majority in the netherlands are smart! - Page 4

On June 11 2013 16:19 inc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 09:17 lebowski wrote: this is such a delicate matter, which makes the OP title seem retarded. Islamophobia is a fact and gathers a lot attention from people seeking scapegoats... Some of the atheists in here should be cautious of the alliances they are willing to make, paranoid Christians are far from the exception in the ranks of the Islamophobic. Banning people from Islamic countries to immigrate could very well mean religious polarization and not "the end of all religion starting from the worst". Should people denounce their religion to immigrate? Or are all immigrants banned because they were born in x part of the world? These are all delicate matters and not to be approached with sportsfan mentality like " I AGREE WITH YOU YOU SO SMART DUTCH PPL". I remember not long ago while browsing 9gag ot TLnet I saw a lot of Dutch ppl commenting on the greek debt euro crisis with a lot of derogatory and false statements about the greeks. I am one of the less patriotic people I know but the statements/tone I saw over and over were not justified and it gave me the impression that perhaps the media in Holland have some sort of agenda or maybe Dutch people have the inclination to seek for scapegoats. I hope this is not true, I've been to Holland and met many friendly people oh you have met friendly people, must mean everyone are generalisations go each way my friend. are you perhaps religions yourself my friend? just wondering.

where did I say anything close to what you say I did? The people I have met were friendly and sensible and I hope (hope, not know) most Dutch people are the same (and not like the ppl I saw commenting in internet forums). I am not religious, why do you ask? What good is it calling me "my friend" 100 times if you are going to sarcastically comment on something I didn't even say?

On June 09 2013 16:47 TalentedTom wrote: Things would be better off if there was a way to get rid of all religions.

I actually disagree with this. People would just find something equally silly to argue about. Like that South Park episode where they visit a future with no religion and people just argue over who's science is better and bow down to one order of science or another.

On June 11 2013 16:51 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 16:47 TalentedTom wrote: Things would be better off if there was a way to get rid of all religions. I actually disagree with this. People would just find something equally silly to argue about. Like that South Park episode where they visit a future with no religion and people just argue over who's science is better and bow down to one order of science or another.

cant be more than once science since it only uses one method and competing methods (trying to prove somebody wrong) is what makes science progress.

On June 11 2013 16:43 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 16:19 inc wrote:   On June 11 2013 09:17 lebowski wrote: this is such a delicate matter, which makes the OP title seem retarded. Islamophobia is a fact and gathers a lot attention from people seeking scapegoats... Some of the atheists in here should be cautious of the alliances they are willing to make, paranoid Christians are far from the exception in the ranks of the Islamophobic. Banning people from Islamic countries to immigrate could very well mean religious polarization and not "the end of all religion starting from the worst". Should people denounce their religion to immigrate? Or are all immigrants banned because they were born in x part of the world? These are all delicate matters and not to be approached with sportsfan mentality like " I AGREE WITH YOU YOU SO SMART DUTCH PPL". I remember not long ago while browsing 9gag ot TLnet I saw a lot of Dutch ppl commenting on the greek debt euro crisis with a lot of derogatory and false statements about the greeks. I am one of the less patriotic people I know but the statements/tone I saw over and over were not justified and it gave me the impression that perhaps the media in Holland have some sort of agenda or maybe Dutch people have the inclination to seek for scapegoats. I hope this is not true, I've been to Holland and met many friendly people oh you have met friendly people, must mean everyone are generalisations go each way my friend. are you perhaps religions yourself my friend? just wondering. where did I say anything close to what you say I did? The people I have met were friendly and sensible and I hope (hope, not know) most Dutch people are the same (and not like the ppl I saw commenting in internet forums). I am not religious, why do you ask? What good is it calling me "my friend" 100 times if you are going to sarcastically comment on something I didn't even say?

haha sorry, sometimes being stoned while reading/writing makes you more creative, but also makes you miss some points sometimes i realize now what you meant, honestly i think i only read the last line and draw a conclusion, my bad, memory fucked. nonetheless my point is right - but not pointed to you (havent read your whole post now cos tired as fuck and a lil blaze 10 mins ago, so you might be wrong somewhere! BEWARE! BE WRONG ON INTERNET AND YOURE FUCKED! peace my luv

another small input here - in the nordic countries its considers "beautiful" to love everything with immigration, see no wrong with it no matter what happens, its always someone/something else fault, not the immigrants or even the immigration POLITICS - and these people are so much smarter and kind - i was one of those thinking i was just that, but realized REALIZE the truth is actually the smarter thing to do. there is problems with massive immigration - multiculture to some extent yes please, but dont experiment with our lifes by hiding facts and shit from us - thats facist if something.

immigration has always existed, but not in the same way as now, we have to be careful with our political decisions.

in my eyes a slow immigration process is what to strive for, to accomplish a decent multicultural society.

/socialist

On June 11 2013 01:10 ichiro wrote: Show nested quote + On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing. however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy. i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss.

so true, studies even says poor tribes in africa and such are much happier then the western modern man. technology has overrun us, we cant cope - so much performance anxiety, simply so many "musts" while they are more where we are biologically evolutionwise in their societys, more basic needs - food, roof over your head etc. very good post!

Not being in africa is awesome!

On June 11 2013 20:10 inc wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 01:10 ichiro wrote:   On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing. however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy. i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss. so true, studies even says poor tribes in africa and such are much happier then the western modern man. technology has overrun us, we cant cope - so much performance anxiety, simply so many "musts" while they are more where we are biologically evolutionwise in their societys, more basic needs - food, roof over your head etc. very good post!

This type of stuff is really interesting to me. Despite all of our advancement in equality, technology, medicine, sanitation, etc I sincerely doubt humans as a whole are happier now than they were in the past. In our personal lives nobody would want to take a step back and everyone wants as much advancement for himself knowing the option is out there. But whether advancement really helps humanity from a happiness perspective I'm not sure about that at all.

In the very very old days where I live, people used to just chill out and spent their time fishing and did basicly nothing :D

--- Nuked ---

On June 12 2013 06:52 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 20:10 inc wrote:   On June 11 2013 01:10 ichiro wrote:   On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing. however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy. i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss. so true, studies even says poor tribes in africa and such are much happier then the western modern man. technology has overrun us, we cant cope - so much performance anxiety, simply so many "musts" while they are more where we are biologically evolutionwise in their societys, more basic needs - food, roof over your head etc. very good post! This type of stuff is really interesting to me. Despite all of our advancement in equality, technology, medicine, sanitation, etc I sincerely doubt humans as a whole are happier now than they were in the past. In our personal lives nobody would want to take a step back and everyone wants as much advancement for himself knowing the option is out there. But whether advancement really helps humanity from a happiness perspective I'm not sure about that at all.

this quote comes to mind:
"Ah, how little you know of human happiness - you comfortable and benevolent people! For happiness and unhappiness are brother and sister - or even twins who grow up together - or in your case - remain small together! "
One could argue that it's impossible to know greater states of happiness without also knowing it's equivalent unhapiness; maybe that explains what you guys are talking about

Well, weak peoples were defeated by the conquerors. Think about the Americas with the arrival of the white men. It's not about being happy, it's about survival.

^^ agreed. Its even evident especially in prisons that once our primal instincts kick in
We do play by race when survival is at stake and resources are scarce. The whole idea of everyone just getting along only works if everyone played by the rules in which case sharia practitioners donot seem to abide by. If they only took the "good" parts of the religion and did that there wouldnt be racism attached to that damn thing to begin with

On June 12 2013 06:52 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 20:10 inc wrote:   On June 11 2013 01:10 ichiro wrote:   On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing. however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy. i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss. so true, studies even says poor tribes in africa and such are much happier then the western modern man. technology has overrun us, we cant cope - so much performance anxiety, simply so many "musts" while they are more where we are biologically evolutionwise in their societys, more basic needs - food, roof over your head etc. very good post! This type of stuff is really interesting to me. Despite all of our advancement in equality, technology, medicine, sanitation, etc I sincerely doubt humans as a whole are happier now than they were in the past. In our personal lives nobody would want to take a step back and everyone wants as much advancement for himself knowing the option is out there. But whether advancement really helps humanity from a happiness perspective I'm not sure about that at all.

Actually i knew per hearsear that latinamerican countries were "happier" than other rich countries so I decided to make search for it in the internet and turns out its totally wrong, the countries who describe themselves as happiest are in the scandinavian region.

On June 11 2013 20:05 inc wrote: another small input here - in the nordic countries its considers "beautiful" to love everything with immigration, see no wrong with it no matter what happens, its always someone/something else fault, not the immigrants or even the immigration POLITICS - and these people are so much smarter and kind - i was one of those thinking i was just that, but realized REALIZE the truth is actually the smarter thing to do. there is problems with massive immigration - multiculture to some extent yes please, but dont experiment with our lifes by hiding facts and shit from us - thats facist if something. immigration has always existed, but not in the same way as now, we have to be careful with our political decisions. in my eyes a slow immigration process is what to strive for, to accomplish a decent multicultural society. /socialist

is it true that in sweden if an immigrant or someone with a non-swedish name is charged with a crime his identity is withheld/hidden in the major media?

does this also apply to ethnic swedes?

seen some things on the internet claiming they specifically censor out crimes committed by immigrants to dissuade racism or something. kind of crosses a free speech line if true though.

I kinda assume sweden resembles norway in this area. very possible that they've taken it one step further though.

but anyway; during the 90s, there was a general media trend that someone's ethnicity would only be mentioned when it was a non-norwegian doing something negative. that is, "the suspect is reported to have been an immigrant from a not-western country" or whatever would be reported, but "norwegian" or "white" would similarly not be mentioned in the event of it being a norwegian culprit. meanwhile, someone's ethnicity would be unlikely to be mentioned at all if something positive had occurred. There's no doubt that this negative media bias DID contribute towards people's perceptions of immigrants, because the only time people would read about immigrants in the paper would be while reading about some crime that had been committed.

during the past decade this trend has somewhat reverted. firstly media has been more conscious about portraying immigrants in a positive light. secondly media tends to close the "commentary" section of newspaper articles involving immigrants. (because they ALWAYS become a cesspool of actual racism - not just "lack of PC" or whatnot.) thirdly "was of foreign origin" has often stopped being an identifier for crime. which imo is logical, because it doesn't actually say anything about what the suspect looked like.

basically, it's another example of society (and media) attempting to adjust to immigration and not really knowing what to do or what the consequences of different actions will be, so they try some stuff out and occasionally go too far (in either direction).

also the whole happiness thing.. I think that's very hard to actually measure beyond just asking people whether they self-identify as happy. which I guess is a fairly good measurement. But either way, I can accept that like, norwegian prosperity and wealth and security doesn't grant happiness by itself. and I can accept that certain aspects of western society (especially stress and pressure to be successful) are likely to be detrimental towards happiness in a way that might just make today's society "less happy" than societies of the past.

However I don't see how that's really relevant to the whole, encouraging/allowing the pursuit of happiness to cross country lines, because I would assume that anyone who flees their country, be it for reasons of security or prosperity, is not happy with their point of departure. the average for their country or the average for people in their particular position in society is irrelevant, as happiness is highly individual and impossible to determine based on outwardly factors.

On June 12 2013 19:18 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On June 11 2013 20:05 inc wrote: another small input here - in the nordic countries its considers "beautiful" to love everything with immigration, see no wrong with it no matter what happens, its always someone/something else fault, not the immigrants or even the immigration POLITICS - and these people are so much smarter and kind - i was one of those thinking i was just that, but realized REALIZE the truth is actually the smarter thing to do. there is problems with massive immigration - multiculture to some extent yes please, but dont experiment with our lifes by hiding facts and shit from us - thats facist if something. immigration has always existed, but not in the same way as now, we have to be careful with our political decisions. in my eyes a slow immigration process is what to strive for, to accomplish a decent multicultural society. /socialist is it true that in sweden if an immigrant or someone with a non-swedish name is charged with a crime his identity is withheld/hidden in the major media? does this also apply to ethnic swedes? seen some things on the internet claiming they specifically censor out crimes committed by immigrants to dissuade racism or something. kind of crosses a free speech line if true though.

is "very" true yes. it was worse a couple of years ago, people are starting to "wake up" and a few argue about it. its been going on for a long long time, not even mentioning they have a little bit darker skin etc. one of our politicians recently said that paperless (illegal immigrants) usually dont look like ethnic swedes, this caused media to rage5000. one can not say such a thing! but everyone knows its obviously true. politicians took "distance" from that quote. its ridic here mate, completely. if someone says something in a room with random people about immigration, everyone becomes quiet and extremely uncomfortable, FORBIDDEN WORDS! - sweden pls.

On June 12 2013 12:27 lebowski wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2013 06:52 Nazgul wrote:   On June 11 2013 20:10 inc wrote:   On June 11 2013 01:10 ichiro wrote:   On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing. however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy. i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss. so true, studies even says poor tribes in africa and such are much happier then the western modern man. technology has overrun us, we cant cope - so much performance anxiety, simply so many "musts" while they are more where we are biologically evolutionwise in their societys, more basic needs - food, roof over your head etc. very good post! This type of stuff is really interesting to me. Despite all of our advancement in equality, technology, medicine, sanitation, etc I sincerely doubt humans as a whole are happier now than they were in the past. In our personal lives nobody would want to take a step back and everyone wants as much advancement for himself knowing the option is out there. But whether advancement really helps humanity from a happiness perspective I'm not sure about that at all. this quote comes to mind: "Ah, how little you know of human happiness - you comfortable and benevolent people! For happiness and unhappiness are brother and sister - or even twins who grow up together - or in your case - remain small together! " One could argue that it's impossible to know greater states of happiness without also knowing it's equivalent unhapiness; maybe that explains what you guys are talking about

this is true for the western man aswell. but you have a point! no the full answer tho, they see the little things as huge things, while we strive for the new phone, new computer new everything, constantly WAITING for happiness, while they live it.