant that between 2006 and 2009 6 out of 1770 attacks were made by extreme muslim groups and yet whenever a terror attack occurs everyone assumes it's because of "the muslims"?

On July 22 2011 18:30 lukeperry wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2011 18:24 SpasticInk wrote: It's not a response to what happened in Norway, it's a response people assuming it's a terror attack made by muslims. I'm not defending any fundamentalism on any side here, but it is pretty obvious to me that people are a bit misinformed about the prevalence of terrorism among different groups. This thread is a pretty good indication how people are blaming a group while it rather appears to be something completely different. How do you justify that? I'm the first to admit that I thought this was the act of a muslim terrorist cell, just like in Stockholm. I'm also the first to admit I clearly was wrong. It will be interesting to find out his motives. And if you're immediate thoughts werent "radical muslim terrorists" then congratulations, you've managed to not be affected by what has happened the last 10 years world wide.

'

Not saying that it didnt pop my mind, however it's a complete different thing to THINK it and to write it down and accuse a group without any evidence. That's my point.

On July 22 2011 18:30 lukeperry wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2011 18:24 SpasticInk wrote: It's not a response to what happened in Norway, it's a response people assuming it's a terror attack made by muslims. I'm not defending any fundamentalism on any side here, but it is pretty obvious to me that people are a bit misinformed about the prevalence of terrorism among different groups. This thread is a pretty good indication how people are blaming a group while it rather appears to be something completely different. How do you justify that? I'm the first to admit that I thought this was the act of a muslim terrorist cell, just like in Stockholm. I'm also the first to admit I clearly was wrong. It will be interesting to find out his motives. And if you're immediate thoughts werent "radical muslim terrorists" then congratulations, you've managed to not be affected by what has happened the last 10 years world wide.

Yeah, same. If something similar happened again, I would still assume it was a muslim terrorist act until it was proven not to be. This time it turned out not to be, but who can honestly say it wasn't their first thought too?

On July 22 2011 18:32 SpasticInk wrote: Should this count as a big or small terrorist attack then? How is it irrelevant that between 2006 and 2009 6 out of 1770 attacks were made by extreme muslim groups and yet whenever a terror attack occurs everyone assumes it's because of "the muslims"?

http://politisktinkorrekt.info/2011/04/19/tt-vinklar-europols-rapport-om-terrorism-%E2%80%93-ovrig-media-svaljer-villigt-betet/ Just to argue a bit more about the relevance of your statistics (its a swedish site, written in swedish so no none-swedes have to click).

If you read thru that one could say that your own report acts as evidence against your thesis.

On July 22 2011 18:32 SpasticInk wrote: Should this count as a big or small terrorist attack then? How is it irrelevant that between 2006 and 2009 6 out of 1770 attacks were made by extreme muslim groups and yet whenever a terror attack occurs everyone assumes it's because of "the muslims"?

Because for the last decade, whenever there has been a major attack, it has almost always involved muslims. You gotta realise that the statistic includes alooot of things. I guess its a matter of definition. To me THIS is a terrorist attack.
Of the top of my mind, I can only come up with one major attack that wasnt radical muslims. The Moscow airport bombing. Well two now, if it turns out this guy had no connection to muslim extremists.

Contradicting earlier news reports i posted.

A police official said the 32-year-old ethnic Norwegian suspect arrested at the camp on Utoya island appears to have acted alone in both attacks, and that "it seems like that this is not linked to any international terrorist organizations at all." The official spoke on condition of anonymity because that information had not been officially released by Norway's police. "It seems it's not Islamic-terror related," the official said. "This seems like a madman's work." The official said the attack "is probably more Norway's Oklahoma City than it is Norway's World Trade Center." Domestic terrorists carried out the 1995 attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City, while foreign terrorists were responsible for the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks. The official added, however, "it's still just hours since the incident happened. And the investigation is going on with all available resources."

http://www.necn.com/07/22/11/Police-Oslo-bomb-camp-shootings-domestic/landing_nation.html?&apID=658ca2efac354150ba0c0c9aaf10e358


If this ends up being right i request a vid of stygg eating his hat

fine, i'll eat my hat, but i'm not so results oriented that i wouldn't happily make the same assumption again given similar circumstances: a bomb explosion in a capital european city - i think my line is very +ev.

Yes i will also eat my hat, in this case i was wrong (even if its far from proved he was also guilty for the bombing). He does not have any connection with terror-organisations (it seems as of yet) and he seems to be an right-wing extremist. I cant think of one single good (well obviously no reason could be good for massmurder but in his mind) reason he could have to do this insane thing, i hope the an explanation will be out soon.

I still stand for every single argument i have made in this thread though, but yeah my mind jumped to conclusions too fast in this case.

On July 22 2011 12:55 Zep wrote: Sad sad news. Sealing borders and embracing bigotry doesn't prevent terrorism, but I understand the frustration.

Agree
Especially at this point sealing the borders would just provoke another wave of terrorist acts

What they need is a better control over the immigrants, full background history and etc. that would be a nice start


And what I dont understand is how can NATO go and just bomb Libya for their reasons but not invest resources into just running all over that radical muslim sect in Africa. How can organisations which "headquarters" are based in 3rd world countries be that stable and why is noone doing anything about it

Also please do not just randomly accuse anyone that anything to do with muslim as if they are a part of this

I also think it will suck balls when I have kids someday and we go on a trip to Stockholm and the entire downtown has signs in Somali, Arabic, Turkish, and whatever. It's really cool that we grew up in a world where the culture difference between London, Stockholm and Ankara was vast. It seems at this rate in 100 years if you dropped someone in Stockholm, Paris, Berlin, New York, wherever, they wouldn't even be able to tell which country they were in until they heard people speaking. I mean, I was just in Amsterdam and literally this entire street was Turkish Doner places with English signs. If you didn't know where it was you'd be 100% unable to differentiate between that street in Netherlands and any street in the Bronx.

this feels like that - might've misunderstood you. Im not a muslim myself but we cant just attack such a large group of people. Radical muslims are what we should be dealing with.

People migrating and the culture of every country changing is absolutely natural its happening ever since the human kind existed. You cant exactly say any country has an original culture which they've kept and didnt change throughout their whole history except faily new countries like the US. Culture difference will always be that huge the only thing that ll be different is its coordinates

man this thread is awesome and interesting from the perspective of undoubtedly almost everyone here is being close to 100% honest, which is rare in open dialogue.

cheers to all contributors.

The "acted alone" story somehow doesnt add up - chances of that happening are probably worse than hitting the jackpot from the totalizer

On July 22 2011 19:43 Stygg wrote: fine, i'll eat my hat, but i'm not so results oriented that i wouldn't happily make the same assumption again given similar circumstances: a bomb explosion in a capital european city - i think my line is very +ev.

considering you could have just waited a few hours and then you wouldn't have to eat your hat I would say your line is -ev

Ok news update that came fresh from a press conference, this is totally and utterly insane... Now they say this lonely man managed to kill 80 (!) kids on the island, and still 7 dead from the bombing in central Oslo. It's late and maybe theres been a misstake in the reporting but a lot of different newspapers are writing this number.

This must be the worst deed in people killed in "modern" scandinavian history by far. A single man, armed with a sniper gun and a machine gun, killing 80 people on an island.

^ confirmed 3 mins ago LA times

A horrific shooting rampage at a youth summer camp left at least 80 people dead as Norway reeled from apparently related terrorist attacks in a nation long known as the home of the Nobel Peace Prize.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwor...mbing-20110722,0,1086666.story?page=1

1 min ago ABC

The 80 dead at the camp was a dramatic increase over an earlier police report that at least 10 had died at the youth camp. Police director Oystein Maeland told reporters many more victims were discovered between the two reports, according to The Associated Press.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/oslo-no...-upped-87-norwegian/story?id=14135844