if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
lol POKER
1
palak United States. Jul 26 2011 19:29. Posts 4601
This
On July 26 2011 18:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
On May 03 2011 19:23 Baal wrote:
The good news is that american troops deaths by IEDs are growing exponentially and its calculated that the defending forces currently have recluted more forces than what they initially had at the start of the invasion and this will quickly turn into another Vietnam.
Its not that im happy that soldiers die, i am indifferent to their deaths, after all they are victims of their own stupidity and ignorance and are there to kill people so its deserved, however it feels good when afghanistan is fending off another imperialist attack just like they did against the russians, but this time on their own (last time they had help from the united states), its a shame that this only breeds more hatred, violence and religious fanaticism, but its better for the world overall if aghanistan causes severe losses in the united states war machine.
Also Baal quit posting about shit you can't change nor know anything about and start fixing your own shitty country. All people like you ever do is Q.Q over shit and never actually do anything political. How about you act on your seemingly hardcore beliefs big boy instead of spending hours making outrageous stands then counter other people's arguments with even more outlandish claims.
You want an Anarchy? Fucking start one.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
On July 26 2011 18:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
On July 26 2011 03:29 Baal wrote:
trolling ignorant americans aside here is my point of view:
Media and people try to jump into certain patterns to know why this happened, (oh he listened to slipknot, he played WoW, he hated muslims) but its impossible to pinpoint what caused it in that way, million people fit in that criteria and yet they dont go on murderous rampages so trying to simplify this in this way as media loves to do is simply its ridiculous and aimed at intellectully lazy people (most people) who like to believe in childish concepts.
He is simply a byproduct of a violent society, a country who aided the war against iraq, also involved in afghanistan and in libia, how can society grow as peaceful individuals when violence is all that surrounds us.
And i dont mean Norway as being a particularly violent country (even if its quite eager to jump into wars) but society is, society lives under the states constant violence and are fed these catalysts of violence: race, religion and nationalism.
if you read 10 mins of his "manifesto" his motives become pretty clear lol
also
On July 26 2011 17:30 Spitfiree wrote:
Heeeeeeeeeeere we go again
On July 26 2011 18:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
I wasnt ranting about the state but society, and yes violent incidents are related to a violent society.
You talked about the huge compassion and empathy of people bla bla, but then i said where were those people when Norway were killing people abroad?, didnt they condone that violence in those wars?, if they did, how can they act surprised when they condone the murder of thousands of innocents in foreign countries and get a few deaths caused by a violent maniac on their own country?
You said you are no nationalistic but somehow you seem more upset about the deaths of norweigans caused by one crazed man, thant he deaths of foreigners condoned by an entire nation, dont you see the hypocrisy?
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
Silver_nz New Zealand. Jul 27 2011 06:39. Posts 5647
baal you have leveled up. whatchya been reading lately?
On July 26 2011 18:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
I wasnt ranting about the state but society, and yes violent incidents are related to a violent society.
You talked about the huge compassion and empathy of people bla bla, but then i said where were those people when Norway were killing people abroad?, didnt they condone that violence in those wars?, if they did, how can they act surprised when they condone the murder of thousands of innocents in foreign countries and get a few deaths caused by a violent maniac on their own country?
You said you are no nationalistic but somehow you seem more upset about the deaths of norweigans caused by one crazed man, thant he deaths of foreigners condoned by an entire nation, dont you see the hypocrisy?
this is stupid. you are grasping at straws because you decided to form an argument before you tried to understand what happened here, and then you are trying to find information that somehow fits into the argument you already tried to form, but you ignore any information to the contrary. I'd like to make a long post now, but I have to go to work soon so it will be brief.
1: if norway is a violent nation then every nation is a violent nation, and most nations would be significantly more violent than norway. the accurate description of norway, compared to the rest of the world, is "norway is a peaceful nation". this guy himself killed between 150 and 200% of the average murders per year in norway, and even doing a per-capita calculation leaves norway as one of the least "murderous" countries/societies on earth. also very low with regards to violent crime. according to your logic, we'd be seeing sprees like this regularly in all western countries, but we don't. massacres nowadays, actually tend to originate in say, mexico, or random african country - places where foreign policy is unimportant, where the state has lost control over the country, and at least with regards to random african countries, where they have not been guilty of any type of invasion of foreign countries.
2: norway donates more foreign aid per capita than virtually every other country in the world, and a bigger % of the GDP than every country cept denmark(last I checked at least.) you might state that foreign aid doesn't work, not gonna have that discussion, but foreign aid DOES show a caring mentality.
3: the previous time I participated in, or even witnessed, large scale demonstrations/political parades, was while we protested the iraq war. but we had a different government back then, which ignored that a large majority of the population was staunchly against the invasion. as for afghanistan, while I believe it was a stupid invasion, it was also legitimate. as for libya, our involvement has been rather small, but invading libya was a hasty decision which perhaps should not have been made.. it's fine to critisize these invasions, but the place and timing is just stupid. (although afghanistan and iraq have been debated to death and everyone agrees that iraq was retarded, that afghanistan is impossible to invade but that the reasons for invasion were legitimate, and with libya there's not really any consensus yet.)
4: I care more because I am more exposed to the horror. as you can imagine, the worst event to have happened in norway since world war two does indeed dominate the media. I don't intrinsicly place more value on a norwegian life than on a sudani life, but the closeness of the event, and the exposure I have to the personal destinies of people involved, getting to know how people who were killed were in real life, as well as the fact that I have had many friends and acquaintances present at this very camp in the past (but not this year to my knowledge), makes this more emotionally touching. additionally, if you look at amount of dead and compare it, per capita, to 9/11, then twice as big a percentage of norway's population was killed, than what the case was for usa and 9/11. I know that my brother knew many people who were there, and probably a couple people who were killed, as well. if I didn't respond emotionally to this, there'd be something seriously wrong with my brain.
5: I care more because this event will colour norwegian politics for the next decade - at least. so far, I am thoroughly impressed by the response, politicians are stating that our response to this will be more democracy, more tolerance, more openness (as these are ideas ABB hated), and that this event will not cause an upsurge in surveillance - some guy even stated that "people like anders breivik are not supposed to be detected". and as for your allegations that norway is a violent society, have you not seen the response to this? no norwegians are crying for blood here. people from other nations have been outraged by the idea that this guy is going to get 21 years (+ indefinite jailtime) in a comfy prison cell, norwegians are supportive of our humane prison system and arguing that this one insane person is by no means going to get the priviledge of changing it, or any other aspect of norwegian society, for the worse. I'm not proud to be norwegian (as it is not an accomplishment), but I am extremely happy about it, and I am happy that my fellow countrymen have responded in such a rational way despite the emotional turmoil, and I feel incredibly lucky to have been born here.
I guess this became long anyway. have a nice day.
lol POKER
1
Stroggoz New Zealand. Jul 27 2011 07:50. Posts 5365
I'm a big fan of Norways penal system. To me it is the only penal system i've seen that isn't retarded, i hope this guy gets rehabilitated.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
is there a moderate geert wilders character in Europe? one that does not put off a lot of people who somewhat agree with their logic?
i really agree with most of what he says, then he goes overboard with like shut down mosques etc and then im like wtf man, the whole fixing the double standard thing was great now you're spewing some radical bs that'll put off a ton of reasonable followers
On July 26 2011 05:22 Milk wrote:
The last pic is pretty true imo.
you can do that kind of childish correlations with anything. i can have picture of baal driving a car and sarcastically call him a hero (in the drivers world) and yet at same time call him greedy , wastefull human being, and blame the worlds dependence of oil on baal's habits and all "those type of people".
Yea real smart stuff.
that is at a terribly stupid straw man argument, your analogy would be absolutely idiotic while mine is quite precise.
Im making a point that people that kill others because their ignorant perception of enemies are monsters and never heroes, you are just making an absolute nonsensical idiotic comparison.
Seriously if you are not going to intelligently defend your points dont do it at all, you just clutter the thread with crap.
the more you write the more you expose your ignorance. You might write 'intelligently' or 'smart' but you lack real knowledge, and think every subject is the same and roots from the same thing, which in your case i call an ideal. You have yet to debate any subject with actual knowledge, just logical (or it seems to you at least) correlations. Your example was as dumb as my example, that's what the point was. Yes the world is rotten, yes people are hypocrits, yes people contradict themselves. Your not the first to come up with this. What are you going to do about it? spew your negative BS to people so they feel ashamed? Teach awareness using regret and shame? Look down on fellow humans? Your nothing more then a troll, ignorant troll.
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On July 26 2011 18:01 Liquid`Drone wrote:
if this had been an attack orchestrated by a muslim terrorist group then mentioning norway's involvement in afghanistan, iraq and libya would be prudent, and it would be a relevant discussion. but this is not related to that in any way whatsoever - ABB wanted to start a war, although on our own soil. there's no connection here, none. I don't really care about the jackassery of even bringing it up here, but you're just a broken record by now - not every damn indicent that happens on this planet is related to the horror of the state.
I wasnt ranting about the state but society, and yes violent incidents are related to a violent society.
You talked about the huge compassion and empathy of people bla bla, but then i said where were those people when Norway were killing people abroad?, didnt they condone that violence in those wars?, if they did, how can they act surprised when they condone the murder of thousands of innocents in foreign countries and get a few deaths caused by a violent maniac on their own country?
You said you are no nationalistic but somehow you seem more upset about the deaths of norweigans caused by one crazed man, thant he deaths of foreigners condoned by an entire nation, dont you see the hypocrisy?
this is stupid. you are grasping at straws because you decided to form an argument before you tried to understand what happened here, and then you are trying to find information that somehow fits into the argument you already tried to form, but you ignore any information to the contrary. I'd like to make a long post now, but I have to go to work soon so it will be brief.
1: if norway is a violent nation then every nation is a violent nation, and most nations would be significantly more violent than norway. the accurate description of norway, compared to the rest of the world, is "norway is a peaceful nation". this guy himself killed between 150 and 200% of the average murders per year in norway, and even doing a per-capita calculation leaves norway as one of the least "murderous" countries/societies on earth. also very low with regards to violent crime. according to your logic, we'd be seeing sprees like this regularly in all western countries, but we don't. massacres nowadays, actually tend to originate in say, mexico, or random african country - places where foreign policy is unimportant, where the state has lost control over the country, and at least with regards to random african countries, where they have not been guilty of any type of invasion of foreign countries.
2: norway donates more foreign aid per capita than virtually every other country in the world, and a bigger % of the GDP than every country cept denmark(last I checked at least.) you might state that foreign aid doesn't work, not gonna have that discussion, but foreign aid DOES show a caring mentality.
3: the previous time I participated in, or even witnessed, large scale demonstrations/political parades, was while we protested the iraq war. but we had a different government back then, which ignored that a large majority of the population was staunchly against the invasion. as for afghanistan, while I believe it was a stupid invasion, it was also legitimate. as for libya, our involvement has been rather small, but invading libya was a hasty decision which perhaps should not have been made.. it's fine to critisize these invasions, but the place and timing is just stupid. (although afghanistan and iraq have been debated to death and everyone agrees that iraq was retarded, that afghanistan is impossible to invade but that the reasons for invasion were legitimate, and with libya there's not really any consensus yet.)
4: I care more because I am more exposed to the horror. as you can imagine, the worst event to have happened in norway since world war two does indeed dominate the media. I don't intrinsicly place more value on a norwegian life than on a sudani life, but the closeness of the event, and the exposure I have to the personal destinies of people involved, getting to know how people who were killed were in real life, as well as the fact that I have had many friends and acquaintances present at this very camp in the past (but not this year to my knowledge), makes this more emotionally touching. additionally, if you look at amount of dead and compare it, per capita, to 9/11, then twice as big a percentage of norway's population was killed, than what the case was for usa and 9/11. I know that my brother knew many people who were there, and probably a couple people who were killed, as well. if I didn't respond emotionally to this, there'd be something seriously wrong with my brain.
5: I care more because this event will colour norwegian politics for the next decade - at least. so far, I am thoroughly impressed by the response, politicians are stating that our response to this will be more democracy, more tolerance, more openness (as these are ideas ABB hated), and that this event will not cause an upsurge in surveillance - some guy even stated that "people like anders breivik are not supposed to be detected". and as for your allegations that norway is a violent society, have you not seen the response to this? no norwegians are crying for blood here. people from other nations have been outraged by the idea that this guy is going to get 21 years (+ indefinite jailtime) in a comfy prison cell, norwegians are supportive of our humane prison system and arguing that this one insane person is by no means going to get the priviledge of changing it, or any other aspect of norwegian society, for the worse. I'm not proud to be norwegian (as it is not an accomplishment), but I am extremely happy about it, and I am happy that my fellow countrymen have responded in such a rational way despite the emotional turmoil, and I feel incredibly lucky to have been born here.
I guess this became long anyway. have a nice day.
how on earth do you keep missing the point over and over again man seriously.
Do you think that i am not aware that Norway is one of the best societies on the world? with actually very little violence in it?, (BTW charity donations arent that meaningful i mean USA is the country that donates the most and its the most violent first world country in the world).
To try to put this into perspective im ranting because it feels like people watching a war movie, and then a random dog dies... and the dogs death causes way more emotional shock than the death of a hundred men.
What im trying to say its that i find disturbing that society is horrified by one action yet totally apathetic about another very similar one, there is no difference between this guy and a soldier rolling a grenade into a house in the middle east, actually you are proof of what im saying when you talk about the war you talk about "oh iraq was retarded, afghanistan was ok... libya.. no consensus", i hope you can see in yourself how trivial you speak about those (much worse acts) than what this guy did... just think about it, think how desensitized you (and all of us) are to things we shouldnt be.
And indeed you are lucky of being born in what the best current example of society of our time but if even that society doest oppose attrocities (wars) and produces these kind of monsters then it should send chills down your spine to think what a society like the one i live in produces. (in before "it produces people like you" post )
On July 27 2011 06:50 Stroggoz wrote:
I'm a big fan of Norways penal system. To me it is the only penal system i've seen that isn't retarded, i hope this guy gets rehabilitated.
Agreed, its easy to confuse vengance with justice, and its very hard to quench the blood thirst of people when somebody does things like this, its a testament of temper.
Also morality apart it seems to be a way more effective method than the punishment/deter system by far.
On July 26 2011 05:22 Milk wrote:
The last pic is pretty true imo.
you can do that kind of childish correlations with anything. i can have picture of baal driving a car and sarcastically call him a hero (in the drivers world) and yet at same time call him greedy , wastefull human being, and blame the worlds dependence of oil on baal's habits and all "those type of people".
Yea real smart stuff.
that is at a terribly stupid straw man argument, your analogy would be absolutely idiotic while mine is quite precise.
Im making a point that people that kill others because their ignorant perception of enemies are monsters and never heroes, you are just making an absolute nonsensical idiotic comparison.
Seriously if you are not going to intelligently defend your points dont do it at all, you just clutter the thread with crap.
the more you write the more you expose your ignorance. You might write 'intelligently' or 'smart' but you lack real knowledge, and think every subject is the same and roots from the same thing, which in your case i call an ideal. You have yet to debate any subject with actual knowledge, just logical (or it seems to you at least) correlations. Your example was as dumb as my example, that's what the point was. Yes the world is rotten, yes people are hypocrits, yes people contradict themselves. Your not the first to come up with this. What are you going to do about it? spew your negative BS to people so they feel ashamed? Teach awareness using regret and shame? Look down on fellow humans? Your nothing more then a troll, ignorant troll.
There is no way in hell nobody with half a brain will call me ignorant, even if you strongly disagree with what i say.
Also i am not negative, i am a realist, actually an idealist... i point out to what is wrong in this world so we can change it, you wont ever change anything if you dont first realize its wrong, and maybe if we stop glorifying murder in wars and call soldiers for what they truly are, armies wont be as massive as they are today and we will live in a more peaceful future.
The only thing you got right is on looking down on fellow humans, i just find very hard to "forgive" others for not working on improving themselves and doing whats right, since it makes this world where i live in and its not easy for me to just ignore that and acknowledge nothing will significantly change in my life time, even if i know its the only way to go, that is my cross but thats another subject.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
1
NMcNasty United States. Jul 27 2011 13:51. Posts 2041
On July 27 2011 06:50 Stroggoz wrote:
I'm a big fan of Norways penal system. To me it is the only penal system i've seen that isn't retarded, i hope this guy gets rehabilitated.
I'm sure Norway's system is 10x better than the US system on average, but seriously you think 21 years is enough for him? He'll get out of prison at an age where he could easily commit acts like this again. It seems like people's lives are being unnecessarily risked as a result of faith in rehabilitation.
On July 27 2011 06:50 Stroggoz wrote:
I'm a big fan of Norways penal system. To me it is the only penal system i've seen that isn't retarded, i hope this guy gets rehabilitated.
I'm sure Norway's system is 10x better than the US system on average, but seriously you think 21 years is enough for him? He'll get out of prison at an age where he could easily commit acts like this again. It seems like people's lives are being unnecessarily risked as a result of faith in rehabilitation.
well, i guess i think that people should be in prison until they are rehabilitated. If we were sure this guy wasn't going to do anything harmful again after 6months, then releasing him after 6 months would be fine. If they cant ever be rehabilitated, then they should should be put on home detention after their prison sentence, or if they are too dangerous, kept in prison forever. To me it makes no sense that someone should stay for years after they have rehabilitated, because that just means as a society we judge which human beings should be punished and which shouldn't. When in fact we are very ignorant about the subject from what i've seen. I mean gays still get executed in saudi arabia for example, and pedo's, mass murdering politcians and sociopaths among heaps of other groups still suffer heaps of hate from the rest of society in the western world, this is one reason why they can't get along with society after they commit crimes and they hate police/authority so much imo. because people don't get them and treat them differently.
Anyway, if you want vengeance, the state shouldn't be the one to issue it. You yourself should be the one to issue it and take the consequences. Well, that is if i believed in vengeance, which i'm not sure if i do or not.
I reckon this guy should be made to live with muslims for a few years, american history x style rehabilitation lol.
oops i went a bit offtopic, anyway those are my extremist views, everyone is free to logically, or more importantly, illogically argue against them.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
1
traxamillion United States. Jul 27 2011 16:43. Posts 10468
this guy can't really be getting only 21 years. I disagree about jail for most things but when it comes to violent crimes some people need to be locked away/put down
1
sniderstyle United States. Jul 27 2011 17:23. Posts 2046
It's like a movie. The guy running the camera is a super hero. He's running through the hallways of a building that just blew up, looking to see if anyone is stuck inside. He's sprinting around and checking on people to see if they are okay. Everyone is in a panic. It's surreal to watch, incredible that it even exists.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
1
Surprise United States. Jul 27 2011 17:57. Posts 275
Great video snider, interesting to see inside a real crisis.
On July 27 2011 15:43 traxamillion wrote:
this guy can't really be getting only 21 years. I disagree about jail for most things but when it comes to violent crimes some people need to be locked away/put down
Norway's crime rate but mostly re-incidence rate should speak for itself, it is far smaller than in the United States.
21 years is a loooooong time, he will walk out as an old man, having experienced many things and in the proper enviroment, totally regretful and rehabilitated
Contact Users: 1309 Active, 2 Logged in - Time: 05:52
)
United States. Jul 27 2011 13:51. Posts 2041
,
,
,
,