KQ vs boostedJ - Page 2

Great post naz, spot on. Betting a hand like KQ here is just so bad. It really devalues your hand. I would rather bet here with air than TPGK. You got yourself in such a crappy spot. I know this is somewhat repetetive, sorry. I prefer checking to betting here all day.

fwiw, I think betting here is bad, period. Betting ~3/4 is better than 1/2 here, but I just think betting in general is bad,

- added because I saw alot of people saying to bet bigger rather than check.

I think this is the classic case of not giving a laggy action player enough respect, but at the moment can seem like a tough decision.

to clarify - there is absolutely nothing wrong with betting this flop

On January 23 2007 03:50 PoorUser wrote: to clarify - there is absolutely nothing wrong with betting this flop

Unless you happen to like money.

Why is betting the flop so bad? Well... here's why. First of all, your bet has no mustard behind it. If you're raised by any of the players in the hand you have to fold, or donk off all your cash quite quickly following a "go broke the first time you get top pair second kicker" strategy.

Second, your hand isn't very strong. You have top pair second kicker, which isn't exactly middle set. This hand does not hold up very well against 4 or 5 other players. You can say you want to protect your hand but the fact of the matter is, you don't have much of a hand to protect, which is why you should have folded preflop.

Worst of all, if you bet, an ace high flush draw can and often will with all the dead money raise you off the hand. So, the very hand you are protecting against, just wins the pot and your bet for your troubles.

In heads up or three way pots, top pair is a decent hand. In large multi way pots, it's for the fish and tourists.

so u give a freecard to 5 players instead?


who are u btw contradicting PoorUser o_oa

is he being serious?

no fucking way you check here, but past the shove I cant say much. Im a low stakes donk

its nice that you've read all of your sklansky books but in order to understand poker you have to actually play hands of it too to get a feel for it

BestZergOnEast You are a fucking idiot.

On January 23 2007 03:57 BestZergOnEast wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2007 03:50 PoorUser wrote: to clarify - there is absolutely nothing wrong with betting this flop Why is betting the flop so bad? First of all, If you're raised by any of the players in the hand you have to fold

so what. its not like you're playing with your cards face up, if you get raised its an ez fold.
a bet by the hero shows alot of strength, and sets will make up a big portion of hero's range in the eyes of the villain (cause hero is reraising AQ, AA, KK pf) . i dont think ace high flush draws are pushed here that often.

I think u can make an agrument for either folding or even reraising pf, but once you flat with this hand the best play is to bet it in this situation and hope everyone folds. if someone raises u generally have to fold, and if someone flats.. then i guess on the turn u generally check behind or fold to any bet. you might be able to call a bet on the river if turn goes c/c.

On January 24 2007 22:31 PoorUser wrote: its nice that you've read all of your sklansky books but in order to understand poker you have to actually play hands of it too to get a feel for it

lol

You know, it's condescending pricks like you, that make professional poker players like me, not want to post here. But... if you ever want to play heads up or anything, just let me know.

On January 23 2007 04:31 Baal wrote: so u give a freecard to 5 players instead? who are u btw contradicting PoorUser o_oa

Giving a free card implies you have a good but vulnerable hand. You have TRASH and you have trash because you should have folded preflop. KQ is a suckers hand; most of the time it's dominated, the rest of the time everyone folds. Even AQ is just going to cost you money in a large multiway pot unless you hit a monster.

On January 25 2007 01:47 BestZergOnEast wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2007 22:31 PoorUser wrote: its nice that you've read all of your sklansky books but in order to understand poker you have to actually play hands of it too to get a feel for it lol You know, it's condescending pricks like you, that make professional poker players like me, not want to post here. But... if you ever want to play heads up or anything, just let me know.

you sound like a condescending faggot

On January 25 2007 01:47 BestZergOnEast wrote: You know, it's condescending pricks like you, that make professional poker players like me, not want to post here.

no offense, but i don't think you would be missed based on the tone of your posts. their quality to me is also very questionable.

On January 25 2007 01:48 BestZergOnEast wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2007 04:31 Baal wrote: so u give a freecard to 5 players instead? who are u btw contradicting PoorUser o_oa Giving a free card implies you have a good but vulnerable hand. You have TRASH and you have trash because you should have folded preflop. KQ is a suckers hand; most of the time it's dominated, the rest of the time everyone folds. Even AQ is just going to cost you money in a large multiway pot unless you hit a monster.

how does checking behind in a 5 way draw heavy board imply you have any kind of hand at all? it doesnt..........
the whole purpose of this thread was to illustrate the point that northfaces range at worst can be KQ which is why betting has a reasonable, yet not large chance to take it down and if you dont take it down who cares. i believe it was sophacles that once said 'you gotta bring the pain'. we dont advocate weak tight poker here >:[

and yes i will play hu whenever. its not like starcraft where you challenge me and then disc when im raping you either

and it would have to be nl, not limit~

and holler baal --

On January 25 2007 01:47 BestZergOnEast wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2007 22:31 PoorUser wrote: its nice that you've read all of your sklansky books but in order to understand poker you have to actually play hands of it too to get a feel for it lol You know, it's condescending pricks like you, that make professional poker players like me, not want to post here. But... if you ever want to play heads up or anything, just let me know.

probably not the wisest decision to challenge PU to HU

bestzergoneast an ace high flush draw will almost never come over the top of a raise in a 5 way pot unless he has a pair to go along with it. AKss wont even do that here very often.

northface HAS to bet because if he checks he almost has to fold to a bet on the turn. id rather give myself a chance to win the pot, clarify my hand and get out if raised than anything else.

On January 25 2007 11:04 Daut wrote: bestzergoneast an ace high flush draw will almost never come over the top of a raise in a 5 way pot unless he has a pair to go along with it. AKss wont even do that here very often. northface HAS to bet because if he checks he almost has to fold to a bet on the turn. id rather give myself a chance to win the pot, clarify my hand and get out if raised than anything else.

A couple things before I go... it seems I'm not wanted here either; no big deal. I think anyone interested can read the posts I wrote and judge the quality of the advice I was giving; I doubt I would have stayed long anyway, 2+2 is my home for this sort of thing.

This is exactly the sort of spot an ace high draw will be willing to gamble in. There's alot of money in the pot, you have a decent range of hands (or should if you are any good and on the button betting out after everyone checks) and he has serious folding equity, the key for a semibluff. Note, an ace high flush draw is a slight favourite over your hand in question here, KQ. To say, blindly, that flush draws will almost never come over the top here is playing theory poker, not real poker, and you're just plain wrong. In high stakes no limit games, people make moves, and they probably make alot more than you think they do. The difference is, their timing and execution is alot better than the chumps at the 2/5 game.

As for "having" to bet a hand like a pair of queens with a king kicker in a 5 way pot... this is exactly the type of thinking that keeps chumps walking away broke and has the tourists muttering. One day, you'll realize poker isn't a war. It's a calm, relaxing game, where people slowly pay you to remain cool and chill the fuck out.

Anyway, peace all. I'm sure my advice isn't need here, u guys got it pretty much all figured out. see ya at the tables.

i wouldnt have banned you from lp but just from the HS forum for obvious reasons
glad we were able to play hu.