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traxamillion   United States. Feb 02 2020 18:56. Posts 10468

My main game (sometimes 10/25 uncapped uncapped or some big plo runs on the weekends but this is usually the largest regular game in the bay area's cardrooms) os the 2/3/5 that runs around here. 5 bb, 3 sb, 2 button but the 2 on the button is not an ante; it plays for the BU so for example of it is limped to BU he can also limp for only 3 more dollars. Straddles allowed UTG only.

Ever since I've started playing these games years ago I was baffled. I used to do my own thing and stick to a 3x open (back when I played more 1/2/3. I'd open from 7-10 at 1/2/3 instead of the standard 15-20. At 2/3/5 20 is the standard open and it is common to see 25 opens and sometimes even higher. Last session I saw 8x opens from one players with no limpers in the pot first.

This always struck as me as terrible and super exploitable.

The thing that I've realized though is that in these smaller games it happens to be a good exploit because people dont adjust against it. If I 2.25x I'm leaving money on the table. People play vs 4x the same ranges they would vs minraise and noone is 3betting more than 3-5 % from any position.

I've decided it's good to go with the flow and raise large as well. The only difference I take is how I react to other large raises. I 3bet more than other players (had CO open 20 and fold/show his AQo vs my BU 3bet to 70 with 910s 2 sessions ago lol) and generally play tighter preflop although I probably do also make some late position calls that may not be entirely optimal (but with little threat of blinds squeezing unless they have specifically AQs, AK, QQ, KK, AA) it probably makes more money than folding.

Just wanted to get your guys thoughts on this large open raise meta because it is my understanding is it happens everywhere in low stakes and even sole mistakes games. I've had 5/10 games with 30 as the standard open with a lot of players opening 35/40 too.

Is there any reason to stick to optimal preflop strategy if you can exploit people with large raises?

What main adjustments do you make vs a table full of people opening 4x and giving tons of action (regular 4-5 handed pots)?

The only thing I hate about bay area games (and it should kill the games) is the rake structure. There is no % drop and they take at least a dollar per if there us no flop. This makes blind vs blind and bu vs blinds retarded. It completely deincentivisizes the most important part of the game which is stealing blinds. If you go to steal and you win those 5 dollars are instantly raked. Sure you might win the amount on top that was called but not always. And your steal wont always be successful either. It just becomes a losing proposition.

These huge raise sizes I think make up for this by making the games play much bigger than they should and the general large amounts of action kind of cover up the toxic rake situation in california. Regular battle games in these conditions would be absolutely pointless.

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traxamillion   United States. Feb 02 2020 19:03. Posts 10468

What I meant to say was if any flop is seen the full rake drop is taken right away instead of taken progressively as a percentage of the pot as the pot grows (at least it is capped at 5 dollars and this particular game has no bbq drop)

2/3/5 game folded to the blinds and sb completes bb checks back;

They are playing for like 5-6 dollars on the flop instead of the 11-12 that should be in there

 Last edit: 02/02/2020 19:09

traxamillion   United States. Feb 02 2020 19:03. Posts 10468

Excuse me typing on a phone please

hiems   United States. Feb 19 2020 01:09. Posts 2979

Damn that is really a weird structure esp the $1 rake no flop on a blind steal.

I beat Loco!!! [img][/img] 

NewbSaibot   United States. Feb 19 2020 14:28. Posts 4939

The large preflop opens stem from results oriented players. I cant tell you how many times I've seen someone open to $40 or higher in a 2/5 game and then proudly turn over JJ when everyone folds and say "better to win a small pot than lose a big one right!" Or they'll just 3bet jam pocket 7's to "fold out all the bad hands". These players want to win pots, not stacks. So yes, the result is the games just play much bigger. 1/2 plays like 2/5 and 2/5 plays like 5/10 stack wise. At the actual 5/10 level you probably get a much better class of player so everything is more or less "standard" there.

I will say the obnoxious overbets definitely get called less frequently to the point that I avoid them. I still see people happily calling off $30+ in a 2/5 game with a $300 stack, but these are the same guys who will call a $200 turn bet and then check/fold the river saving their last $25.

If you raise 3x or 4x youre going to be playing every hand 5 ways most likely and out of position vs at least a couple of players, but their ranges are such trash it hardly matters. You make TP or an OESD and hit and you're getting tons of value no matter what.

bye now 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 19 2020 21:50. Posts 15143

Well if people don't 3bet you can get away with it
I actually wonder if you can nodelock the low 3bet% in a solver run it and see the impact on sizes and ranges

Would take ages tho

93% Sure!  

Jelle   Belgium. Feb 22 2020 05:57. Posts 3476

No there is no reason to stick with GTO strategy that's complete insanity.

You probably have 100,000x more experience and knowledge than these guys and they're somehow willing to gamble with you. What are the odds that you are even the 2nd best player in that game? Looks like you're also knowledgeable about the rake system and made sure that it's actually beatable, great. If so, this opportunity might not last forever - your guys might run out of money, they might improve their game, life might happen, etc. So make the most of it while it lasts. If the money is significant to you, put in the hours, be nice and make friends with these guys, and play as exploitatively as possible, and try to absolutely obliterate that game. Please make sure you invest your winnings in stocks, not in hookers & blow.


Santafairy   Korea (South). Feb 23 2020 18:48. Posts 2202

^ignore this idiot

invest all your money in hookers, not stocks

hookers still make money even when they go down

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus HansenLast edit: 23/02/2020 18:48

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 24 2020 13:23. Posts 15143


93% Sure!  

Jelle   Belgium. Feb 25 2020 11:32. Posts 3476

lol soundly defeated by 3 lines of text


lostaccount   Canada. Feb 25 2020 23:28. Posts 5356

He’s not diversify enough only hookers no blow, not optimal. Gotta be balance

justLast edit: 25/02/2020 23:29

Santafairy   Korea (South). Feb 26 2020 14:34. Posts 2202

i'm dealing with the financially illiterate here


It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

lostaccount   Canada. Feb 26 2020 20:00. Posts 5356

Shit ur right, gotta educate myself in the financial market.


traxamillion   United States. Feb 27 2020 19:44. Posts 10468

  On February 19 2020 00:09 hiems wrote:
Damn that is really a weird structure esp the $1 rake no flop on a blind steal.

Yea it really sucks. Some rooms around here are still no flop no drop though

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Feb 29 2020 23:01. Posts 15143

  On February 26 2020 13:34 Santafairy wrote:
i'm dealing with the financially illiterate here


man you need to quit while ahead

93% Sure!  

YoMeR   United States. May 03 2020 04:13. Posts 12435

yea you better make sure you can sustain high winrates if they dropping rake preflop that shit is brutal lol. Otherwise you just will have tough time winning a lot of money longterm.

Just do whatever you think will net you most $ longterm. Why is it bad to be as exploitative as possible and start betting bigger with stronger hands and vice versa? If they figure it out you can adjust back right?

Some ppl got donk crushing down to an artform. Be creative but not deviate so far from solid play and you should be just fine.

eZ Life. 

Xima   Belgium. Jun 11 2020 12:44. Posts 4

Thanks for the info

Nalmenn   Andorra. Jun 16 2020 07:56. Posts 1

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 Last edit: 17/06/2020 09:55

whammbot   Belarus. Jul 26 2020 12:50. Posts 510

stocks are trash rn but yeah agree with the hookers thing lol

kingsizexx   United States. Oct 27 2020 16:16. Posts 2

--- Nuked ---

 Last edit: 29/10/2020 15:08


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