majority in the netherlands are smart! - Page 8

in norway, what has been true is that nearly all reported "assault-rapes" are committed by immigrants (and then often muslims). what is neglected by sites like "themuslimissue" (I mean come on) is that so-called assault-rape makes up a relatively small portion of the total amount of rape going on. a large majority of rape in norway takes place when some girl is nearly or completely blackout-drunk at some party and then some guy has sex with her. This is much less frequently reported/pressed charges against, because 1: the guy is usually an acquaintance of the girl and she will frequently share mutual friends with the raper, 2: it's much harder to prove there was any actual rape going on when there's no beating up taking place and 3: the girl feels more guilty and in fact ends up receiving part of the blame for putting herself in that situation in the first place.

I can accept that this is less traumatizing and a lesser crime than assaulting a woman and violently abusing her until she accepts that just going along with it is gonna leave her less damaged than further resisting, but when webpages state that "nearly 77.6%" (what the hell does that even mean? 77.57%?) of all rapes are committed by muslims or what was the case in norway, 42 of 42 cases in oslo or whatever, then they are being so selective in their use of statistics that they're basically just liars. there aren't any remotely valid numbers on actual rape taking place in norway, because of this misrepresentation with regard to which rapes are reported. for what it's worth, the two norwegian girls I personally know who were raped were both raped in exactly this situation; they blacked out at some party and some guy had sex with them. I'm not even sure I could kevin bacon my way to knowing a girl who was victim to actual assault-rape, because it's actually really, really rare.

like, I'm not saying that it's a non-issue. but everyone in norway who actually pushes this issue ARE either a) ignorant and deceived by faulty statistics or b) actual racists who deliberately lie because they perceive that there is a muslim threat and they don't care if they have to lie to convince others of this. or c) politicians who might not actually be racist but who realize that something like 20-25% of norway's population are negative towards immigrants and immigration and being tough on immigrants gets them votes.

as for the situation where this norwegian woman was raped in dubai and then arrested and detained for having sex outside marriage, that is a situation where yes, many islamic countries have a totally fucked up view of women. and yes, it's not entirely far-fetched to assume that muslim immigrants are gonna be more prone to sharing some of those fucked up viewpoints (even factoring in that muslim immigrants share one thing in common - that being that they left their fucked up countries). the issue is just where do we go from here? The issue I have isn't trying to fight the obscenely patriarchal laws that govern many muslim countries or exposing how sharia laws are in absolute conflict with basic human rights, it's that the way people are going about this fight. the muslims are already here, and they have been for both two and three generations. some type of mass deportation would be equally in conflict with basic human rights as sharia is. and the type of suspicion and hatred that breeds amongst "ethnic norwegians" (substitute at will for any other european nationality) through false statistics like what you just presented being thrown around is reflected right back at us through immigrants, experiencing suspicion and hatred, themselves grow hateful towards us - which is natural. I can't say that I've ever really experienced being hated, but I've certainly been disliked. And with _zero_ exceptions, the feeling has been mutual. If not from the get-go, then I would start disliking the person upon realizing that the person disliked me. I've also been loved- and while I might not have always loved equally much back, I've always liked everyone who has loved me.

the idea that we can stop immigration from islamic countries is absurd. it's an idea that stems from people either not understanding basic psychology, or simply not caring about how massively offensive and thus societally detrimental that would be for between 2 and 10~% of the population of various european countries.

and god damnit to continue with the bombardment of text, about cultural exchange:
when muslims who might have different ideas regarding the role of women in society come to norway, their ideas don't catch any wind with the norwegian populace. but it certainly works the other way; a norwegian second-generation immigrant from afghanistan is much more likely to be pro-women's rights than if he had just lived in afghanistan all his life. the world absolutely needs cultural exchange to progress, and the muslim world, in some ways being absolutely ass-backwards, needs cultural exchange more than anywhere else.

i mean for fuck's sake chris I just actually finished the article you posted. the last paragraph, seemingly with the author's suggestion for future policy:

Immediate deportation, complete ban on asylum applications and mass deportation of Muslims, with death penalty for Muslim criminals is necessary in Sweden today to tackle extreme Muslim violence.

this is just the scandinavian version of implementing patriot act and SOPA and whatever other surveillance act you want to include in the name of safety. Yes, let's abandon our humanity to preserve our humanity. fuck that. this guy is fucking hitler and his rhetoric is that of goebbels.

i confess i didnt read the entire thing, nor do i say those views are my own Liquid Drone. I do think that most nations in Europe seem to be taking an anti muslim stance. i know that their is general angst and suspicion towards muslims in the US

but LOL that is a pretty racist statement by the author

On July 22 2013 22:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: the idea that we can stop immigration from islamic countries is absurd. it's an idea that stems from people either not understanding basic psychology, or simply not caring about how massively offensive and thus societally detrimental that would be for between 2 and 10~% of the population of various european countries.

Drone,

I'm really curious WHY you believe this? Why is it offensive to you if a country wants to close its borders to immigration. Do you think there is a human right to live wherever you want?

If you do think it's absurd that you can stop immigration from Arab countries, why aren't people out in the street protesting for East Asia to change their immigration policies?

What makes Europe so special that any talk of limiting immigration is immediately branded racist drivel, while numerous other regions and countries get a pass.

I'm not trying to be aggressive when I ask this btw, I'm just curious why so many Europeans seem to think there is some moral basis by which they MUST help everyone and MUST accept immigrants etc. etc.

Frankly, if people are failing to integrate or find meaningful employment, I would consider not restricting immigration to be rather cruel and probably opposite to what they idealistically are trying to accomplish.

well the west has a deep hatred for democracy in the middle east. To impose dictatorships then say your not allowed to flee them is sort of like beating up a helpless old man and then imposing a rule that they aren't allowed to run from you when you beat them up. There probably wouldn't be so many that want to immigrate to EU from the middle east if they weren't living in such conditions.

Do you think it's fair if the middle east set up dictatorships in the EU then said you're not allowed to go to the ME countries? Do you think it would be fair to say British aren't allowed to emigrate to Germany as the world is now?

lets not just isolate the issue at immigration, but try to look at the bigger picture.

i love how drone questions basic democratic principles and basically wants to rob ppl b/c 'the world needs it'. history is full of egoistic retards who tried to put their fucked up morals into practise in the name of greater good. congrats

On July 23 2013 02:51 Stroggoz wrote: well the west has a deep hatred for democracy in the middle east. To impose dictatorships then say your not allowed to flee them is sort of like beating up a helpless old man and then imposing a rule that they aren't allowed to run from you when you beat them up. There probably wouldn't be so many that want to immigrate to EU from the middle east if they weren't living in such conditions. Do you think it's fair if the middle east set up dictatorships in the EU then said you're not allowed to go to the ME countries? Do you think it would be fair to say British aren't allowed to emigrate to Germany as the world is now? lets not just isolate the issue at immigration, but try to look at the bigger picture.

What?

Are you talking about Pakistan or the Middle East? Either way, let me know when non-Muslim Europeans aren't explicitly denied entry to Mecca.

Also, please tell me where in the EU that Muslim men are strictly prohibited from entering by law. Can you become a citizen in Saudi Arabia right now? How about Egypt? Jordan?...

Past history has no basis for what should be deemed acceptable with regards to immigration and integration today. You don't 'owe' the entire middle-east immigrant status because the 'west' installed 'dictatorships' in the 'middle east'.

Your whole statement lacks even a basic understanding of both history and culture and reads like someone who just finished being enlightened in his second day of liberal arts classes.

Does Japan owe Koreans and Chinese citizenship because they invaded them and disrupted their government? A few hundred years ago?

Why do you think that immigration is 'owed' because of perceived transgressions in the past? I'm still yet to have anyone give me a reasonable explanation of why it is considered by default that closing yourself to immigration is wrong. Everyone just resorts to saying closing yourself to immigration is racist, unless you're a country in East Asia, where it's reasonable because... ??

http://www.barenakedislam.com/2013/06...-wheelchair-by-another-muslim-savage/

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/th...scribes_man_as_great_friend_1_2239946

Nolan ,

read "White Man's Burden" by Rudyard Kipling

I think it will answer the question you posed to Drone

On July 23 2013 01:37 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On July 22 2013 22:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: the idea that we can stop immigration from islamic countries is absurd. it's an idea that stems from people either not understanding basic psychology, or simply not caring about how massively offensive and thus societally detrimental that would be for between 2 and 10~% of the population of various european countries. Drone, I'm really curious WHY you believe this? Why is it offensive to you if a country wants to close its borders to immigration. Do you think there is a human right to live wherever you want? If you do think it's absurd that you can stop immigration from Arab countries, why aren't people out in the street protesting for East Asia to change their immigration policies? What makes Europe so special that any talk of limiting immigration is immediately branded racist drivel, while numerous other regions and countries get a pass. I'm not trying to be aggressive when I ask this btw, I'm just curious why so many Europeans seem to think there is some moral basis by which they MUST help everyone and MUST accept immigrants etc. etc. Frankly, if people are failing to integrate or find meaningful employment, I would consider not restricting immigration to be rather cruel and probably opposite to what they idealistically are trying to accomplish.

I kinda go off on a tangent as usual here but I try to answer your question and elaborate on some related topics..

I do think that in general, the fortunate are to some degree obliged to help the less fortunate. This stems from the belief that the wealth and prosperity enjoyed by me and my countrymen is, in fact, caused by us being fortunate, and not through some type of impressive effort on my behalf. I haven't done anything in particular that makes me more deserving of the quality of life I am enjoying than random african person who starves to death or otherwise has a shitty quality of life. (NOT to state that I think africans in general have shitty quality of life- but some do, and I do think it's beneficial to humanity as a whole if those people have the opportunity to relocate and pursue happiness elsewhere. )

but that's a little besides the point I'm currently making. like, if you're arguing that we should stop immigration period, kinda like japan (I'm not too knowledgeable on japan here but it's basically my impression that they have almost none? do they not accept refugees? ) then well, I disagree, but that's not what I consider absurd. I think in norway, immigration as a whole has not just been beneficial towards the immigrants who come here, (even with many examples of shitty lives staying shitty) but to norway as a country as well. I think our society is culturally richer by immigration as a whole.

What I consider absurd is the suggestion that immigrants should be allowed to come, just not muslims or africans. That is far too much like this one period of time where jews were banned from entry in many european countries (including norway), and it reminds me of a period of history which culminated with hitler and the holocaust. I think that if you observe some of the more heated internet discussions happening various places and you substitute the word muslim for jew, you're gonna find yourself reading something that looks an awful lot like a german text from 1936. And it would be one thing if we didn't already have something like 100000 muslims living here, but we do, and we can't implement politics that are specifically targetted against muslims without seriously alienating all those people. If I were a muslim - possibly born in norway and self-identifying as a norwegian - and norway implemented a policy stating that norway would no longer accept muslim immigrants, I would be incredibly offended. That's legitimate grounds for rioting in my opinion. I don't want 100000 pissed off muslims - and that's just from a pragmatic point of view. I also find this type of discrimination morally abhorrent. Not to mention that I think the immigration we are the most obliged to accept are refugees and asylum seekers - both tend to originate from muslim countries.

what I do not however, is consider the current generation of europeans guilty by default for imperialistic policies enforced by our countries long before we were born. Norway was never an imperialistic force anyway - that is irrelevant to me. I do however think that, despite all the bad that happened due to the increased interconnectivity the world has enjoyed over the past 500 years, then we're also much better off due to the ease of travel, transportation and the cultural exchange that has happened. It is particularly annoying when norwegians speak of preserving "norwegian culture" or whatever, because they don't realize that largely everything currently defined as norwegian culture has its origin elsewhere. I really enjoy the ability to travel to other countries for no other reason than my own personal amusement - I find the notion that I should have the power to reject others the same ability extremely hypocritical..

While I accept the need for borders from a pragmatic point of view, I idealize a world without any. and like, norway has something like 0.07% of the world's population. I think we, as one of the most wealthy and prosperous countries through human history should accept something like 0.07% of the world's refugees. And if my memory and math skills serve me correctly, we're currently accepting less than one third of that.

On July 23 2013 01:37 nolan wrote: What makes Europe so special that any talk of limiting immigration is immediately branded racist drivel, while numerous other regions and countries get a pass.

Didn't read the whole thread so excuse me if this was already pointed out.

You have to remember that Europe is the most bloody continent on the planet. Not long ago 40 million people died here because a guy said that some nations are above others and wanted every minority out of his country. Soon the situation turned from deportating people from the country to chasing and killing them across all Europe.
People still remember this, thats why they are paranoid and screem racist at everything even remotely resembling the situation.

sucks that nordic countries have shitty options for immigrants.
its a problem that wont fix itself, and even if i agree the solutions presented by the right are far from perfect, if nothing is done about it, its going to get really worse for you guys in that region. good luck

On July 23 2013 16:06 moneypoker wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2013 01:37 nolan wrote: What makes Europe so special that any talk of limiting immigration is immediately branded racist drivel, while numerous other regions and countries get a pass. You have to remember that Europe is the most bloody continent on the planet.

mother of god,get your facts str8 before making big statements

On July 23 2013 10:47 chris wrote: Nolan , read "White Man's Burden" by Rudyard Kipling I think it will answer the question you posed to Drone

LOL

On July 23 2013 13:34 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On July 23 2013 01:37 nolan wrote:   On July 22 2013 22:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: the idea that we can stop immigration from islamic countries is absurd. it's an idea that stems from people either not understanding basic psychology, or simply not caring about how massively offensive and thus societally detrimental that would be for between 2 and 10~% of the population of various european countries. Drone, I'm really curious WHY you believe this? Why is it offensive to you if a country wants to close its borders to immigration. Do you think there is a human right to live wherever you want? If you do think it's absurd that you can stop immigration from Arab countries, why aren't people out in the street protesting for East Asia to change their immigration policies? What makes Europe so special that any talk of limiting immigration is immediately branded racist drivel, while numerous other regions and countries get a pass. I'm not trying to be aggressive when I ask this btw, I'm just curious why so many Europeans seem to think there is some moral basis by which they MUST help everyone and MUST accept immigrants etc. etc. Frankly, if people are failing to integrate or find meaningful employment, I would consider not restricting immigration to be rather cruel and probably opposite to what they idealistically are trying to accomplish. I kinda go off on a tangent as usual here but I try to answer your question and elaborate on some related topics.. I do think that in general, the fortunate are to some degree obliged to help the less fortunate. This stems from the belief that the wealth and prosperity enjoyed by me and my countrymen is, in fact, caused by us being fortunate, and not through some type of impressive effort on my behalf. I haven't done anything in particular that makes me more deserving of the quality of life I am enjoying than random african person who starves to death or otherwise has a shitty quality of life. (NOT to state that I think africans in general have shitty quality of life- but some do, and I do think it's beneficial to humanity as a whole if those people have the opportunity to relocate and pursue happiness elsewhere. ) but that's a little besides the point I'm currently making. like, if you're arguing that we should stop immigration period, kinda like japan (I'm not too knowledgeable on japan here but it's basically my impression that they have almost none? do they not accept refugees? ) then well, I disagree, but that's not what I consider absurd. I think in norway, immigration as a whole has not just been beneficial towards the immigrants who come here, (even with many examples of shitty lives staying shitty) but to norway as a country as well. I think our society is culturally richer by immigration as a whole. What I consider absurd is the suggestion that immigrants should be allowed to come, just not muslims or africans. That is far too much like this one period of time where jews were banned from entry in many european countries (including norway), and it reminds me of a period of history which culminated with hitler and the holocaust. I think that if you observe some of the more heated internet discussions happening various places and you substitute the word muslim for jew, you're gonna find yourself reading something that looks an awful lot like a german text from 1936. And it would be one thing if we didn't already have something like 100000 muslims living here, but we do, and we can't implement politics that are specifically targetted against muslims without seriously alienating all those people. If I were a muslim - possibly born in norway and self-identifying as a norwegian - and norway implemented a policy stating that norway would no longer accept muslim immigrants, I would be incredibly offended. That's legitimate grounds for rioting in my opinion. I don't want 100000 pissed off muslims - and that's just from a pragmatic point of view. I also find this type of discrimination morally abhorrent. Not to mention that I think the immigration we are the most obliged to accept are refugees and asylum seekers - both tend to originate from muslim countries. what I do not however, is consider the current generation of europeans guilty by default for imperialistic policies enforced by our countries long before we were born. Norway was never an imperialistic force anyway - that is irrelevant to me. I do however think that, despite all the bad that happened due to the increased interconnectivity the world has enjoyed over the past 500 years, then we're also much better off due to the ease of travel, transportation and the cultural exchange that has happened. It is particularly annoying when norwegians speak of preserving "norwegian culture" or whatever, because they don't realize that largely everything currently defined as norwegian culture has its origin elsewhere. I really enjoy the ability to travel to other countries for no other reason than my own personal amusement - I find the notion that I should have the power to reject others the same ability extremely hypocritical.. While I accept the need for borders from a pragmatic point of view, I idealize a world without any. and like, norway has something like 0.07% of the world's population. I think we, as one of the most wealthy and prosperous countries through human history should accept something like 0.07% of the world's refugees. And if my memory and math skills serve me correctly, we're currently accepting less than one third of that.

you are accepting this PER YEAR, i just want to clarify. do you know that by according to "Statistisk sentralbyrå" (their biggest,most respected statistic agency) by the year 2040, Oslo, your capital will be 50% immigrants, wrong/bad or right/good? up to you. you have around 15% immigrants in your country. just some facts, no morals.

Here in Sweden we recently got a law that made illegal immigrants in this country have totally free healthcare, while the rest of our population has not. i find it weird. its not my NATION as in land im worried about. its where me, my family, my friends and my future children will grow up in - if the economy was catastrophic for example (which i think, i dont believe in capitalism/corperatism - morally and its also the stupid thought of "NEVER TO MUCH", it will collapse at some point). i want to change that. but thats a different political and bigger and harder thing to solve, i can only do so much, which i try. if the thought of a solution to even a little bit of a better world is as small as Sweden letting in fewer immigrants per year - to make the ones already here integrated, is so fucked up, then i live in a fucked up world.

its so weird, every swede knows its problematic with the biggest %-wise immigration laws any nation ever had, since the we started this in the 90's, but alot of the people just ignores - denies, comes up with excuses - often blaming us, me, we swedes have LET them down. what the fuck have i done cunts.i just want a working country for my children to grow up to, no fucking naziempire. you are the public, you think you're special thinking so WONDERFUL thoughts - but you are the general person nowadays. and that indeed makes me sick. whatever it is politically you will just go with what the media says - or the general public thinks, never ever ever stepping out of your comfort zone, never thinking out of the "box" who your parents and school made you go around in. jesus christ, we are so afraid to be racist that we'd do ANYTHING to deny any problems with it. this isnt the most important question for me - my goals and thoughts about the world go way longer - but if i could change something thats wrong where i live, i would.

enough rambling from me, night cunts

On July 20 2013 13:37 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On July 20 2013 13:17 kingpowa wrote:   On July 20 2013 13:02 Gnarly wrote: Did anyone watch the trial in France where a muslim raped a girl, but literally got off completely free because "he wasn't in his home country" or some extreme bullshit like that? Yeah, no, fuck people who come into another country to fuck shit up. what ? Pretty sure it never happened. I will find you the case.

Still waiting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/12/wor...ape-penalties-prompt-outcry.html?_r=0

not sure if this is the one that guy mentioned

I doubt it, considering this has to do with gang-rapes that occurred over 13 years ago. I'm still curious to see if some guy got off (non-diplomat) a rape charge/conviction because he wasn't in his home country. Am pretty certain Gnarly is just speaking out of his ass though.

http://pamelageller.com/2014/07/viole...k-pro-terror-demos-across-world.html/


btw sakisaki is a retard who lives in his fairy tale bubble