Rake-Free & Ran By the Poker Community? - Page 5

I always laugh when I hear this idea because every mass grinder out there has had his eureka moment when he checks his PTR/HEM and sees that he's paid 500$ in rake for the day. Then every poker player has the genius idea that a rake-free site would be totally awesome. Then 99.99% of players realize how hard it would be to start a company and go back to mindlessly grinding.

In my opinion this project is totally managed the wrong way and that's what happens when you have technical people working on it. The issues discussed are implementation specific and people are arguing about the merits of bitcoin and such. The main difficulties of this project are legal, marketing, and security.

Here is one easy challenges I have come up with:

1) If pokerstars went rake free for new users for the first year, how would your network survive?
2) If pokerstars went rake free for cash games, how would your network survive?

Basically my challenge here is that your only unique quality is rake-free, but pokerstars can easily do this and still make a profit.

If this site gets 1% of the world poker traffic you may consider it a big success, and there is no way PokerStars is going to adjust a single thing for such a small network. If somehow this network became popular enough for PokerStars to go rake free for cashgames, everybody including the creators of the network would celebrate I assume, because PokerStars adjusting their rake is even better than offering it on a separate network.

On December 16 2010 10:50 royalsu wrote: Here is one easy challenges I have come up with: 1) If pokerstars went rake free for new users for the first year, how would your network survive? 2) If pokerstars went rake free for cash games, how would your network survive? Basically my challenge here is that your only unique quality is rake-free, but pokerstars can easily do this and still make a profit.

wut.

Then GG! We now pay 0% rake because of this competing open-source software that was created! Job well done

On December 16 2010 10:50 royalsu wrote:1) If pokerstars went rake free for new users for the first year, how would your network survive? 2) If pokerstars went rake free for cash games, how would your network survive?

Declare victory. Mission accomplished.

Basically my challenge here is that your only unique quality is rake-free, but pokerstars can easily do this and still make a profit.

http://kartludox.org

Rake-free Unbreakable security using GPG for logins and SSL for connections. No tracking sites like PokerTableRatings. Built-in PokerStove Instant Cash-Outs Auto-fold Customise look Build own clients. Maybe themed for your own room. Integrated HUD. Keyboard shortcuts. Phone apps International. No VPP milestone chasing = no multitabling FPP robots. Encourages proper Poker play concentrating on playing well rather than earning rakeback.

The unique quality isn't rake free, because I'm sure rooms will open up based on this software that will not be rake-free. The unique quality to begin with will be superior software. At the end of the day it's just a movement in a positive direction for the poker community.

On December 16 2010 10:50 royalsu wrote: I always laugh when I hear this idea because every mass grinder out there has had his eureka moment when he checks his PTR/HEM and sees that he's paid 500$ in rake for the day. Then every poker player has the genius idea that a rake-free site would be totally awesome. Then 99.99% of players realize how hard it would be to start a company and go back to mindlessly grinding. In my opinion this project is totally managed the wrong way and that's what happens when you have technical people working on it. The issues discussed are implementation specific and people are arguing about the merits of bitcoin and such. The main difficulties of this project are legal, marketing, and security. Here is one easy challenges I have come up with: 1) If pokerstars went rake free for new users for the first year, how would your network survive? 2) If pokerstars went rake free for cash games, how would your network survive? Basically my challenge here is that your only unique quality is rake-free, but pokerstars can easily do this and still make a profit.

then the website would have accomplished its goal and everyone would be happy. unfortunately, PS would never do this because this website would never be considered a threat/competitor.

On December 16 2010 08:20 Ket wrote: I think it's pretty amazing the effort genjix, jchysk and others involved seem to be putting into something like this for alturistic goals and ideals. Having been a poker player as long as I have, it's almost unheard of to me for there to be people out there putting time and effort into something for reasons other than chasing personal gain. Even if you don't think it's going to work or question the ideals they're motivated by (that poker sites are charging too much at lowstakes etc) you still have to admit it's v admirable there are people doing this. Quick question, is Bitcoin the only form of handling money/keeping score being considered at this stage? One way I would like to use an open source poker server + client software if it existed would be to set up private 'home' games with players I trust, where funds transfer between losers and winners would be handled by the players themselves afterwards, say by full tilt transfer or something. The way I imagine it would go something like, I challenge my friend to a rake-free $5/10 HU 4tabling grudge/sparring match. I get the open source poker server running and use the server admin panel to create two user accounts on the server, one for me and one for my friend. I use the admin panel to set the cashier balances of both our accounts to 10k virtual monies. Somehow there's full transparency of server admin actions like making accounts and manually changing balances so that any user logged into a user account can see a list of all admin actions to see nothing shady is going on etc. Now my friend and I both get the open source client running and make it connect to the server I have running and we log into our accounts where we each have 10k virtual monies in our cashiers to start off with. Now we play the match and it works just as youd expect this software to work, most of it happens server side and the client just does what the client should. At the end of the match I've lost 8k to my friend and say gg and decide to quit bc im a fish. We check our balances using the cashier button on the client to confirm the final tally and I send him what I owe him over full tilt transfer or bank wire or I.O.U note or food stamps or whatever else we agreed on. Then later on I import the HHs from the match into HEM to review them because the awesome opensource software also recorded all the HHs on my computer in the standard HEM format.

Great idea. We actually can already do this since that's the way it's set up for testing, but to allows users to easily do it themselves I now realize has it's uses as well.

it is very nice to see some people getting the whole idea.

I cant believe some people might think this will work. Imo this only shows that people taking part in this are completetly unaware of the situation on poker market.

Not trying to be offensive, but this is just not gonna happen.

Again, the immediate goal shouldn't be to take down PS or FTP...because that's damned near impossible. Even if though has a small chance of tangible success, it is still +EV for many reasons...

Combined, I've paid tens of thousands in rake to FTP, PS, and all the other sites I've played on over the years over the couple million hands I've played. It's not like I'm against the use of their services. I think Pokerstars is a great site and they have fantastic support. For me this project isn't about reducing the rake, that's just a positive side effect. For me, it's a fun project to improve the software and get together with like minded individuals to create something of our own for the community. I'm sure the other developers have their own personal reasons whether it's because they hate rake, hate the existing sites, enjoy coding, or maybe have some larger picture goals of shaping the industry. If this project never moves to the level where people are playing mid to high stakes or doesn't get a huge volume of players it doesn't mean it's not considered a success to some of us. We would like to make it open to anyone who wants to be involved and honestly, we're not trying to hurt anybody.

"THIS IS OLD. We've dropped the photoshop-style windows in a big window and the sidebar, in favour of just a normal Poker room windows with chatbox. It's not connected to the server atm- just a pretty looking dummy... coming soon!"

Meeting is in 2.5 hours (2200 GMT)- Don't Miss It!
http://pastecoin.com/cgi-bin/irc.cgi

Linux has been used since forever for servers by companies and the only reason it took that long because people did not support it or even give it a chance. the whole thing couldve died as well if not for people joiining in the community to try it out and give suggestions to make it better. it is a perfect model to use an example because every other open source project out there started out as an IDEA for an alternative to the current status quo (usually make it cheaper, more secure and provide people a product which is just as good or even better) that's what open source is all about and linux is not the only example, but there are hundreds of other products out there which are just not recognized but does serve it's purpose well but is just not getting the attention.
The project will last as long as the people behind it are there, it wont be gone just because there's no support or funding, but if people actually care to have rake-free poker as an alternative similar to what Linux has become, then i suggest you help out because now that the idea/project is out there, even if genjix quits or not, someone other group of people have seen it and will pick the project up anyhow. im just happy its out there an even linux did not have this much interest nor support in its early stages of development(from people who didnt even code or use servers). Here the community (poker players and coders who are interested to help out) is even broader to give assistance in financial, code and overall conceptualizing how to help make it better.

Lot of linux talk.


Enjoy spending 40+ years improving the source.

Ok you guys have a point. Stars lowering rake means you win. My point was just to show how they could crush you for a year of no rake ness (or a month) and then go back to rake. Lowering prices to kill off competition is so common.

How about this one: the reason people play tournaments is for big payouts and big fields. Pokerstars achieves this through spending millions of dollars in sponsorships and putting overlay into tournaments (guaranteed 50k). How does your site build such a user base?

Who do I call if I think someone is cheating?

Regarding whamm: that's totally my point in this thread. Why are you even debating linux? How does that have anything to do with a successful poker site?

Here's my challenge to you guys and let me play devil's advocate here. If you had to pitch your site in 30 seconds to your girlfriend, how would you do it? Hint: is rake really the killer hook?

I think if you guys want to invest your time then it's better to come up with more creative ideas then rake-free ness and "autofold". Think about RUSH poker from fulltilt. Look at how that prevents collusion, makes HEM less useful, etc. This is a move on their part that helps the fish out by equalling the field. Or the Loose Cannon/Couch cannon concept from Stars.
Your goal should be to creatively imagine ideas that would make fish want to play, and not the grinders out there. For example what about sound chat? Or video conference poker playing where you see your opponents and can ask: "are you bluffing?".

Rake is not the only thing here, do you know the possibilities of this if handled and supported well? imagine having your buyins as your br and you reload from your wallet real time, as opposed to having your entire 50kusd on the site? how fucking awesome, safe and secure would that be? with open source it is limitless really, depends how far you want to take it. and with regards to linux talk its been "pefect" after a couple years after it started, improving and adding more features takes more time, its a process obv, Theres also phpbb , an open source platform for forum boards, which is the core for almost every forum platform out there right now. vbulletin, smf, mybb, etc - the industry is run by communities and is one of the most successful models out there, basic forums are free, if you want bells and whistles, you pay for addons but the core is being improved and addons are built in periodically.

open source is just a put off for some because admittedly most programs out there which do the job but doesnt present it through advertising and awesome looking websites make it look shady and dodgy.
online poker is a piece of code. nothing more. live poker is different more expensive to run, they pay taxes but they make a lot less money than online rooms. that is really what this whole thing is all about.

Actually.

It's advertising and awesome looking websites that make it look shady and dodgy.





You seem to be confused on what the target audience is supposed to be here...

Invertible from 2p2 wrote: Next point is, are you sure having a 100% rake free room is the best business model. To attract fish you need a well built platform and good advertising which all cost $$$$. No fish, no poker room

Or even better

hepzebah from 2p2 wrote: You can sing this. Like 2+2 the community will be populated with regs not losers. The payment methods will be usable by regs not losers. The site will appear trustworthy to regs not losers. So why will regs play there?

Can I just transfer genjix money on Full tilt directly or do I have to go through this whole process of depositing to that site before he takes my money?

User was warned for this post

stupid...

edit: stupido...

i'll be using that word from now on.

On December 16 2010 17:34 royalsu wrote: Regarding whamm: that's totally my point in this thread. Why are you even debating linux? How does that have anything to do with a successful poker site? Here's my challenge to you guys and let me play devil's advocate here. If you had to pitch your site in 30 seconds to your girlfriend, how would you do it? Hint: is rake really the killer hook?

imagine pokerstars, ftp.. etc.. etc.. as these "big casinos". in those "big casinos", you get fpp pros, rake back pros, those solid grinders. now, sometimes you just wanna play poker with your friends, have fun and relax. where do you go? to a "home game", where poker is pure, fun and the way it should be. so you get your bit coin... log in that "home game" site without rake, play for a few hours then withdraw and log out.

so the whole idea of this site is just to give you an alternative away from the big corporations exploiting us . this site isn't only about poker... it's a movement to free the game we love to play.