Emelianenko one time ? - Page 7

On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix?

wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about.

well
at least people are spelling it jits instead of jitz

On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about.

Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

On July 26 2008 16:28 KeanuReaver wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 15:14 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 15:07 Daut wrote:   On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick. they fought twice you know... and i kind of like calling it jits :O have you read the post i was quoting? By the time they fought the second time Mirko was already an accomplished mma fighter. and bj isn't?

What does that have to do with anything!

On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

yea but mma bjj and competition bjj is a big difference.

i think most of us would agree that werdum has better bjj than nog but for mma nogs is better suited.

and just so you know fox is the biggest jacare nuthugger ever. i mean the straight bjj guys are really impressive in their grappling ability in fights (maia, jacare, etc) but bj has developed really really technically perfect mma bjj. he sets up takedowns so well with punches, he uses gnp while passing guard, and has the best mount position of anyone in mma, never goes for armbars or kimuras and sticks to taking back and winning fights with RNC over and over or finishing with strikes.

and i know im pulling a myth now, but kinda interested to see the manhoef vs jacare fight. its probably going to be really boring (either manhoef catches him and kos him or jacare gets it to the ground and its also over) but still going to be fun to see which one comes out on top. dont even know who else is left in the mw gp

On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

dude i mentioned maia... obviously i know people's resumes.. i probably know them better then everyone here except keanu.

and by your insane logic then bj being the first non brazilian to win a BJJ world championship should make him better then aoki? You can't have it both ways my friend

On July 26 2008 18:58 Daut wrote: and just so you know fox is the biggest jacare nuthugger ever. i mean the straight bjj guys are really impressive in their grappling ability in fights (maia, jacare, etc) but bj has developed really really technically perfect mma bjj. he sets up takedowns so well with punches, he uses gnp while passing guard, and has the best mount position of anyone in mma, never goes for armbars or kimuras and sticks to taking back and winning fights with RNC over and over or finishing with strikes.

true... although ... keanu is the biggest marcelo garcia nuthugger ever!!!!

On July 26 2008 18:51 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's. yea but mma bjj and competition bjj is a big difference. i think most of us would agree that werdum has better bjj than nog but for mma nogs is better suited.

agreed. in a bjj match werdum better but in mma nog is just better imo.

On July 26 2008 18:00 KeanuReaver wrote: well at least people are spelling it jits instead of jitz

the worst part about it is bjj is less characters then jits....

meh, i get the whole adaption thing
the reason why nog beat werdum is because nog is a much more well rounded mma fighter.
it happens all the time in mma too
when two fighters with similar styles fight it's often their secondary skills that determine who wins and is a major reason why when two standup fighters or two ground fighters fight, it's often the inferior one that wins.

nog is inferior to werdum on the ground, that's just how it is...but he's got much better standup and excellent judo so he's able to win.
when mirko first fought silva, silva was the inferior striker, but wandy's ground skills and his ability to keep mirko defensive lead to a draw that should probably have been a win for wandy
fast forward 4 years later, mirko is now more seasoned and able to nul wandy's secondary skills; result? wandy gets his shit pushed in. mirko didn't become a better striker, he was always better than wandy. he just got better at putting himself in position to use it.

my point being, an inferior will beat a superior because he's able to take advantage of other aspects of the fight. nog's standup, wandy's ground, etc. etc.
and that's the problem for aoki
not only is bj the superior grappler (everything aoki can do, bj can as well. bj is far superior to aoki in holding position and...perhaps my biggest praise in an mma thread ever...bj's squeeze is almost on the same level as marcelo garcia's) but bj beats aoki in everything else as well. of course aoki could win, but there's very little room to rationalize a win for him.

bj's ability to achieve dominant position on the ground is basically 2nd to none. he mounts, takes people's backs better then anyone in mma. I mean when i see gsp vs trigg i think to myself "pretty sure bj can do that to anyone at 155"

On July 26 2008 21:46 KeanuReaver wrote: meh, i get the whole adaption thing the reason why nog beat werdum is because nog is a much more well rounded mma fighter. it happens all the time in mma too when two fighters with similar styles fight it's often their secondary skills that determine who wins and is a major reason why when two standup fighters or two ground fighters fight, it's often the inferior one that wins. nog is inferior to werdum on the ground, that's just how it is...but he's got much better standup and excellent judo so he's able to win. when mirko first fought silva, silva was the inferior striker, but wandy's ground skills and his ability to keep mirko defensive lead to a draw that should probably have been a win for wandy fast forward 4 years later, mirko is now more seasoned and able to nul wandy's secondary skills; result? wandy gets his shit pushed in. mirko didn't become a better striker, he was always better than wandy. he just got better at putting himself in position to use it. my point being, an inferior will beat a superior because he's able to take advantage of other aspects of the fight. nog's standup, wandy's ground, etc. etc. and that's the problem for aoki not only is bj the superior grappler (everything aoki can do, bj can as well. bj is far superior to aoki in holding position and...perhaps my biggest praise in an mma thread ever...bj's squeeze is almost on the same level as marcelo garcia's) but bj beats aoki in everything else as well. of course aoki could win, but there's very little room to rationalize a win for him.

what we all thinking but cant quite say............

On July 26 2008 18:51 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's. yea but mma bjj and competition bjj is a big difference. i think most of us would agree that werdum has better bjj than nog but for mma nogs is better suited.

well personally by this point i got confused which sort of BJJ we were talking about.
Because unless someone mentions that theyre talking the MMA-jits(^_^) i assume were talking BJJ in general.

And when it comes to MMA-jits, Aoki is the best, unparalleled. Aoki uses BJJ to neutralize opponents striking, take them down, and submit em. That is unheard of MMA, nobody else does it.

BJ Penn isnt so good because his MMA-jits is good. Hes good because hes sort of a mini-Fedor, an all around fighter with good wrestling, striking and submission skills. Penn doesnt use BJJ to destroy his opponents, he utilizes wrestling and striking to setup his submissions.

On July 26 2008 19:56 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's. dude i mentioned maia... obviously i know people's resumes.. i probably know them better then everyone here except keanu.

Mentioning another UFC goldenboy in BJ Penn discussion doesnt really promt me to think you know people's resumes

and by your insane logic then bj being the first non brazilian to win a BJJ world championship should make him better then aoki? You can't have it both ways my friend

I thought u were talking about regular BJJ, ofc on paper Aoki sucks ass in that=P

On July 26 2008 21:46 KeanuReaver wrote: meh, i get the whole adaption thing the reason why nog beat werdum is because nog is a much more well rounded mma fighter. it happens all the time in mma too when two fighters with similar styles fight it's often their secondary skills that determine who wins and is a major reason why when two standup fighters or two ground fighters fight, it's often the inferior one that wins. nog is inferior to werdum on the ground, that's just how it is...but he's got much better standup and excellent judo so he's able to win. when mirko first fought silva, silva was the inferior striker, but wandy's ground skills and his ability to keep mirko defensive lead to a draw that should probably have been a win for wandy fast forward 4 years later, mirko is now more seasoned and able to nul wandy's secondary skills; result? wandy gets his shit pushed in. mirko didn't become a better striker, he was always better than wandy. he just got better at putting himself in position to use it. my point being, an inferior will beat a superior because he's able to take advantage of other aspects of the fight. nog's standup, wandy's ground, etc. etc. and that's the problem for aoki not only is bj the superior grappler (everything aoki can do, bj can as well. bj is far superior to aoki in holding position and...perhaps my biggest praise in an mma thread ever...bj's squeeze is almost on the same level as marcelo garcia's) but bj beats aoki in everything else as well. of course aoki could win, but there's very little room to rationalize a win for him.

I really dont see how one can claim with certainty that Penn's submission game is better then Aoki's, and the position point you mentioned, well Aoki is deadly in any position really.
I will reserve my final judgment and this argument for when this match finally comes to be. There can be little behind this other then speculation right now. Just remember ill be open for bets

On July 26 2008 18:59 Daut wrote: and i know im pulling a myth now, but kinda interested to see the manhoef vs jacare fight. its probably going to be really boring (either manhoef catches him and kos him or jacare gets it to the ground and its also over) but still going to be fun to see which one comes out on top. dont even know who else is left in the mw gp

Zelg Galesic and Gegard Mousasi are the other two left :C

On July 27 2008 03:04 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 21:46 KeanuReaver wrote: meh, i get the whole adaption thing the reason why nog beat werdum is because nog is a much more well rounded mma fighter. it happens all the time in mma too when two fighters with similar styles fight it's often their secondary skills that determine who wins and is a major reason why when two standup fighters or two ground fighters fight, it's often the inferior one that wins. nog is inferior to werdum on the ground, that's just how it is...but he's got much better standup and excellent judo so he's able to win. when mirko first fought silva, silva was the inferior striker, but wandy's ground skills and his ability to keep mirko defensive lead to a draw that should probably have been a win for wandy fast forward 4 years later, mirko is now more seasoned and able to nul wandy's secondary skills; result? wandy gets his shit pushed in. mirko didn't become a better striker, he was always better than wandy. he just got better at putting himself in position to use it. my point being, an inferior will beat a superior because he's able to take advantage of other aspects of the fight. nog's standup, wandy's ground, etc. etc. and that's the problem for aoki not only is bj the superior grappler (everything aoki can do, bj can as well. bj is far superior to aoki in holding position and...perhaps my biggest praise in an mma thread ever...bj's squeeze is almost on the same level as marcelo garcia's) but bj beats aoki in everything else as well. of course aoki could win, but there's very little room to rationalize a win for him. I really dont see how one can claim with certainty that Penn's submission game is better then Aoki's, and the position point you mentioned, well Aoki is deadly in any position really. I will reserve my final judgment and this argument for when this match finally comes to be. There can be little behind this other then speculation right now. Just remember ill be open for bets

aoki is just flashier.
its like saying one of the harlem globetrotters is a better basketball player than michael jordan.
actually no its like saying one of the harlem globetrotters can cut through a defense better than lebron james.

On July 27 2008 09:01 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 27 2008 03:04 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 21:46 KeanuReaver wrote: meh, i get the whole adaption thing the reason why nog beat werdum is because nog is a much more well rounded mma fighter. it happens all the time in mma too when two fighters with similar styles fight it's often their secondary skills that determine who wins and is a major reason why when two standup fighters or two ground fighters fight, it's often the inferior one that wins. nog is inferior to werdum on the ground, that's just how it is...but he's got much better standup and excellent judo so he's able to win. when mirko first fought silva, silva was the inferior striker, but wandy's ground skills and his ability to keep mirko defensive lead to a draw that should probably have been a win for wandy fast forward 4 years later, mirko is now more seasoned and able to nul wandy's secondary skills; result? wandy gets his shit pushed in. mirko didn't become a better striker, he was always better than wandy. he just got better at putting himself in position to use it. my point being, an inferior will beat a superior because he's able to take advantage of other aspects of the fight. nog's standup, wandy's ground, etc. etc. and that's the problem for aoki not only is bj the superior grappler (everything aoki can do, bj can as well. bj is far superior to aoki in holding position and...perhaps my biggest praise in an mma thread ever...bj's squeeze is almost on the same level as marcelo garcia's) but bj beats aoki in everything else as well. of course aoki could win, but there's very little room to rationalize a win for him. I really dont see how one can claim with certainty that Penn's submission game is better then Aoki's, and the position point you mentioned, well Aoki is deadly in any position really. I will reserve my final judgment and this argument for when this match finally comes to be. There can be little behind this other then speculation right now. Just remember ill be open for bets aoki is just flashier. its like saying one of the harlem globetrotters is a better basketball player than michael jordan. actually no its like saying one of the harlem globetrotters can cut through a defense better than lebron james.

this is a good point.

aoki is like an and1 player and bj is like kobe.

now the skill differences are MUCH closer.... but an and1 player can SEEM to be better then an nba player when he's not. Aoki is way way way way closer to bj then an and1 player is to nba... but this is a good example.