LGBT Poll - Page 9

On October 26 2017 07:55 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On October 26 2017 07:40 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 26 2017 07:38 Liquid`Drone wrote:   On October 25 2017 01:45 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 24 2017 21:15 Liquid`Drone wrote: Wobbly, you keep citing suicide numbers as a reason for why being a transgender should be considered an illness/why it should be discouraged. At the same time, you insist on calling people by their natural genitalia rather than what they identify as. Are you really not able to see that maybe the prevalence of suicide is related to how transgenders are treated by their surroundings rather than some inherent degree of mental illness? Like, 13% of rape victims attempt suicide too. 30% contemplate it. Is this also a consequence of mental illness? Severe bullying has the same impact. Transgenders are both way, way more frequently bullied (and also way more frequently subject to sexual assault) than what the case is for ordinary heterosexuals. Your insistence on using 'he' rather than she because you think gender is determined by birth-genitalia is a (to be fair, rather mild) version of this type of bullying behavior. Do you not understand that your treatment of transgenders literally contributes to what you seemingly describe as the main reason for why you want to discourage transgenderism? Like I said, Im fine with calling deathwing or any trans a pronoun if I get to know them. What I am against is government writing it into anti discrimination bills and forcing me to do it. That said, the science is still out on wether its a illness or not and I tend to think it is. Im not going around actively bullying anyone, I just dont want my liberties and tax money spent on LGBT agenda. Yesturday was my day off andI had alot of fun learning about this stuff, today is back to work so dont be surprised if you guys dont see me for a few days Why do you have to know someone to not be an asshole? How is knowing someone supposed to be a prerequisite and not how you treat people from the get-go? If someone identifies as a woman, how does it negatively influence you to identify them as a woman? I don't get it. They are negatively influenced by you identifying them as a man, but the only way you can possibly get something out of insisting that they are a man, is through some penchant for sadism and enjoyment through their suffering. Not wanting to address someone is being an asshole? Deliberately using the male pronoun because 'in your opinion, it's still a man because he was born with a penis' despite the person insisting that she's a woman and that she wants to be addressed as a woman, yes, that's being an asshole. Not respecting how people want to be addressed in general is, tbh. If I started calling you 'vugly' 'because I think you are very ugly, and that the conservative rigidness of your thought patterns doesn't match the flexibility the nickname 'wobbly' indicates', that'd be me being an asshole, too. Of course there's a limit. You still don't have to respect people's desire to be identified as 'potato' (guess what, this isn't a real thing), and I don't have to respect people's desire to be identified as SuperKing, Lord of All Men. But there are enough real transsexuals out there and it's well documented that they do find it hurtful when people misgender them, that this kind of hypothetical isn't really grounded in reality.

You think the X = mental illness line is drawn at "I think i am a potatoe"

I think the X = mental illness line is drawn at "I have a penis but think I am a woman"

There are plenty of people in the world who identify as animals, objects, historical figures, ghosts, blind people.

People pour drain cleaner in their own eyes to blind themselves because they identify as being blind, people cut their arms off because they dont think it exists, people who identify as a 3 year old baby, people who identify as a cat or a crocodile. To me that is on the same level of illness as someone who wants to chop off their penis, pluck out their hair and receive hormone therapy. I do not feel comfortable calling someone a woman when they look, sound are biologically male. I dont want to be labeled for having a view point that is different, I especially dont want the government to fine me and tell me its discriminatory to not call someone by what they want to identify as...

Anyway, I'm fine with you, baal or anyone who has a different POV than me, but it doesnt appear that the opposite can be said.

Your POV is your POV. The way you have expressed your POV through this thread is consistently hurtful (saying someone must have a mental illness to feel the way they feel) but inconsistently logical or fact based. To be fair, it's probably not an issue of how you express your opinion, rather the opinion itself. However, I could certainly, and I'm sure that's the case for Loco, baal, and everyone else you've discussed with as well, accept that you had the POV you had. Being ignorant is actually totally fine, I'm ignorant of many issues and if you see me discussing the economy (and being wrong, because there, I'm pretty ignorant), I don't have any issues with being confronted on my wrongness.

Sure, I'll prefer if it's done in a polite manner, and maybe your general abrasiveness made everyone confront you in a way that made you solidify your position, making you 'less wobbly' because when we are rude jerks towards you, you grant our arguments less credibility. Either way, while I can accept that not all our attempts at convincing you that you are wrong were done in a 'pedagogically fruitful manner', the problem we continue to have is how you refuse to adjust your POV when confronted with contrary facts - Loco has presented plenty. Also the harping on 'it's a mental illness, this is indicated by how much more prone they are to suicide' line of thought, despite this line of thought contributing to the increased suicide prevalence. And what if it's not 'the government' telling you it's discriminatory, but that it's 'transgenders as a collective group'?

On October 26 2017 08:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: Your POV is your POV. The way you have expressed your POV through this thread is consistently hurtful (saying someone must have a mental illness to feel the way they feel) but inconsistently logical or fact based. To be fair, it's probably not an issue of how you express your opinion, rather the opinion itself. However, I could certainly, and I'm sure that's the case for Loco, baal, and everyone else you've discussed with as well, accept that you had the POV you had. Being ignorant is actually totally fine, I'm ignorant of many issues and if you see me discussing the economy (and being wrong, because there, I'm pretty ignorant), I don't have any issues with being confronted on my wrongness. Sure, I'll prefer if it's done in a polite manner, and maybe your general abrasiveness made everyone confront you in a way that made you solidify your position, making you 'less wobbly' because when we are rude jerks towards you, you grant our arguments less credibility. Either way, while I can accept that not all our attempts at convincing you that you are wrong were done in a 'pedagogically fruitful manner', the problem we continue to have is how you refuse to adjust your POV when confronted with contrary facts - Loco has presented plenty. Also the harping on 'it's a mental illness, this is indicated by how much more prone they are to suicide' line of thought, despite this line of thought contributing to the increased suicide prevalence. And what if it's not 'the government' telling you it's discriminatory, but that it's 'transgenders as a collective group'?

Actually loco had no arguments, he has a way of writing lots of words that insult his opponent which ultimately mean nothing. From my side I also view you guys as the ignorant and unwavering in the light of evidence.

I think its quite obvious despite which side is right on this debate that the side against me has been the one initiating and overusing personal attacks, shaming and speaking from a moral authority and I think that to observant viewers that hurts your cause and points on this subject.

It does look like minds are made on this subject and that is fine by me and I hope it is fine by you guys that there are people who think about this world differently.

curious is being a furry (wanting to bang animals) a mental illness to the opposing side?

On October 26 2017 05:30 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2017 15:29 Spitfiree wrote: Please tell me how going out of the binary gender system makes you mentally healthy. I'm honestly open to arguments. Transgenders going from male to female and vice versa is one thing, but people identifying as a potato is quite another. Where exactly does it stop? Because as an embryo you were a female and then the presence of testosterone defined you as a male fetus, there is undeniable evidence that this process leads to a spectrum of "genders" involving males and female characteristic, undeniable evidence of this is that you are not as manly as lets say an UFC fighter, yet you are not gay, that shows and while you are both categorized broadly as men. So the world isnt just UFC fighters and ballerinas, there are many in between and this happens in all species, so what do you define as "illness"? is an affeminate but straight man ill? or is it just when he wears a skirt? The line is pretty clear, there are two sexes and your sexuality and identity is in that real, if you think you are a Lion or Napoleon then you obviously are making claims beyond what has been observable in our biology

What the fuck are you talking about? You can be a man wearing a skirt and sucking 10 dicks a day, you are still a man. There's isnt a spectrum of sexes. Its okay to be a man that identifies as a woman and vice versa, what about the people that identify as fucking furries? Is that normal to you? If I am a man wearing a skirt, that identifies as a fuckin cat and demand the right that I be treated as a domestic cat otherwise I'll sue you, does that seem normal to you?

You're literally going on the two extremes. No shit different people have different traits, that doesn't mean they go beyond the 2 sexes. You'll go ahead and tell me its genders you're talking about, but quite honestly, it doesn't fucking matter at this point.

And before you say that I'm too extreme, no I'm not fucking too extreme cause that's what we're observing in the US right now. A bunch of mentally ill people that cant cope with everyday life so they make up nonexisting shit to claim rights that are absurd. This goes way beyond transgenderism. What deathstar has gone through is truly terrible for example, and in no world should he/she have gone through that. However what he requested is normal. Furries, on the other side, are simply mentally ill people.

P.S. lol i didn't even read wobbly's last post before writing this

As I've said, there is a huge misunderstanding between left/right and it stems from the definiton of gender, Gender is not sex, of course there are only males and females as a species or call it woman or man, but gender is the socialized aspect, as I mentioned an UFC fighter fits much more a traditional role of a man than you do, that means "manness" is a scale, lets say from 10, super masculine to 0 being very affeminate.

This means that what we call a "man" is a complex system that contains femenine traits to different degrees, so you are admiting isnt just as simple as binary.



As Drone said I am strongly anti SJW, I've debated against them probably more than any of you have, so I understand where you all come from, and its a reactionary thing to the bullshit they spill, but no, admitting our sexuality and gender isnt simple doesnt mean you have to cater to some attention-seeking asshole who wants you to adress them with "they" as pronoun, you can understand reasonable arguments without accepting any dogma.

For example I believe deliberately calling a trans person the wrong pronoun who honestly feels like the opposite sex and actively tries to look like it is very callous, and at the same time I won't bulge to 64 gender theory and to compulsory use of pronouns by law etc, its called forming your own damn opinion.

On October 26 2017 08:45 wobbly_au wrote: curious is being a furry (wanting to bang animals) a mental illness to the opposing side?

there is no evidence that any other species "confuses" itself as other kind of animal unless heavily socialized (dog raised by cats etc), so its definitelly not a biological condition, unless we are talking about feral kids.

so yes, Furries are bullshit, if you call legit trans people by their pronoun it doesnt mean you have to go full retard on other subjects

Okay, I can agree with all of the above yet I'm still confused about your view. I'm fine with a male that wants to be a female and be called a she and vice versa (for the third time...), but apart from that how far do we go? That doesn't really expand the genders to more than 2, it's that the sex and the gender could be two opposites or are we going for gender types of 80% manly 20% feminine? I don't really see the complexity in this. Why would we have to create unique new genders just because some guy wants to wear a skirt? Who stops him from wearing a skirt in the first place?

I understand that the whole idea is to make it easier on those people to fit in society, but this seems like the most ridiculous way to go... not to mention that most languages don't even have a word for gender and it overlaps with sex. You'll be amazed how much that matters

On October 26 2017 06:33 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2017 02:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 25 2017 01:43 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 24 2017 19:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 24 2017 12:39 wobbly_au wrote: I found it hard to find studies but I did come across this one that suggests the opposite of what you claim. That after gender reassignment surgery transgender people had increased suicide rates. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 “Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.” I looked at the studies numbers and they don't make sense. 324 participants. any death 27/99 What does that mean? Why would it be 27 out of 99 instead of 27 out of 324? it says any crime, 60 out of 350. There only 324 participants. Then it says violent crime, 14 out of 61. There are only 60 crimes. wth? You aren't being honest with me or yourself.. Answer the questions. Can you explain the numbers to the study you linked? You also have to find data on pre-op transgender people suicide rates to compare post-op suicide rates to. It will be an indicator of what environment transpeople are living in in Sweden through that time period. dude, i cant teach you to read the results of a study man.. But the gist is that transgenders post-op are even more likely to attempt suicide.. Do your own research before you commit to your own surgery. GL

Wobbly you're an asshole.
That's right you can't explain the results of the study because they don't make sense.
The video and website didn't say one thing about what trans people face.
Such as, banished from communities and families, work discrimination, sexual assault, random acts of violence.
If that shit happened to you, I bet you'd be suicidal as well.

On October 26 2017 20:50 Baalim wrote: As I've said, there is a huge misunderstanding between left/right and it stems from the definiton of gender, Gender is not sex, of course there are only males and females as a species or call it woman or man, but gender is the socialized aspect, as I mentioned an UFC fighter fits much more a traditional role of a man than you do, that means "manness" is a scale, lets say from 10, super masculine to 0 being very affeminate. This means that what we call a "man" is a complex system that contains femenine traits to different degrees, so you are admiting isnt just as simple as binary. As Drone said I am strongly anti SJW, I've debated against them probably more than any of you have, so I understand where you all come from, and its a reactionary thing to the bullshit they spill, but no, admitting our sexuality and gender isnt simple doesnt mean you have to cater to some attention-seeking asshole who wants you to adress them with "they" as pronoun, you can understand reasonable arguments without accepting any dogma. For example I believe deliberately calling a trans person the wrong pronoun who honestly feels like the opposite sex and actively tries to look like it is very callous, and at the same time I won't bulge to 64 gender theory and to compulsory use of pronouns by law etc, its called forming your own damn opinion.

The only thing I disagree with is, people should be called based on their biological sex and you want to call them on there identified gender. I'm not deliberately being callous or trying to harm, I am just holding my position that a man is a man and a woman is a woman whether someone or everyone takes offense to biological truth is not for me to worry about. Im not going to entertain mental illness because someone born a man is trying REALLY hard to not be one, if you have male chromosomes you are still a man.

I will continue to call people based on biological sex as it is the easiest way to do so. If people want to chop their dicks off as long as they do it in private and dont force me to call them a woman then im fine with that. I also dont want tax money spent to promote LGBT way of life as it is disadvantages to society and also they might find a cure to the mess if we weren't so PC and bothered to look into the science of it all.

So I dont think point needs to be discussed further.

On October 26 2017 20:53 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 26 2017 08:45 wobbly_au wrote: curious is being a furry (wanting to bang animals) a mental illness to the opposing side? there is no evidence that any other species "confuses" itself as other kind of animal unless heavily socialized (dog raised by cats etc), so its definitelly not a biological condition, unless we are talking about feral kids. so yes, Furries are bullshit, if you call legit trans people by their pronoun it doesnt mean you have to go full retard on other subjects

Seems arbitary where you've chosen to draw that line as there are plenty of traits that are unique to human species but still biological.

On October 27 2017 01:20 deathstar wrote: Show nested quote + On October 26 2017 06:33 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 25 2017 02:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 25 2017 01:43 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 24 2017 19:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 24 2017 12:39 wobbly_au wrote: I found it hard to find studies but I did come across this one that suggests the opposite of what you claim. That after gender reassignment surgery transgender people had increased suicide rates. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 “Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.” I looked at the studies numbers and they don't make sense. 324 participants. any death 27/99 What does that mean? Why would it be 27 out of 99 instead of 27 out of 324? it says any crime, 60 out of 350. There only 324 participants. Then it says violent crime, 14 out of 61. There are only 60 crimes. wth? You aren't being honest with me or yourself.. Answer the questions. Can you explain the numbers to the study you linked? You also have to find data on pre-op transgender people suicide rates to compare post-op suicide rates to. It will be an indicator of what environment transpeople are living in in Sweden through that time period. dude, i cant teach you to read the results of a study man.. But the gist is that transgenders post-op are even more likely to attempt suicide.. Do your own research before you commit to your own surgery. GL Wobbly you're an asshole. That's right you can't explain the results of the study because they don't make sense. The video and website didn't say one thing about what trans people face. Such as, banished from communities and families, work discrimination, sexual assault, random acts of violence. If that shit happened to you, I bet you'd be suicidal as well.

You are being deliberately dishonest with yourself and others.

Earlier in this thread you linked everyone to an article that you said had evidence that post-op trangenders would have same suicide rate as general population. I did not find one sentence that supported your claim, I did however find a study that said the opposite and now you claim the study doesnt make sense?

You lied, got caught and now you dont want to admit to the data that is very low move to pull. I think this issue is too personal for you to look at it with out bias.

Regarding the study, like all studies it has a control group and if you dont know what that is please google it before saying its wrong. In short all the things you mentioned are controlled for the only difference between the two groups is they did the surgery and the suicide rates still went up.

YOu are a fucking moron (this is simply retaliation for calling me an asshole)

P.S dont take the surgery before really understanding the data from that study and other studies.

On October 27 2017 01:54 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On October 27 2017 01:20 deathstar wrote:   On October 26 2017 06:33 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 25 2017 02:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 25 2017 01:43 wobbly_au wrote:   On October 24 2017 19:49 deathstar wrote:   On October 24 2017 12:39 wobbly_au wrote: I found it hard to find studies but I did come across this one that suggests the opposite of what you claim. That after gender reassignment surgery transgender people had increased suicide rates. http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885 “Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.” I looked at the studies numbers and they don't make sense. 324 participants. any death 27/99 What does that mean? Why would it be 27 out of 99 instead of 27 out of 324? it says any crime, 60 out of 350. There only 324 participants. Then it says violent crime, 14 out of 61. There are only 60 crimes. wth? You aren't being honest with me or yourself.. Answer the questions. Can you explain the numbers to the study you linked? You also have to find data on pre-op transgender people suicide rates to compare post-op suicide rates to. It will be an indicator of what environment transpeople are living in in Sweden through that time period. dude, i cant teach you to read the results of a study man.. But the gist is that transgenders post-op are even more likely to attempt suicide.. Do your own research before you commit to your own surgery. GL Wobbly you're an asshole. That's right you can't explain the results of the study because they don't make sense. The video and website didn't say one thing about what trans people face. Such as, banished from communities and families, work discrimination, sexual assault, random acts of violence. If that shit happened to you, I bet you'd be suicidal as well. You are being deliberately dishonest with yourself and others. Earlier in this thread you linked everyone to an article that you said had evidence that post-op trangenders would have same suicide rate as general population. I did not find one sentence that supported your claim, I did however find a study that said the opposite and now you claim the study doesnt make sense? You lied, got caught and now you dont want to admit to the data that is very low move to pull. I think this issue is too personal for you to look at it with out bias. Regarding the study, like all studies it has a control group and if you dont know what that is please google it before saying its wrong. In short all the things you mentioned are controlled for the only difference between the two groups is they did the surgery and the suicide rates still went up. YOu are a fucking moron (this is simply retaliation for calling me an asshole)

The article I linked showed that transgender people who passed as cisgender people had the same suicide rate as the general population.
I said I couldn't find an article about post-op trans people.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-hea...ttempts-substance-abuse-idUSKCN0YI22T
https://thinkprogress.org/study-sugge...y-be-killing-their-kids-a2f06075c288/
The study, conducted by researchers at the City University of New York, used data from the 2011 National Transgender Discrimination Survey (NTDS), which found that 41 percent of respondents had attempted suicide, far above the national average?—?1.6 percent of the general population. According to the new analysis, how trans people have been treated by their family was a significant factor for that outcome:

Maybe I am a moron, maybe you are an asshole.
I think the Swedish study is bogus. They didn't survey any of the trans people, if they have experienced work discrimination, intimidation and violence, family rejection, healthcare and housing discrimination.
Why wouldn't those be included factors in a study about trans suicide? The articles I linked showed that suicide rates go up when experiencing these awful things.
A lot of post-op transgender's families won't speak to them after surgery.
I wish for a single transgender voice from your end. Every suicide has a story. Lets lump them all together in aggregate and then say its because of bottom surgery when its other factors causing it.

Also another topic of what does it mean that someone identifies as a different gender? Do we just address the social aspect of that? Is it possible to address only the social aspect without extending to bureaucracy? For example:



Do we let Emily compete with professional female athletes?

You can't discuss only a single side of the whole topic and hope everything will fit in perfectly like a domino effect because it just won't. I get that we all want to live in this super open society with no borders and social restrictions and blah blah, but that will simply never work due to our nature as humans. Social views are the foundation of our society, changing them changes everything in the system above and clearly no one has clue how to do that at this point. Instead of fighting for rights, maybe try and introduce a new solid social structure that's transparent enough and viable on every new level of the hierarchy?

The absurdity of the LGBT is the fact that they want the first place medal without even putting in the groundwork. This topic isn't as simple as all of you try to make it sound.

poor Emily.

transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible.

Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible.

https://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgend...ing_told_by_parents_that_my_identity/

That pic u posted spitfire looks like 4 chan meme

That pic is obviously reactionary propaganda. You can bet there are people who take that seriously too. In the event that someone here does: there are rules in place to compete as transgender, you can't just say "it's my identity" and get a free pass. They have to check your hormone levels to see you've transitioned and you can compete without an unfair advantage. This can be tricky in some sports because there are still advantages if you have transitioned late in life. Unfortunately, there is no easy solution.

I love the irony of wobbly playing the victim card so damn much while this is supposed to be the SJW trademark. I also love how he keeps repeating that he has posted evidence that it's pretty clear that it's a mental illness, when all he's done is post reactionary YouTube videos and argue a false cause fallacy. Who cares about the fact that the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association both don't pathologize transgender people, my intuition is right, goddamnit! There is too much evidence on the YouTubes! Why bother with something as trivial as the scientific consensus when you can just listen to Ben Shapiro and Black Pigeon Speaks and handwave all that away?

And lol Spitfiree. "This topic isn't as simple as all of you try to make it sound."
> Uses the most simple-minded ammunition against trans people possible in the form of a meme/propaganda picture.

I don't think it's a simple issue at all, that doesn't mean some opinions aren't simply wrong and poorly thought out. Suffices to say, if you guys were just trying to demonstrate the inherent complexity of all of this, you have failed miserably. A lot of the stuff you guys have posted in opposition to LGBT folks are logical fallacies, basic misunderstandings of human psychology and biology and some immature "gotcha" comments. Your main issue Spitfiree seems to be a worry that everything will turn to chaos once you've "allowed" people to not longer fit the binary. It's really funny to me. It really plays into the whole Jordan Peterson thing that these people are somehow all ideologically motivated and you don't owe them basic respect because they don't think Ayn Rand is a good philosopher or something. If it's not about that, it's about extreme slippery slopes like someone asking you to refer to them by a different name and pronoun for every day of the week, or call them "Your Highness". These are not serious arguments, they're distractions.

On October 27 2017 13:51 Liquid`Drone wrote: transgenders can't compete with women. there I solved that issue. Then maybe every 5 years you get a Caster Semenya case where someone is kinda inbetween and you need to make a kinda arbitrary decision. Maybe it ends up being unfair in those individual cases. It's still way preferable than generic lack of acceptance. I see this as a consistent argument from conservatives, that they need societal rules that are fixed, rigid, static, but the way I see society, that's just not how society works. It's a constant process of evolution of thought, constant adjustment of mindsets, mostly everything (meaningful to discuss) is arbitrary to some degree. No law is perfect, there will always be individual cases of injustice, the goal is to have as few cases as possible. Btw Caster Semenya is an anagram for Yes a secret man and I think that's absolutely incredible.

Agree,

society constantly develops and we're not talking about basic acceptance. At least I'm not - its kind of obvious that there s no going back from that anymore, regardless of whether the most extreme right wingers like it or not. The direction of the whole "evolution" of society is to be address though, since the "transgenders wont compete " is far from the reality. People getting sued cause they are not calling some retard "they" and shit like that are very real and as wobbly said, California has decriminalized HIV spreading ... thats the type of shit going in the USA and as every other "trend" it will come to Europe, you can already observe similiar situations in Germany.

Loco where exactly did I ever express a lack of basic respect, do tell. I kinda cba reading your posts in this thread cause they are just words with no actual content.

And simply LOL if you thought the meme was anything else than a joke. It's meant to show an absurd situation which is now a reality shitton of men that identify as women have entered and compeltely destroyed competitions. Is that something that deserves respect? I'm not addressing ALL of the transgenders. I'm addressing the ones abusing the system because they were granted inadequate privileges, are you that shallow to comprehend such a simple point?

edit: Considering those cases are becoming a "standard" thing in society I dont really think they are rare ocassions and distractions.