On October 06 2016 21:24 RiKD wrote:
"I count no day as lived unless I have loved a woman, slain a foeman, and eaten a fine meal..."
-Daario Naharis, The Songs of Ice and Fire
Are these attachments? Acquisition thinking? Or, something to aspire to?
It's just being an animal. Or a savage if you prefer. If you strip it of its prose, all it says is "Life is good as long as I can fuck, eat and kill". These are the basic behaviors animals are programmed by evolution to try to accomplish as much as possible. There is nothing aspirational here. I think if someone finds it aspirational, it means they wish to run away from their [post-civilized] humanity. Why? Probably obvious: it's because it's a simple, short and brutish life. There is comfort in that. There's no self-doubt, no confusion as to why you're on this planet and what to do. No reason to search for meaning in life when you can just be an animal. Unfortunately for that person though, consciousness doesn't regress. If you're not already an animal or a savage, you won't become one, unless you suffer brain damage. Since consciousness doesn't regress, the second best option is to artificially limit it. Distracting yourself with a game where you get a sense of heroism over acts of violence and domination is a pretty typical scenario to accomplish that.
I just bought Sam's book. This is a branch of philosophy I know very little about. I went 32 years more or less just thinking of course it is free will but that JRE video pretty much blew my mind. I agree with everything Sam was saying. I am at a point now where I want to learn more. What does this mean? There has to be some loopholes. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???
I will get back to discussion on this particular topic after reading Sam's book or perhaps I will have questions along the way.
That was a good read. I can't say I disagree with Sam on anything in the book.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???
Man, so I still think there are like life hacks. But, are people responsible for finding the life hacks? Using the life hacks? I will use the jiu jitsu example. If I go to a good BJJ school and drill the techniques correctly and consider what the black belts tell me and put it in the mat time my BJJ actions will be solid most likely. Like I can plan that out but Sam is right in what makes me plan that out? What allowed me to understand that? Even in deciding to go to class I kind of just go or I don't go. It is really a thy will be done situation in which thy will is the brain that has developed how it developed in my life. I still do not believe that there is a Great Director that controls it all. At least not in the Christian sense. This may be a simulation and I may have an alien playing my character. Who knows. Maybe there is an all-encompassing, infinite power calling all of the shots. Perhaps that is nature. Nature of the universe. It does help with certain things that tend to haunt me from my past. That was just what happened at that point in time. I am the way I am because that's just how it happened to go. It is kind of a mind fuck too when thinking like "Damn, well, how am I going to improve my consciousness." I can look at things that I think will inspire me but I really have no control of what will inspire me. Or, if I have a good idea of what will inspire me that is just kind of a lucky skill to have acquired.
On October 10 2016 06:01 RiKD wrote:
That was a good read. I can't say I disagree with Sam on anything in the book.
WHAT DOES THIS MEAN???
Man, so I still think there are like life hacks. But, are people responsible for finding the life hacks? Using the life hacks? I will use the jiu jitsu example. If I go to a good BJJ school and drill the techniques correctly and consider what the black belts tell me and put it in the mat time my BJJ actions will be solid most likely. Like I can plan that out but Sam is right in what makes me plan that out? What allowed me to understand that? Even in deciding to go to class I kind of just go or I don't go. It is really a thy will be done situation in which thy will is the brain that has developed how it developed in my life. I still do not believe that there is a Great Director that controls it all. At least not in the Christian sense. This may be a simulation and I may have an alien playing my character. Who knows. Maybe there is an all-encompassing, infinite power calling all of the shots. Perhaps that is nature. Nature of the universe. It does help with certain things that tend to haunt me from my past. That was just what happened at that point in time. I am the way I am because that's just how it happened to go. It is kind of a mind fuck too when thinking like "Damn, well, how am I going to improve my consciousness." I can look at things that I think will inspire me but I really have no control of what will inspire me. Or, if I have a good idea of what will inspire me that is just kind of a lucky skill to have acquired.
"What does it mean?" isn't really the question I'm interested in on the topic of free will. What does it mean, hm... well, it means that everything that happens and happened throughout the course of history was connected to antecedent events that caused them. It means that we aren't special snowflakes that are somehow disobeying the laws of physics. Isn't that obvious though? I doubt you thought otherwise, so what is so surprising here?
"What does this understanding lead to?" is the question I'm more interested in. It seems to be disempowering to many people, while it leads to something akin to a kind of Stoic (or Buddhist) detachment for others (after all, this is what the ancient Greeks taught). Sam is clearly interested in the power of this idea for this reason. For him, this understanding helps with mindfulness and detachment, which in turn leads to a better understanding (and control) over negative impulses and emotions which could otherwise translate into acts of violence. When you know that a person acts the way they do because they have no choice in the matter, you're a lot less likely to linger on the negative emotions you feel towards them. The world needs more of that.
Globally, I believe what happens when we understand the underlying mechanisms of the universe (excluding quantum physics which arguably cannot say anything about free will) and of our biology is that it opens new areas of exploration that were inaccessible to us before due to our previous determinisms. With that knowledge, you can do something more complex. Take for example the action of landing on the Moon. In order to have gone there, we needed to understand the law of gravitation. This doesn't mean that we are now free from this law. It only means that we can utilize this knowledge to do something else with it. Going back to your question of "what this means". What it means is that this knowledge would have to be disseminated at large so that more people can understand the laws that govern human behaviour. Without it, hardly any social issues can improve in the world. The next levels of human progress -- if there is to be a future to this species -- are forever to be greyed out if this doesn't happen and we remain shackled to primitive determinisms.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
So, I can see the strings too at least in hindsight. Many times I can not see the strings in the moment. There is really nothing to do but float. I will move when I am about to hit a rock or I won't. I will continue writing and be late to my appointment or I won't. So, now it feels like I am deciding to get up and go to my appointment but why did that thought pop into my head? Despite all my rage I am still just a rat puppet in a cage. I am a character in a video game being played by my brain and my conditioning. But, who controls my brain and my conditioning? Nature, God, a human being from the future playing a simulation, the matrix... Does it matter? Is there anything that I can do?
On October 12 2016 18:41 RiKD wrote:
I am a character in a video game being played by my brain and my conditioning. But, who controls my brain and my conditioning? Nature, God, a human being from the future playing a simulation, the matrix... Does it matter? Is there anything that I can do?
What can you do? It can be resumed very simply. "Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills." (Schopenhauer)
Your questions are all predicated on the assumption that there is a 'you' to begin with. You should begin by re-evaluating this assumption and exploring this self and try to find its substantiality. A good place to start for the scientifically-minded:
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Mostly in people that practice buddhism they go down that same alley. The self is not real. The ego is not real. Then they get to the seer and the seen. Non-duality.
Although we are only beginning to understand the human mind at the level of the brain, and we know nothing about how consciousness itself comes into being, it isn't too soon to say that the conventional self is an illusion. There is no place for a soul inside your head. Consciousness itself is divisible – as we saw in the case of the split-brain patients – and even in an intact brain consciousness is blind to most of what the mind is doing. Everything we take ourselves to be at the level of our subjectivity – our memories and emotions, our capacity for language, the very thoughts and impulses that give rise to our behavior – depends upon distinct processes that are spread out over the whole of the brain. Many of these can be independently interrupted or extinguished. The sense, therefore, that we are unified subjects – the unchanging thinker of thoughts and experiencers of experience – is an illusion. The conventional self is a transitory appearance among transitory appearances, and it vanishes when looked for.
- Sam Harris
There is no place for a soul inside of my head.
Memories, emotions, capacity for language, the very thoughts and impulses that give rise to our behavior can be independently interrupted or extinguished.
The unchanging thinker of thoughts is an illusion.
So who am I?
My brain fires. Who I think of as me has thoughts. These are just thoughts. Are any of them true? Why do I believe them? Many of them are not true. They are not me. Who is me?
United States. Oct 06 2016 22:24. Posts 8516
