dogmeat Czech Republic. Aug 19 2015 00:02. Posts 6374
On August 18 2015 21:35 Liquid`Drone wrote:
also your earlier quote 'Most of the immigrants that travel by boat are not refugees, but people looking for a better economic life'
'The large majority of the 137,000 people who crossed the Mediterranean Sea into Europe during the first six months of 2015 were fleeing from war, conflict or persecution, making the Mediterranean crisis primarily a refugee crisis, a UNHCR report released today concludes.'
so why dont they stay in the 1st secure country as they are supposed to?
On August 18 2015 21:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Most people who enter boats to Europe do so with the knowledge that they are unlikely to find prosperity, and with the knowledge that passing over the Mediterranean sea has a 10% mortality rate. They still do it, because they perceive the alternative as worse. Edit: The mortality rate has dropped significantly since April and is no longer that high. Can't find a quick percentage and I have to go. ;p
It has the perspectives from multiple 'migrants' - even ones who state that they want to go to because they're hoping for a job, or because they think getting a Visa to the US will be easier from Europe. But overall, it's a collective story of tragedies, and to ignore these plights because of some fear of future neighborly Jihad (even though these people are mostly fleeing from islamic extremists or political oppression - like Iranian refugees from the 80s, some of the best integrated groups of immigrants the west has ever seen), sorry, I think it's inhumane. If these are the values of western society and culture that are threatened by immigration, then I don't even think they're worth preserving.
They do it because they are being lied to by the people smuglers. Before getting robbed for their money...
On August 18 2015 21:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Most people who enter boats to Europe do so with the knowledge that they are unlikely to find prosperity, and with the knowledge that passing over the Mediterranean sea has a 10% mortality rate. They still do it, because they perceive the alternative as worse. Edit: The mortality rate has dropped significantly since April and is no longer that high. Can't find a quick percentage and I have to go. ;p
It has the perspectives from multiple 'migrants' - even ones who state that they want to go to because they're hoping for a job, or because they think getting a Visa to the US will be easier from Europe. But overall, it's a collective story of tragedies, and to ignore these plights because of some fear of future neighborly Jihad (even though these people are mostly fleeing from islamic extremists or political oppression - like Iranian refugees from the 80s, some of the best integrated groups of immigrants the west has ever seen), sorry, I think it's inhumane. If these are the values of western society and culture that are threatened by immigration, then I don't even think they're worth preserving.
The point about Jihad.
Im not so afraid the migrants themself are terrorists, even thou ISIS threathens with this:
I notice that the leftists in Norway laugh when people point out this, even thou Jens Stoltenberg himself warns about it...
The point was more about the general thought "if we just help saving the current wave of refugees and migrants, by sacrificing 1% of our welfare in Norway everything will be okay and we can move on". Well, since "Jihad" is such a central element in their religion, there will probably ALWAYS be some big conflict or war in these countries.... If not Syria then Pakistan, Iran, Iraq, Africa, Saudi Arabia will do something somewhere.... when they are not building mosques all over Europe .... The point is, i highly doubt the wave of refugees and migrants will move down even if we make some sacrifice now.
About the boat migrants. Since we are not doing anything about this issue (unlike Australia) the people smuglers activity will grow... This year about 200.000 travelled so far ? Next year 400.000 ? The year after that 600.000, the year after that 1 million.... If we keep feeding on the people smuglers disgusting business of robbing these poor people and then send them by boat over to Europe with, what you pointed out, a dangerous trip.
I can only refer to Sam Harris on this issue (from a norwegian perspective too!):
The thing is 99% of these people have suffered unjustified wars led by NATO mostly. They ve been robbed of their homes, they've been robbed of the bits of freedom they used to have. They've been living under tragic conditions with drones over their heads for years. And the majority of Europe will threat them as savages now. How fucking hypocritical. Reports say as many as 3,000 have been on the borders and more are coming. And those waves will keep coming for years to come until something is done in the middle east. What should be done is someone acquiring a atomic weapon so they balance each other out with Israel. Sounds ridiculous, but its the only way nations have balanced each other's influence is by military power and considering Israel has been running over that whole region thanks to the US its the only possible and natural way of things progressing. Hopefully the agreement between Iran and the US works out fine and things stabilize or Europe will be flooded by muslim culture in the next decade and there s nothing that can stop it.
There s already almost nothing to be done for countries on the fringe of EU. I know my country s gonna be gone in the next 50 years, like 20% of the country is already gipsies that do nothing but live in their ghettos and wont bother trying to integrate. They're not a human resource like the africans in the USA. They have no goals, they don't feel the need to progress, they just wanna live in shit environment as they have the past 3000 years off the back of normal people. The whole government body is so highly corrupt I don't see how things will change there in decades to come, and i don't mean just the current government I mean the entire system, voting polls don't mean shit a lot of people with power would have to die and have their prodigies be retarded for that system to fall until they reach a demographic crisis... well at least it wont be in my generation. I'm guessing its the same with countries around us ...
P.S. if the mod can rename this braindead name of the thread to something normal like Refugee crisis in Europe or smtng
Last edit: 22/08/2015 22:50
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Aug 22 2015 23:24. Posts 6374
indeed, change the name of this thread to 'official draw a muhammad thread'
On August 18 2015 21:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:
Most people who enter boats to Europe do so with the knowledge that they are unlikely to find prosperity, and with the knowledge that passing over the Mediterranean sea has a 10% mortality rate. They still do it, because they perceive the alternative as worse. Edit: The mortality rate has dropped significantly since April and is no longer that high. Can't find a quick percentage and I have to go. ;p
It has the perspectives from multiple 'migrants' - even ones who state that they want to go to because they're hoping for a job, or because they think getting a Visa to the US will be easier from Europe. But overall, it's a collective story of tragedies, and to ignore these plights because of some fear of future neighborly Jihad (even though these people are mostly fleeing from islamic extremists or political oppression - like Iranian refugees from the 80s, some of the best integrated groups of immigrants the west has ever seen), sorry, I think it's inhumane. If these are the values of western society and culture that are threatened by immigration, then I don't even think they're worth preserving.
10% mortality rate ? Where are you getting this number from ?
188.000 immigrants have been "saved" crossing the mediterranean so far this year, 2000 immigrants died trying to cross it.
So its closer to 1% in 2015.
And i bet the scumbags of people smuglers dont tell them about this risk eighter.
Anyway, Europe cannot absorb millions of refugees from Africa/Syria. So sooner or later the Australian solution is the only way to stop this.
:D
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Aug 23 2015 09:43. Posts 3093
it was a number I remembered from april. I wrote it, pressed post, then read a little more, realized it was no longer true (hence my sentence 'Edit: The mortality rate has dropped significantly since April and is no longer that high. Can't find a quick percentage and I have to go. ;p), then I forgot about it until now. You are absolutely correct that it's nowhere near 10% anymore. April had a couple really disasterous wreckages and I recalled that number being mentioned at that time - people still kept coming though, however there has been more effort on saving ships after that.
And we're not supposed to absorb millions of refugees. We're supposed to help them with food and shelter until the situation in the middle east improves. (which no NATO country can take absolvement from - Sweden can, but they're the only ones who don't. )
lol POKER
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Aug 23 2015 10:22. Posts 6374
We also HAVE TO slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
On August 23 2015 09:22 dogmeat wrote:
We also HAVE TO slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
"And we're not supposed to absorb millions of refugees. We're supposed to help them with food and shelter until the situation in the middle east improves"'
I hope you are right. I suspect this is a snowball that just started to roll, especially considering the mass immigration from Africa.
Im acctually truly worried about the situation. Im worried that just more and more immigrants will come and that the european leaders are "too soft" and too afraid to be called "racist" to find the real solutions IF indeed the problem will become as big as I can imagine...
Dude you guys are at the most northern point of Europe. By the time you reach a situation to worry about it ll be already too late :D
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Aug 23 2015 17:42. Posts 3093
On August 23 2015 09:22 dogmeat wrote:
We also HAVE TO slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
I think it's pretty amazing how you can write that paragraph and clearly be sarcastic.
I don't care much for traditional moral values tbh
lol POKER
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MARSHALL28 United States. Aug 23 2015 18:03. Posts 1897
To pose a question to all you guys hating on religion and thinking it should be removed from society ....
Name one atheistic culture/society wherein the birth rate exceeded the death rate.
USA is headed towards becoming an atheist culture, look at what's happening there. Nobody gives a shit about each other, everybody is on some kind of drug, prescribed or not. Divorce rate keeps going up, birth rate keeps going down.
I'm not even saying I agree w/ any religions, because I don't, but people seriously need religion, badly.
On August 23 2015 09:22 dogmeat wrote:
We also HAVE TO slow down the nuclear arms race, stop terrorism and world hunger. We have to provide food and shelter for the homeless, and oppose racial discrimination and promote civil rights, while also promoting equal rights for women. We have to encourage a return to traditional moral values. Most importantly, we have to promote general social concern and less materialism in young people.
I think it's pretty amazing how you can write that paragraph and clearly be sarcastic.
I don't care much for traditional moral values tbh
It's a quote from patrick bateman in american psycho
So nobody seems that worried about ISIS controlling 4 cities in Libya. From these cities boats with "immigrants" could easily be send towards Europe.. When the right-wing party "FRP" in Norway mentions this they are even beeing mocked and laughed at for their crazy conspiracies... Jens Stoltenberg also warned about this, before FRP did so, and total silence... I dont get this. Why is this nothing to worry about again ?
I also wondered, is anyone considering that this could all be some clever war tactics from ISIS/Boko Haram ? They know they cant beat us straight up by attacking us obviously. But they also know our leaders are weak and especially soft towards refugees / immigrants. If they can flood Europe with millions and millions of refugees / immigrants over the next 10-20 years that could be enough to beat us acctually.
.... The point is, i highly doubt the wave of refugees and migrants will move down even if we make some sacrifice now. 
