majority in the netherlands are smart! - Page 3

On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted

also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb.

term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom

On June 10 2013 09:49 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote:   On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb.

maybe you should sometimes stay quiet instead of jumping in the middle of some elses conversations w/o knowing any history

the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia. Say, if a norwegian happens to be born in some tiny norwegian village, and then for some reason that norwegian is bullied, for what could or could not be his or her fault, then that person can uproot and change location to get a fresh start and a better chance at happiness. I want this opportunity to apply to a global stage; if you're born in a shitty place and into a shitty life, you can relocate and find happiness somewhere else.

Further, I think helping the less fortunate is a moral obligation of the fortunate, and I think the more people who share this general philosophy the better off mankind will be.

Honestly, I think, and hope, that most people can agree with this. So what the immigration debate actually should be (and sometimes is), is one of proportions, regarding magnitude of immigrants, and one of mutual adjustment, in the sense of how should we expect immigrants to alter their behavior when coming to european countries, and how far should we go in accomodating their culture.

And then, just like I myself must reject the idea of completely free/nonexistant borders (although it is what I idealize) because I accept that there has to be some degree of control to preserve norwegian standard of living and that if norwegian standard of living is actually hampered by immigration then immigrants will be subject to hatred and mistreatment in such a way that my reasoning for wanting immigrants to be allowed to freely come to norway would not be fulfilled (as they would not find happiness here), then people of the opinion that immigration has come too far and that we cannot accept any more, must accept that some immigration has to continue, and that our immigration policy cannot alienate those who are already here.

The first because of international obligations and the principle of helping refugees and allowing persecuted people to seek asylum, and the second because if our immigration policies are too alienating then the separation of cultures is proliferated and integration is hampered.

Finding the actual balance is genuinely hard though. I think in norway, and probably most of europe, too much of the immigration has been centered around poor regions of the capital / other big cities. I have no problems accepting that say, rotterdam, has too high concentration of morrocans in certain areas.
normally you see that immigrants who settled in smaller towns whom only really had norwegians to interact with are much better integrated (and much more appreciated by their local communities)- and this is natural. There's probably some selection bias in there as well, in the sense that immigrants who want to be integrated will naturally be more prone to moving away from communities from their own countries.

I wish that say, asylum seekers, would receive education from day two of arriving in their new countries, rather than having no real hope of establishing in their new countries and experiencing that their lives are basically "put on indefinite hold". We must also be absolutely clear in that european law supercedes any religious or regional laws that are brought along with immigrants. But we also cannot ban muslim immigration. In norway, that would be like telling 3% of the population that they are unwanted; in norway this amounts to something like 150k-200k of the population. Holland, and many other western european countries have significantly more. it's not like we can just kick these people out, that would be an absolutely gross violation of human rights, and we also cannot just ignore them or their plights, because then they are likely to become frustrated in such a way that tensions increase.

It's not an easy topic. But personally, I want any political policy to have the goal of accomplishing as many integrated immigrants as possible. I'm certain that through exploring policies of western european countries of the past three decades, you will find multiple transgressions from both sides of the political spectrum, in the sense that left-leaning parties have been accepting and accomodating in a way that has functioned as a hinderment of real integration, and that right-leaning parties have been rejecting and alienating in such a way that the outcome has essentially been the same.

On June 10 2013 09:50 dogmeat wrote: term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom Show nested quote + On June 10 2013 09:49 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote:   On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb. maybe you should sometimes stay quiet instead of jumping in the middle of some elses conversations w/o knowing any history

Oh, so people are not really free to do and think(within the law) what they want in a free society? To earn the right muslims now have to protest other more radical muslims is that it? Religious freedom with conditions, interesting. Or are you saying that secular muslims just dont exist. Deep down they are all rotten and should be cast out? You are indeed quite the liberal sir.

Lets pretend i was a muslim living in sweden. I was just the same as i am right now with the exception that i as pray 5 times a day and going to a mosk every once in a while, regularily reading the quran. Im totally loving my life, never felt happier, feeling free as a bird. Now you are telling me I cant do that anymore because my religion interferes with your view of what freedom is? Fuck you and let me do what i want maybe? You are going to make me more free by preventing me from doing certain things. Excellent idea!

I have read most of your posts and most of the arguments you and stroggoz have had in the past so Im quite informed. My respons wasnt really just about that post but rather an observation of many conversations all showing the same thing. You are an angry and narrow minded little person who deep down thinks that if just everyone though more like you the world would be awesome. Sadly lacking the intellectual capacity to fomulate your views in a coherent fasion you are forced to settle on calling anyone who disagrees for a communist/nazi/whatever else you feel apropriate to discredit the oposition rather than meeting their arguments. Its sad and counterproductive. In my opinion, trying your views and against differing ones in arguments is a great way of evolving intelectually, shouting moron to anyone who disagrees is unfortunately not.

On June 10 2013 09:50 dogmeat wrote: term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom

secular christians don't protest against christian fundamentalists either. I'm a white atheist and I'm not walking around apologizing to christians for the militant internet-atheists, even though they piss me off.

ive also talked to a secular muslim about this; he said that he just didn't care that much about religion and considering how he doesn't really consider himself religious, he doesn't want to get heavily invested in debating religion against people who are negatively predisposed towards him anyway. it makes perfect sense to me. most secular muslims just have better things to do than walking around apologizing for how more fundamentalist muslims behave. Additionally, even though they will be in disagreement with fundamentalist muslims, they also often share some degree of connectivity with more fundamentalist muslims and they want to maintain friendships despite this. Which also makes sense; I have many friends whose political opinions I find flat out wrong or terrible. I don't constantly engage them, because it'd be boring as fuck to be my friend then, and I just don't always care all that much.

On June 09 2013 22:13 dogmeat wrote: and i m sorry i cant tolerate a religion worshipping murderer, thief, rapist and child molester, having no respest for a human life and persecuting freedom and free will. apparently it makes a bad person

This is hugely incorrect. It's only the extreme fundamentalists (a very large minority) that persecute freedom and free will. It's the same 'sect' that also believes in Jihad. It's too bad that the entirety of a religion is defined by a few bad apples, but such is life. C'mon dogmeat, you don't actually believe what you wrote, do you?

On June 10 2013 08:16 HaiVan wrote: Islam is at its peak right now due to all the oil money in the middle east being used to promote islam in underdeveloped regions of the world.

There have been numerous times throughout history when the Arab states have wielded much much more power than they do now. Hell, The majority of Europe used to have to form a coalition at times (a very rare thing back in the 12-15th centuries) just to keep them at bay.

On June 10 2013 08:41 whamm! wrote: Problem with muslims is that they consider their religions sharia law as the global law and Anyone with different views should be considered infidels - wherever country they may be.

Problem with humanity in general is to assume knowledge and superiority before critically thinking about what it is they (falsely) believe to be fact. Yes, of course they believe their religion to be right. Guess what? So does every other person who practices religion. As for the infidel part, that is a very tiny % of the number of people who practice Islam. Sadly, it's this very tiny amount that blow shit up and get headlines all across the world.

On June 10 2013 09:04 nolan wrote: tl;dr: having pockets of mono-cultural immigrants isn't multiculturalism and does nothing positive for native dutch people or the immigrant populations and Europe clearly needs to have a real discussion about immigration without resorting to calling each other racists, terrorists, or anything in-between as I think it's clear that the last few decades of immigration has not been much of a net positive socially from any angle.

Very well put.


Anyways - this is all coming from someone who thinks all organized religion is the devil (har har, see what I did there?). Dog and Strogg, you guys gotta chill!

On June 10 2013 10:14 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On June 10 2013 09:50 dogmeat wrote: term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom   On June 10 2013 09:49 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote:   On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb. maybe you should sometimes stay quiet instead of jumping in the middle of some elses conversations w/o knowing any history Oh, so people are not really free to do and think(within the law) what they want in a free society? To earn the right muslims now have to protest other more radical muslims is that it? Religious freedom with conditions, interesting. Or are you saying that secular muslims just dont exist. Deep down they are all rotten and should be cast out? You are indeed quite the liberal sir. Lets pretend i was a muslim living in sweden. I was just the same as i am right now with the exception that i as pray 5 times a day and going to a mosk every once in a while, regularily reading the quran. Im totally loving my life, never felt happier, feeling free as a bird. Now you are telling me I cant do that anymore because my religion interferes with your view of what freedom is? Fuck you and let me do what i want maybe? You are going to make me more free by preventing me from doing certain things. Excellent idea! I have read most of your posts and most of the arguments you and stroggoz have had in the past so Im quite informed. My respons wasnt really just about that post but rather an observation of many conversations all showing the same thing. You are an angry and narrow minded little person who deep down thinks that if just everyone though more like you the world would be awesome. Sadly lacking the intellectual capacity to fomulate your views in a coherent fasion you are forced to settle on calling anyone who disagrees for a communist/nazi/whatever else you feel apropriate to discredit the oposition rather than meeting their arguments. Its sad and counterproductive. In my opinion, trying your views and against differing ones in arguments is a great way of evolving intelectually, shouting moron to anyone who disagrees is unfortunately not.

still hating me bro? :D i wasnt aware of the fact you read our private conversation... anyway i like how you completely ignored commune argument and just went on well-phrased rant how big of a moron i am and also attacked my inteligence.
yes i am angry at strogz coz hes repeating same phrase constatnly and ignores everything and everyone, funny how you attacked me for the same thing. yes it makes me sick how he went from someone thinking fascism is bad to full-blown communist retard questioning private property and division of labour
i also demand a quote when i called someone a moron

and the part about islam is not true, its complete fiction on your part, i was just pointing out you cant just divide muslims on secular/nonsecular coz its obv a scale ... where exactly do you draw the line? also i would argue majority of muslims in say afganistan is secular, they just cant escape and has to go with the crowd. so it only takes a bunch of fundamentalists to run the show and the rest will follow

On June 09 2013 21:51 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 19:12 Baalim wrote:   On June 09 2013 17:36 MiPwnYa wrote: I think its fairly reasonnable to hate most religions sayin that islam is worse than the other ones dsnt make much sense tho All religions are stupid but Islam is indeed far worse, what other religion stone people to death for adultery and deny basic human rights to women? Islam is barbaric and its influence should be stopped in the modern world, it has absolutely nothing to do with racism, as someone said since when is Islam a race? Well, I guess christianism has caused lots of harm in the past too and has been anything but a tolerant religion as well ? I'm not an expert but both islam, catholicism and protestantism have quite a heavy shitbaggage dont they ? And when the word racism was used ITT I assume it was used as in prejudice in general, hating muslims as a whole is obv a form of racism lol

Oh dont worry, you dont have to sell me on hating other religions, I despise them all and if it were for me I would impale the pope in St. Peter's along with his primeratis but this is a cultural things, Catholics have slowly evolved and while they are a baggage for science and other things, at least they are not stoning people to death, allowing society to crawl back to the dark ages all in the name of freedom of religion of pseudo racism is retarded.

Drone is right tho, the bad thing about this is that true racists mix up with us with a reasonable argument.

On June 10 2013 16:45 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On June 10 2013 10:14 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 10 2013 09:50 dogmeat wrote: term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom   On June 10 2013 09:49 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote:   On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb. maybe you should sometimes stay quiet instead of jumping in the middle of some elses conversations w/o knowing any history Oh, so people are not really free to do and think(within the law) what they want in a free society? To earn the right muslims now have to protest other more radical muslims is that it? Religious freedom with conditions, interesting. Or are you saying that secular muslims just dont exist. Deep down they are all rotten and should be cast out? You are indeed quite the liberal sir. Lets pretend i was a muslim living in sweden. I was just the same as i am right now with the exception that i as pray 5 times a day and going to a mosk every once in a while, regularily reading the quran. Im totally loving my life, never felt happier, feeling free as a bird. Now you are telling me I cant do that anymore because my religion interferes with your view of what freedom is? Fuck you and let me do what i want maybe? You are going to make me more free by preventing me from doing certain things. Excellent idea! I have read most of your posts and most of the arguments you and stroggoz have had in the past so Im quite informed. My respons wasnt really just about that post but rather an observation of many conversations all showing the same thing. You are an angry and narrow minded little person who deep down thinks that if just everyone though more like you the world would be awesome. Sadly lacking the intellectual capacity to fomulate your views in a coherent fasion you are forced to settle on calling anyone who disagrees for a communist/nazi/whatever else you feel apropriate to discredit the oposition rather than meeting their arguments. Its sad and counterproductive. In my opinion, trying your views and against differing ones in arguments is a great way of evolving intelectually, shouting moron to anyone who disagrees is unfortunately not. still hating me bro? :D i wasnt aware of the fact you read our private conversation... anyway i like how you completely ignored commune argument and just went on well-phrased rant how big of a moron i am and also attacked my inteligence. yes i am angry at strogz coz hes repeating same phrase constatnly and ignores everything and everyone, funny how you attacked me for the same thing. yes it makes me sick how he went from someone thinking fascism is bad to full-blown communist retard questioning private property and division of labour i also demand a quote when i called someone a moron and the part about islam is not true, its complete fiction on your part, i was just pointing out you cant just divide muslims on secular/nonsecular coz its obv a scale ... where exactly do you draw the line? also i would argue majority of muslims in say afganistan is secular, they just cant escape and has to go with the crowd. so it only takes a bunch of fundamentalists to run the show and the rest will follow

I promise to do better i you do. I didnt ignore the debate, I just wrote a seperate piece on why you come of as a retard.

The line is drawn with our laws I already told you. We dont need to draw special lines for islam. Its funny how you think you somehow have the right to decide how ppl live their lives, even when their way of living doesnt infringe on other peoples lives what so ever.

On June 10 2013 09:35 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On June 09 2013 23:18 Stroggoz wrote: where you go wrong is your definition of what freedom is, it is not what works in practice. while communism is proven to work in practice, really? you sound like a broken record, repeating the same and ignoring anything else, barely knowing what libertarian, liberal and corporations mean   On June 09 2013 23:18 Stroggoz wrote: In anarcho capatalism people are also free to accumulate private ownership of factories, land, business and run it like an authoritarian sctructure. did you just question private ownership???   On June 09 2013 23:18 Stroggoz wrote: And that's whats happened many times before in a democracy like america, ( i've already linked examples to you before) anarcho capitalism would mean complete freedom for totalitarian corporations to do what they want. people argue there is competition and liberty. Ok, it's not competition when you starve someone and then offer them a job that allows them to subsist, and they have no liberty if they have no money to do anything outside of work. -unsuccessful businesses fail; anyway your examples from current fascist US (which is in fact a republic, not democracy) are irrelevant to free market discussion (as i stated before and you rather decided to ignore it) -read the definition of corporation, mnj wrote longass post explaining in detail how corporations gets power thru government regulations and are cease to exist w/o government which you obv decided to ignore -non-qualified ppl are always under pressure coz they have no value on the market, its their fault, there always will be majority of unsuccessful ppl -an-cap example: if ppl were unhappy, they are free to join your commune and be happy. and others seeing how awesome it is would join right? well that wont happen coz anyone barely qualified would leave and your stupid system would collapse. so actually you are totalirian, forcing your bullshit upon others and denying their rights to promote your stupid ideas of right and wrong. you and other communists know your stupid system wont work unless you force smart and hardworking ppl to work for majority of lazy stupid faggots. while your motives might be good, you are in fact terrible human being :|

well like half of that stuff you said about me is complete fabrication. I've never advocated communism. You seem to think just because i argue against one thing it makes me another, when in fact i could be a million other things. i happen to see many flaws in syndicalism as well. It's not perfect but it's alot better than a top down run institution

Syndicalism doesn't mean it has communal values as well. All it means is that the power structure of an institution is run bottom upwards instead of top down. i don't understand why anyone not at the top would want it run from top-down since the decisions are left to one persons self interests, instead of the interests of 99% of the people inside of that institution.

When i was criticizing free markets, it was how they were practiced in the real world. There happens to be an argument for protectionism for poor agrarian countries because it would allow them to compete. There happens to be an argument against protectionism when rich countries protect their farmers for votes(and destroying the ability for poor countries to compete in agriculture) I happen to think free markets in theory are good. I also have a lot of respect for mnj, he is willing to have a good argument.

On June 10 2013 09:04 nolan wrote: Warning: Giant Essay When I ask people who are pro-immigration why they think it is a good thing I often get a reply that 'it helps the economy by filling low-wage jobs', this is one of the most 'racist' things I consistently hear people say on a regular basis. As if the PC crowd somehow presumes all immigrants will be uneducated unskilled laborers.

This is imo a very interesting point, and i 100% agree with you.

I think this a part of racism that is underlooked. They want to integrate people into their society, so they can have a class based system, where the immigrants do the jobs that are wage slavery. And then socio economic problems arise, you have all these poor people from one race being the poor class, and they start having crime problems. This is when it is easy for others to become racist, - it makes sense for them to be racist just based on observation of poor Moroccan kids being retards.

In the 1960's in New Zealand this is what happened to the Maori. There was a big campaign to get the rest of them who were still living in rural areas and on hills, and into the cities so they could do manual labor. Now they make up 50% of the jail population, have alcohol abuse problems and are the world leaders in child abuse.

This is in an essence what 'multiculturalism' is. Just a more humane version of slavery.

On June 10 2013 18:22 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On June 10 2013 16:45 dogmeat wrote:   On June 10 2013 10:14 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 10 2013 09:50 dogmeat wrote: term secular muslim is a tricky term, you dont see them protesting against the fundamentalists. current state of islam interferes w/ freedom   On June 10 2013 09:49 SakiSaki wrote:   On June 09 2013 22:10 dogmeat wrote:   On June 09 2013 19:02 Stroggoz wrote: http://www.notable-quotes.com/c/capitalism_and_the_wage_system.html i read the whole thing and its one of stupidest things i ve ever read. i m sick of ppl like you trying to force their stupid ideas upon others in the name of 'justice' (coz i assume you are aware of the fact that you are totally free to form a syndicalist commune in an-cap system so basically all your arguments against ancap are irrelevant). i m really really disgusted also, wtf is this. If you dont want to argue your point at all maybe just stay quiet? "your opinions make me sick" without any explanation, isnt really going to convince anyone. All it does is making you look sooooooo fucking certain you are right you wont even bother to try your viewpoint in an argument. It makes you look dumb. maybe you should sometimes stay quiet instead of jumping in the middle of some elses conversations w/o knowing any history Oh, so people are not really free to do and think(within the law) what they want in a free society? To earn the right muslims now have to protest other more radical muslims is that it? Religious freedom with conditions, interesting. Or are you saying that secular muslims just dont exist. Deep down they are all rotten and should be cast out? You are indeed quite the liberal sir. Lets pretend i was a muslim living in sweden. I was just the same as i am right now with the exception that i as pray 5 times a day and going to a mosk every once in a while, regularily reading the quran. Im totally loving my life, never felt happier, feeling free as a bird. Now you are telling me I cant do that anymore because my religion interferes with your view of what freedom is? Fuck you and let me do what i want maybe? You are going to make me more free by preventing me from doing certain things. Excellent idea! I have read most of your posts and most of the arguments you and stroggoz have had in the past so Im quite informed. My respons wasnt really just about that post but rather an observation of many conversations all showing the same thing. You are an angry and narrow minded little person who deep down thinks that if just everyone though more like you the world would be awesome. Sadly lacking the intellectual capacity to fomulate your views in a coherent fasion you are forced to settle on calling anyone who disagrees for a communist/nazi/whatever else you feel apropriate to discredit the oposition rather than meeting their arguments. Its sad and counterproductive. In my opinion, trying your views and against differing ones in arguments is a great way of evolving intelectually, shouting moron to anyone who disagrees is unfortunately not. still hating me bro? :D i wasnt aware of the fact you read our private conversation... anyway i like how you completely ignored commune argument and just went on well-phrased rant how big of a moron i am and also attacked my inteligence. yes i am angry at strogz coz hes repeating same phrase constatnly and ignores everything and everyone, funny how you attacked me for the same thing. yes it makes me sick how he went from someone thinking fascism is bad to full-blown communist retard questioning private property and division of labour i also demand a quote when i called someone a moron and the part about islam is not true, its complete fiction on your part, i was just pointing out you cant just divide muslims on secular/nonsecular coz its obv a scale ... where exactly do you draw the line? also i would argue majority of muslims in say afganistan is secular, they just cant escape and has to go with the crowd. so it only takes a bunch of fundamentalists to run the show and the rest will follow Its funny how you think you somehow have the right to decide how ppl live their lives, even when their way of living doesnt infringe on other peoples lives what so ever.

glad that you are amused but i never did this

On June 10 2013 18:51 Stroggoz wrote: well like half of that stuff you said about me is complete fabrication. I've never advocated communism. You seem to think just because i argue against one thing it makes me another, when in fact i could be a million other things. i happen to see many flaws in syndicalism as well. It's not perfect but it's alot better than a top down run institution

glad you again ignored my whole post and repeat urself again and again... anyway bolded part is ur fabrication .. i know you dont label yourself as communist but you are against "accumulation of private ownership of factories, land, business and running it like an authoritarian sctructure" and quoting bertnard russel ..

look since you are against "accumulation of private ownership of factories, land, business and running it like an authoritarian sctructure", there has to exist an entity to provent this from happening and force down-top structure ... and you know what youve got

On June 10 2013 18:51 Stroggoz wrote: i don't understand why anyone not at the top would want it run from top-down since the decisions are left to one persons self interests, instead of the interests of 99% of the people inside of that institution.

well thats not your fucking business, nor employees, you have no right whatsoever to tell someone how they should run their business, employees are free to leave to start their own syndicalist unions

On June 10 2013 18:51 Stroggoz wrote: When i was criticizing free markets, it was how they were practiced in the real world.

you are constantly using highly regulated markets as an example against free markets ... how do you not get this?

glad that you are amused but i never did this

Yeah its hard to know really what you mean most of the time. Just so much emotion

On June 09 2013 16:32 Gumster wrote: that poll clearly indicates that there are strong anti-islamic tendencies in holland. it's a notion that has been spreading throughout europe for the last couple of years. we've seen it in sweden as well, as our 3rd biggest party is now a party with racist policies who basically want close to no immigration. 63% say they want no new mosques? it's a peaceful place where people practice religion (and its important for many other reasons, such as social, cultural ones etc), and saying that you dont want any new mosques means you dont think muslims should have a right to practice their religion. basically they are getting all this hate because of states like iran that use religion to control people and stay in power, and because of people's own governments who can't integrate immigrants properly which leads to a load of socioeconomic problems. there's an islamification of europe going on? bitch please.

oh no, one of those swedes that thinks a party that has NOTHING racist in their party platform, that wants less immigration etc is racist, to many of you. i myself consider myself a socialist, but to not even be able to even talk about the problems that big immigrationwaves of people from an complete other culture causes makes me ashamed of my country its not about racism, its politics, jesus christ. have you completely missed what happened lately in sweden gumster? isnt that a problem caused by bad immigration politics? i as a socialist dont favor the party you're talking about (Sweden Democrats) but i even more despite the political correctness that makes anyone who speaks about this considered a racist. it IS a problem when an immigration policy has led to a decline in economics to some extent and the recent problems in sweden speaks for themselves, we have put all our immigrants (to many in a to short period) in the same places, now they are burning up ambulances all over sweden? firetrucks, hates the police. this builds a segregated country. even i as a Socialist as starting to question if the so called "multicultural" society is actually the best one. when i say multicultural im not talking about NO immigration, but in sweden its massive and fast from the arab world, and the cultures are crashing constantly. we also have so many laws that favour the immigrants its ridic. multiculture - sure, but please - to some extent.

ive actually been proven wrong that this would be no problem, but we can surely see after all these years of massive immigration to sweden the negative aspects of it, alot of the fault goes to mainstream media who's all scared of saying even a word about anything with immigration, politicians refusing to see the problem, cause it would "hurt their party to tell the truth" which is an actually quote from a politician in the second biggest party in sweden. please dont let political correctness make us unable to make wise political decisions sad times to actually find out that sweden (that has taken the most immigrants % wise in the history of the modern world faster then ever) is a failure, wish it would have worked. its a fucking experiment, please dont experiment with our lives thanks you.

so many immigrant dont work, but sweden dont even want to show statistics of this and of so many of the negative aspects of massive immigration. i think in a lets say 10-100 years (who knows) we will say, what the fuck did those politcians doing (in Sweden) hiding these kind of things from the public. my 5000000 billion cents!

im def not against immigration, but i am for a political climate where we can speak about these things like any other political question.

night.

Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and if you think the newly proselytized, converted and educated are secular Muslims, then you are deluding yourself. What is being preached is a submission to god, an abject relationship with Allah, Muhammad and his preaching in an interpretation that is not compatible with human rights and western philosophy.

The problem with non-secular Muslims is that they will impose it on their government to impose sharia, impose their world-view and/or ban free-speech, discussion and debate on anything that will demonize it. The entire world at the time of the fatwah against Salom Rushdie by the ayatollah Khomeini to suborn murder of a fiction writer of an entirely different country agreed that it WAS THE WRITER'S FAULT for insulting it. These aren't just fundamental Muslims that are the problem. These are people who are AFRAID of retaliation of being accused of bigotry, afraid of being accused of the ridiculous term "Islamophobe" that you cannot question/criticize or demonize it and it's a blatant insult to democracy and free-speech.

The danish cartoons are also a good example of the world's view and tolerance of Islam. It's shameful.

The people who think like this are not in the vast minority. It is a part of their religion and a part of their texts in the Hadiths and the Koran.

On June 10 2013 10:10 Liquid`Drone wrote: the ultimate reason why I am pro immigration has little to do with my personal life in norway. I just idealize this world where the birth lottery doesn't completely define your future happiness. That is, I don't see how I am more entitled to wealth and prosperity through being born by a norwegian woman in norway than someone born into desperate poverty in somalia.

happiness is a pretty wide concept. as i see it we always go out from our own perception of happiness, so we see someone in only a hut and a loincloth and think he must be unhappy cause he has, in our opinion, nothing.
however this guy could be the happiest man in the world because he finally caught a boar or a fish yesterday after not eating for 2 days. but when you show him a picture of a trawler with 50 tons of fish on board he ofcourse would want to move to a place where catching fish is that easy.

i guess what i am trying to say is: ignorance is bliss.

On June 11 2013 00:06 Tensai176 wrote: The people who think like this are not in the vast minority. It is a part of their religion and a part of their texts in the Hadiths and the Koran.

"A part of their texts"? Really? You have any idea how much shit has went down because of what's in the 'texts' of Christianity bible bullshit? Or what it entails? Gotta love religion, making morons out of people everywhere. No, I'm not calling you a moron btw, just stating the hilarity of your argument when you actually compare the koran to the bible with regard to whose dogma is more 'appropriate'.

And yes Tensai, the reason for all the Islam prejudice today IS because of the VAST minority of muslims who follow the fundamentalist values which believe in Jihad (death to infidels, etc.).

I don't think I have to go out on much of a limb to state that Christianity is currently the mother-fucker of all religions.

On June 10 2013 19:33 Stroggoz wrote: In the 1960's in New Zealand this is what happened to the Maori.

They Once Were Warriors.

this is such a delicate matter, which makes the OP title seem retarded. Islamophobia is a fact and gathers a lot attention from people seeking scapegoats...
Some of the atheists in here should be cautious of the alliances they are willing to make, paranoid Christians are far from the exception in the ranks of the Islamophobic. Banning people from Islamic countries to immigrate could very well mean religious polarization and not "the end of all religion starting from the worst".
Should people denounce their religion to immigrate? Or are all immigrants banned because they were born in x part of the world? These are all delicate matters and not to be approached with sportsfan mentality like " I AGREE WITH YOU YOU SO SMART DUTCH PPL".

I remember not long ago while browsing 9gag ot TLnet I saw a lot of Dutch ppl commenting on the greek debt euro crisis with a lot of derogatory and false statements about the greeks. I am one of the less patriotic people I know but the statements/tone I saw over and over were not justified and it gave me the impression that perhaps the media in Holland have some sort of agenda or maybe Dutch people have the inclination to seek for scapegoats. I hope this is not true, I've been to Holland and met many friendly people

On June 11 2013 09:17 lebowski wrote: this is such a delicate matter, which makes the OP title seem retarded. Islamophobia is a fact and gathers a lot attention from people seeking scapegoats... Some of the atheists in here should be cautious of the alliances they are willing to make, paranoid Christians are far from the exception in the ranks of the Islamophobic. Banning people from Islamic countries to immigrate could very well mean religious polarization and not "the end of all religion starting from the worst". Should people denounce their religion to immigrate? Or are all immigrants banned because they were born in x part of the world? These are all delicate matters and not to be approached with sportsfan mentality like " I AGREE WITH YOU YOU SO SMART DUTCH PPL". I remember not long ago while browsing 9gag ot TLnet I saw a lot of Dutch ppl commenting on the greek debt euro crisis with a lot of derogatory and false statements about the greeks. I am one of the less patriotic people I know but the statements/tone I saw over and over were not justified and it gave me the impression that perhaps the media in Holland have some sort of agenda or maybe Dutch people have the inclination to seek for scapegoats. I hope this is not true, I've been to Holland and met many friendly people

oh you have met friendly people, must mean everyone are generalisations go each way my friend. are you perhaps religions yourself my friend? just wondering.