Emelianenko one time ?

Can we talk about annihilation here ? 36 secs JEEZUS CHRIST WTF ?

not much to say, hes just sicker than everyone else and hopefully we can see him against Randy soon, but I don't give Randy much of a chance in that fight

rumor is his next opponent is arvloski.

Josh Barnett Would be a better fighter =[

for fedor, training to punch high is not difficult

Randy cannot do shit against Fedor simply because Randy's syle is to user the clinch and wear down superior strikers like he did with Belfotr or with Gonzaga, he knew he couldnt fight stand up against them so he wore them down, the thing is, obviously Fedor is a superior striker but he wont be able to clinch him to exhaustion because Fedor will take the fight to the ground where Randy has no chance at all.

fedor will demolish randy and make him a full time commentator, that's why i think this match has taken too long coz randy prolly wants to get paid big time for this more so than fedor imo. no one armbars and makes GOD tap out, and i mean no one. rematch will be the same in case it happens imo.

IMO Randy knows he cannot beat Fedor so he is trying to hype this shit too much to get max money before he retires, imo Randy isnt nearly as good as people think he is, he is a very smart fighter and developed a good style to neutralize superior strikers, if RAndy brawls against Gonzaga he would be destroyed and it was clear in that match that when they started exchanging punches Randy got noodle legs.

On July 23 2008 15:43 Stim_Abuser wrote: rumor is his next victim is arvloski.

On July 24 2008 04:56 quipsta wrote: not

quality 5th post

On July 24 2008 05:46 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 04:56 quipsta wrote: not quality 5th post

post count = penis size obv

I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters.

Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing.

im pretty sure Fedor could kill the entire lightweight division in about 18mins

On July 24 2008 07:57 John Galt wrote: im pretty sure Fedor could kill the entire lightweight division in about 18mins

Well I was talking in a relative, pound for pound sense. Like if you shrunk Fedor down so he weighed in at either lightweight or middleweight, and he was the exact same in terms of preportions but just magically shrunk, he would get demolished by anyone in the top 3-5 of either division.

On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing.

Are you out of your mind? do you ever watch MMA? You think the 70kg weight division is somehow much sicker? lol... if you atleast said that the light heavy weight had tougher fighters then we could have a discussion but what u said is plain silly.

ya shrunken fedor would suck???? apples and oranges imo

so when is fedor fighting his next victim?

On July 24 2008 08:12 masterfrywad wrote: ya shrunken fedor would suck???? apples and oranges imo

No, because it's currently apples and oranges. But if you could somehow shrink Fedor down with some futuristic laser or something so that he retained his proportions but was able to fit in a lower weight class, he'd get demolished by someone like BJ Penn or Anderson Silva or even someone like Tyson Griffin. And if he was shrunk it'd be apples to apples.

HW division is just currently weak right now and Fedor gets to appear great beating 'contenders' like Sylvia. I say in 3-4 years there will be significantly better HW guys but not as significantly better LW or MW guys.

On July 24 2008 08:10 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing. Are you out of your mind? do you ever watch MMA? You think the 70kg weight division is somehow much sicker? lol... if you atleast said that the light heavy weight had tougher fighters then we could have a discussion but what u said is plain silly.

No wat you said is just plain silly.

Wow for the first time i have to agree with Baal ... I feel sick to my stomach

you're not really making a case for fedor being overrated and HW sucking in general. you're just keep saying it.

On July 24 2008 08:49 masterfrywad wrote: you're not really making a case for fedor being overrated and HW sucking in general. you're just keep saying it.

Well same for the opposite case. It's hard to see how good the division itself is without respect to a longer period of time. It will be easy to see in 3-4 years, not so much in how Fedor does but in how much the HW division improves relative to other divisions in that same time frame. I think the HW division will see a much larger improvement relative to say the MW or LW divisions in the next 3-4 years, meaning that it is currently weak.

But yeah it's just my call right now, but then Fedor being amazing is also just someone else's call. To say he's great you have to say he beats other great fighters, and to do that you have to establish that, which is just as hard as establishing that they are not great without any external time frame being able to act as a reference. In other words, you can say Fedor is great cuz he dismantled Sylvia and Cro Cop and the rest and they are great fighters, but you can also say Fedor is overrated because he beats fighters that themselves are overrated, like Sylva and Cro Cop. And if all the fighters are overrated then the entire division is itself overrated, which is my position.

On July 24 2008 08:47 Sheitan wrote: Wow for the first time i have to agree with Baal ... I feel sick to my stomach

Don't open a book on the Holocaust then if this topic causes stomach problems.

On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing.

just fucking wow! do you think Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan are/were overrated too?

fighters will go their entire careers beating half as many "great" fighters as fedor and still be considered legends...much less doing so as impressively as fedor and without a single legit loss.

to say fedor is overrated is just...ridiculous.

Fedor is just way better than everyone else at HW. just cause he looks weird and unathletic doesn't mean hes not that good. maybe you haven't seen enough of his fights, but his striking is devastating, not quite at an anderson silva level imo, but I don't know of anyone else better. His wrestling skills are very good, if you saw him vs big nog you can see how easily he takes down big strong skilled opponents. His ground and pound is unmatched, and hes good from the bottom. Overall hes extremely agile for his size. I'm not sure where u see a weakness in his game.

Tyson griffin > fedor? rofl. pound for pound you can argue a few guys could be better, the spider, gsp and bj penn, but thats about it.

kid is #1 on my p4p list until:

bj penn beats anderson silva, or
gsp beats rampage, or
a. silva beats fedor, or
fedor beats a grizzly bear

On July 24 2008 08:10 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing. Are you out of your mind? do you ever watch MMA? You think the 70kg weight division is somehow much sicker? lol... if you atleast said that the light heavy weight had tougher fighters then we could have a discussion but what u said is plain silly.

u don't think welterweight is tough?
GSP
Fitch
Thiago Alves
kos
Hughes
Karo Parisian
Diego
Jake Shields

Maybe 205 is tougher, but 170 is no joke.

also worth noting almost all of that talent is concentrated into one single promotion. the opposite would be the 155 division which is imo the best division in all of mma but the talent is spread out all over the place.

On July 24 2008 14:17 KeanuReaver wrote: kid is #1 on my p4p list until: bj penn beats anderson silva, or gsp beats rampage, or a. silva beats fedor, or fedor beats a grizzly bear

what if a grizzly bear beats an elephant?

imo kid > elephant

what does fedor weigh in at? any chance he could make 205?
has alves earned a title shot or does he have to fight kos for it?
when is kid v faber gonna happen?

hey
someone lemme in on where a good place to watch these fights online is?
I wanna get up to speed on this stuff
I've not really watched any of this since UFC started having weight divisions

yes that long ago

saying fedor is overrated is like saying the sun is overrated.

keep in mind fedor is like 225-230 pounds. most 205 pounders weigh that much if not more than him when they enter their camps, walk into the ring at almost that weight. in fact, many 185 pounders are doing that too. it's not entirely unfair for fedor to fight anyone in the 205 or 185 division. none of those people would fucking dare even try, though.

Fedor could make 205 or 185. however, I (personally) think the fact that he doesn't cut weight is part of why it makes him so great and that cutting weight is bad for many fighters and TERRIBLE for the sport.

On _JULY 24 2008 09:38 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 08:47 Sheitan wrote: Wow for the first time i have to agree with Baal ... I feel sick to my stomach Don't open a book on the Holocaust then if this topic causes stomach problems.

Care to explain what a Lololcaust is ? Sounds funny

stop with this p4p kid shit. hes a fucking can crusher. let me see him fight faber/pulver etc then we will talk. till then no one knows.


second you cant put anyone ahead of fedor on any list period.

gsp? questionable heart, doesnt have the best of chin. all hes done is dominate one dimensional wrestlers with his superior wrestling and size. gtfo out.

bj penn? only one close to fedor in terms of skill but he hasnt show the dominance fedor has and we've seen bj quit and look unimpressive many times. even against a rematch with a natural 145ers caol uno and first match with jens pulver.

anderson silva? no. although a great fighter i see weakness. hes been dominated in the past by lesser fighters.

fedor p4p # 1 easy gtfo.

On July 24 2008 15:16 mockturtle wrote: saying fedor is overrated is like saying the sun is overrated. keep in mind fedor is like 225-230 pounds. most 205 pounders weigh that much if not more than him when they enter their camps, walk into the ring at almost that weight. in fact, many 185 pounders are doing that too. it's not entirely unfair for fedor to fight anyone in the 205 or 185 division. none of those people would fucking dare even try, though. Fedor could make 205 or 185. however, I (personally) think the fact that he doesn't cut weight is part of why it makes him so great and that cutting weight is bad for many fighters and TERRIBLE for the sport.

also this. fedor could EASILY diet and make 205 and absolutely demolish that division. but fedor doesnt really seem to care about rankings and all that. so i doubt he does it.

fedor is kinda short and heavy so yeah he's kinda overrated slaying all those titans who are like 1 feet taller than him most fights

also fedor ground strikes in the guard are the most lethal ones ive seen. he went toe to toe with crocop in standup and dominated him, went mostly ground with minotauro on the ground and just demolished him twice, i mean ffs saying he's overrated is like saying muhamad ali is just lucky he didnt fight sugar ray leonard or roberto duran's weight class which was really really tough.

On July 24 2008 09:32 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 08:49 masterfrywad wrote: you're not really making a case for fedor being overrated and HW sucking in general. you're just keep saying it. Well same for the opposite case. It's hard to see how good the division itself is without respect to a longer period of time. It will be easy to see in 3-4 years, not so much in how Fedor does but in how much the HW division improves relative to other divisions in that same time frame. I think the HW division will see a much larger improvement relative to say the MW or LW divisions in the next 3-4 years, meaning that it is currently weak. But yeah it's just my call right now, but then Fedor being amazing is also just someone else's call. To say he's great you have to say he beats other great fighters, and to do that you have to establish that, which is just as hard as establishing that they are not great without any external time frame being able to act as a reference. In other words, you can say Fedor is great cuz he dismantled Sylvia and Cro Cop and the rest and they are great fighters, but you can also say Fedor is overrated because he beats fighters that themselves are overrated, like Sylva and Cro Cop. And if all the fighters are overrated then the entire division is itself overrated, which is my position.

WOW. OK you must be a really terrible poker player to think that an entire division of worldclass fighters just happens to be overrated and bad. Think of how statistically rediculous that is. Lets assume that the entire division really was overrated and crocop, fedor, sylvia, randlman, blah blah blah, are all bad but LOOK GOOD cuz their fighting each other. Now lets say at any time in this last 5 years 1 "actual good", "non overrated" guy stepped into the ring. Based off of your argument he would have already beaten all of these other fighters, including Fedor. I guess instead of that happening we just have a bunch of bad fighters who are extremely lucky to be at their prime at a time when the entire world only composes of solid lightweights and bad HW's.

rofl at bigbb33.

oh my gawd.

On July 24 2008 08:23 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 08:12 masterfrywad wrote: ya shrunken fedor would suck???? apples and oranges imo No, because it's currently apples and oranges. But if you could somehow shrink Fedor down with some futuristic laser or something so that he retained his proportions but was able to fit in a lower weight class, he'd get demolished by someone like BJ Penn or Anderson Silva or even someone like Tyson Griffin. And if he was shrunk it'd be apples to apples. HW division is just currently weak right now and Fedor gets to appear great beating 'contenders' like Sylvia. I say in 3-4 years there will be significantly better HW guys but not as significantly better LW or MW guys.

Anderson Silva? Anderson Silva?
Anderson Silva is significantly larger then Fedor is, Fedor just isnt scared to fight at his natural weight class. Silva walks at around 210 pounds, and i bet its more then Fedor's lean body weight is. Silva just cuts well.
Not to mention Silvas division. The only legit opponent Silva ever faced was Henderson. Granted he destroyed him in a way no one did before, but that doesnt justify even half of the hype hes getting. To quote FA "go lose to Ryo Chonnan some more."

And LW is surely the most skilled division in the world. Not in the UFC however. I honestly believe Aoki would embarrass Penn on the ground. And what has Penn done to claim that hes better then Fedor? Beaten the Lay-n-Pray specialist Sherk? Comeon.

No one does what Fedor does. He outstrikes strikers, escapes submission specialists and outwrestles wrestlers.

Bigbb, you seem to be forgetting the fact that he DESTROYED Nogueira.

Twice.

On July 24 2008 14:17 KeanuReaver wrote: kid is #1 on my p4p list until: bj penn beats anderson silva, or gsp beats rampage, or a. silva beats fedor, or fedor beats a grizzly bear

Fedor vs grizzly bear is v close.

Btw, even though I'd cheer for Kid vs Faber, the super early stoppage in Kid vs Sudo still irks me

As for Aoki v Penn, maybe, but.. could Aoki get Penn down? Like, yeah, Aoki is tall as hell for a LW (he's 180 cm for crying out loud) but still.

* Dream 5 related*
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 24 2008 14:22 Fraser wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 08:10 Baal wrote:   On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing. Are you out of your mind? do you ever watch MMA? You think the 70kg weight division is somehow much sicker? lol... if you atleast said that the light heavy weight had tougher fighters then we could have a discussion but what u said is plain silly. u don't think welterweight is tough? GSP Fitch Thiago Alves kos Hughes Karo Parisian Diego Jake Shields Maybe 205 is tougher, but 170 is no joke.

No, i believe welther is tought, thats why i focused on light weight which imo its quite soft. (bigbb33 said Ligh and welter), however i believe light weight is tougher, like Wandy in Pride fighting sakuraba, Erenesto Hoost, rampage, etc etc.

Also as somebody said, Fedor is a small guy for heavyweight as u can see he fights bigger oponents always its simply because he doesnt cut weight, he doesnt even look defined (which happens when u cut weight), if he wanted he could fight in smaller divisions with his same strenght and he obviuosly would demolish every single one, BigBB33 simply isnt a big MMA fan becaus he doesnt know much.

On July 24 2008 18:19 TianYuan wrote: Btw, even though I'd cheer for Kid vs Faber, the super early stoppage in Kid vs Sudo still irks me As for Aoki v Penn, maybe, but.. could Aoki get Penn down? Like, yeah, Aoki is tall as hell for a LW (he's 180 cm for crying out loud) but still. * Dream 5 related* + Show Spoiler + Eddie Alvarez is a fucking champion btw, can't wait for him vs Hansen rematch, only seen 3 of Alvarez's fights but wow

Well aoki doesnt actually have to be down to submit u.

And Alvarez vs Aoki is much more interesting for me then Alvarez vs Hansen. MMAth doesnt work so i wanna after all find out if he would win that GP or not.

just because a guy isn't #1 doesn't mean you have to hate him.

Fedor is, without a doubt, an amazing fighter. Unlike other fighters, fedor has only showed GLIMMERS of vulnerability which he usually turned right around and ended the fight within moments afterward (big punch from tko, slam from randleman, keylock from mark hunt). Anderson Silva does, perhaps, have some untested facets of his game. Don't hate on the guy because he might have a weaker than perfect ground game and he cuts weight. And don't say GSP "lacks chin" because he got hit in the face and was hurt. Newsflash: it does not take a lot to get knocked out in MMA. You're fighting professional athletes who are strong, fast, and actually train how to throw a punch. If you get clocked and any of several situations go bad, you're going to be stunned or knocked out. Period. The concept of a chin comes from boxing, when because of the massive gloves they wear it's very hard to be knocked out without being buttered up first (the glove disperses force across a wider area). In MMA if you catch a good shot you didn't see coming, you're going to get stunned or knocked out. If you catch a clean shot in the wrong place on your skull, you're going to get stunned or knocked out. Peeeeeriod.

aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years.

hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns.

this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight.

At this point I don't see anyone on the same level as Fedor. Atm the toughest fight out there would be Barnett by a long shot, I think with his catch wrestling he could possibly get Fedor into a slick knee bar, or open up a cut for the stoppage with Fedor's tinfoil skin. AA will be a good fight but it will end with a rather quick from strikes either standing or from AA's guard. AA's chin has failed him before and the way Fedor gets those full body shots in from the guard he could get the KO.

It's a shame that Fedor has stated countless times that he's never cut weight for a fight and never will, he generally enters around 230 which is what most LHWs walk around at so he could easily make the cut if he wanted, would be many interesting match ups for him.

Couture was never a top 3 to begin with, and the fight will in all likelihood never happen. Was just a way to keep Couture's name in the papers while he tried to get his movie career going, however he is a terrible actor and it's going no where.

and fedor is the best fighter in the history of mma (not counting kid because its just impossible to tell how good he really is). hes never lost and hes beaten virtually everyone in his division with the exception of a few guys he would probably destroy (maybe not AA who has a pretty good shot at beating him, on the order of 20-25%)

On July 25 2008 00:27 Daut wrote: and fedor is the best fighter in the history of mma (not counting kid because its just impossible to tell how good he really is). hes never lost and hes beaten virtually everyone in his division with the exception of a few guys he would probably destroy (maybe not AA who has a pretty good shot at beating him, on the order of 20-25%)

I'll give you 5 to 1 odds on Fedor wrecking AA if you really feel that way.

yea ill take it with the possibility of a knockout or stoppage due to cut i think 5:1 is def worth betting on

if fedor didnt cut or if it wasnt possible to stop the fight cause of a cut i think the true odds would be higher (like 85% win for fedor) but you never know in mma, random shit happens all the time

so how much we betting?

andre arlovski beating fedor? LOL
penn is really my 2nd fave all time

On July 25 2008 00:23 Daut wrote: aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years. hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns. this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight.

You know what I was really surprised by tho? How easily Aoki got Uno to the ground. I thought Uno's takedown defence looked REALLY good vs Ishida, a little Penn like if you will
But yeah, Uno - despite having a draw vs Penn - isn't the same thing as actually fighting Penn hehe..

Btw if you like Aoki you really should check out Masakazu Imanari. I think they train together, but I like his submission-entrances more (ie his crazy dives into leglocks :D).

Blah blah blah, maybe if you repeat how much you are in love with Fedor some more it will be a convincing argument. As stated before, there is no way to prove/disprove what I said except by waiting and see the rate of skill increase in the HW relative to skill increase in other divisions.

Queue more frothing at the mouth ad hominem's tho.

On July 24 2008 18:32 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On July 24 2008 14:22 Fraser wrote:   On July 24 2008 08:10 Baal wrote:   On July 24 2008 07:54 bigbb33 wrote: I still think Fedor is way overrated; I always thought Sylvia sucked too. Don't really know who is good in the HW division though, they all seem to suck, unlike welterweight or lightweight which are completely stacked with sick fighters. Thinking over it I'd say Fedor is def. the best in the HW division, but overall the division just sucks more so than Fedor being amazing. Are you out of your mind? do you ever watch MMA? You think the 70kg weight division is somehow much sicker? lol... if you atleast said that the light heavy weight had tougher fighters then we could have a discussion but what u said is plain silly. u don't think welterweight is tough? GSP Fitch Thiago Alves kos Hughes Karo Parisian Diego Jake Shields Maybe 205 is tougher, but 170 is no joke. No, i believe welther is tought, thats why i focused on light weight which imo its quite soft. (bigbb33 said Ligh and welter), however i believe light weight is tougher, like Wandy in Pride fighting sakuraba, Erenesto Hoost, rampage, etc etc. Also as somebody said, Fedor is a small guy for heavyweight as u can see he fights bigger oponents always its simply because he doesnt cut weight, he doesnt even look defined (which happens when u cut weight), if he wanted he could fight in smaller divisions with his same strenght and he obviuosly would demolish every single one, BigBB33 simply isnt a big MMA fan becaus he doesnt know much.

Rampage doesn't fight in lightweight, neither do Hoost or any others you mentioned.

Oh and Fedor wrecking Nogeira bumps him up, had forgotten that. Still say the HW division is at a relative lull in terms of skill tho, and fedor therefore overrated.

Ok well let's move this to a more practical argument: You guys think if Fedor cut down to 205 he'd beat Silva? I think Silva would destroy Fedor at 205.

Adding this as you guys are saying Fedor could make 205 ez if he cared to.

There are some really retarded statements in this thread jesus...

most of them have to do with people actually saying fedor isn't the best. he's either the best or he's tied.

bigbb33, are you serious? are you saying that A Silva would beat Fedor at 205? A Silva walks around at 220 pounds and cuts to 185 beacuse he would get destroyed if he fought at heavyweight, while Fedor walks around at 230 and doesn't cut cause he's good enough to beat the heavyweights.

Fedor is def the greatest fighter ever

I think it's obvious that fighting in the heavyweight division is very different than fightin in the middleweight division. You can't compare that shit, it's just stupid. Divisions require different set of skills.

On July 25 2008 07:07 nicksson wrote: bigbb33, are you serious? are you saying that A Silva would beat Fedor at 205? A Silva walks around at 220 pounds and cuts to 185 beacuse he would get destroyed if he fought at heavyweight, while Fedor walks around at 230 and doesn't cut cause he's good enough to beat the heavyweights. Fedor is def the greatest fighter ever

Ya I'm serious.

5:1 is a dumb bet (for the guy paying 500%) not even the betting sites would give those odds, since they gave 4:1 to sylvia

bigbb33 consider this:

in his last 19 fights fedor is 18-0 with 1 no contest. of the 18 wins 15 have been fights he has FINISHED in the first or early 2nd round. the other 3 were unanimous decisions where he dominated crocop once and big nog twice. some of the guys he finished are really good fighters, like heath herring, tim sylvia, kevin randleman, and mark hunt. i didnt even list some of the guys he just stomped like gary goodridge and mark coleman, or guys like fujita who have some impressive wins under their belt.

before those fights he had never lost either except an accidental cut (from an illegal elbow mind you) 17 seconds into a fight in a tournament that needed a victor, and he had beaten some really good fighters like semmy schilt, arona and babalu.

saying fedor isnt the best in the world because you think anderson silva (who mind you fights in probably the weakest division of the sport) would beat him is ludicrous. OMG HE BEAT DAN HENDERSON (who gasses hard at 185 and is really a natural 205) RICH FRANKLIN AND TRAVIS LUTTER OMG OGMOGMOGMOGMOG. wow sick resume dude. everytime silva has gotten into trouble he has lost. everytime fedor has gotten into trouble he doesnt just somehow eek out a victory, he DESTROYS the guy.

you provide no argument except your probably wrong opinion that mini fedor would lose to other fighters. and honestly you wouldnt even have to shrink fedor to make him fight at 205 or maybe even 185. but he doesnt want to cut because he doesnt need to avoid the stronger guys above 205.

On July 25 2008 09:54 Daut wrote: bigbb33 consider this: in his last 19 fights fedor is 18-0 with 1 no contest. of the 18 wins 15 have been fights he has FINISHED in the first or early 2nd round. the other 3 were unanimous decisions where he dominated crocop once and big nog twice. some of the guys he finished are really good fighters, like heath herring, tim sylvia, kevin randleman, and mark hunt. i didnt even list some of the guys he just stomped like gary goodridge and mark coleman, or guys like fujita who have some impressive wins under their belt. saying fedor isnt the best in the world because you think anderson silva (who mind you fights in probably the weakest division of the sport) would beat him is ludicrous. OMG HE BEAT DAN HENDERSON RICH FRANKLIN AND TRAVIS LUTTER OMG OGMOGMOGMOGMOG. wow sick resume dude. you provide no argument except your probably wrong opinion that mini fedor would lose to other fighters. and honestly you wouldnt even have to shrink fedor to make him fight at 205 or maybe even 185. but he doesnt want to cut because he doesnt need to avoid the stronger guys above 205.

Records, in terms of being unbeaten etc don't have as much weight as you are giving them: Diego Sanchez was 14-0 or something at one point, but he's not even in the top 3 in his division.

I'm not saying Fedor isn't the best in the world pound for pound based on my belief that Silva could beat him. My thought process before first posting in this thread was "Okay Fedor beat Silvia: Silvia is a flatfooted wildebeast with no movement, gj Fedor". I thought about who Fedor could face to actually prove something for once (Fedor has always been criticized as building his record vs relatively questionable opponents), but couldn't think of any really good HW fighter, compared to something like the Lightweight or Welterweight which is stacked with tons of skilled guys who all have a shot at beating the champ, ie BJ Penn/St Pierre/there's a list above. From that I concluded that the HW division is itself in a relative lull in terms of skill, and from that Fedor's skill is overhyped. The idea of a 'mini Fedor' is a way to think of the best pound for pound fighters: obv I think that Fedor would demolish St Pierre at their current weights, but shrink Fedor down with a magic laser so that he could retain his proportions but fit into the Welterweight and St Pierre would wreck him, and therefore St Pierre is better pound for pound.

And you provide no argument yourself, except for pointing to an undefeated record which as I stated above doesn't mean that much as there are examples of fighters with great records too who aren't as great as their records indicated. This entire 'debate' can be summed up as that neither side has arguments, just opinions: I think Fedor is overrated due to fighting in a division that is temporarily weak due to whatever random reasons, others think Fedor is the Messiah who shits rainbows and gets blowjobs on command from Chuck Norris. There is no way to settle this beyond waiting: if the HW division's rate of skill improvement is larger than that of other divisions over the next couple of years, then we can say that the HW division is right now weaker relative to what it should be and what other divisions are. That's going to take time, obviously, and right now we are left with opinions, and people thinking that if they yell their copy-pasted-from-sherdog views loud enough they'll be considered right.

no argument? he finishes every fight and has beaten the best fighters and comes back when behind to win very convincingly instead of losing. thats no argument besides record? what the f are you smoking =[


and i disagree. you could argue that 170 is weak. kos was 1 dimensional forever, diego is a record builder, fitch hasnt really fought anyone that good, hughes was over the hill, serra isnt that good. see what im doing?

On July 25 2008 10:12 Daut wrote: no argument? he finishes every fight and has beaten the best fighters. thats no argument besides record? what the f are you smoking =[ and i disagree. you could argue that 170 is weak. kos was 1 dimensional forever, diego is a record builder, fitch hasnt really fought anyone that good, hughes was over the hill, serra isnt that good. see what im doing?

Yeah but you are assuming that the best fighters are actually great too: note that my argument that Fedor is overrated came from the premise that the HW division is itself in a relative lull, so saying he beat some guys in that division who were amazing is only a good argument if you can justify that those beaten guys were amazing. That's what I disagree with.

But yeah you can argue a lot of things. We are arguing different sides with no effective way of coming to a verifiable conclusion with who is right without letting a long time pass and seeing the results.

your argument is mainly based on the fact that you think the HW division is weak but most people seem to think 185 is the weakest division in the sport.

My point of view is kinda like this:

Say you have 4 different divisions of chess players, 10 players to a division. Player skill is rated with the ELO rating system.

Division 1 through 3 has the top 30 chessplayers in the world randomly split up into them. Division 4 has a group of 12 year olds with one player who is 22 years old and ranked 70th in the world. If each player plays 100 games, and they only play against players in their division, their ELO rating will reflect their skill as variance is evened out over the sample. You are going to find comparable absolute ELO numbers in each group. The 70th ranked player in the world, who is in the 12 year old division, is going to have a very high ELO rating of all the players in any division. From that can we conclude that the 70th ranked player in the world is in fact the best player of all the divisions? He has the highest ELO. Obviously I gave you the info at the start so you know his division is ridic. weak compared to other divisions, so no we can't conclude that. His rating is not an absolute reflection of his skill but rather a reflection of his skill relative to his divisional opponents. In order to establish his skill, you first have to establish his divisional opponents skill.

Obviously this is an analogy, and Fedor is the 70th ranked player in the world and the division stacked with 12 year olds is the HW division. The ELO rating corresponds to a fighters record. Obviously there's a ridic. amount of hyperbole being used, but that's to get the point across. Using the analogy, what if we don't know the absolute skill of each player in each division? What if it was a random draw, that just happened to create such a lopsided mix? What if the 12 year olds weren't so visually obviously weak players? That's kind of where we are with the HW division relative to other divsions. We don't know. I'm saying that the HW division IS at a relative lull right now due to whatever reasons, and from that it's best fighter is therefore also overrated. And that's Fedor. As stated there's no real way to objectively conclude who is right without waiting and seeing the relative skill improvements: think back to the chess analogy, as players come and go the weak division will increase in skill much faster relative to the other divisions, and so we could conclude that it was at a relative lull in skill and therefore it's best player was overrated. Or that could not happen and it could turn out that that division was as distributed in skill as the other divisions. Time will tell with respect to MMA.

On July 25 2008 10:23 Daut wrote: your argument is mainly based on the fact that you think the HW division is weak but most people seem to think 185 is the weakest division in the sport.

Most people voted for George W. Bush. Twice.

Also I used Welterweight/Lightweight as my divisions that I said were relatively higher in skill than Heavyweight. Anderson Silva came up as another, somewhat related topic.

the strength of the 185 division is basically the only thing that matters here since you are comparing fedor to anderson silva.

anderson silva has beaten up on weak 185s, a guy who moved down to 185 from 205 and wasnt 100% and beat up a not even top 10 205. wow. i claim in his actual size division (considering he is bigger than most of the 205s to begin with) he would lose to machida, shogun at top form, rampage, wandy, liddell, forrest and henderson at his natural weight. hes just benefiting from fighting weaker fighters at the weakest division and getting lucky to face guys out of their comfort zone.

On July 25 2008 10:43 Daut wrote: the strength of the 185 division is basically the only thing that matters here since you are comparing fedor to anderson silva. anderson silva has beaten up on weak 185s, a guy who moved down to 185 from 205 and wasnt 100% and beat up a not even top 10 205. wow. i claim in his actual size division (considering he is bigger than most of the 205s to begin with) he would lose to machida, shogun at top form, rampage, wandy, liddell, forrest and henderson at his natural weight. hes just benefiting from fighting weaker fighters at the weakest division and getting lucky to face guys out of their comfort zone.

Well there are two different but somewhat related positions I've taken in this thread: the first that Fedor is overrated as a pound for pound fighter due to fighting in a relatively weak HW division, and the second that Silva would beat Fedor at 205.

What do you mean weakest division? He cleaned up MW and is now fighting at LHW, where he just first punch KO'd (essentially a KO) his first opponent. This is the second division he's fighting in. He's grown as a fighter and we'll see how he does at 205: my contention is obviously that he'll own it, yours that he's overrated and has to fight lower to win. Your argument really doesn't make sense: you are saying Silva would lose a hypothetical fight because he'd also lose hypothetical fights? That's no better than the opposite argument, that he'd win a hypothetical fight vs Fedor because he'd win hypothetical fights vs Forrest and the rest of LHW.

who says i was arguing what he would do vs fedor, why are you making all these logical jumps in my argument and making stuff up and taking out stuff i say?

you are being really stubborn/retarded and you are basically just saying something that is totally exaggerated. everyone understands your point but you are doing a horrible job of presenting it and out of spite just exagerrating your argument to try to piss people off.

i obviously think anderson silva is very good but im just doing the same exact thing you are with fedor. you can say any division sucks and that we will see in the future in some ominous tone indicating how you think it will improve greatly in years to come. you started this whole mess then when people say they dont agree with you you are the one who tells them they have no argument. its pretty ridiculous

On July 25 2008 05:32 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 00:23 Daut wrote: aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years. hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns. this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight. You know what I was really surprised by tho? How easily Aoki got Uno to the ground. I thought Uno's takedown defence looked REALLY good vs Ishida, a little Penn like if you will But yeah, Uno - despite having a draw vs Penn - isn't the same thing as actually fighting Penn hehe.. Btw if you like Aoki you really should check out Masakazu Imanari. I think they train together, but I like his submission-entrances more (ie his crazy dives into leglocks :D).

dont let fox see you wrote this he will go on a tirade about how imanari is the devil

ive actually showed this to some people involved in MMA and they just laughed at how stupid bigbb33 is.

but are you really stupid enough to defend an argument for 4 pages based around the premise that fedor would need to be shrunken down with a laser to miniature size?

WAIT you say.. ITS MORE THAN THAT ... no it really isn't

he will never be that small, he is the most dominant fighter in his weight class and there is no one as dominant in any other weight class. thats really all there is to it especially if you abide by the thought process that different weight classes put more emphasis on different skills. so maybe you put value on something that a heavyweight fan wouldn't and vice versa. but theres no one good in the heavyweights says bigbb33!!!!!! how the fuck do you know, all your arguments are moot because you are comparing apples and oranges.

you are similar to some crazed baseball fan arguing:
FUCKIN BABE RUTH WOULD HIT A BASEBALL 500 FT OFF JOEL ZUMAYA WHO THROWS 103 well go get your time machine and find out

i'm gonna start a boxing thread so you can advocate going back in time, time warping a muhammad ali in his prime to oscar de la hoya's prime and then laser beam shrinking him to fight oscar all the while during the fight you tell everyone how muhammad ali really isn't that good compared to the little guys in the skill dept.

wtf are you trying to argue again?


oh yea... laser beams...


what if you took your magical laser beam, which at this point i bet you think it exists, and asked st. pierre if he wanted to be morphed into a 230 heavy weight and fight fedor? what do you think he would say?


by this time i hope you start to see how ludicrous your statements are

LP needs an ignore user feature, id snap apply in this instance

its definitely possible that fedor isnt the best overall p4p fighter. it could be the case that bj, gsp and anderson are all better than him and hes 4th best. it could be the case the heavyweight division is much weaker than all the others and hes probably something like the 3rd best fighter in any other division. but its definitely the most likely case that fedor is one of if not the best overall fighter in the history of the sport.

Apparently he thinks if St. Pierre was 230 he would still be as agile and fast as he is right now.

Just FYI fedor has fought the top three strikers in mma history..

schilt (most accomplished k1 fighter ever)
hunt (top k1 fighter)
crocop (i don't have to even explain myself)

He's beat all three of them....

While anderson silva has major holes on the ground. He's lost on the ground more then once, and he's been mounted and taken into bad positions from inferior fighters more then once. Does he win? of course he does... but to think that fedor can face HW top of of the food chain K1 fighters... and not beat anderson silva is a bit crazy.. the ONLY REASON that you can argue that fedor would LOSE is that his cut to 205 would be bad for him. But there is researchable history that obviously shows that the odds are against anderson silva in that fight. Fedor is the best ground fighter in mma history... and he's beaten the best HW strikers in mma history... how many of anderson's opponents are the best ground fighters in mma history? 0?

I'm not saying anderson sucks, i'm just trying to prove how insane thinking that fedor vs andreson would be in anderson's favor when all facts say you're incorrect. You're better off telling me fedor would lose to chuck lidell........

On July 25 2008 11:02 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 05:32 TianYuan wrote:   On July 25 2008 00:23 Daut wrote: aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years. hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns. this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight. You know what I was really surprised by tho? How easily Aoki got Uno to the ground. I thought Uno's takedown defence looked REALLY good vs Ishida, a little Penn like if you will But yeah, Uno - despite having a draw vs Penn - isn't the same thing as actually fighting Penn hehe.. Btw if you like Aoki you really should check out Masakazu Imanari. I think they train together, but I like his submission-entrances more (ie his crazy dives into leglocks :D). dont let fox see you wrote this he will go on a tirade about how imanari is the devil

that guy should be banned from fighting.

On July 25 2008 11:06 LostDevil wrote: ive actually showed this to some people involved in MMA and they just laughed at how stupid bigbb33 is. but are you really stupid enough to defend an argument for 4 pages based around the premise that fedor would need to be shrunken down with a laser to miniature size? WAIT you say.. ITS MORE THAN THAT ... no it really isn't he will never be that small, he is the most dominant fighter in his weight class and there is no one as dominant in any other weight class. thats really all there is to it especially if you abide by the thought process that different weight classes put more emphasis on different skills. so maybe you put value on something that a heavyweight fan wouldn't and vice versa. but theres no one good in the heavyweights says bigbb33!!!!!! how the fuck do you know, all your arguments are moot because you are comparing apples and oranges. you are similar to some crazed baseball fan arguing: FUCKIN BABE RUTH WOULD HIT A BASEBALL 500 FT OFF JOEL ZUMAYA WHO THROWS 103 well go get your time machine and find out i'm gonna start a boxing thread so you can advocate going back in time, time warping a muhammad ali in his prime to oscar de la hoya's prime and then laser beam shrinking him to fight oscar all the while during the fight you tell everyone how muhammad ali really isn't that good compared to the little guys in the skill dept. wtf are you trying to argue again? oh yea... laser beams... what if you took your magical laser beam, which at this point i bet you think it exists, and asked st. pierre if he wanted to be morphed into a 230 heavy weight and fight fedor? what do you think he would say? by this time i hope you start to see how ludicrous your statements are LP needs an ignore user feature, id snap apply in this instance

Hello sir,

I just had a Xience Ultra Premium Energy Drink. No sugar added either. It had an official UFC logo on it.

I think I know UFC.

On July 25 2008 11:15 Daut wrote: its definitely possible that fedor isnt the best overall p4p fighter. it could be the case that bj, gsp and anderson are all better than him and hes 4th best. it could be the case the heavyweight division is much weaker than all the others and hes probably something like the 3rd best fighter in any other division. but its definitely the most likely case that fedor is one of if not the best overall fighter in the history of the sport.

well put daut. this statement IMO shows the difference between daut and bigbb in this argument. bigbb is being stubborn with blinders on, and refuses to consider other points. daut, although he believes fedor is the best p4p at least considers other opinions and is engaging in a logical discussion.

On July 25 2008 11:54 TenBagger wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 11:15 Daut wrote: its definitely possible that fedor isnt the best overall p4p fighter. it could be the case that bj, gsp and anderson are all better than him and hes 4th best. it could be the case the heavyweight division is much weaker than all the others and hes probably something like the 3rd best fighter in any other division. but its definitely the most likely case that fedor is one of if not the best overall fighter in the history of the sport. well put daut. this statement IMO shows the difference between daut and bigbb in this argument. bigbb is being stubborn with blinders on, and refuses to consider other points. daut, although he believes fedor is the best p4p at least considers other opinions and is engaging in a logical discussion.

I think you need to re-read the entire thread. It starts with me making a statement, getting massively ad hominem flamed, defending my point, using logical analogies, admitting that I could be wrong and only time will tell, then a guy writing a post/novel arguing about lasers and Babe Ruth. But yeah, when Daut simply restates his position, he's brilliantly made an undefeatable argument.

On July 25 2008 11:59 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 11:54 TenBagger wrote:   On July 25 2008 11:15 Daut wrote: its definitely possible that fedor isnt the best overall p4p fighter. it could be the case that bj, gsp and anderson are all better than him and hes 4th best. it could be the case the heavyweight division is much weaker than all the others and hes probably something like the 3rd best fighter in any other division. but its definitely the most likely case that fedor is one of if not the best overall fighter in the history of the sport. well put daut. this statement IMO shows the difference between daut and bigbb in this argument. bigbb is being stubborn with blinders on, and refuses to consider other points. daut, although he believes fedor is the best p4p at least considers other opinions and is engaging in a logical discussion. I think you need to re-read the entire thread. It starts with me talking nonsense, getting told i was wrong, defending my made up fairy tale, using irrelevant illogical absurdities, admitting that I could be wrong and only time will tell

On July 25 2008 12:08 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 11:59 bigbb33 wrote:   On July 25 2008 11:54 TenBagger wrote:   On July 25 2008 11:15 Daut wrote: its definitely possible that fedor isnt the best overall p4p fighter. it could be the case that bj, gsp and anderson are all better than him and hes 4th best. it could be the case the heavyweight division is much weaker than all the others and hes probably something like the 3rd best fighter in any other division. but its definitely the most likely case that fedor is one of if not the best overall fighter in the history of the sport. well put daut. this statement IMO shows the difference between daut and bigbb in this argument. bigbb is being stubborn with blinders on, and refuses to consider other points. daut, although he believes fedor is the best p4p at least considers other opinions and is engaging in a logical discussion. I think you need to re-read the entire thread. It starts with me talking nonsense, getting told i was wrong, defending my made up fairy tale, using irrelevant illogical absurdities, admitting that I could be wrong and only time will tell

And you're down to the insults too.

is this the same bigbb33 that was once trying to tell people who the best high stakes players were or something?

if so his comments here don't surprise me

nope, just stating some facts. being objective

On July 25 2008 12:12 Daut wrote: nope, just stating some facts. being objective

You aren't worth the ban. And none of you who insult me because you've got nothing else to say aren't worth my time.

bigbb3 i'd like you to respond to my post plz. I haven't been insulting have i?

On July 25 2008 13:04 Fox wrote: bigbb3 i'd like you to respond to my post plz. I haven't been insulting have i?

No you haven't, sorry I missed your post; it got lost in all the people who I shouldn't be responding to. I'll PM you and we can go from there because the rest of the people in this thread aren't the type I'm interested in talking to. Others: done with this thread, PM if you care to actually discuss and think you have the class to do so without resorting to ad hominems.

fedor has never lost a single round in MMA excluding the cut thing which no one counts.

oh gawd
is this becoming another internet drama thread?
I was just going to skim through and see if someone hooked me up with a site/server/something to get me up to speed w/ MMA and it looks like this thread is also turning gay so someone plz PM me a good solid site to watch these matches or get updates from?

thx

no offense to anyone I just don't wanna sift through pages of bs I'm to cool for school and totally above you - your an idiot etcetc to see if someone replied

and if that's not whats goin on srry
I didn't read the details

On July 25 2008 12:18 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 12:12 Daut wrote: nope, just stating some facts. being objective You aren't worth the ban. And none of you who insult me because you've got nothing else to say aren't worth my time.

awwww the poor wittle baby getting angry. so sorry to insult you little master sensitive

On July 25 2008 01:04 Daut wrote: if fedor didnt cut or if it wasnt possible to stop the fight cause of a cut i think the true odds would be higher (like 85% win for fedor) but you never know in mma, random shit happens all the time so how much we betting?

Well the fight is still along ways off so I'll contact you closer to the date, I'm kind of poor so probably only like 1-2k

4 pages and I still dont know what da fuck this topic is about? Is it about boxing?

Haha i read the entire thread as well, and although i know it's about MMA - Mixed Martial Arts, i don't understand much of it either. I know Fedor is one awesome fighter, seen some vids of him before, but who did he beat? Noone mentioned this as far as i know, and are there any vids of the match?

Personally, i do follow K1 but not MMA, it's not that i don't like it, just that i don't know it that well. Alright, i must add that i don't like the ground fights that much, they're just a lot less spectacular, and locks or submissions or whatever you call em are skillful but not as awesome to watch as knockouts...

I did a search for Fedor vs Randy and found this awesome vid:

On July 25 2008 00:23 Daut wrote: aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years. hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns. this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight.

if this match ever came to fruition holla at me for a bet^^
Aoki by decision is what i believe in, its gonna go the same way Calvancates match went, and if Calvan couldnt knock Aoki out Penn wont either. And ye i believe Hansen loss was a fluke, perhaps caused by fatigue of two matches in a row.

On July 25 2008 16:18 aseq wrote: Haha i read the entire thread as well, and although i know it's about MMA - Mixed Martial Arts, i don't understand much of it either. I know Fedor is one awesome fighter, seen some vids of him before, but who did he beat? Noone mentioned this as far as i know, and are there any vids of the match? Personally, i do follow K1 but not MMA, it's not that i don't like it, just that i don't know it that well. Alright, i must add that i don't like the ground fights that much, they're just a lot less spectacular, and locks or submissions or whatever you call em are skillful but not as awesome to watch as knockouts... I did a search for Fedor vs Randy and found this awesome vid:

fedor has beaten a lot of top HWs

his GNP is a better highlight real then chuck lidell's imo.

On July 25 2008 06:09 bigbb33 wrote: Oh and Fedor wrecking Nogeira bumps him up, had forgotten that.

Why would anyone argue witha guy who forgot that Fedor has beaten Nog?
EPIC LULZ.

A. silva's lack of success in pride kind of annoys me. Yes he lost twice to two mediocre fighters but both cases were some of the slickest submissions you'll ever see. outside of that anderson silva's record is excellent despite being in the worst division in mma (he can't really help that though) and he's been extremely impressive in his wins.

I can't condone kid hate. His record isn't anywhere near as impressive as many others but that isn't something he can help...he's beaten everyone he's faced except for one bs cut (and there are some pretty impressive wins there too) fighting AT LEAST two divisions above his natural weight class. I understand on any realistic success/competition ranking he's not going to find a spot but if you know his credentials and seen his fights it's hard to deny he isn't one of the greatest fighters ever. the guy is basically sean sherk if sean sherk was a better wrestler, had near K-1 calibur striking (with nuclear missles for hands), and would absolutely horrify people from top position instead of just wear them out and bleed on them (ps there's an unbeatable fighter hybrid, sean sherk + aids).

with bj, i really think hansen has a great shot at beating him as hansen is just so good at neutralizing whatever his opponent does best. i also agree gomi on his A-game has a great shot too, as does mach on his A-game (which btw would be an absolutely unreal matchup). i don't think aoki will be able to do what he's done in the past to bj, i don't want to bring up aoki's bjj match vs garcia since he was so young (and he was facing garcia who's pretty much fedor in the grappling world) but a young and green bj penn won the 2nd most prestigious grappling event in the world...and comparing bj to jz or hansen is a little ridiculous. both jz and hansen are great grapplers but nowhere even remotely near bj's level.

yeah fucking nog is like fedor if fedor did not exist. wtf is all this argument about? silva is great but he hasnt been in ANY great fights imo. he should try wandy and lets see, a real faggot dodging wandy by being in the same team sucking his dick

so how much does that laser beam cost?

On July 25 2008 18:33 KeanuReaver wrote: A. silva's lack of success in pride kind of annoys me. Yes he lost twice to two mediocre fighters but both cases were some of the slickest submissions you'll ever see. outside of that anderson silva's record is excellent despite being in the worst division in mma (he can't really help that though) and he's been extremely impressive in his wins. I can't condone kid hate. His record isn't anywhere near as impressive as many others but that isn't something he can help...he's beaten everyone he's faced except for one bs cut (and there are some pretty impressive wins there too) fighting AT LEAST two divisions above his natural weight class. I understand on any realistic success/competition ranking he's not going to find a spot but if you know his credentials and seen his fights it's hard to deny he isn't one of the greatest fighters ever. the guy is basically sean sherk if sean sherk was a better wrestler, had near K-1 calibur striking (with nuclear missles for hands), and would absolutely horrify people from top position instead of just wear them out and bleed on them (ps there's an unbeatable fighter hybrid, sean sherk + aids). with bj, i really think hansen has a great shot at beating him as hansen is just so good at neutralizing whatever his opponent does best. i also agree gomi on his A-game has a great shot too, as does mach on his A-game (which btw would be an absolutely unreal matchup). i don't think aoki will be able to do what he's done in the past to bj, i don't want to bring up aoki's bjj match vs garcia since he was so young (and he was facing garcia who's pretty much fedor in the grappling world) but a young and green bj penn won the 2nd most prestigious grappling event in the world...and comparing bj to jz or hansen is a little ridiculous. both jz and hansen are great grapplers but nowhere even remotely near bj's level.

fox and i were talking about how bj's bjj is the best in mma and you can notice it by how he finishes fights. A lot of the really slick bjj guys have the whole schmorgasbord of submissions in their fighting resume, ending fights with triangles, armbars, kimuras, leglocks. BJ doesnt do that. BJ establishes a dominant position and never takes an unnecessary chance, and goes for the extremely high probability submissions like RNC and arm triangle, or just finishing by strikes from mount position. seeing a fighter just dominate on the ground like that and ALWAYS end up in a mounted position then finish the fight is whats most impressive to me

On July 25 2008 13:26 Stim_Abuser wrote: fedor has never lost a single round in MMA excluding the cut thing which no one counts.

Pretty sure he lost at least one round vs Arona back in Rings. Although they didn't even have punches on the ground back then so Or maybe it was punches to the head on the ground.. was a while since I watched it.

On July 25 2008 11:40 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On July 25 2008 11:02 Daut wrote:   On July 25 2008 05:32 TianYuan wrote:   On July 25 2008 00:23 Daut wrote: aoki would never ever ever ever beat bj penn in a billion trillion years. hansen/alvarez/jz/gomi have a chance with probably an A game gomi having the best shot. aoki is just totally outclassed vs bj. no way he would ever submit him, his striking is nonexistant and bj has insane takedown defense and better takedowns. this coming from possibly aoki's biggest mancrush. god <3 aoki such a hero, only a real man can attempt a kneebar, an ankle lock, a triangle, a gogo, an armbar and a RNC in a 2 round fight. You know what I was really surprised by tho? How easily Aoki got Uno to the ground. I thought Uno's takedown defence looked REALLY good vs Ishida, a little Penn like if you will But yeah, Uno - despite having a draw vs Penn - isn't the same thing as actually fighting Penn hehe.. Btw if you like Aoki you really should check out Masakazu Imanari. I think they train together, but I like his submission-entrances more (ie his crazy dives into leglocks :D). dont let fox see you wrote this he will go on a tirade about how imanari is the devil that guy should be banned from fighting.

Haha why?
I'm gonna guess it's something to do with the fact that he goes for heelhooks every single time and they have a very high risk to cause serious injury (which is obviously bad but he's still exciting as hell)?

no it's because he'S EVIL

On July 25 2008 18:33 KeanuReaver wrote: I can't condone kid hate.

Kid hate comes from his arrogance and inability to control himself in a fight imo.

i don't think aoki will be able to do what he's done in the past to bj, i don't want to bring up aoki's bjj match vs garcia since he was so young (and he was facing garcia who's pretty much fedor in the grappling world) but a young and green bj penn won the 2nd most prestigious grappling event in the world...

Its hardlly a proper comparasion, as BJJ and MMA jits are very very different.
And Aoki, in my opinion is the best MMA-jits in the whole sport. All other fighters use striking and wrestling to setup BJJ play, catch someone in a submission, etc, but Aoki, Aoki doesnt need anything else, he just uses BJJ all the way through, from start to finish, to neutralize whatever his opponent has for him.

and comparing bj to jz or hansen is a little ridiculous. both jz and hansen are great grapplers but nowhere even remotely near bj's level.

if thats aimed at me- i was comparing them striking wise first and foremost.

aoki is great, but bj is still above him.

there is a reason bj is considered the p4p best and it's not cuz he has a great chin or good hands. it's cuz his ground game is fedor level.

On July 26 2008 08:16 Fox wrote: aoki is great, but bj is still above him. there is a reason bj is considered the p4p best and it's not cuz he has a great chin or good hands. it's cuz his ground game is fedor level.

its cos UFC are very very good at promoting their top dogs.

reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko
mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY!
as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class
aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this.
and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out.

On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out.

yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw.
And picking on words, thats just being a dick.

On July 26 2008 06:56 Fox wrote: no it's because he'S EVIL

What are you talking about..



I was trying to find his typical game-face but didn't find any good pics in google.

I should MS paint some horns.

On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick.

they fought twice you know...

and i kind of like calling it jits :O

On July 26 2008 15:07 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick. they fought twice you know... and i kind of like calling it jits :O

have you read the post i was quoting? By the time they fought the second time Mirko was already an accomplished mma fighter.

On July 26 2008 10:27 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 06:56 Fox wrote: no it's because he'S EVIL What are you talking about.. I was trying to find his typical game-face but didn't find any good pics in google. I should MS paint some horns.

i swear to god i will kill you. i'm having nightmares already.

anyone who thinks that aoki is better then bj on the ground is a bit off.

bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3.

aoki is top 5 for guard but he's not even top 10 for top position.

I'm not saying that aoki sucks, i'm a HUGE aoki fan... keanu/daut/me are HUGE aoki nuthuggers..

but this is bj we are talking about..

I should start Imanari-rolling you whenever you post. It will be the new Rickroll imo.
omg I should make this my stars avatar, ms paint some horns, and then spend my days stalking fox in the stars midstakes games.

On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3.

well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix?

On July 26 2008 15:14 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 15:07 Daut wrote:   On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick. they fought twice you know... and i kind of like calling it jits :O have you read the post i was quoting? By the time they fought the second time Mirko was already an accomplished mma fighter.

and bj isn't?

On July 26 2008 15:07 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick. they fought twice you know... and i kind of like calling it jits :O

this hurts my soul

On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix?

wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about.

well
at least people are spelling it jits instead of jitz

On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about.

Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

On July 26 2008 16:28 KeanuReaver wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 15:14 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 15:07 Daut wrote:   On July 26 2008 10:09 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 09:29 KeanuReaver wrote: reminds me of all the people thinking wandy would beat mirko mirko might be the more accomplished kickboxer but this is EM EM AYY! as i've said to fox when we discuss mma, i love how guys like bj show the difference between great and top class aoki is a great grappler, bj is top class...if they fight, bj will display this. and seriously "jits" is just a horrible term. don't ever use it. it's brazilian jiu jitsu or bjj, not "jits". i feel dirty even just typing it out. yes it is MMA, and the match was actually a draw. And picking on words, thats just being a dick. they fought twice you know... and i kind of like calling it jits :O have you read the post i was quoting? By the time they fought the second time Mirko was already an accomplished mma fighter. and bj isn't?

What does that have to do with anything!

On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

yea but mma bjj and competition bjj is a big difference.

i think most of us would agree that werdum has better bjj than nog but for mma nogs is better suited.

and just so you know fox is the biggest jacare nuthugger ever. i mean the straight bjj guys are really impressive in their grappling ability in fights (maia, jacare, etc) but bj has developed really really technically perfect mma bjj. he sets up takedowns so well with punches, he uses gnp while passing guard, and has the best mount position of anyone in mma, never goes for armbars or kimuras and sticks to taking back and winning fights with RNC over and over or finishing with strikes.

and i know im pulling a myth now, but kinda interested to see the manhoef vs jacare fight. its probably going to be really boring (either manhoef catches him and kos him or jacare gets it to the ground and its also over) but still going to be fun to see which one comes out on top. dont even know who else is left in the mw gp

On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's.

dude i mentioned maia... obviously i know people's resumes.. i probably know them better then everyone here except keanu.

and by your insane logic then bj being the first non brazilian to win a BJJ world championship should make him better then aoki? You can't have it both ways my friend

On July 26 2008 18:58 Daut wrote: and just so you know fox is the biggest jacare nuthugger ever. i mean the straight bjj guys are really impressive in their grappling ability in fights (maia, jacare, etc) but bj has developed really really technically perfect mma bjj. he sets up takedowns so well with punches, he uses gnp while passing guard, and has the best mount position of anyone in mma, never goes for armbars or kimuras and sticks to taking back and winning fights with RNC over and over or finishing with strikes.

true... although ... keanu is the biggest marcelo garcia nuthugger ever!!!!

On July 26 2008 18:51 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On July 26 2008 18:29 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 17:39 Fox wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:13 SfydjkLm wrote:   On July 26 2008 16:01 Fox wrote: bj is the best overall ground fighter on the ground in mma. A guard that's top 3 and top position that's top 3. well thats what im talking about. No doubt BJ is a top 5 lightweight fighter, but hes just so terribly overhyped. Really how can u possibly claim him to be the best ground fighter in MMA when Jacare is raping the MW grand prix? wtf jacare is great but he's still got a ways to go. i mean maia hasn't lost a fight in ufc iirc and his bjj is freaking out of this world but his mma ground is not bj's level... i mean... hehe. i gotta stop arguing this. it's like someone trying to tell me that kongo has better mma standup then mark hunt. Yeah kongo is great, but this is mark hunt we are talking about. Jacare is a 2004 and 2005 Openweight World Jiu-Jitsu Champion and 2005 ADCC Absolute Division runner-up(loss to Roger Gracie). Yes. Comparing BJ's jiu jitsu to Jacare's is like comparing Kongo's stand up to Hunt's. yea but mma bjj and competition bjj is a big difference. i think most of us would agree that werdum has better bjj than nog but for mma nogs is better suited.

agreed. in a bjj match werdum better but in mma nog is just better imo.