Yea you keep eating like that meanwhile I'd rather kill myself. No point giving you studies since you will reply with cherrypicked obese people doing better on vegan diets muh heart disease I'll die of heart disease but at least I wasn't miserable my entire life.
It's relative. A food is more or less healthy than another food. Compared to whole plant foods, beef is unhealthy. Simple. You've just conceded that beans are healthier than beef and that this switch would make your life miserable, now you're back-peddling.
I've found some issues with NutritionFacts before, but nothing so significant that it changes the overall advice. He posts all his sources for the videos and I always review them if I need to. I can think for myself and I don't need to take anyone's word for how to live my life. He's only reviewing the literature, he's not authoring the many peer-reviewed studies he's discussing. Everyone's free to look at it and interpret it differently. He has nothing to hide and he doesn't profit from any of it, which makes him a much more reliable source of information than anything you've ever shared around here.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I haven't conceded anything dem phytoestrogens tho... You are so ungrateful thats how most people respond when I find this treasure cave of information even for your vegan ass.
I posted the biggest study done comparing bioavailable androgens and diet and you went and tried to cherrypick with the BJN study (a smaller less significant study) but you failed to even read the abstract properly.... that study supports the one I posted: "Blood concentrations of sex hormones did not differ after the two diets". Blood concentrations are what matter. Fail. And here's another smaller one from the same journal again supporting the previous findings (higher total T but overall it's a wash due to the higher SHBG): https://www.cambridge.org/core/journa...ores/27DDFF5DF01A55EA4E1ECDBA443B7896
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
SHBG to be 8·8 % higher on the tofu diet (mean difference 3 (95 % CI 0·7, 5·2) nmol/l; (P=0·01) and testosterone:oestradiol to be significantly lower, P=0·049).
This study did find that soy decreased sperm concentration, and was used to lambaste vegans by the media, but when you bother to look at it, it wasn't interpreted properly. It didn't significantly affect the sperm count itself. Because of a larger ejaculate volume, soy appears to stimulate the prostate gland to produce a larger load of ejaculate fluid, but the actual number of sperm remains the same. http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/11/2584.long
There's actual mammalian estrogen (not phyto, which have some benefits to them) in meat, dairy and eggs. And in good Mortensen fashion, I will post a bunch of shit without context for you to deal with:
On November 28 2016 14:32 Mortensen8 wrote:
SHBG to be 8·8 % higher on the tofu diet (mean difference 3 (95 % CI 0·7, 5·2) nmol/l; (P=0·01) and testosterone:oestradiol to be significantly lower, P=0·049).
Yes, SHBG is higher because total T is higher in vegans. That's the point. That's what makes it a wash. You just take one variable and refuse to look at the big picture.
More fiber in the diet = more estrogen excreted. You eat a fiber deficient diet that's high in mammalian estrogen. Not too smart. "We conclude that vegetarian women have an increased fecal output, which leads to increased fecal excretion of estrogen and a decreased plasma concentration of estrogen." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7144835
You posted a study that just followed one person. I can also do that. BJJ black belt low fat vegan's testosterone results: https://youtu.be/aQhDaACSrrw?t=443
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
You're not countering anything. This is just lazy even for you. This is the study that I just posted and used to prove my point that people look at one variable and ignore the big picture. It's the same study that I quoted in the post right above yours:
This study did find that soy decreased sperm concentration, and was used to lambaste vegans by the media, but when you bother to look at it, it wasn't interpreted properly. It didn't significantly affect the sperm count itself. Because of a larger ejaculate volume, soy appears to stimulate the prostate gland to produce a larger load of ejaculate fluid, but the actual number of sperm remains about the same. http://humrep.oxfordjournals.org/content/23/11/2584.long
You can clearly see this in table 2: total sperm count decrease is not statistically significant (p=0.65) unlike the sperm concentration, but of course you'd never read that far:
What a gigantic waste of time. I'm done. Enjoy reading two sentences of an abstract that you think makes your point while ignoring everything else. So far you've only managed to look dumber every time you posted.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
What about fat then Loco ... Polyunsaturated fat is bad for T saturated and mono's are good? I guess how you would do it on vegan is coconut oil and dark chocolate?
On November 28 2016 14:32 Mortensen8 wrote:
SHBG to be 8·8 % higher on the tofu diet (mean difference 3 (95 % CI 0·7, 5·2) nmol/l; (P=0·01) and testosterone:oestradiol to be significantly lower, P=0·049).
Yes, SHBG is higher because total T is higher in vegans. That's the point. That's what makes it a wash. You just take one variable and refuse to look at the big picture.
More fiber in the diet = more estrogen excreted. You eat a fiber deficient diet that's high in mammalian estrogen. Not too smart. "We conclude that vegetarian women have an increased fecal output, which leads to increased fecal excretion of estrogen and a decreased plasma concentration of estrogen." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7144835
You posted a study that just followed one person. I can also do that. BJJ black belt low fat vegan's testosterone results: https://youtu.be/aQhDaACSrrw?t=443
Apparently this is not true high SHBG does not lead to high testosterone.
Don't tell me you don't miss it. Snap out of it and the onions and mushrooms that you saute afterwards in the pan in the juices is so nice.
I miss bacon sometimes. I don't particularly miss steaks. Perhaps miss chorizo. Actually, I miss Argentinian bife de lomo con malbec. The other day I was missing these frozen Chicago deep dish sausage pizzas and caubernet or chianti. I don't really think about these things though. I thought I might have some turkey at Thanksgiving but then I just did not want any. More sweet potatoes for me. I did have some pumkin pie though. There was butter added to the corn and green beans. I just went with it. I would prefer the butter not be in there but if I am someone's guest and they are cooking for me on a holiday I don't mind going with the flow a bit. If I am cooking for myself it is easy. If others are cooking for me it is hard to eliminate the butter at times. A weird thing happened for me that the awesome sustenance that was now in more abundance on the plate just does the trick for me. To replace some excellently cooked sweet potatoes or black bean salsa tacos or a vegan chile with a piece of chicken sounds horrible.
On November 28 2016 14:32 Mortensen8 wrote:
SHBG to be 8·8 % higher on the tofu diet (mean difference 3 (95 % CI 0·7, 5·2) nmol/l; (P=0·01) and testosterone:oestradiol to be significantly lower, P=0·049).
Yes, SHBG is higher because total T is higher in vegans. That's the point. That's what makes it a wash. You just take one variable and refuse to look at the big picture.
More fiber in the diet = more estrogen excreted. You eat a fiber deficient diet that's high in mammalian estrogen. Not too smart. "We conclude that vegetarian women have an increased fecal output, which leads to increased fecal excretion of estrogen and a decreased plasma concentration of estrogen." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7144835
You posted a study that just followed one person. I can also do that. BJJ black belt low fat vegan's testosterone results: https://youtu.be/aQhDaACSrrw?t=443
Apparently this is not true high SHBG does not lead to high testosterone.
Don't tell me you don't miss it. Snap out of it and the onions and mushrooms that you saute afterwards in the pan in the juices is so nice.
Which testosterone? I've never said that elevated SHBG leads to higher free testosterone... that's a completely different statement from the one I made in the post you just quoted. It increases total T in order to maintain constant levels of FT. It's what the most reliable studies we have so far show: that vegans have higher total testosterone than omnivores and vegetarians, but that this is offset by the fact that they have higher SHBG as well, which leads to the groups having about the same free T and the same levels of other bioavailable androgens. So, vegans aren't at a disadvantage for testosterone (as long as they eat enough fat). But they're clearly at an advantage with lower IGF-1 as far as reducing the risk of cancer (and many other chronic diseases too for other reasons). People can compare the T studies and come up with their own conclusion, but the decrease in chronic disease risk is pretty much indisputable at this point. One thing's for sure, even if it did reduce my total T slightly as suggested in some of the studies you posted, I'd still eat this way because of the overall benefits. But it doesn't, and the bottom line is, if you want to have higher T naturally, you should have more sex and exercise regularly.
No, I don't miss the taste of any of it. I only miss the convenience of being able to buy anything anywhere because my outside environment is more suited to eating these unhealthy/unethical foods. It takes more time to prepare food and I don't always feel like it. But that convenience came at a high price and wasn't worth it. It's nice that people think I have some insane willpower in order to eat this way, but I don't. It only took effort to transition and reprogram my tastebuds and microbiome and learn some new recipes. Once that's done, it's the new normal. It's habit. And when you feel good, you have the necessary foundation to maintain those habits. If I didn't feel good and felt like I was depriving myself, I couldn't sustain it long term and I'd change. When you have bad habits, it's only a matter of time before you are constantly nudged and eventually forced into change. The longer we wait, the harder it is.
I was a pescatarian for many years and my favorite meat was wild alaskan salmon. It was what I ate usually. I still have some of it canned around here. When I transitioned I ate it once in a while, and at some point the appeal of it was just gone. Now there's nothing stopping me from eating it, I have already bought it. There's no one around to police me, so no one would know. But there's just always something else I'd prefer eating, so I don't. It's been there for a year and it goes without saying that if I needed willpower to eat plant-based, those cans would already be out of my sight.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
The discussion is actually about hormones and I basically said that diet was quite irrelevant but he claimed otherwise and pushed me on it. "We" weren't discussing anything before that, this thread was dead and he bumped it with this shit. If you wanted to discuss something you could start that discussion instead of complaining. If you could warn/ban people who spread misinformation and advertise some shitty supplement store's videos in a "truth discussion" thread then that would also solve the problem.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
United States. Nov 29 2016 00:39. Posts 8535
