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Rake-Free & Ran By the Poker Community? - Page 6

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Helmet   Philippines. Dec 16 2010 23:07. Posts 930

made my girlfriend wet right there.

People who are brash and not image focused, people who are the opposite of sycophantic are maybe stereotypically the most trustworthy. - Steal City 

whamm!   Albania. Dec 16 2010 23:42. Posts 11625

too tired to explain why fish will play and new types of players will be curious, i will just try help the team with whatever ideas i can come up with. the good thing with open source projects is that it only becomes a failure when the core team who conceptualized it die or decide to shelf it, and even then alot of passionate ppl who find the project viable will pick it up and develop it. anyway good luck and if this works out itll be better for everyone im sure.


Helmet   Philippines. Dec 16 2010 23:59. Posts 930

even if the core team who started it "retires", it can still continue if interested coders around the world still tweak/fix/improve the source code. it is just a matter of awareness and interest for the project. hence in open source the community "owns" the software.

it's like "by the people for the people" kind of movement.

People who are brash and not image focused, people who are the opposite of sycophantic are maybe stereotypically the most trustworthy. - Steal City 

royalsu   Canada. Dec 17 2010 00:35. Posts 3233


  On December 16 2010 22:06 Helmet wrote:
Show nested quote +



imagine pokerstars, ftp.. etc.. etc.. as these "big casinos". in those "big casinos", you get fpp pros, rake back pros, those solid grinders. now, sometimes you just wanna play poker with your friends, have fun and relax. where do you go? to a "home game", where poker is pure, fun and the way it should be. so you get your bit coin... log in that "home game" site without rake, play for a few hours then withdraw and log out.

so the whole idea of this site is just to give you an alternative away from the big corporations exploiting us . this site isn't only about poker... it's a movement to free the game we love to play.


I think something which already has been done and is a much better idea is facebook poker. You just piggy back off of the existing ecosystem to build a huge user base (34 million monthly active users according to them). I'm sure they will try to get facebook credits soon if that's allowed legally. But just notice how inferior the software is to stars, the lack of features like multitabling, the lack of a HEM, the lack of autofold, etc, etc... and they have 34 million users. You guys are targeting how many users?


Helmet   Philippines. Dec 17 2010 03:49. Posts 930


  On December 16 2010 23:35 royalsu wrote:
Show nested quote +



I think something which already has been done and is a much better idea is facebook poker. You just piggy back off of the existing ecosystem to build a huge user base (34 million monthly active users according to them). I'm sure they will try to get facebook credits soon if that's allowed legally. But just notice how inferior the software is to stars, the lack of features like multitabling, the lack of a HEM, the lack of autofold, etc, etc... and they have 34 million users. You guys are targeting how many users?



facebook poker aint open source. it's just.... poker. lol. there's nothing political behind it. the reason i am so enthusiastic about this project is because it carries the open source philosophy. otherwise if the makers of this were in it just to make money then they are no better than the sites that belong to obscure networks like the "action network".

People who are brash and not image focused, people who are the opposite of sycophantic are maybe stereotypically the most trustworthy. - Steal City 

WhereDaHoneyz   United States. Dec 17 2010 04:18. Posts 29

Many questions or thing's people ask here are found on the site,

http://www.kartludox.org/

So stop making things up that aren't true. The information is there, and we made sure to excessively document it.

Our meeting last night lasted 5½ hours:
Meeting summary.
Full transcript

Wouldn't LPers like to play on LiquidPoker Poker? Imagine if the internet just consisted of facebook and myspace- that's like the Poker sites now. Kind of boring. Try to frame it in that way.

It's like when you try explain how we rely on technology fundamentally in everyday lives, and how free software grants you freedom when some guy is screaming down your ear about low cost means low quality. By focusing on the low-rake you're missing the point. The point is that any of you can make a Poker room. You can hook it up to whatever payment processor you want- macaroni and gummi bears for all I care and charge 99% rake. But you have to win out by competing, not maintaining a market monopoly.

Pretty soon you are going to be banned from Poker like the Turkish, French, Italians and South Africans. Government has found a new arena (the internet) to start swinging their dick around, feeling manly with their new sense of power. The only way to protect ourselves is to diversify. I'll leave you with a quote from Wikileaks cable 10RPODUBAI13 by an American diplomat reporting on the 2010 Iranian protests:

  The GPO has promulgated a new mode of oppositionist organization for Iran. Anecdotal evidence indicates that GPO leaders, especially Mousavi, have from the start favored a horizontal, diffuse, decentralized GPO structure as opposed to a more hierarchical one. Indeed, part of the GPO's resilience stems from this defuse and decentralized nature, frustrating a regime that has come to rely on the two-step of identifying and decapitating leadership as its main tool for extinguishing dissent.


WhereDaHoneyz   United States. Dec 17 2010 04:27. Posts 29

btw I am suspicious of 2+2. A mod there has been PM'ing me really suspicious questions:
>Please let me know the usernames of your other accounts here, banned and current.

>In that case, where are you located?

>I was checking your IP addresses for matches
(why is he checking my IP address?)

>Where in XXX? Where have you been and posted at 2+2 from?

Seems a bit too creepy for my liking. And the mods in that thread have been attacking me subtly insinuating I'm a scammer and now a spammer. Baal, is my tinfoil hat on properly?


lucifer   Sweden. Dec 17 2010 08:21. Posts 5955


  On December 17 2010 03:27 WhereDaHoneyz wrote:
btw I am suspicious of 2+2. A mod there has been PM'ing me really suspicious questions:
>Please let me know the usernames of your other accounts here, banned and current.
You're probably not allowed to multiaccount. That's why he's asking.

>In that case, where are you located?
Stop giving out fake locations for your stupid multiaccounts


>I was checking your IP addresses for matches
(why is he checking my IP address?)
Because your multiaccounts sets off gazillijon flags


Seems a bit too creepy for my liking. And the mods in that thread have been attacking me subtly insinuating I'm a scammer and now a spammer. Baal, is my tinfoil hat on properly?



My username here is lucifer my location is sweden.

This is my only account on this site.


*gasp* That was hard. I must have dropped my hat.





  On December 17 2010 03:18 WhereDaHoneyz wrote:
Wouldn't LPers like to play on LiquidPoker Poker?

Imagine if the internet just consisted of facebook and myspace- that's like the Poker sites now. Kind of AWESOME shame it isn't true...



Maybe. If none of the decent members played there. Which leads us back to the no fish no regs wtf no munnies u srs? The appeal for this is what Ket wrote. (game with people you know, deal with the money irl etc.)

I also fixed your second statement.

On February 19 2009 22:21 Confedrate wrote: i dont get itLast edit: 17/12/2010 08:26

casinocasino   Canada. Dec 17 2010 08:54. Posts 3343

No Money No Honey


Zep   United States. Dec 17 2010 09:03. Posts 2292

yeah the only way this is going to succeed in the long run is if you can compete with the big 3 in terms of traffic, security and affiliations. If you were to get a training site or some semi famous pros on board and some money backing this idea, it would probably have a better chance. that's my opinion on where the next step should be after the software is written. If you can create the image that this has a chance to compete with the big 3, it may succeed.

NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future. 

shlade7   United States. Dec 17 2010 10:25. Posts 30


  On December 17 2010 08:03 Zep wrote:
yeah the only way this is going to succeed in the long run is if you can compete with the big 3 in terms of traffic, security and affiliations. If you were to get a training site or some semi famous pros on board and some money backing this idea, it would probably have a better chance. that's my opinion on where the next step should be after the software is written. If you can create the image that this has a chance to compete with the big 3, it may succeed.



Succeed in what? If at the end of all this you can start up your own site and have a game with your friends or if you can login to an existing network and there's a dozen tables going that you can choose to sit down at for a little while and play this project will be a major success.
If an individual or company decides to use the software to build a major site, put millions into marketing and support and actually try to take a decent share of the market then that's their own project but we'll be happy that someone is using the software to expand the options in the community.


WhereDaHoneyz   United States. Dec 17 2010 12:51. Posts 29

We need testers. If there's a 10% chance this succeeds that is +EV. The more testers, the faster we can move. PM me these details:

Name
Available times
Email
Other contact methods
Preferred contact method
Notes (other skills, require advance notice, ...)
Willing to playtest?

And you'll be added to the report sheet.

Lots of people have different schedules. More people makes it easier to pick out 4 people with a shared schedule. Thanks


Helmet   Philippines. Dec 17 2010 19:05. Posts 930


  On December 17 2010 08:03 Zep wrote:
yeah the only way this is going to succeed in the long run is if you can compete with the big 3 in terms of traffic, security and affiliations. If you were to get a training site or some semi famous pros on board and some money backing this idea, it would probably have a better chance. that's my opinion on where the next step should be after the software is written. If you can create the image that this has a chance to compete with the big 3, it may succeed.



it's not the only way to succeed. this project succeeds if a lot of coders from the community takes part in this project and continues to improve/develop the source code. the more coders taking interest in this the better. they guys who started this are all about making good software...

People who are brash and not image focused, people who are the opposite of sycophantic are maybe stereotypically the most trustworthy. - Steal City 

Animater   Bulgaria. Dec 17 2010 20:26. Posts 1

Hello guys,

I believe that the idea is great. First, let me start with the links:

a petition:

http://www.petitiononline.com/AntiRake/petition.html

other threads in other poker communities where you can blow the whistle:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19/...l-nl/organizing-poker-players-888885/

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=98565&page=7

In my personal opinion the rake/no-rake feature should be opt-in/opt-out - so that you can either pay a monthly fee or regular rake. this would be a good "for profit" way of making money - the fish would be raked, but not the regulars.

the difficult part with the idea is attracting newbies/fish - I've seen people who have deposited thousands and raked only hundreds. those guys are not happy with their "rakeback/bonuses" and ask for something extra just based on their deposits. those big "Whales" who make profits for some of the high-stake pros receive gifts such as tournament entries and cash based on ... little or no rake.

the vip program and the distribution of the wealth in the regular for profit companies keeps the fish coming. you have advertising, addition of bonuses and cash and so on. also customer support, which is quite quite important.

furthermore, there are the trasnaction teams who should have access to some banking details... unless those people are signed by a corporation, they would be able to abuse the system.

it is really toooo difficult to run a proper poker room, once you think about it, you can write several pages which stuff which can go wrong...


whamm!   Albania. Dec 17 2010 20:51. Posts 11625

heres a suggestion for the team who are developing this, give players (who believe and are open to the idea) a working model to try, beans, bitcoin, shekels, it doesnt matter. if all people have to appreciate is walls and walls of text on open souce philosphies and arguments about how great it will be, im afraid ppl will just lose interest more -Worry about fish and processors, currencies later. personally i believe in the idea and im sure a lot of others do as well. just give ppl something to try. you cannot convince people who've already made up their minds at this point not to have faith in the project. im in 100%, but just my 2cents about this whole thing.

 Last edit: 17/12/2010 20:54

WhereDaHoneyz   United States. Dec 17 2010 22:19. Posts 29

We need testers.

Name
Available times
Email
Other contact methods
Preferred contact method
Notes (other skills, require advance notice, ...)
Willing to playtest?

And you'll be added to the report sheet.

Lots of people have different schedules. More people makes it easier to pick out 4 people with a shared schedule. Thanks

You can keep up to date via our new front page:
http://poker.bitcoinvegas.com/wiki


Target-x17   Canada. Dec 18 2010 11:12. Posts 1027

get er done

f u bw rock 

Steal City   United States. Dec 18 2010 12:08. Posts 2537


  On December 16 2010 11:10 Nazgul wrote:
If this site gets 1% of the world poker traffic you may consider it a big success, and there is no way PokerStars is going to adjust a single thing for such a small network. If somehow this network became popular enough for PokerStars to go rake free for cashgames, everybody including the creators of the network would celebrate I assume, because PokerStars adjusting their rake is even better than offering it on a separate network.



i don't think you or defrag get it. If it gets 0.01% of the market that may be enough for PS and FTP to have to adjust. The site solely needs some 2nl traffic such that potential would-be poker room creators will take the software (remember it's open source) and monetarize it in their own way. Since they will need to publish their code to use the open source software, it could very quickly be just as good software as FTP and PS. The businesses that start up using this software may charge as much or even more than PS/FTP... the whole point is that sooner, rather than later, the loss of this huge barrier-to-entry will bring about competitive rake

Intersango.com intersango.com  

Garfed   Malta. Dec 18 2010 17:49. Posts 4818

Steal City, I work for liquidpoker and run tlpoker.pl for quite some time already and there is absolutetly no way this has any slighlest chance of sucess ( my opinion obviously, based on my experience and the fact that I know how poker rooms / affiliates operate). No offence but telling Nazgul, who runs a site of that scale that he doesnt get it is pretty ignorant.

If you would put in few millions into this, I think it MIGHT have reach enough traffic for PS/FTP to make a slight adjustment ( or just use their lawyers to finish the site ).
I seriously dont want to go into details since I would have to point out ton of stuff that would take me like an hour to write if I wanted a detailed post.


Garfed   Malta. Dec 18 2010 17:50. Posts 4818

Also, f*@%ing rofl:
http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=942002

And rofl #2:

  @Genjix
You're writing code for a commercial site, www.bitcoinvegas.com You are a part-owner of the site. Your business plan is to not charge rake, but rather charge players for various premiums and extras. You want 2p2'ers to help, and eventually play there. That's the bottom line, and that's a very different story than the one that was presented in the OP.

 Last edit: 18/12/2010 17:53

 
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