On November 29 2018 05:30 Loco wrote:
Technically reincarnation is not taught in Buddhism, since there is no soul/self to be reincarnated. What is taught is transmigration: the mind is craving all the time for becoming and it's considered to persist for as long as it still wants to exist. Bodily death doesn't extinguish the craving for life because that craving is the only permanent/persistent force in the universe. It's the ocean of which we are the individual drop.
This is the same view that Schopenhauer developed, and he has a logical framework for it in his essay "On the Indestructibility of Our Essential Being by Death". Ultimately, this is metaphysics, and it only convinces those who get something out of it. In other words, it works only by 'as if' (Vahinger/Austin Spare). Blind faith in metaphysical views is obviously juvenile, but the alternative doesn't have to be rigid disbelief; Some people are convinced not of the absolute truth of some metaphysical propositions, but their 'as if', i.e. pragmatic value. Jordan peterson is one of those people. (but in my view he has picked shoddy views/is too politically motivated for his own benefit and that of a minority of people)
"All that I know is that I know nothing" said Socrates. Well, you could add to that that, short of having certainties, you know that living 'as if' something is true can have more value than not to. But of course this is very uncommon because the modern mind is addicted to control and certainty, even though the whole of science and philosophy shows that knowledge is aporetic: greater knowledge paradoxically leads to greater ignorance. But I digress...
Tutz has it all backwards. "Go for those people who are selling something, you are not ready for the real deal yet." Osho and Tolle... Those are not it.
The thing is.... Rikds path here wasn't his to begin with. It was mine. I influenced him to move away from Mahayana to Theravada, and then he picked up the New Burmese method because of me. My disappointment with my vipassana retreat became his as a result. All of this began when I was discarded by my long time partner who cheated on me. I lost my family and basically my whole life plan. I had nothing and I had never suffered this much before.
That reinvigorated my desire to possibly become a monk, since I had so few attachments left. But I found out the hard way that, while yes, Buddhist meditation helped me a lot, I cannot play the part of one who subscribes to a traditional Buddhist worldview and abandon or neglect scientific understanding and skepticism and that seems to close the door on my options. This is the tension that my spiritual father Cioran lived with all his life, he wanted to be a Buddhist but couldn't, and instead "tortured himself"! (His words).
Tired of having done the same for years, the only thing I could do was try to overcome it. And I have to some extent, but it wasn't through faith. It was through understanding the plight of the human being. His evolution, his future if he keeps being so easily deceived and arrogant. Understanding the context of our existence was the key. But understanding those things doesn't free you from the society you feel suffocated by.
The attractive part of Buddhism is that it offers a structure where you could just fuck right off, live peacefully in community and no longer have to be a part of a sick society without having to forage for food and live in a hut in Alaska. Depending on how ill-adapted to such a society you are, the more understanding of an 'as if' attitude towards Buddhism you will be.
Loco, I did not know you were in a spiritual search too.
Dear friend, I can see you entered buddhism expecting something it is not capable of providing to you. You must be your own teacher in the first place. You said: "The attractive part of Buddhism is that it offers a structure where you could just fuck right off, live peacefully in community and no longer have to be a part of a sick society without having to forage for food and live in a hut in Alaska".
Buddhism does not offer that. In no way... If you think you can escape reality through any philosophy, you will suffer. Life will bring you back to where you started. Nothing from the outside can force inner peace in you. For people raised in the West it is specially difficult to make the transition to the spiritual path, because the most basic concepts towards spiritual enlightment are too abstract for a mind dominated by the ego.
First, you do need to grasp on the basic concepts. Presence, ego identification, no reaction. This is the beauty of Eckhart and Osho's teachings. They give a pathway to spiritual awakening to those who are still dominated by the mind. Look, I'm not trying to be right and make you wrong. My words will either help shift your conciousness, or they will be meaningless, and both cases are ok.
Your disappointment with the Vipassana shows you shouldn't have entered it in the first place. You joined it expecting something, but EVERYTHING YOU NEED IS IN YOU. Your disappointment with other teachers also shows how much you are expecting something (someone) from the outside to enlighten you, to tell you how to think or what to do. This is not the way. The master is only an example of what is possible to achieve. Enlightened or not, a spiritual master is still subjected to the karmic cycle of being incartaned in this Earth. He still is, in the end, just human. Don't expect masters to be gods, you will be disappointed every time.
I truly wish you keep searching, as only you can find your ways, only you can 'remember who you are'. Please don't be offended by my words, I'm not judging you in any way. I have a deep respect for anyone seeking the spiritual path, as I know now how important that is. The simple fact that you are searching shows to me how blessed you are, I truly believe.
On November 27 2018 15:23 Mortensen8 wrote:
There's so much more to life you can go really deep but there are many ideologies etc. that suck you into them and shape your mind stay out of it all and watch the world burn don't buy into any of it because they will all just be used as useful idiots in the end (ordo ab chao). You can already see the division is getting more intense every year. But this is the time rise above it all and create good with stuff like permaculture. Basically all the darkness you see in the world is an opportunity without opposition we would have no way to grow. I have no idea how anyone can think existence to be mundane you literally have infinite knowledge right in front of you on the computer you are probably just trapped in a matrix thought control and never find something interesting.
Also you are probably vitamin D deficient get more sunlight, fish, eggs and dairy. Get away from wifi and other types of radiation as much as you can.
I just got my vitamin D levels checked recently and they were good.
Maybe hypothyroid judging by how much you sleep again cod might help because of iodine.
Bro, I just got a ton of stuff checked a few weeks ago and I have the bill to prove it. Both my GP and Psychiatrist said everything was "perfect." My Psychiatrist even asked me what I eat and what I do because the numbers couldn't be any better.
How can you be depressed then I've got all these auto immune bs and I'm happy maybe try weed and cbd actually cbd might make you depressed not sure but I still take it. I am also into weird and interesting rabbit hole shit which keeps me going. If you are in perfect health why sleep 15 hours? Keep in mind that 'perfect' levels of testosterone ranges from 200 to 1200 is it possible they are comparing you to some low average. I would also like to know what you eat haha.
I'm physically healthy that doesn't mean my mental health is on point. Weed might help in the short term but it's opening up a can of worms. Sleep is comforting. They could be comparing me to some low average. I didn't really look too much into it.
Every morning I eat a pumpkin oatmeal with walnuts and blueberries. The other meals vary but yesterday for example I went to the grocery store and bought a shit ton of organic vegetables. I cut them all up. Then I threw some vegetable oil and red curry paste into a big ass wok and then threw all the vegetables in, stirred in the curry, threw in some coconut milk, sugar, soy sauce, lime and cooked for about 15 or so minutes because the sweet potatoes take a while to cook. I got carried away actually. It was a LARGE batch. I am not sure if I can eat it all in 5 days.
On November 28 2018 21:47 Baalim wrote:
I've always found it curious that depress people gravitate towards alcohol and other depressants and manic paranoid people gravitate towards cocain and uppers... it seems counterintuitive, instead of looking for balance we are looking to potentialize our neurosis and self destruct
Alcohol can go great with crawling into a hole and drowning yourself in alcohol.
Man, when I'm manic I want to ride that rush as far as it can go.
On November 28 2018 22:29 RiKD wrote:
I recently invested just about everything into Buddhism and certain teachings for 4 months? Then I found out it would be wise to not continue with my teacher and there are a lot of feelings surrounding that. I haven't really been able to make sense of them all. Imagine spending most of your time... pretty much all of your time away from work on a goal... a serious goal of ceasing suffering and then find out that that is not the path. Especially someone like me who has been down so many paths. I'm just sick of it. I know it will pass but sometimes it doesn't feel that way. I learned some truths in Buddhism there is no going back from there but it feels like there is no winning with Theravada, Vajrayana, or Mahayana Buddhism. I don't know if there is winning in a USA based secular Buddhism either. I don't like the Chinese. Tibetans seem ok but so much damn ritual and magic. I really like Thai people and other Southeast Asians but there cultural Buddhism seems sketchy. At this point in time Zen Buddhism is not for me and I don't foresee it ever being for me. I just want the scriptures and a reasonable teacher. That may be asking for too much.
Stop looking for guidance in any of these traditions. You are not ready for those teachings yet. First you need to learn to observe your ego. Watch it as much as you can, during everyday activities. Stop reading scriptures, read Eckhart Tolle instead. Or Osho. I recommend you start with the Power of Now, learn the concept of presence. Then read Stillness Speaks, and then A New Earth. Practice presence. Learn to spot inconciousness in you and in others. Watch it, don't react. See the reaction manifest in your mind. Laugh at it.
Once you understand presence, once you know how to JUST BE, you will be ready for all the scriptures. You will see the meaning behind Buddha's words. Your meditation will improve. From this on, you will be able to chose any Buddhist tradition that fits best the way you wanna live your life. You must persist my friend
Reincarnation is real. I will write more in my blog on the weekend
You don't get it Tutz. The principle obstacle for a person's well-being, and by extension their spiritual life, is the economic prison they are stuck in. The domination of a human being or a group of human beings on another. We used to be able to escape from such situations that led our biological structure to become damaged, either by fighting or running away or mutual avoidance, throughout human evolution, up until the point where you have these large cities, social inhibitions, and the need to labour for someone else in order to sustain your existence (for the majority of people) . In such a society the threats leading to such states are more common and they persist in a chronic fashion, but they are abstract; the malaise is wide spread, and it comes out in many different illnesses (psychosocial stress--->psychosomatic illnesses) and forms of aggression that can get people into serious trouble. What I was saying is that joining a Sangha, a group of monks in a monastery, is one of the few escapes possible. You no longer need money, even take a vow no longer to touch it. Your existence is preserved by the laity. I never expected it to save me from all suffering, how dumb would I be? But getting away from the grind is the most pressing part for anyone wishing to live well.
I read the Power of Now several times. I've known about Tolle for like 10 years. There's nothing unique about his teachings, it's a new age repackaging of Vedanta. A book like this leads a lot of people to false awakenings. As for Osho, my ex best friend went to one of his ashrams for a long period. Only thing he got out of it was a baby because he impregnated a Korean girl while he was there. He's still as unenghlightened as ever, falling for all sorts of alternative medicine scams. This isn't an argument against Osho, but it's obvious that these teachers don't just attract people from the Oprah book club but people with serious issues that often aren't ameliorated by listening to them.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On November 29 2018 00:51 Stroggoz wrote:
depression is not understood very well. Many cases of depression must have a lot of sociological, geographic contributing causes though, imo. I don't think charlatans like lacan or peterson are helpful. You could probably get better advice from close family members than psychologists or psychiatrists most of the time. Certainly agree with loco that LP is a terrible place for advice on these matters. Personally for me, studying and getting involved in politics cures me of depression, so does not coming to LP. It's not a model solution for anyone else. Also i think that depression can sometimes be a good thing or at least a bad side effect of a greater good.
I like my current psychiatrist/psycho-analyst/therapist but I do agree with you. A phone call with my sister who is also a therapist has tended to be very valuable. My mom is good to talk to also but she is on a repositioning cruise out at sea for a week. LP you get a mixed bag. There are some ok discussions. There are some lulz. I think I have seen this in multiple places one of them being Sartre but the idea is that activism is one of those things people find liberating, worth doing, etc. It becomes a meaning that can overcome the meaningless of life. I am way too cynical in matters of politics, governments, and corporations. I would rather live on Pun Pun farm in Thailand and learn the ways of sustainable living.
On November 29 2018 17:36 Loco wrote:
You don't get it Tutz. The principle obstacle for a person's well-being, and by extension their spiritual life, is the economic prison they are stuck in. The domination of a human being or a group of human beings on another. We used to be able to escape from such situations that led our biological structure to become damaged, either by fighting or running away or mutual avoidance, throughout human evolution, up until the point where you have these large cities, social inhibitions, and the need to labour for someone else in order to sustain your existence (for the majority of people) . In such a society the threats leading to such states are more common and they persist in a chronic fashion, but they are abstract; the malaise is wide spread, and it comes out in many different illnesses (psychosocial stress--->psychosomatic illnesses) and forms of aggression that can get people into serious trouble. What I was saying is that joining a Sangha, a group of monks in a monastery, is one of the few escapes possible. You no longer need money, even take a vow no longer to touch it. Your existence is preserved by the laity. I never expected it to save me from all suffering, how dumb would I be? But getting away from the grind is the most pressing part for anyone wishing to live well.
I read the Power of Now several times. I've known about Tolle for like 10 years. There's nothing unique about his teachings, it's a new age repackaging of Vedanta. A book like this leads a lot of people to false awakenings. As for Osho, my ex best friend went to one of his ashrams for a long period. Only thing he got out of it was a baby because he impregnated a Korean girl while he was there. He's still as unenghlightened as ever, falling for all sorts of alternative medicine scams. This isn't an argument against Osho, but it's obvious that these teachers don't just attract people from the Oprah book club but people with serious issues that often aren't ameliorated by listening to them.
I see. From this, I believe I have just a few things I could add to you.
From what you said it seems clear to me, and I say this with all due respect to you, that you are still being deeply held down by your bundle of thoughts. You are rationalizing something that must be felt. But you can never allow yourself to feel anything while being dominated by the mind. In this condition, everything will be superficial. I'm sorry if I'm too abstract at times. Spiritual teachings are best transmitted in the form of parables, or examples, cause that's the best way to cut through all the layers of thinking.
Can I ask why did you read the Power of Now several times, as you said? If it was useless the first time, why read the second? Also, it's a given that Tolle's teachings, as well as Osho's, or Buddha's, or Christ's teachings, have nothing new in them. They are different pointers to the same universal truth. Different ways of saying the same exact thing.
I can feel the sense of superiority in your words when talking to me. Ask yourself, why? Why do I have to, through my words, make it clear how superior I am to him, even if subtly? Or to anyone in this forum? Could that type of unexamined thought pattern be harming my spiritual awakening? Moreover, where does this thought even comes from? Ego? Or my true self?
I will not try to win this argument, as there is nothing to be won here. There is only consciousness, or the lack of it.
It wasn't useless at those times because I was an uneducated poker player who was focused on trying to achieve financial freedom. It introduced me to ideas that would help me to detach from my emotions and be a better poker player. I returned to that book at times where my romantic life went sour. It was a palliative. It worked wonderfully. I actually had my best poker year ($100k, $1/hand) after reading the book the second time and overcoming that one heartache in 2008-2009. I hadn't read about Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism straight from the source yet. Once you've drunk the clearest spring water there is, you no longer wish to go back to bottled water. I also hadn't learned the things I've integrated in my thinking from biology, sociology, economics, ecology, complexity theory, etc. and which these non-duality teachings say next to nothing about, yet are fundamental to understanding the world we live in today.
I can feel the sense of superiority in your words when talking to me
That's called projection. You probably won't learn about it reading Tolle.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On November 29 2018 18:49 Loco wrote:
It wasn't useless at those times because I was an uneducated poker player who was focused on trying to achieve financial freedom. It introduced me to ideas that would help me to detach from my emotions and be a better poker player. I returned to that book at times where my romantic life went sour. It was a palliative. It worked wonderfully. I actually had my best poker year ($100k, $1/hand) after reading the book the second time and overcoming that one heartache in 2008-2009. I hadn't read about Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism straight from the source yet. Once you've drunk the clearest spring water there is, you no longer wish to go back to bottled water. I also hadn't learned the things I've integrated in my thinking from biology, sociology, economics, ecology, complexity theory, etc. and which these non-duality teachings say next to nothing about, yet are fundamental to understanding the world we live in today.
I can feel the sense of superiority in your words when talking to me
That's called projection. You probably won't learn about it reading Tolle.
Alright, no problem my friend.
I'm very sorry if in any way I made it look like I was superior to you in any way. I'm not. I will examine my words better in the future so I don't make people feel that way anymore.
I hope you find what you are looking for my friend.
Namastê
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PoorUser United States. Nov 29 2018 20:13. Posts 7471
On November 28 2018 21:47 Baalim wrote:
I've always found it curious that depress people gravitate towards alcohol and other depressants and manic paranoid people gravitate towards cocain and uppers... it seems counterintuitive, instead of looking for balance we are looking to potentialize our neurosis and self destruct
just a few quick notes - alcohol is a stimulant in smaller doses hence its abuse by people with a wide range of conditions (though ease of availability relative to other drugs, social acceptableness and a million other reasons add to that as well), when it comes specifically to the subset of people who have bouts of mania, are aware of them and are working towards some improvement [and still use drugs], marijuana is the most used drug by a pretty wide margin. (again, thats not exactly what you were talking about so its more meant as an appendix)
On November 29 2018 00:51 Stroggoz wrote:
depression is not understood very well...You could probably get better advice from close family members than psychologists or psychiatrists most of the time.
i dont want to jump too much into the whole post but there's a bit of a disconnect here. i suspect you meant 'depression is not understood very well' in terms of scientific understanding and theres a good amount of truth to that. that said, i think that sentence would fit equally well when talking about society in general. there isn't a ton of awareness/recognition between general run-of-the-mill depression and clinical depression and that ignorance can make talking to a loved one, or advice proferred there from, to be a pretty bad time. that said, talking to a loved one who is (if not super knowledgeable on the subject to begin with) open-minded, empathetic and knows the person intimately is a solid way to improve one's life a non-zero amount in almost any situation.
"All that I know is that I know nothing" said Socrates. Well, you could add to that that, short of having certainties, you know that living 'as if' something is true can have more value than not to.
Believing in something that isn't true only because it is useful is profoundly intellectually dishonest - Bertrand Shaw
Its obvious that nobody knows what happens when we die, however the most logical assumption and most likely scenario would be that we return to the non-consciousness that has had us for the last few billion years, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool, anyone who claims otherwise is a charlatan.
As I said, reincarnation isn't any more mature than clouds, golden harps and cherubs, it isn't any more sophisticated than the 72 virgins, it is simply the ego fighting its worst enemy, oblivion.
This quote is misplaced. We're not talking about belief in false things. The 'as if' is applicable to things that are constructs, which are necessarily open-ended and not directly verifiable/provable. Like this subject of non-duality that is popping up often in posts by longple, tutz, napalm... the idea that things come from one ultimate source and all things go back to it and are it. It's something that some physicists like Schrodinger believed and you can find support for it outside of the loony bin. Living as if something like this is true would not be the same thing as believing in a lie. I'm not saying this is how one should approach life, btw, I'm making no value judgment with relation to this argument. In fact, it is a bit comical for me to be arguing this point in a devil's advocate kind of way here when I was the one who was annoyed with Jordan Peterson playing with this while you thought "his pragmatisim [and lack of skepticism] is what makes him interesting".
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
So, it's been a few days now and I'm still in it. I'm ok with that though for the most part. I sleep a lot, I go to work, I visit the internet, and read. One thing I've been thinking about is just how brainwashed I am from AA and how is that effecting me? I know for one thing not going seems to effect my well being. I am missing a fellowship but at the same time going effects my well being because that fellowship is brainwashed and attempting to brainwash me. It would be nice to have somewhere to go. I don't know where to go. Besides sleep and making pizzas for people.
This whole tutz situation kind of outlines what I don't like about "spirituality." It just makes me want to stay away even more.
On December 02 2018 17:29 RiKD wrote:
So, it's been a few days now and I'm still in it. I'm ok with that though for the most part. I sleep a lot, I go to work, I visit the internet, and read. One thing I've been thinking about is just how brainwashed I am from AA and how is that effecting me? I know for one thing not going seems to effect my well being. I am missing a fellowship but at the same time going effects my well being because that fellowship is brainwashed and attempting to brainwash me. It would be nice to have somewhere to go. I don't know where to go. Besides sleep and making pizzas for people.
This whole tutz situation kind of outlines what I don't like about "spirituality." It just makes me want to stay away even more.
I'm sorry to hear that man. I hope things turn around soon.
Namastê
Last edit: 02/12/2018 19:00
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hiems United States. Dec 02 2018 19:12. Posts 2979
On December 02 2018 17:29 RiKD wrote:
So, it's been a few days now and I'm still in it. I'm ok with that though for the most part. I sleep a lot, I go to work, I visit the internet, and read. One thing I've been thinking about is just how brainwashed I am from AA and how is that effecting me? I know for one thing not going seems to effect my well being. I am missing a fellowship but at the same time going effects my well being because that fellowship is brainwashed and attempting to brainwash me. It would be nice to have somewhere to go. I don't know where to go. Besides sleep and making pizzas for people.
This whole tutz situation kind of outlines what I don't like about "spirituality." It just makes me want to stay away even more.
make 3 pizzas. ejaculate in one of the pizza doughs. if tutz can correctly identify which pizza is the one with your jizz then we will know that he is truly the one that has opened his third eye.
I beat Loco!!! [img]https://i.imgur.com/wkwWj2d.png[/img]
On November 27 2018 08:32 SleepyHead wrote:
Life is super short dude. Stop worrying about stupid shit and enjoy your life
I don't know if you understand depression. I was having difficulty getting out of bed. When I wrote OP I literally felt like I could not do anything besides sleep. I think I slept 15 hours yesterday? I got to the bank before it closed, went to the beach and decided it was too cold to go for a walk, and then came home and actually got the bills done. That felt like a major win and picked up some momentum to do some dishes and make a dish my Thai Aunt was telling me about.
How do I enjoy my life?
I can't say that I understand exactly what you're going through but I can answer the question. You enjoy your life by doing things that you enjoy doing
Dude you some social darwinist ideas that they are giving hitlers ghost a boner - Baal
United States. Nov 29 2018 18:11. Posts 8535
