Prisoners Dilemma - Page 6

I'm 90% sure it should be "ship in", but even though, I really wanted to write it as "chip in", since it felt cuter xD

Marius i'm not sure if you're talking to me, but no where i'm saying my moral values are perfect, i'm just trying to point out choosing the steal option isn't ethically correct, that is all. No where i say what i would do if i were to enter the show.

^ No, was hinting at capaoeoaeno guy.

"that is all"

You've already decided this? What's ethically correct for you is the same for everyone else? Is it 100% objective, not even a 5% chance it can be subjective?

I think it's super fine and awesome to lie, tbh, lie a lot, it's a good and liberating feeling. After all, if you believe the lie, you're in on it =p


Ps, choosing the Steal option in this scenario was 100% correct, the other dude got outplayed and took split. She herself has to decide how that feels afterwards.

I'd do the same thing, and then I'd find out more about the guy, and depending on what I see fit, I'd maybe give him 14.000 pound or something around there, depends. If he's rich he gets nothing. That's just so I won't lose any sleep or feel bad about it. Kinda where I'm at. If she can take it all and not feel bad about it, the peopel who judge her, call her names, talk trash about her for doing so are people with far worse moral/etics than she has lol.

PPs, if he have sick kids and is in real trouble, my lie will feel more deceptive and malicious, and that's where I personally draw the line. I have to make sure it never comes to deception, or as something I see as malicious. Then I might give him half of it anyway, but only if the kids were really sick.

PPPs, (not sure if you can do that lol. Feeling ballzy). If the guy feels entitled to act crazy, threaten me, and goes nasty on me, I might not give him anything, since that's his more true colors. If he just gets sad and like, awhh man, I suck, or just cries. I'm much more inclined to give him. Although that's not that smart lol. But then again, I can be a dumb fuck too a lot of the time.

marius, if you admit you would give back a part of money in some cases, then you admit there is something ethically wrong with going for the steal option. You admit in some cases your conscience would be hurt and you would have to give some of it back.

If it was 100% ethically correct, then you wouldn't bother at all. In poker do you ever give back money to the people you win pots from? of course not, because in poker there is nothing wrong about it. Actually in any games where you truly does own the other player there is no reasons to share the prize with him, but in this game its different.

On April 23 2012 12:08 Floofy wrote: Andrew assuming your right, then why would anyone ever pick split? If there is nothing wrong with going for the steal option, then why the hell not go for it. and then, if everyone picks steal, whats the point of the show?

If everyone picked steal, the show would still be a success because it entertains the viewers. The host of the show would also be happy since he doesn't have to pay the jackpot. Reason why players are hesitant to pick steal is because the word "steal" deludes them from distinguishing game and reality.

I want to say that I wasn't being completely serious in my first post. I do believe it would've been scummy if he did pick steal and chose not to split the prize. However that's just my view since honor means a lot in my world. All in all, I think the guy in the video played the game right. He manipulated his enemy into picking the action he wanted. He was the winner and the heros have the option to be bounteous. He graciously chose to split the prize in return of honoring the "ethic code of society" and looking like a man to viewers who can't distinguish game and reality

Floofy i hope you are trolling for your sake

On April 23 2012 12:59 Floofy wrote: marius, if you admit you would give back a part of money in some cases, then you admit there is something ethically wrong with going for the steal option. You admit in some cases your conscience would be hurt and you would have to give some of it back. If it was 100% ethically correct, then you wouldn't bother at all. In poker do you ever give back money to the people you win pots from? of course not, because in poker there is nothing wrong about it. Actually in any games where you truly does own the other player there is no reasons to share the prize with him, but in this game its different.

I also "admitted" in some cases I wouldn't, what's the point here? (I might even take extra glee and rofl inside if I see that the person I'm competing with turned out to be a total asshole).

In poker I've given money back several times lol, you're just putting words in my mouth at the top, and in the middle you're just rambling. Let's stay on focus =p
(I've payed back money to irl friends when I've cleaned them when they were semi drunk. And in HU a guy I took for 16bi, I gave him back one just for the lolz).

Maybe not said so eloquent, that if yours, or someone else's values are different, it doesn't matter as long as they follow their own moral compass. I explained briefly how I decide. If I was a more macho, extraverted kind of guy, I might have taken everything without giving a shit, or I might feel so bad that I give half and ask for forgiveness. It's not black or white.

After thinking awhile I could think of lots more scenario's in Poker as well. A russian stranger, I liked the guy, but he kept losing, after he's rebought for the 10th time, I told him he should call it a night, he just kept spewing and most of it was going to me. It was too much, I felt it was a good time to stop taking his money.

Even though you're a coldhearted bastard, and always "steal" people's money at the poker table, don't go putting your fucked up, skewed etics on to other people. You thief.

+ Show Spoiler +

Its only in exceptionnal cases that you would give back to people in poker... and you are probably an exceptionnal person for doing it since i think the majority of us does not give money back to strangers in poker.

if i were to play that game and i thought my opponement was very likely to pick steal, i think my strategy would be to ask the other person that we both choose each other's balls. If he refuse, i tell him then im going to pick steal 100%. If he doesn't pick the ball i told him to pick, then i pick steal 100% again. This would force the other person to respect my deal.

in this scenario, 50% of the time i go home with nothing, 25% i get the whole prize, 25% i get half the prize.

This gives me about 0.375X EV of the prize money.

If instead i choose split everytime, i would need to convince the other person of picking split too at least 75% of the time to make as much money, which is not realistic....

Stop trolling. It´s insanely stupid not to pick steal. If it contradicts with your morals, fine, just give the other person half of the money afterwards then.

/thread

On April 23 2012 12:10 Mariuslol wrote: Besides, on average people tell 40 lies the first 5 minute they talk to a stranger.

this is absolutely wrong and absurd

On April 23 2012 12:59 Floofy wrote: marius, if you admit you would give back a part of money in some cases, then you admit there is something ethically wrong with going for the steal option. You admit in some cases your conscience would be hurt and you would have to give some of it back. If it was 100% ethically correct, then you wouldn't bother at all. In poker do you ever give back money to the people you win pots from? of course not, because in poker there is nothing wrong about it. Actually in any games where you truly does own the other player there is no reasons to share the prize with him, but in this game its different.

hah, superlol of marius to say its ethically correct and say that he might feel bad in some cases

just like you would feel bad for killing someone, but wouldn't if you find out the guy is a raper or murderer or w/e, it still makes killing ethically incorrect, your judgement of which cases you feel bad or not is based on which person you wouldn't bother to do harm to

On April 23 2012 11:09 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2012 01:24 cariadon wrote: What is ethical for one can at the same time be unethical for the other. There is no perfect answer for how to solve this problem. You can stop pretending to be R.Crowe in "A beautiful mind" now. so now you are saying it is ethical for some people to do steal, and it is not ethical for some other people to steal, but yet when someone here on LP says its ethical you say SOLID POST and when someone say its unethical you call him the biggest idiot ever.

Andrewsongs posts got my praise for the ftp reference not for his choice in said game. You, Floofy, are an idiot because of what you say and how (poorly) you say it. Stop telling me what to think, I will make up my own mind. Nowhere have i stated stealing is the superior play. I'm ok with people who choose steal, i'm also ok with people who would never steal. If you (Floofy) still do not get my point you are either capaneo posting from Floofys account or just plain stupid.

On April 23 2012 11:09 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2012 01:24 cariadon wrote: What is ethical for one can at the same time be unethical for the other. There is no perfect answer for how to solve this problem. You can stop pretending to be R.Crowe in "A beautiful mind" now. so now you are saying it is ethical for some people to do steal, and it is not ethical for some other people to steal, but yet when someone here on LP says its ethical you say SOLID POST and when someone say its unethical you call him the biggest idiot ever. Yes some people's conscience will not them it is wrong to steal in that game (some contestant who stole clearly didn't seem to think what they did was wrong) but that doesn't mean it is right. In real life, there are countless examples of people who did horrible things and didn't even think it was wrong... I don't think having broken moral values justify doing wrong things. Anyways, for the most part people who stole clearly went against their own moral values and knew what they did was wrong, hence the whole point of the show. if society generally considered stealing is fine on that show then the whole show would be stupid as fuck. Just like Daut said in his first post.... since daut thinks it is ethically correct to steal, he quickly thought the whole show is stupid as fuck since then everyone would go steal every times (no reasons to go for split if steal is ethically correct).

If i truly believe stealing in the tv show was perfectly fine am i wrong ? Are my moral values broken if i choose steal (it doesn't contradict my own moral values) ?

Consider this. If we were playing the game right now i would pick steal. If you pick split i get the money. If you pick steal your logic is flawed. (Justifying picking steal under any circumstances means it is a viable option.)

Let us assume you know i pick steal and you decide to pick steal aswell. What happens if i change my pick to split. See what i did there? You become the one who steals. I hope this helps you understand why there are multiple right answers to this problem. You can show everyone on tv you have high moral standards and are ethically correct. I walk away with a pile of money and have no regrets, be at peace. Game over !

this is ridic

part of the game is lying and trying to manipulate the other person. telling the other person we would split after is part of the game not metagame

the guy from the video should have stolen then refused to split. i dont see how the greek dude should expect anything

It easy to say stealing is the +ev choice blablahblah behind the keyboard and having no connection to these stranger but I think some of you guys would change your mind once you start to see that these are actually real fucking people. If they told you that they needed the money for their kids cancer treatment and their life depended on this money would you still be able to steal? just something to think about.

prisoners dilema 2

you have just been sentenced to go to prison and Floofy is your cellmate

1: kill floofy
2: kill yourself.

On April 24 2012 02:55 aCa_ wrote: It easy to say stealing is the +ev choice blablahblah behind the keyboard and having no connection to these stranger but I think some of you guys would change your mind once you start to see that these are actually real fucking people. If they told you that they needed the money for their kids cancer treatment and their life depended on this money would you still be able to steal? just something to think about.

and then they steal

not saying it would be easy, my point is that when you are disassociated with the person it is much easier to hurt them/not care like most of the people here posting here from another world away. And if the situation came about in real life their choice may change. Do you guys really think that these people that go onto these shows are all retarded as shit? I'm sure that they know the math and how choosing steal is the better choice however it may be harder to do that when the person you are about to hurt is right in front of you.

If they are hurt cause they lost in a game they are weakminded idiots( anyone would feel bad short-term but i doubt anyone would give a fuck long-term anyways ) . Obv if its an extreme case where they actually need the money badly i would still steal and donate a large % if they provide some sort of confirmation. And yes you would be astonished how stupid people are so i doubt they think about the math. Dont make the matter so dramatic. You are in a game to win money if you have trouble playing the game you shouldnt be there at all :/

On April 23 2012 22:22 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2012 12:10 Mariuslol wrote: Besides, on average people tell 40 lies the first 5 minute they talk to a stranger. this is absolutely wrong and absurd

It's an objective truth, if you see it differently that's just your subjective opinion of it, an utility xD

For instance "ohh, you like to read??" "Yeaah, I read a lot" <--- One lie... "What kind of stuff do you read" (Here we ship in what we think will put us in the best light).

Ahh okay cool, So what "blabla do you prefer" (Ahh I prefer, and "here we put in something a little more noble, cooler, more awesome, so that'll we'll come on better footing).

And so it goes...

xD