Poker sites seized by FBI - Page 29

still nothing on my withdrawal. i can still cancel it so it hasnt been processed yet. i cant wait to see this in my bank account finally lol

Actually logged on and was partially happy to realize I had way less in my account than I thought I did, yay downswing...

Stars and Tilt will most likely win the trial. Worst case scenario they lose the trial, pay shitload in fines, approve and process all cashouts and continue operating for all but US.

I don`t believe the people behind stars and tilt would be dumb enough to keep huge portion of their money in the US.

On April 17 2011 09:07 Svetoslav wrote: I don`t believe the people behind stars and tilt would be dumb enough to keep huge portion of their money in the US.

Ivey keeps most of his money in a box at the Bellagio

On April 17 2011 07:56 whamm! wrote: still nothing on my withdrawal.

On April 17 2011 10:47 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2011 07:56 whamm! wrote: still nothing on my withdrawal.

On April 17 2011 11:27 HaiVan wrote: Show nested quote + On April 17 2011 10:47 dogmeat wrote:   On April 17 2011 07:56 whamm! wrote: still nothing on my withdrawal.

On April 17 2011 09:07 Svetoslav wrote: I don`t believe the people behind stars and tilt would be dumb enough to keep huge portion of their money in the US.

2p2

<ok>

Heard about this this sometime ago. I dont really play anymore and had a total of like 3-4k on stars. For those of you who thinks Pokerstars or any other poker sites has a chance of surviving this just look into the facts.

1: PS total profit is estimated around 500mil/year (Forbes). So if any of you think they have billions saved in bank account to pay these fines you are ridiculous.

2: Money WAS going from USA into the sites. No argument there. So they are guilty based on USA laws. Now the argument is: Can DOJ of the United States prove it? Be realistic do you really think that the DOJ didnt do their homework? You think they are dumb and just taking a shot at this? This is their freaking job. PokerStars and other sites has almost NO CHANCE of winning this case at the end of the day. This is my conservative realistic opinion.

3: Read the full indictment (See 2). Around a total of 77 bank accounts have been seized. 32 inside USA and 44 outside America. They have seized account in these countries. USA, Germany, Switzerland, Andorra, Cyprus, Hong Kong, Malta, Canada, England, Philippines, Luxembourg, Ireland, Denmark and Panama. Is it possible that all these accounts were just for transferring money? Do you really think accounts in places like Switzerland, Panama, Ireland, Cyprus, Luxemburg and Andorra were only for small daily operations and meeting minor clients needs? Might be true. But Andorra, Luxembourg and Ireland are well known corporate tax heavens of the world. So you dont want to bet on it.

4: If you read the indictment again. This is what it says in P.56 and 57. The defendants shall forfeit ALL property constituting or derived from proceeds obtained directly AND indirectly as a results of the charges. Including BUT NOT LIMITED to. a) total of 4.5 billion dollar b) All the rights, title and interest in all the entities listed. So it is basically game over for not only USA Online poker. Its game over for PokerStars, FullTilt and the entities listed. I would really doubt if anyone will be playing poker on any of these sites in a year lets say.

5: A little hope for people who are worried about their own bankroll only and not the future of online poker. The indictment also says that if the USA can not be paid based on what has been seized USA or inside USA jurisdiction or commingled with other property which can not be subdivided without difficulty. America will go after personal assets of the defendants. I have also heard, but wasn't able to verify this, that in the UIGEA the players can transfer money to/from poker sites legally. (I dont know if it is true. And I wouldnt belive it until I see it in the bill itself.) But if it is. Then your personal money might be fine. You will get it probably in a few years though. But this does not change the fact that poker sites will be shut down. There is no way in the world any investor would touch any of these entities and USA will own these poker sites when this is over.

Read the details and think for yourself.

Edit: Just some other numbers and facts. (Forbes see 3)
1)FullTilt profit last year estimated at 100mil.
2)Total revenue of Online poker in the world is $4.8bil.
3)Around 30% of the revenue is tied to the US market.
4)70% of PokerStars and FullTilt market is from USA. (

You have to be either blind to the facts or insane to think any investor will come in and save Pokerstars or FullTilt or any other sites by footing in a four and a half billion dollar invoice.



1:http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/10/internet-gambling-pokerstars-business-beltway-pokerstars.html
2: http://www.scribd.com/doc/53107543/Indictment-DOJ-vs-Scheinberg-Bitar-Tom-et-al
3:http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0301/gambling-bluffing-government-internet-web-online-poker_2.html

@Capaneo

I've read all the details and I think there is a good chance you're wrong. Whether it takes angel investors or whether the 271k people online right now on Pokerstars and the elimination of the advertising budget in the U.S. is enough to cover the situation time will tell. I mean it's not inherently obvious what's going to happen but the idea that online poker will just die when the rest of the world can still play seems unlikely.

Im not saying it will die entirely. Im saying it will probably go back to the 2001-2002 levels in terms of revenue, traffic and profit. And it will probably stay there for a good 4-5 years if it ever makes a move from there.

Also Im not saying this is what 100% going to happen. I am saying with the numbers and facts the chance of anyone coming to the rescue is slim to none.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/41/...nst-stars-absolute-full-tilt-1021636/

“Transparent processing” lol

You can`t just go around seizing and confiscating shit even if you are the US

apparently u can

Has anyone mentioned that where these sites have traded as "PS3COM" and "Jewellery" sites etc that PS and FTP do actually deal in those items? This could be totally retarded but couldn't you run it so that you have a supply of cash and then continued inflow is provided by FPP store etc transactions and not actually credit card deposits? Hence you can circumvent the need for a gambling credit code (I realise a scenario of too many deposits and not enough store items could occur)? I just find it weird that the items listed in the indictment are all actually supplied in the VIP stores.

Also this only pertains to e-check and bank related transactions? Not for example Neteller and Moneybookers transactions? If a US resident moves 100k from Moneybookers to PS then that can't be touched? I realise all the funds are lumped together at the moment. Are the figures stated in the indictment likely to be spot on? For example for count 5 PS has to pay $1.5 billion. Don't they have to prove that amount is accurate and then doesn't a judge have to decide if that is equitable? I don't know anything about US law (should be obvious if these questions are moronic).

Well thats just a distraint, not a confiscation, they gotta sue them first

one thing's for sure, no poker site is 100% safe.

i thought before that pokerstars was the safest site to put your money in.