LGBT Poll - Page 10

On October 27 2017 01:47 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 26 2017 20:50 Baalim wrote: As I've said, there is a huge misunderstanding between left/right and it stems from the definiton of gender, Gender is not sex, of course there are only males and females as a species or call it woman or man, but gender is the socialized aspect, as I mentioned an UFC fighter fits much more a traditional role of a man than you do, that means "manness" is a scale, lets say from 10, super masculine to 0 being very affeminate. This means that what we call a "man" is a complex system that contains femenine traits to different degrees, so you are admiting isnt just as simple as binary. As Drone said I am strongly anti SJW, I've debated against them probably more than any of you have, so I understand where you all come from, and its a reactionary thing to the bullshit they spill, but no, admitting our sexuality and gender isnt simple doesnt mean you have to cater to some attention-seeking asshole who wants you to adress them with "they" as pronoun, you can understand reasonable arguments without accepting any dogma. For example I believe deliberately calling a trans person the wrong pronoun who honestly feels like the opposite sex and actively tries to look like it is very callous, and at the same time I won't bulge to 64 gender theory and to compulsory use of pronouns by law etc, its called forming your own damn opinion. The only thing I disagree with is, people should be called based on their biological sex and you want to call them on there identified gender. I'm not deliberately being callous or trying to harm, I am just holding my position that a man is a man and a woman is a woman whether someone or everyone takes offense to biological truth is not for me to worry about. Im not going to entertain mental illness because someone born a man is trying REALLY hard to not be one, if you have male chromosomes you are still a man. I will continue to call people based on biological sex as it is the easiest way to do so. If people want to chop their dicks off as long as they do it in private and dont force me to call them a woman then im fine with that. I also dont want tax money spent to promote LGBT way of life as it is disadvantages to society and also they might find a cure to the mess if we weren't so PC and bothered to look into the science of it all. So I dont think point needs to be discussed further.

yes your chromosomes say you are a man, but we cant read chromosomes with simple sight, so if someone looks, acts and thinks like a woman it would be normal to adress him/her as a woman, (never compulsory by law obviously).

The thing is, reasonable people dont expect you to think transexual ppl are genetically male or female, but socially and that is what matters, who would you rather bang wobbly?






Who do you think belongs in a women's and men's bathroom.

realize that calling the first a man and the second a girl is just silly, and no adressing them in their pronoun does not mean that you deny any biological truth.


also accepting this does not mean that you surrender to the gender unicorn theory and that Demi-furry-asexual-non binary tomboy is as valid as a gender as man or woman

On October 27 2017 01:49 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 26 2017 20:53 Baalim wrote:   On October 26 2017 08:45 wobbly_au wrote: curious is being a furry (wanting to bang animals) a mental illness to the opposing side? there is no evidence that any other species "confuses" itself as other kind of animal unless heavily socialized (dog raised by cats etc), so its definitelly not a biological condition, unless we are talking about feral kids. so yes, Furries are bullshit, if you call legit trans people by their pronoun it doesnt mean you have to go full retard on other subjects Seems arbitary where you've chosen to draw that line as there are plenty of traits that are unique to human species but still biological.

not many biological traits not observed from other greater primates tbh, it would be absurdly rare that the homo sapiens sapiens is the only species that can biologically have the "mind" of another species, come on.

On October 26 2017 21:43 Spitfiree wrote: Okay, I can agree with all of the above yet I'm still confused about your view. I'm fine with a male that wants to be a female and be called a she and vice versa (for the third time...), but apart from that how far do we go? That doesn't really expand the genders to more than 2, it's that the sex and the gender could be two opposites or are we going for gender types of 80% manly 20% feminine? I don't really see the complexity in this. Why would we have to create unique new genders just because some guy wants to wear a skirt? Who stops him from wearing a skirt in the first place? I understand that the whole idea is to make it easier on those people to fit in society, but this seems like the most ridiculous way to go... not to mention that most languages don't even have a word for gender and it overlaps with sex. You'll be amazed how much that matters

I dont think we should create genders, I am not advocating for the 64+ gender theory at all, because obviously gender comes from traits from two sexes, so gender and sexuality is a play between all those traits and roles betwee the two sexes, saying 64 genders is stupid as its not an even distribution and gender statistically heavily gravitates towards biological sex.

So if transgenders can't compete in women's sports you are admitting that they aren't truly women.

Otherwise how do you explain that they are women but can't compete in women's category sports?

Baal, if and when i see a beautiful girl i'd obviously address her as a lady, girl what ever but I'd be WRONG because they are a man.

If I see a clear example of a man cross dressing or a decent looking man in a dress with an adam's apple or big hands Im just not going to entertain the fact that they think they are a woman. To me clearly they are a man.

Baal it seems you don't actually have anything against my position except that I shouldn't knowingly mis use pronouns. That to me is a violation of my free speech.

If it looks like a man, sounds like a man im going to call it a man.

what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts.

On October 27 2017 21:12 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On October 27 2017 13:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible. Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible. Agree, society constantly develops and we're not talking about basic acceptance. At least I'm not - its kind of obvious that there s no going back from that anymore, regardless of whether the most extreme right wingers like it or not. The direction of the whole "evolution" of society is to be address though, since the "transgenders wont compete " is far from the reality. People getting sued cause they are not calling some retard "they" and shit like that are very real and as wobbly said, California has decriminalized HIV spreading ... thats the type of shit going in the USA and as every other "trend" it will come to Europe, you can already observe similiar situations in Germany. Loco where exactly did I ever express a lack of basic respect, do tell. I kinda cba reading your posts in this thread cause they are just words with no actual content. And simply LOL if you thought the meme was anything else than a joke. It's meant to show an absurd situation which is now a reality shitton of men that identify as women have entered and compeltely destroyed competitions. Is that something that deserves respect? I'm not addressing ALL of the transgenders. I'm addressing the ones abusing the system because they were granted inadequate privileges, are you that shallow to comprehend such a simple point? edit: Considering those cases are becoming a "standard" thing in society I dont really think they are rare ocassions and distractions.

So the picture was a joke and it also wasn't a joke? Make up your mind. It doesn't show the absurd situation or the "reality" you're referring to. (1) The person isn't trans and (2) the person can't pass as a trans woman in any sport. What's fucking absurd is that you're implying that there is a loophole and people can pretend to be transgender to compete in sports with an advantage. That just doesn't happen. Just like your reductio ad absurdum of people identifying as potatoes. If that's not a distraction, I don't know what is. You're just desperate to "score points" against a minority that is severely discriminated against. It's quite sad.

Anyway, since you say you don't read my posts (yet you also seem read them...) I guess there's no reason for me to keep responding to you...

On October 28 2017 02:30 wobbly_au wrote: what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts.

Coming from the guy whose first words in years to a fellow dejected and struggling LPer were basically these: "dude I don't have time to read a few paragraphs of text in a blog entry, I'm a really busy guy you see -- can you resume the problem in one sentence?"

Such a warm-hearted fellow you are.

On October 28 2017 23:01 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 27 2017 21:12 Spitfiree wrote:   On October 27 2017 13:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible. Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible. Agree, society constantly develops and we're not talking about basic acceptance. At least I'm not - its kind of obvious that there s no going back from that anymore, regardless of whether the most extreme right wingers like it or not. The direction of the whole "evolution" of society is to be address though, since the "transgenders wont compete " is far from the reality. People getting sued cause they are not calling some retard "they" and shit like that are very real and as wobbly said, California has decriminalized HIV spreading ... thats the type of shit going in the USA and as every other "trend" it will come to Europe, you can already observe similiar situations in Germany. Loco where exactly did I ever express a lack of basic respect, do tell. I kinda cba reading your posts in this thread cause they are just words with no actual content. And simply LOL if you thought the meme was anything else than a joke. It's meant to show an absurd situation which is now a reality shitton of men that identify as women have entered and compeltely destroyed competitions. Is that something that deserves respect? I'm not addressing ALL of the transgenders. I'm addressing the ones abusing the system because they were granted inadequate privileges, are you that shallow to comprehend such a simple point? edit: Considering those cases are becoming a "standard" thing in society I dont really think they are rare ocassions and distractions. So the picture was a joke and it also wasn't a joke? Make up your mind. It doesn't show the absurd situation or the "reality" you're referring to. (1) The person isn't trans and (2) the person can't pass as a trans woman in any sport. What's fucking absurd is that you're implying that there is a loophole and people can pretend to be transgender to compete in sports with an advantage. That just doesn't happen. Just like your reductio ad absurdum of people identifying as potatoes. If that's not a distraction, I don't know what is. You're just desperate to "score points" against a minority that is severely discriminated against. It's quite sad. Anyway, since you say you don't read my posts (yet you also seem read them...) I guess there's no reason for me to keep responding to you...

I can't argue against delusion. The reality is absurd thats the point. Guess it is indeed too hard to grasp for you

On October 28 2017 23:26 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2017 02:30 wobbly_au wrote: what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts. Coming from the guy whose first words in years to a fellow dejected and struggling LPer were basically these: "dude I don't have time to read a few paragraphs of text in a blog entry, I'm a really busy guy you see -- can you resume the problem in one sentence?" Such a warm-hearted fellow you are.

You are he one coming here and speaking from morale high ground and attacking me personally now you want to shame me for not being "nice" enough on an Internet forum? instead of long useless words I offer short and succinct advice.

Talk about the transgender issue and how your POV differs from mine or spitfires or anyone else's.

On October 28 2017 23:01 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 27 2017 21:12 Spitfiree wrote:   On October 27 2017 13:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible. Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible. Agree, society constantly develops and we're not talking about basic acceptance. At least I'm not - its kind of obvious that there s no going back from that anymore, regardless of whether the most extreme right wingers like it or not. The direction of the whole "evolution" of society is to be address though, since the "transgenders wont compete " is far from the reality. People getting sued cause they are not calling some retard "they" and shit like that are very real and as wobbly said, California has decriminalized HIV spreading ... thats the type of shit going in the USA and as every other "trend" it will come to Europe, you can already observe similiar situations in Germany. Loco where exactly did I ever express a lack of basic respect, do tell. I kinda cba reading your posts in this thread cause they are just words with no actual content. And simply LOL if you thought the meme was anything else than a joke. It's meant to show an absurd situation which is now a reality shitton of men that identify as women have entered and compeltely destroyed competitions. Is that something that deserves respect? I'm not addressing ALL of the transgenders. I'm addressing the ones abusing the system because they were granted inadequate privileges, are you that shallow to comprehend such a simple point? edit: Considering those cases are becoming a "standard" thing in society I dont really think they are rare ocassions and distractions. So the picture was a joke and it also wasn't a joke? Make up your mind. It doesn't show the absurd situation or the "reality" you're referring to. (1) The person isn't trans and (2) the person can't pass as a trans woman in any sport. What's fucking absurd is that you're implying that there is a loophole and people can pretend to be transgender to compete in sports with an advantage. That just doesn't happen. Just like your reductio ad absurdum of people identifying as potatoes. If that's not a distraction, I don't know what is. You're just desperate to "score points" against a minority that is severely discriminated against. It's quite sad. Anyway, since you say you don't read my posts (yet you also seem read them...) I guess there's no reason for me to keep responding to you...

Transgenders do compete in female sports, whether they are pretending or real transgenders you and I will never know since you and the majority of society seems to think that your gender is what you feel like.

The picture is meant to demonstrate that absurdity that if Emily wants to play female sports she should as Emily identifies as female and science doesn't matter.

On October 29 2017 00:21 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2017 23:26 Loco wrote:   On October 28 2017 02:30 wobbly_au wrote: what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts. Coming from the guy whose first words in years to a fellow dejected and struggling LPer were basically these: "dude I don't have time to read a few paragraphs of text in a blog entry, I'm a really busy guy you see -- can you resume the problem in one sentence?" Such a warm-hearted fellow you are. You are he one coming here and speaking from morale high ground and attacking me personally now you want to shame me for not being "nice" enough on an Internet forum? Talk about the transgender issue and how your POV differs from mine or spitfires or anyone else's.

I'm pretty sure I haven't personally attacked or insulted you a single time in this thread. You just like to frame criticism in that way because it's easier to handwave it away. I haven't called you a weak-looking, emotionally-retarded gook. That's an insult. See the difference? The irony again of you playing the victim here: nothing I said to you could possibly be more hurtful than the things you said to deathstar. I can't really blame you though, it must be hard to deal with actual dissenting arguments and criticisms when you are so used to being stuck in your own echo chamber, all the while you get your edumacation from YouTube.

You're changing the subject again. It's not about your "succinctness". You went to RiKD's blog and before you even tried to give him advice, you asked him to reduce his entire thoughts -- his entire life into a single problem, into one sentence. You apparently have so little empathy that you don't realize how insensitive that is.

instead of long useless words I offer short and succinct advice.

Is that a fact or just your biased opinion? Why don't we find out? We can ask RiKD who has posted the most helpful/thoughtful comments on his blog from his perspective. I don't mind putting money on the line.

On October 29 2017 00:25 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 28 2017 23:01 Loco wrote:   On October 27 2017 21:12 Spitfiree wrote:   On October 27 2017 13:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible. Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible. Agree, society constantly develops and we're not talking about basic acceptance. At least I'm not - its kind of obvious that there s no going back from that anymore, regardless of whether the most extreme right wingers like it or not. The direction of the whole "evolution" of society is to be address though, since the "transgenders wont compete " is far from the reality. People getting sued cause they are not calling some retard "they" and shit like that are very real and as wobbly said, California has decriminalized HIV spreading ... thats the type of shit going in the USA and as every other "trend" it will come to Europe, you can already observe similiar situations in Germany. Loco where exactly did I ever express a lack of basic respect, do tell. I kinda cba reading your posts in this thread cause they are just words with no actual content. And simply LOL if you thought the meme was anything else than a joke. It's meant to show an absurd situation which is now a reality shitton of men that identify as women have entered and compeltely destroyed competitions. Is that something that deserves respect? I'm not addressing ALL of the transgenders. I'm addressing the ones abusing the system because they were granted inadequate privileges, are you that shallow to comprehend such a simple point? edit: Considering those cases are becoming a "standard" thing in society I dont really think they are rare ocassions and distractions. So the picture was a joke and it also wasn't a joke? Make up your mind. It doesn't show the absurd situation or the "reality" you're referring to. (1) The person isn't trans and (2) the person can't pass as a trans woman in any sport. What's fucking absurd is that you're implying that there is a loophole and people can pretend to be transgender to compete in sports with an advantage. That just doesn't happen. Just like your reductio ad absurdum of people identifying as potatoes. If that's not a distraction, I don't know what is. You're just desperate to "score points" against a minority that is severely discriminated against. It's quite sad. Anyway, since you say you don't read my posts (yet you also seem read them...) I guess there's no reason for me to keep responding to you... Transgenders do compete in female sports, whether they are pretending or real transgenders you and I will never know since you and the majority of society seems to think that your gender is what you feel like. The picture is meant to demonstrate that absurdity that if Emily wants to play female sports she should as Emily identifies as female and science doesn't matter.

Again, why ask me to bother with your arguments if you don't even do a little bit of preliminary research and then you don't deal with the arguments? This is simply not true. Here are the IOC requirements:

In this spirit, the IOC Consensus Meeting agreed the following guidelines to be taken into account by sports organizations when determining eligibility to compete in male and female competition: 1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction. 2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions: 2.1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years. 2.2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition). 2.3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category. 2.4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

"Emily" could not qualify. If you know a thing or two about biology you know that "Emily"'s testosterone is through the roof. You cannot maintain that muscle mass with below 10nmol/l of total T.

Now onto your next claim. You claim that any biological male can participate in a women's competition because it's impossible to know what they "feel like on the inside". Do you see anything in those guidelines that suggests that this is the case? And that someone can just pretend to be trans and compete? No you don't.

Yes, science does matter. That's why you go to mental health experts to understand things that you don't understand as a layperson. They spend their lives conducting studies and reviewing the scientific literature that you don't have the time and capacity to review. This is exactly what you failed to do when you arbitrarily dismissed the scientific consensus I've shown to you. You don't get to speak in the name of "science" when you have no respect for science. I have the DSM-5 in my hands right now. The DSM serves as a universal authority for psychiatric diagnoses. It does not pathologize transgender people. It states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder". I'll ask you one last time: why is it wrong, and what credible counter-evidence do you have?

On October 24 2017 15:02 wobbly_au wrote: Specifically im against. 1. Transgender public bathrooms 2. LGBT sex ed in public schools (and to a lesser extent "normal" sex ed) 3. Adoption of children by same sex and especially trans people 4. Im against Gay marriage if it means the government will subsidize it. 5. Subsizied gay parades 6. LGBT awareness days in work and what not. 7. Hormone therapy for non adults Why shouldn’t I have these views?

Tolerance is not a right, it's a peace treaty, so there is no reason for people to tolerate your intolerance for the most vulnerable and mistreated people in society.

Some random thoughts I'll throw down before exiting this time suck thread:

1. Basically every gay or trans person I know says they discovered their respective sexual orientation and gender at a very young age, and the literature I've seen seems to back up that it's nature rather than nurture.

2. While it's not 100% clear that the higher attempted rates of suicide are the direct result of mistreatment and not partially caused by hormones and/or other factors due to being gay/trans, we have to assume that bullying is the catalyst. Note that bullying may not be direct bullying, but even a perception that society mistreats LGBTQ groups can cause enough internal strife to lead to a downward spiral of depression. Earlier education on these issues would both decrease depression in LGBTQ people and increase acceptance of LGBTQ by cisgendered people which creates a positive feedback loop of less suicide/depression instead.

3. Most libertarians I've encountered were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. Everyone thinks they had it tough and worked hard to get to where they were, but have no idea of the hidden battles their peers may face.

4. Being against gay marriage is abhorrent.

5. Being against adoption of children by same sex or trans couples is also abhorrent.

6. Don't let post op trans women that had male testosterone levels past puberty compete in women's sports as a rule, and make exceptions in borderline cases.

On October 29 2017 09:55 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2017 00:21 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 28 2017 23:26 Loco wrote:   On October 28 2017 02:30 wobbly_au wrote: what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts. Coming from the guy whose first words in years to a fellow dejected and struggling LPer were basically these: "dude I don't have time to read a few paragraphs of text in a blog entry, I'm a really busy guy you see -- can you resume the problem in one sentence?" Such a warm-hearted fellow you are. You are he one coming here and speaking from morale high ground and attacking me personally now you want to shame me for not being "nice" enough on an Internet forum? Talk about the transgender issue and how your POV differs from mine or spitfires or anyone else's. I'm pretty sure I haven't personally attacked or insulted you a single time in this thread. You just like to frame criticism in that way because it's easier to handwave it away. I haven't called you a weak-looking, emotionally-retarded gook. That's an insult. See the difference? The irony again of you playing the victim here: nothing I said to you could possibly be more hurtful than the things you said to deathstar. I can't really blame you though, it must be hard to deal with actual dissenting arguments and criticisms when you are so used to being stuck in your own echo chamber, all the while you get your edumacation from YouTube. You're changing the subject again. It's not about your "succinctness". You went to RiKD's blog and before you even tried to give him advice, you asked him to reduce his entire thoughts -- his entire life into a single problem, into one sentence. You apparently have so little empathy that you don't realize how insensitive that is.   instead of long useless words I offer short and succinct advice. Is that a fact or just your biased opinion? Why don't we find out? We can ask RiKD who has posted the most helpful/thoughtful comments on his blog from his perspective. I don't mind putting money on the line.

Stay on point, what has RikD got to do with it?

On October 29 2017 12:07 Daut wrote: Some random thoughts I'll throw down before exiting this time suck thread: 1. Basically every gay or trans person I know says they discovered their respective sexual orientation and gender at a very young age, and the literature I've seen seems to back up that it's nature rather than nurture. 2. While it's not 100% clear that the higher attempted rates of suicide are the direct result of mistreatment and not partially caused by hormones and/or other factors due to being gay/trans, we have to assume that bullying is the catalyst. Note that bullying may not be direct bullying, but even a perception that society mistreats LGBTQ groups can cause enough internal strife to lead to a downward spiral of depression. Earlier education on these issues would both decrease depression in LGBTQ people and increase acceptance of LGBTQ by cisgendered people which creates a positive feedback loop of less suicide/depression instead. 3. Most libertarians I've encountered were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. Everyone thinks they had it tough and worked hard to get to where they were, but have no idea of the hidden battles their peers may face. 4. Being against gay marriage is abhorrent. 5. Being against adoption of children by same sex or trans couples is also abhorrent. 6. Don't let post op trans women that had male testosterone levels past puberty compete in women's sports as a rule, and make exceptions in borderline cases.

Very typical views, actually I was like this before my wife and I had children. Fair enough though.

How did having children change your opinion on those issues? I don't get that.

On October 29 2017 14:05 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 29 2017 12:07 Daut wrote: Some random thoughts I'll throw down before exiting this time suck thread: 1. Basically every gay or trans person I know says they discovered their respective sexual orientation and gender at a very young age, and the literature I've seen seems to back up that it's nature rather than nurture. 2. While it's not 100% clear that the higher attempted rates of suicide are the direct result of mistreatment and not partially caused by hormones and/or other factors due to being gay/trans, we have to assume that bullying is the catalyst. Note that bullying may not be direct bullying, but even a perception that society mistreats LGBTQ groups can cause enough internal strife to lead to a downward spiral of depression. Earlier education on these issues would both decrease depression in LGBTQ people and increase acceptance of LGBTQ by cisgendered people which creates a positive feedback loop of less suicide/depression instead. 3. Most libertarians I've encountered were born on third base and go through life thinking they hit a triple. Everyone thinks they had it tough and worked hard to get to where they were, but have no idea of the hidden battles their peers may face. 4. Being against gay marriage is abhorrent. 5. Being against adoption of children by same sex or trans couples is also abhorrent. 6. Don't let post op trans women that had male testosterone levels past puberty compete in women's sports as a rule, and make exceptions in borderline cases. Very typical views, actually I was like this before my wife and I had children. Fair enough though.

If your current lifestyle situation shaped your views, then other changes to your lifestyle -- such as having a trans relative -- could change them again. I've seen enough examples of right wingers who were anti-universal health care, anti-abortion, or had other conservative views that went out the window once something affected them to know that maximizing your own self interests is not the best way to formulate opinions.

An example:
Representative Tim Murray of Pennsylvania, an anti abortion lawmaker, pushed for his mistress to have an abortion: https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/04/tim-murphy-abortion-mistress-243456

On October 28 2017 02:30 wobbly_au wrote: Baal it seems you don't actually have anything against my position except that I shouldn't knowingly mis use pronouns. That to me is a violation of my free speech. If it looks like a man, sounds like a man im going to call it a man. what a surprise Loco with zero substance in posts.

And you would be wrong to do so.
Some women have 1st and 2ndary male sex characteristics according to definitions of women that have been expanded to include transwomen like wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woman
If a person with 2ndary male sex characteristics is presenting female, if you want to be a friend, you should refer to her as a her without even asking.
Congratulations on being married and a father!