Prisoners Dilemma - Page 5

there is a large difference between all of the games you mentionned and this one.

In other games, such as poker, risk, werewolf, etc, you don't have to make pacts to win the game. If anything, in these games, making a pact is actually usually against the rules (in poker its called collusion, in risk its usually forbidden on most sites, etc). If everyone plays on their own, whitout caring about others, the best player will win, which is fine.

This tv show is a completly different type of game, where if everyone plays "the best strategy" and plays in a selfish way, everyone loose. Its not "the best player will win", its nobody will win. Therefore the only way to make this a profitable game is to make a pact.

Also what you seem to forget is even if its called a game, people are playing it for life changing ammounts of money, so its not "just a game". Again, this reminds me so much of the experiment where scientist made a "game" of abusive jail guards, vs prisonners, and people playing the jail guards did awfull things because "hey its just a game". They had to stop the experiment because it was going way too far. Even if something is whitin the rules, its not always right, see what nazis did in ww2.

Also i think my poker example is good. If i go in a tournament, get to 10 000 chips, and then i see caleb at my table with 10 000 chips too and i offer him to share profits to reduce our variance, i don't see how its right to break my word.

Finally, i think the best way for you guys to understand is to imagine this is really happening to you and someone else who thinks in a similar way as you. If Nazgul and Talentedtom were to go on that show and the prize was 10 millions, would you both really pick steal? wouldn't you guys try to make a real pact instead of having 10M go to waste?

I haven't said anywhere how I would play this, Floofy. It's irrelevant.

capaneo how is the hollocaust even close to any of this ?
I ll ignore the reasons which led to the hollocaust and just go straight to the point.
Killing millions of innocent people directly affects them ( well obviously ). While playing a game where you have both the options to steal or split to win money doesnt. Its literally EV0 in the worst case scenario you dont win a thing and you continue living the same way you did without making changes based on the game or you do win money and that changes some aspect of your life ( obv depending on the money you win you can either buy a bicycle or a car or start a small business w/e you get the point ). Now since you only have those 2 options where Split gives you -EV and steal gives you EV+ while you make everything possible for the other guy to lose including using deception. As far im concerned the chick that won the money donated them all to charitable organisations which makes her moraility level high as f*** ( obv that probably didnt happen but the main point is it doesnt matter ). Someone previously gave the fish example and ill go a bit deeper in it. Imagine you r playing a huge fish at 200nl he's lost 5-6 buy ins and is down to his last 200eu, now he writes in the chat that its his last money and he wont be able to pay his rent if he loses this. Will you stop playing him? Now most people would write back to the fish to stop playing coz its bad for him and thats fine, but if he continues to play will you stop ? I know its a bit of a different scenario, but it puts you in the direct same moral dilemma ( obv we take everything the fish wrote as an absolute truth about this case ).
Deception just plays a huge part of this game if you want to extract max value. Actually it probably makes you a bit shallow if you think that the chick looks bad on TV cause of the way she acted. She just made everything possible within the rules of the game to win thats all. If you are talking about morality then you have no right to judge her at all. As far as im concerned she donated the money to a non profit organisation or invested them in her kid's education. You cant base your opinion on someone on what you've seen from them on a game show thats ridiculous and far from moral

Normally in games like these you aren't allowed to bring factors outside of the game into play

This sums the fundamentals of the game.


And honestly anyone even mentioning the hollocaust as an example deserves a ban. That has absolutely nothing in common with the game show. Hollocaust is an aftermath of many things and just cause the soldiers were given orders which they treated as a job doesnt make it right in the bigger picture. Also most of those soldiers were forced to do the deeds they've done or they d end up the same way as their captives. Whole situation was played extremely "well" ( not well .. but well well ) psychologically by Hitler and ppl behind him. They pretty much exploited the human mind to bring out the worst of it. If he had done it for something good who knows where Germany would stand today.


+ Floofy dafuq Obviously the bigger the prize the better to make a pact however playing it like the guy in the 1st vid is probably best in that situation. Just because you are closer to winning 10 millions doesnt mean you've won them and it doesnt directly affect your life. Having a chance for something is far different from having it. Thoughts such as "So close, yet so far" are not written pointlessly if you get it... Maybe thats the biggest problem about the discussion we're having you dont make a difference between the chance of having something and actually having it

After years of capaneo and floofy posts i am still amazed at people taking the time to write detailed answers to their attempts at something more than what belongs in the trash. One fool can ask more questions than a hundred wise men can answer. If this is some inside joke i am not getting then i'm feeding the troll here.
Floofy and Capaneo start a random topic or join an existing one just to start throwing around random ideas and get a MONOLOGUE going. The shit they stir up is uncomprehendable. Constantly bringing in new variables, irrelevant babblings of an infant, making up shit, writing twenty line paragraphs of brain diarrhoea, etc.
History has shown us the two culprits are unable to learn and better themselves.
So fellow posters i urge you to think of this image before replying to the village clowns.

cariadon i'm sorry but me and capanao aren't "the weird ones", you guys are the weird ones for thinking this is ethically right to go for the steal option in this game. Just read youtubes comments for any of those videos where people steal, nearly everybody thinks people who steal are huge assholes that should burn in a fire. Most people actually agree with me and capaneo, it just seems like all those years of poker have played with you guys's moral values.

Go watch a poker video where some pro did an amazing bluff, look at the comments, and then go watch a golden balls video where someone "bluffed" someone for a lot of money, the comments are going to be completly different.

Tbh i know i am wasting my time with you cariadon but i think some people here can understand, hence my reply.

i think this is kinda the idea behind the show, watch people make super shady decisions. If stealing was ethically right then everyone would go for steal and the show would have little interest. Also its obvious a lot of the contestant (those who go for split, and those who go for steal but feels bad about it) agrees with me and capaneo. if they thought going for steal was ethically right, then they wouldn't hesitate to do it since its pretty obvious its the most +EV play.

woulda been so much funnier if the other guy tilt shoved steal into the guys bluff split

Most posters on LP agree that capaneo and floofy are huge natural born trollers. You have the severest of conditions and you don't even realise it. Most people would agree to that statement so it has to be true. I believe i am invincible when i speak on the majorities behalf. Like take for example religion, most people believe in that stuff ergo it must be the truth. I want to believe one day we can purge the messiahs preaching incoherent crap in the eternity of a permaban.

Ok so cariadon, if stealing in that game is clearly 100% ethically correct, then explain why so many people choose split. they hate money? you think they don't understand "steal" will get them more money? come on you are the troll here, its obvious the majority of people outside of this site thinks its not an ethical to do to pick the steal option. If people didn't consider their moral values they would all go for steal whitout a doubt.

Also, if you guys were right, then that show would be pointless since everyone would pick steal and it would be really boring.

Floofy your stupidity provides you with infinite ammunition of verbal bullets. There is more than one correct answer for this question - try and proccess that. Or better yet ignore everything and try shooting at me from a different angle.

Your trying to say its both ethical and unethical to steal in that game....?

What is ethical for one can at the same time be unethical for the other. There is no perfect answer for how to solve this problem. You can stop pretending to be R.Crowe in "A beautiful mind" now.

before watching all of the other videos I would have went with split everytime because I naturally believe people when they say they will split but after watching most of the other clips for that show I am now just like Fuck everyone and split every time.

LOL guy played the game brilliantly and decided to be a little bitch. He obviously didn't have his bankroll stuck on full tilt. He did everything right besides picking split. It's dog eat dog world. Your in the game to kill. Gotta kill first or get ur bankroll stolen. Atleast when u pick steal he ain't going home with money. No1 fks me again ty howard

My god what is wrong with the replies. To say that it's wrong to lie and steal in this game sounds pathetic as asking for money back after losing your case money in a poker game.

Solid couple of posts right there.

I would knife the stealing prick in a backalley for 100k.

Always the metagame to consider in every game.

On April 23 2012 01:24 cariadon wrote: What is ethical for one can at the same time be unethical for the other. There is no perfect answer for how to solve this problem. You can stop pretending to be R.Crowe in "A beautiful mind" now.

so now you are saying it is ethical for some people to do steal, and it is not ethical for some other people to steal, but yet when someone here on LP says its ethical you say SOLID POST and when someone say its unethical you call him the biggest idiot ever.

Yes some people's conscience will not them it is wrong to steal in that game (some contestant who stole clearly didn't seem to think what they did was wrong) but that doesn't mean it is right. In real life, there are countless examples of people who did horrible things and didn't even think it was wrong... I don't think having broken moral values justify doing wrong things. Anyways, for the most part people who stole clearly went against their own moral values and knew what they did was wrong, hence the whole point of the show. if society generally considered stealing is fine on that show then the whole show would be stupid as fuck. Just like Daut said in his first post.... since daut thinks it is ethically correct to steal, he quickly thought the whole show is stupid as fuck since then everyone would go steal every times (no reasons to go for split if steal is ethically correct).

On April 23 2012 11:09 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On April 23 2012 01:24 cariadon wrote: What is ethical for one can at the same time be unethical for the other. There is no perfect answer for how to solve this problem. You can stop pretending to be R.Crowe in "A beautiful mind" now. so now you are saying it is ethical for some people to do steal, and it is not ethical for some other people to steal, but yet when someone here on LP says its ethical you say SOLID POST and when someone say its unethical you call him the biggest idiot ever. Yes some people's conscience will not them it is wrong to steal in that game (some contestant who stole clearly didn't seem to think what they did was wrong) but that doesn't mean it is right. In real life, there are countless examples of people who did horrible things and didn't even think it was wrong... I don't think having broken moral values justify doing wrong things. Anyways, for the most part people who stole clearly went against their own moral values and knew what they did was wrong, hence the whole point of the show. if society generally considered stealing is fine on that show then the whole show would be stupid as fuck. Just like Daut said in his first post.... since daut thinks it is ethically correct to steal, he quickly thought the whole show is stupid as fuck since then everyone would go steal every times (no reasons to go for split if steal is ethically correct).

Maybe you should take a step back and try looking from a wider point of view. The word STEAL is clogging your mind. If the options were switched to ONE and TWO instead of SPLIT and STEAL, the word steal would not even be discussed.

Sure this may be life changing money for the players but in the end it's clearly a game with a objective to outplay your competitor. You need him to pick option one or u lose and only ammunition you have is your tongue. The jackpot wasn't provided because the players were ethnical kings of society. Ultimately the players were here to entertain the viewers.

Andrew assuming your right, then why would anyone ever pick split? If there is nothing wrong with going for the steal option, then why the hell not go for it. and then, if everyone picks steal, whats the point of the show?

From my experience, the people who talk a little louder have these rules, principles, (kind of shit crap they've gotten from watching movies and shows, maybe enviornment when they were kids, programmed, now thinking "ahh thiz is me, my etics and codes lol I am such a gud awsum person". They also like to be really vocal about it, semi-touchy one might say, hinting at (uuu, I have such high moral, blabla, that'z what u fucking do, I'm a stupid mtr fkr). Ok, they don't really say that last part, but I'm pretty sure that's how they are portrayed by the silence around them when they make these stupid speeches. (The speeches in themselves aren't necessarily stupid, I'm just painting a subjective picture).


I think I semi-believed it when younger, then I found out those are the guys struggling, those are the guys with skeletons in the closet. The kinda guys who would cheat with your girl if they had the chance, the guys who'd steal 3000k laying around if they felt sure you'd never know. Or under the right circumstances, if they were talking with a crew in which they want recognition, even respect, and they could gain "status" or feel superior by putting you down in some way, they would, if they felt confident you wouldn't find out about it.

I've often gotten the impression by family, friends and retards that I seem to have a very high moral compass, but I don't go thinking about it, talking about it. When weird situations arise, you just go with it. And I'd try and win all the money in that gameshow 100% lol.



Oh, and here is a quote from something I found fairly amusing xD:

And if you do sth bad to me, or you mess up somehow, I will remember it and I will come for you 10x worse. might not be right away, might be 2-5 years down the line. But you will pay a price sometime. And usually the price is very high.

Here you're being a bit of a noob. This is wrong on so many levels.

Besides, on average people tell 40 lies the first 5 minute they talk to a stranger.

And last one:

Because people trust me, so when I say someone is an asshole or a sketchy guy, everyone knows I have a REALLY good reason, and they treat him as such.

Reading this makes me think there's a relative high chance this might all be a level. If it's not, you're being a noob here as well. Your moral compass seem to be around low Gold, but I'm not 100% sure, but a fairly good guesstimate from that post I've quoted you on I'd say.


(Hehe, when I saw so many people were posting, and the arguments and drama, I wanted to chip in as well xD)