KQ vs boostedJ

Submitted by : n0rthf4ce

PokerStars Game #8066807277: Hold'em No Limit ($25/$50) - 2007/01/22 - 10:38:59 (ET)
Table 'Erfordia' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 2: Hold_emNL ($6224.70 in chips)
Seat 3: Vaga_Lion ($4200 in chips)
Seat 4: Empire2000 ($8562.30 in chips)
Seat 5: p3achy_keen ($15774.30 in chips)
Seat 6: hotmark777 ($18219.20 in chips)
Seat 7: socutiesf ($1000 in chips)
Seat 9: Boosted J ($4925 in chips)
hotmark777: posts small blind $25
socutiesf: posts big blind $50

Holecards
Dealt to p3achy_keen
Boosted J: raises $150 to $200
Hold_emNL: folds
Vaga_Lion: folds
Empire2000: calls $200
p3achy_keen: calls $200
hotmark777: calls $175
socutiesf: calls $150

Flop (Pot : $1000)

   
hotmark777: checks
socutiesf: checks
Boosted J: checks
Empire2000: checks
p3achy_keen: bets $550
hotmark777: folds
socutiesf: folds
Boosted J: raises $4175 to $4725 and is all-in
Empire2000: folds
p3achy_keen said, "um"
p3achy_keen: calls $4175

Turn (Pot : $10450)

   

River (Pot : $10450)

   

Showdown
Boosted J: shows (a full house, Fours full of Jacks)
p3achy_keen: mucks hand
Boosted J collected $10447 from pot

Summary
Total pot $10450 | Rake $3
Board  
Seat 2: Hold_emNL folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Vaga_Lion folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Empire2000 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: p3achy_keen (button) mucked
Seat 6: hotmark777 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: socutiesf (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: Boosted J showed and won ($10447) with a full house, Fours full of Jacks

nice game selection..? ;x

will not dignify with response

well
at best your flipping and id say that seems possible but unlikely...

On January 22 2007 07:56 PoorUser wrote: well at best your flipping and id say that seems possible but unlikely...

u dont think hes leading here w/ set/combodraw?

probably but its even more unlikely to the 10th degree that hes going to bluff you when your betting out on a 5 way raised pot like this. i dont know does this not seem like the most slam dunk fold in the world. i guess i cant explain it because it seems so simple

is kq like the worst hand you bet on this flop probably i guess

imo it really looks like im stealing, and with only 1 person left to act (hotmark) i think he could easily push air here. my first instinct was to slamdunk fold because i was getting terrible potodds to be dominated/flipping. but after thinking it through, call seemed logical. brainfreeze? -_-

I'm with north here

on the flop, say you lead for 3/4 psb instead of 1/2 psb. does that make this an easier fold?

On January 22 2007 08:55 twotimesopt wrote: on the flop, say you lead for 3/4 psb instead of 1/2 psb. does that make this an easier fold?

sure does, but my intention was to make a stealish bet.

On January 22 2007 08:56 n0rthf4ce wrote: sure does, but my intention was to make a stealish bet.

Hmmmm, but that would imply you're trying to play KQo in a 5-way pot for stacks, right? I think in a 5-way pot your intention should never be to make your bet look stealish if you have a marginal holding. You simply do not want to be put up for the decision with a hand like this, however saying you try to make it look stealish implies the opposite.

Anyway I like some parts of your thought process such as your opponent being the preflop raiser checking on the flop which I think usually indeed does imply he won't have a set (5-way atleast). Your button bet which will look a bit fishy to him. However one thing you are definitely wrong on is Boosted ever having air here. He will never, ever have air. He might have checked his flush draw on the flop because he didn't want to be put allin by another person. When realizing button is betting stealish he could consider pushing KAs over the top. However it's also possible that he checks KK/AA because he doesn't want to play for stacks against 4 unknowns. However upon seeing the button trying to take this pot he pushes them over the top. Then there's also the possibility that he does have a set. Sets/KK/AA dominate you, flush draw you're a small winner. You have 550 invested and 4500 to call, you have to be right here a huge amount of the time which on full ring unfortunately I doubt you will be.

Another thing to consider is that I don't think anyone is 'stealing' this pot with a hand less than KQo (even with KQ I consider this a steal). Your bet is borderline, but still fine. However I will never see myself betting a flush draw, JQo or air in your position. Boosted isn't a bad player, he knows this. Even though the button might *look* like a steal, this is a 5-way pot, meaning it isn't a steal. You talked yourself into calling based on the thought that a bet from the button looks like you want to take this pot down which I think is ridiculous in a 5-way pot. 3-way I could live with that thought much more. Like I said the thought is good but you're not applying it correctly.

Hope that made some sense I just typed away.

thanks nazgul, that makes a LOT of sense :D.

Yea good post by nazgul
I agree with pretty much everything he says

someday i will be able to explain my thoughts concisely like you naz

I think your preflop call is bad, but u know I'm a nit.

On January 22 2007 11:34 NMcNasty wrote: I think your preflop call is bad, but u know I'm a nit.

NMcNitty

jk

On January 22 2007 08:16 n0rthf4ce wrote: imo it really looks like im stealing, and with only 1 person left to act (hotmark) i think he could easily push air here. my first instinct was to slamdunk fold because i was getting terrible potodds to be dominated/flipping. but after thinking it through, call seemed logical. brainfreeze? -_-

How does it look like you are stealing northface? You are probably regarded as a tight player and you bet half the pot when many people saw the flop. You'd even check a flush draw here. He knows that. So the only thing you can have is a pair+flushdraw combo draw or top pair or two pair and he knows his line looks purely like a draw.

Easy fold yo!

On January 22 2007 09:07 Nazgul wrote: I think in a 5-way pot your intention should never be to make your bet look stealish if you have a marginal holding.

Pardon the ignorance, but what would a non-stealish bet look like here?

750~800$

Preflop is really, really bad. KQ is a much worse hand then 23s here preflop. In a raised pot, unless the stacks are DEEP and the players are bad (not you think they are bad... you know they are bad over a serious sample size) you should be ditching everything except for AK and pocket pairs.

You know why all the old time players are nits? Because all the non nits have long since gone broke. Those are a few words of widsom from Tommy Angelo and it would do you good to listen.