New Swedish Poker Laws

I didn't see anything posted about this, but I think it deserves a thread..

An investigation into poker/gambling in Sweden has been going on for quite a while now, and today they presented the results of it, along with the suggested revisions to the laws. I don't think it's available in english but to summarize the summaries I have read:

1) Playing Poker on sites other than (the state owned) Svenska Spel will NOT be allowed for Swedish citizens (btw, this effectively screws every non-swedish citizen over, since all foreign sites will be blocked and they can't play on SvS since you have to be swedish to do so).

2) An IP-Block will be instituted at the ISP-Level. This block will NOT be optional! (for reference, there's a similiar block in place, blacklisting known child pornography websites. However this is not technically mandatory, although I believe it's in place everywhere even so).

3) Banks will not perform transactions with known foreign gambling operators.

There are also some distinctions being made between "soft" and "hard" gambling. Sportsbetting = soft. Online Poker = Hard!! So technically international sportsbetting operations can obtain a license for the softer forms of gambling (if I understood things correctly), but will have to ban their swedish customers from the poker tables.

If this all passes the laws would be in place sometime 2011.

.. With this, the FRA, the IPRED and the proposed IPRED2 I'm starting to really dislike this country.

If any swedes want to read more (although I suppose most of you knew about this, I managed to miss it)
http://pokerforum.nu/forum/svenska-pokerfoerbundet/48156-spelutredning.html (thread is 6 months old, current discussion starts @ page 10)

Oh and to make things even more fun - SvS is apparently too incompetent a room to even manage to run the Swedish Poker Championships properly - they had to abort it because "too many people were signed in" or something retarded like that.

Guh I barely even play anymore and this still makes me pissed -.-

I don't understand the percieved need for such laws...

Impossible, Holland government is filled with bigger assholes and already tried, EU won't allow it.

sportsbetting is just good clean fun but poker ruins lives

I can not care less about some IKEA boys not being able to take some retards money.
We all know swedes are usually of better players. So i wont have any problem with them all being "wiped off the map" (Ya, Im from Iran!)

Christ. Wish I studied more in law school:D

FUCK FUCK FUCK

This is so sick, Denmark will probably do something like that too, we just had a court deem that its illegal to "seek proffesion from online poker" those fuckers!

damn this sucks indeed, but like kilay said they probably wont make it through the europian laws

The current swedish gambling laws have been in conflict with EU-laws and they are still there, 13 years after we joined the EU. That makes me a little bit scared the EU wont be able to stop this. Hope they can though.
On an other note, the current swedish government is supposed to be a right/liberal goverment. If this law passes they can seriously go fuck themselves. Did they think the swedish people voted liberal because we want more restrictions on our personal freedom?

Burn them, wtf this is so titling...

Considering what has happened in other places the EU will likely step in once again and bar any of this from holding up. All these serious attempts to shut poker down are really starting to piss me off though.

There are also some distinctions being made between "soft" and "hard" gambling. Sportsbetting = soft. Online Poker = Hard!! So technically international sportsbetting operations can obtain a license for the softer forms of gambling (if I understood things correctly), but will have to ban their swedish customers from the poker tables.

Thats maybe a little bit ridiculous?

like what on earth are these people thinking?

that its illegal to "seek proffesion from online poker

Well this one tops everything else, give more details? Anyone yet convicted for winning too much from poker? Like there is no law against being jobless on purpose, or damaging yourself on purpose (ie. drugs, alcohol) that you are permanently unable to work and then they have a law against seeking profession from online poker?

Also seeking profession from live poker is ok?

Well fuck it, the might actually go through with this. I read most of it and it sounds just like the kind of bullshit people try when they know what results they want before they start investigating something. Don't think it'll hold before the European court but since the normal way to handle those pesky treaties and human right issues seems to be to be this:

1. Ignore it, hope it'll go away.
2. If someone actually makes a case out of it, make sure to draw out on it.
3. If you lose, pay fines. See if someone notice if you don't change the laws.
4. Start an investigation, preferably incompetent and with to many questions to answer.
5. Wait 5 years.
6. Change laws a bit, but not enough to actually make a difference.
7. Repeat 1.

So basically if the jerk of lawyers our government hires is corrupt/annoying/gay enough to decide that they think it's ok to say that they feel that we're not fucking EU over enough so that we're not allowed to do that the legal way isn't good.

That would leave me a few options:

1. Quit poker.
2. Move somewhere.
3. Decide to take one for the team and just go medieval on their asses.

I think 3 is probably the best pick from a moral standpoint, but since it includes breaking a number of somewhat important laws I guess I can't recommend it. Also for me personally it would probably be the worst. The problem is that I like my family and friends so I don't really wanna move. Hopefully it won't this laws won't be relevant until I'm done with school so that I can move somewhere and not have to deal with this shit.

Also, wouldn't a encrypted connection to a server outside of Sweden/the EU fix this?

corruption is rampant in every government =[

"Also, wouldn't a encrypted connection to a server outside of Sweden/the EU fix this?"
yeah but it would still be harder to get the money...

And this will probably blow over, it has to be against EU regulations for monopoly?

On December 15 2008 15:32 asdf2000 wrote: corruption is rampant in every government =[

This was my 1st thought when reading that only svenska's gonna be allowed.

On December 15 2008 15:17 auffenpuffer wrote: Show nested quote + There are also some distinctions being made between "soft" and "hard" gambling. Sportsbetting = soft. Online Poker = Hard!! So technically international sportsbetting operations can obtain a license for the softer forms of gambling (if I understood things correctly), but will have to ban their swedish customers from the poker tables. Thats maybe a little bit ridiculous? like what on earth are these people thinking?   that its illegal to "seek proffesion from online poker Well this one tops everything else, give more details? Anyone yet convicted for winning too much from poker? Like there is no law against being jobless on purpose, or damaging yourself on purpose (ie. drugs, alcohol) that you are permanently unable to work and then they have a law against seeking profession from online poker? Also seeking profession from live poker is ok?

I think I read live poker is considered "soft" gambling.
Lol donkaments.

Am i the only one thinking VPN solves playing and some e-wallets payments?

On December 15 2008 15:35 Ond keso wrote: "Also, wouldn't a encrypted connection to a server outside of Sweden/the EU fix this?" yeah but it would still be harder to get the money... And this will probably blow over, it has to be against EU regulations for monopoly?

Yea, I guess. Put up a bank account in another country?

And it's really hard to make this shit with art. 49 or w/e it is but as I stated previously it's not a very effective regulation in a European level.

What the fuck is going on in the world.

The "Free World" doesn't seem to free when people can't do what they wish with their money (especially considering the only person possibly hurt by doing this with their "own money" is themselves).

What happened to the golden rule.

On December 15 2008 15:28 DustySwedeDude wrote: 1. Quit poker. 2. Move somewhere. 3. Decide to take one for the team and just go medieval on their asses.

1. I´d hate doing that!
2. I love Sweden!
3. Excellent choice!

4. Play at SS

Since 1 is out of the option, 2 is pretty boring there is only number 3 left since I wont do number 4. I think we learned in lawschool that there was an exception to this if there was a good purpose behind the act, right?

This sucks!

i am running so fking hot with my citizenship

On December 15 2008 15:17 auffenpuffer wrote: Show nested quote + There are also some distinctions being made between "soft" and "hard" gambling. Sportsbetting = soft. Online Poker = Hard!! So technically international sportsbetting operations can obtain a license for the softer forms of gambling (if I understood things correctly), but will have to ban their swedish customers from the poker tables. Thats maybe a little bit ridiculous? like what on earth are these people thinking?   that its illegal to "seek proffesion from online poker Well this one tops everything else, give more details? Anyone yet convicted for winning too much from poker? Like there is no law against being jobless on purpose, or damaging yourself on purpose (ie. drugs, alcohol) that you are permanently unable to work and then they have a law against seeking profession from online poker? Also seeking profession from live poker is ok?

Well one guy had all his winnings confiscated, about $40K because it is illegal to live off of "Hasard", which means games which are predominantly determined by chance. He won the case in the lowest court, and he lost in the middle court and it has not been to the supreme court yet. But its perfectly legal to make your living in a casino or in the state lottery/bookmaking/games and live poker in casinos, it is so rediculous, they are just trying to protect the income from the government sponsered games.

I only have danish links to the story :

http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-18305470.html

It is just so wrong on so many levels, poker is not determined predominantly by chance, it is not illegal to live off other games even though they are 100% determined by chance. Well I hope supreme court has some sense.

On December 15 2008 16:18 Ket wrote: i am running so fking hot with my citizenship

I bet Queen Elizabeth is stackin dem donks in PS right now

I just read on danish news that norway voted for a law to ban online poker on 4. december, anyone know about that?

What the fuck you guys are talking about???
Do you guys really think that government cares/ gives a shit about you guys hurting yourself?

In case you guys are wondering this is all about the tax money.

that is total BS.

On December 15 2008 16:38 capaneo wrote: What the fuck you guys are talking about??? Do you guys really think that government cares/ gives a shit about you guys hurting yourself? In case you guys are wondering this is all about the tax money.

Who the fuck talked about hurting ourselves? I don't believe in Gandi, I believe in Bass Rutten.

Also, how hard is it to move to England?

be a live pro?

insane in the brain

that sucks big time

On December 15 2008 16:18 Ket wrote: i am running so fking hot with my citizenship

nice read... your parents had

--- Nuked ---

Ive said it 100 times already you donks.... FUCK THE GOVERNMENT!, revolt mother fuckers! dont pay taxes if i can dodge them, fuck the state.

On December 15 2008 16:34 Zorglub wrote: I just read on danish news that norway voted for a law to ban online poker on 4. december, anyone know about that?

Norway Poker

im shocked. what the hell.

isn't this identical to what germany tried and failed at

Ok you know what, I'm starting to think the world as a whole has just gone insane:

Sweden wants to restrict online poker to state operated Svenska Spel only:
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?a=864143
http://di.se/Nyheter/?page=/Avdelning...nusection%3DStartsidan%3BHuvudnyheter

Norway passes their own version of the UIGEA:
http://www.yogonet.com/english/detallenoticia.asp?id=12943

Denmark outlaws online poker as a profession:
http://nyhederne.tv2.dk/article.php/id-18305470.html

And Russia moves to ban casinos from all their major cities, choosing instead to re-locate them to Siberia (WTF):
http://www.yogonet.com/english/detallenoticia.asp?id=12831

Maybe there's nowhere to hide, maybe we should just wait for the colonization of Mars and start over -_-

This is really fucked up,and in times like these I'm glad I live in this somewhat god forsaken country.

Especially given the fact vast majority of swedes on this site are actually really nice people...TianYuan,Dusty,Pinball,Stygg etc etc...

Hope it works out good guys.

Still just an investigation. Let's hope it doesnt succeed

The law in Norway isnt like UIGEA at all. Acctually this new law in Norway wohnt affect me at all.

On December 15 2008 19:13 bongky wrote: u can come to peru we have no laws at all

We need some positive news for poker now... like... OBAMA reopens poker in USA !

hmm i better start looking for a job coz i really feel the party's gonna be over sooner than i think, and it's not coz games are getting tougher

On December 15 2008 14:22 TedHastings wrote: sportsbetting is just good clean fun but poker ruins lives

lol?

On December 15 2008 19:33 whamm! wrote: hmm i better start looking for a job coz i really feel the party's gonna be over sooner than i think, and it's not coz games are getting tougher

It won't get that bad. I just think that you shouldn't put all your eggs into one basket unless you're totally ballin out of control.

For me I have my eggs in two baskets: legal work and poker. Both are failing.

On December 15 2008 19:33 whamm! wrote: hmm i better start looking for a job coz i really feel the party's gonna be over sooner than i think, and it's not coz games are getting tougher

theres always live poker

12 tabling full ring to 1 tabling live probably not his best transition

On December 15 2008 20:03 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On December 15 2008 19:33 whamm! wrote: hmm i better start looking for a job coz i really feel the party's gonna be over sooner than i think, and it's not coz games are getting tougher It won't get that bad. I just think that you shouldn't put all your eggs into one basket unless you're totally ballin out of control. For me I have my eggs in two baskets: legal work and poker. Both are failing.

lol, maybe you should focus on 1 then focus on the other if you iz failing sir.

I must run pretty bad.

Got an american passport, and a swedish one.


Time to renew my British one, run good one time!

Fuck, fuck, fuck, if Sweden does this Finland will follow within a year or two, FSHsRwsrjhrghjeroågharåoerhtpphpws

this is good for other poker players lol, finally we will get rid of the scandinavian psychos , or as Phill Hellmuth would call them: "idiots from northern europe"

So tilting, although I dont think this will affect me all that much. By 2011 I will most likely have quit poker or will atleast not be playing full time. I also have a hard time seing how EU would allow this.

No Swedish grinders needed at Svenska Spel, I want the fishes for myself.

This seem to suck anyway...

So I've heard that it's pretty easy to move to England? Correct? Can't be too bad.

i think its pretty easy for the citizens of the commonwealth, but probably they have nothing against english speaking swedes moving there (as opposed to their attitude if you were non english speaking afghan). But yea I actually have no clue about the facts, and am writing just because I am bored so perhaps some englishman can tell us how it really is.

by the way, imo moving to England can be too bad, even with the gambling legistlation.

I wonder how every guy in the government is capable of consistently plotting the fucking of someone's life. How is their thought process going on?!? Like "hmm, these fucking poker players earn way too much from just sitting on their asses at home, i really need to find a way to fuck them MUHAHAHAH (grins)" and they wake up from they sleep from time to time with a genius idea of fucking someone up and they feel so good. Governments are full of bad people. How come? Greedy and bad and evil. Is it so hard to just be good. Sometimes i wish i could get one of those bastards with power in some dark room and just kick him and cut a part of his body (finger f.x.) and just torture them a little so that they see how most ppl feel cause of them. That would be really cool.

On December 16 2008 06:16 DustySwedeDude wrote: So I've heard that it's pretty easy to move to England? Correct? Can't be too bad.

ya apparently its pretty easy to do, its what eastgate did to avoid getting raped by taxes

Fazi here we come

wtf are you guys talking about moving to england would be horrible

On December 16 2008 06:53 TwistedEcho wrote: Show nested quote + On December 16 2008 06:16 DustySwedeDude wrote: So I've heard that it's pretty easy to move to England? Correct? Can't be too bad. ya apparently its pretty easy to do, its what eastgate did to avoid getting raped by taxes

So gets bum raped by British taxes instead to give some chav a council house? Only our alcohol is cheaper here - thats it!!

Seriously though - my understanding of this is that SvS promotes itself as a Responsible operator, they run 7 different types of gaming (Lottery, Sports, Casino Cosmopol etc) and through their on line presence they can offer upper limits to deposit per day/per week etc - effectively a responsible gaming program - and enforce cool off periods and if they are the only online poker operator they can control or at least lessen gambling addiction and problem gamers.

Selling gambling to the Swedish public is not in general an easy thing to do but because of the stance SvS take against gambling addiction and the acceptance of this by the general public in Sweden it actually benefits their business and persuades the Government to allow it to continue and expand whilst nicely creeating a monopoly for itself.

SvS actually pretty soft, NL200 and below

On December 16 2008 08:23 4kinggenius wrote: Show nested quote + On December 16 2008 06:53 TwistedEcho wrote:   On December 16 2008 06:16 DustySwedeDude wrote: So I've heard that it's pretty easy to move to England? Correct? Can't be too bad. ya apparently its pretty easy to do, its what eastgate did to avoid getting raped by taxes So gets bum raped by British taxes instead to give some chav a council house? Only our alcohol is cheaper here - thats it!! Seriously though - my understanding of this is that SvS promotes itself as a Responsible operator, they run 7 different types of gaming (Lottery, Sports, Casino Cosmopol etc) and through their on line presence they can offer upper limits to deposit per day/per week etc - effectively a responsible gaming program - and enforce cool off periods and if they are the only online poker operator they can control or at least lessen gambling addiction and problem gamers. Selling gambling to the Swedish public is not in general an easy thing to do but because of the stance SvS take against gambling addiction and the acceptance of this by the general public in Sweden it actually benefits their business and persuades the Government to allow it to continue and expand whilst nicely creeating a monopoly for itself.

you do realise british taxes for a poker player are pretty minimal right? given that income tax is 0%

I am sure you know better than me Ket but I thought in the UK if you have a full time job then you are not taxed on your gaming winnings. However I thought if Gambling was you only income that is taxed as if you are self employed and the tax levels are decided by the amount that you declare? I stand to be corrected but that was my understanding.

On December 16 2008 11:29 4kinggenius wrote: I am sure you know better than me Ket but I thought in the UK if you have a full time job then you are not taxed on your gaming winnings. However I thought if Gambling was you only income that is taxed as if you are self employed and the tax levels are decided by the amount that you declare? I stand to be corrected but that was my understanding.

I think it is actually something like 'your primary source of income' (gambling/poker etc) then you were taxed. But hopefully we are both wrong....

Ket - just searched again and found this

http://www.internettexasholdem.com/poker-forum/uk-tax-laws-vt13643.html

Had heard a different story before though

Yep - did some searching too and we were wrong.
The Tax Man

who the hell are all these 4kingxxx people they are confusing me

On December 16 2008 15:26 Highcard wrote: who the hell are all these 4kingxxx people they are confusing me

Very tired wanky name I thought was funny some time ago - 4Kingenius is a mate of mine. Now i just think it 4king sucks but can't change I guess....

yeah the only problem about moving to the UK is the ugly girls

Does anyone know if the zero gambling tax in the UK is dependent on if its a european site, or does it count for every site?

good job searching 4kings, maybe i should have just said in the first place i have it in writing straight from HMRC myself its not taxable even as a soul source of income my family were under the same impression as you and theyre the ones who wrote to the hmrc for me

government tilts me so hard

http://www.gp.se/gp/jsp/Crosslink.jsp?d=487&a=464920