Multiple terrorist attacks in Paris 13.11.2015 - Page 7

Do you expect me to prove a belief ? How does one prove that ? You act like you've found a solution to the biggest international problem the past 30 when in fact there are so many things to grasp a single man will never do that alone. I'm not some conspiracy theorist like NewbSaibot thinks, him hinting that just shows how easy to control he is. There are tons of facts to be taken and you can't ignore a single one of them, leading to the fact that there needs to be at least 2 large groups of intelligent people to go against each other and provoke a defense of each other's arguments. Which in a way is what this thread is, however this cannot work if you re not able to allow that you're wrong.
I would instantly change my mind and defend your thesis if your beliefs were actually open minded. No extreme measure is ever good in the long run, doesn't matter what the topic. I'm not going to defend myself that I actually agree with Baal cause he actually puts logic behind his thesis and while yes, he has not provided any solid proof in this case, he used to provide proof for every single belief he s ever defended on LP and you people would always neglect that with some shallow minded stupidity.
Sure Islam as a religion is what Christianity used to be 600 years ago and sure there are things that should not be tolerated. Sure you have kilometers of ground to lean on, however a solution like "bomb the shit out of them, kill them all and fuck the refugees and fuck muslims " which is what it all comes down to no matter how hard you try to hide it behind reason and logic is not what a civilized person would ever think and definitely not the solution. Strong measures must be taken, I agree with that absolutely, there s a thin line between strong and insane measure however and the moment you pass it is the moment that the problem will only get bigger.

I get it, you're scared that the current politics might lead to something terrifying throughout whole Europe, sure I'm scared of it too. The danger is very real, the politics ran in the EU are surely somewhat insane. However all this anger you've gathered is not contributing to any real discussion and is only a result of that fear. I do understand it though, if you were affected by it in your real life.

This is a topic where the global power of the USA is at stake, where trillions of dollars are at stake, where the dilemma about millions of lifes arises, where culture is what drives millions and you have to understand it first in order to take action. It's a complete shit storm. In a way if it was indeed a conspiracy that would be great cause it would be much easier to solve. And yes I will agree once again with you that my arguments are not always defended by proof and do you know what? No shit! I cannot post a random youtube video or a random article of some media claiming something simply because 99% of it is all bullshit and would be worse than having no proof at all, in fact it would prove that I am the sheep that I pretend not to be and there is a strong reason behind that and an opportunity is good to prove it.

Watch the video in the previous post with the swede muslim extremist. You certainly instantly realize that this man is an idiot and a hypocrite and that he s been brainwashed so hard that he s probably passed the point of return already. Absolutely agree. Now on the interesting part - how did you feel while watching the video? Did you get angry ? Did you instantly think that such people must be thrown out of society, in fact considering all events in the near past all muslims probably deserve that just so no risks would be taken. Now what if all media created such a opinion for people and put it in their heads making them think its their own mind that created it ? In a way its indeed their own mind, however they were led there. They have this power for any topic. They can push ideas in the masses much like "Inception " and that is even more terrifying

On November 19 2015 15:59 Spitfiree wrote: Do you expect me to prove a belief ? How does one prove that ? You act like you've found a solution to the biggest international problem the past 30 when in fact there are so many things to grasp a single man will never do that alone. I'm not some conspiracy theorist like NewbSaibot thinks, him hinting that just shows how easy to control he is. There are tons of facts to be taken and you can't ignore a single one of them, leading to the fact that there needs to be at least 2 large groups of intelligent people to go against each other and provoke a defense of each other's arguments. Which in a way is what this thread is, however this cannot work if you re not able to allow that you're wrong. I would instantly change my mind and defend your thesis if your beliefs were actually open minded. No extreme measure is ever good in the long run, doesn't matter what the topic. I'm not going to defend myself that I actually agree with Baal cause he actually puts logic behind his thesis and while yes, he has not provided any solid proof in this case, he used to provide proof for every single belief he s ever defended on LP and you people would always neglect that with some shallow minded stupidity. Sure Islam as a religion is what Christianity used to be 600 years ago and sure there are things that should not be tolerated. Sure you have kilometers of ground to lean on, however a solution like "bomb the shit out of them, kill them all and fuck the refugees and fuck muslims " which is what it all comes down to no matter how hard you try to hide it behind reason and logic is not what a civilized person would ever think and definitely not the solution. Strong measures must be taken, I agree with that absolutely, there s a thin line between strong and insane measure however and the moment you pass it is the moment that the problem will only get bigger.

islam is what christian CHURCH used to be 600 years ago. just compare lives of these two prophets. islam is bad in its very core. does this make me close-minded in your eyes?
i do think anyone who decides muhamad ideals are worth following is a retard.
secret services officially stated: security thread is directly proportional to % of muslims in population. which is quite obv. i dont need to be culturally enriched, i dont want them in europe. does this mean i want to nuke saudi arabia? ofc not.
you cant tolerate intolerant culture, so somewhat drastic measures need to be applied. not letting migrants in would be a good start, anyone who crosses 5 states isnt a war refugee anyway
you claim extreme measures arent good in long term, well define long time? if it extends our lifetime?

On November 19 2015 15:59 Spitfiree wrote: I get it, you're scared that the current politics might lead to something terrifying throughout whole Europe, sure I'm scared of it too. The danger is very real, the politics ran in the EU are surely somewhat insane. However all this anger you've gathered is not contributing to any real discussion and is only a result of that fear. I do understand it though, if you were affected by it in your real life. This is a topic where the global power of the USA is at stake, where trillions of dollars are at stake, where the dilemma about millions of lifes arises, where culture is what drives millions and you have to understand it first in order to take action. It's a complete shit storm. In a way if it was indeed a conspiracy that would be great cause it would be much easier to solve. And yes I will agree once again with you that my arguments are not always defended by proof and do you know what? No shit! I cannot post a random youtube video or a random article of some media claiming something simply because 99% of it is all bullshit and would be worse than having no proof at all, in fact it would prove that I am the sheep that I pretend not to be and there is a strong reason behind that and an opportunity is good to prove it. Watch the video in the previous post with the swede muslim extremist. You certainly instantly realize that this man is an idiot and a hypocrite and that he s been brainwashed so hard that he s probably passed the point of return already. Absolutely agree. Now on the interesting part - how did you feel while watching the video? Did you get angry ? Did you instantly think that such people must be thrown out of society, in fact considering all events in the near past all muslims probably deserve that just so no risks would be taken. Now what if all media created such a opinion for people and put it in their heads making them think its their own mind that created it ? In a way its indeed their own mind, however they were led there. They have this power for any topic. They can push ideas in the masses much like "Inception " and that is even more terrifying

i didnt get angry at that poor fool (who hasnt necessarily been brainwashed, just a faithful muslim), i just see him as a danger and think some actions must be taken to isolate him and similarly thinking retards from society, w/e it may be, i dont really care for his life, life of his family or other muslims. secret services operate with 5% constant, in reality its probably more, and as its impossible to recognize who is who, i m all up for reducing muslim population in europe. couldnt care less about human rights of a person who doesnt believe in them himself. watch out, i m a radical

lold a bit about inception and brainwashing, you sound like a conspiracy freak tbh

watching this atm, sam harris pretty much proves my points


ban baal

i admire his patience with that retard

I sound like a conspiracy freak sure. Do you know like who else do I sound ? Noam Chomsky, the guy whos opinion on international relations has been asked for @ every international relations topic by the USA government and who will tell you the same about the media. Like Edward Bernays, you know the nephew of Freud creator of PR and brainwasher of millions. I sound like that cause you re uneducated. You know what lack of education leads to ? Those radical muslims you re so afraid of.
Maybe a global war wouldn't be so bad, all close minded idiots will grab guns and kill each other

On November 19 2015 18:30 dogmeat wrote: watching this atm, sam harris pretty much proves my points ban baal

Cenk is so hard to watch at times. I can't tell if he sincerely believes some of the things he says or is just playing to his viewerbase. I like the TYT format in that it originally was a fully internet-based news/opinion source outside of mainstream media control but at some point they clearly started playing specifically to their largest viewer demographic (15-25 year olds from rich families in the U.S. coasts) and covering retarded reality TV drama on occasion.

Harris's recent interview where he kinda lost it and called Greenwald a fucking asshole was epic though. Here's the link if anyone is interested.

Also quite astonished you targeted the most irrelevant parts in my post... well at first at least.
You fail to realize what ISIS is the result of , you fail to realize that even if they lead a total war and destroy it in the next 2 decades something more powerful will arise. I can guarantee it - no doubt, its a process that happens in the best case scenario 60 years apart and unless something majorly happens on the planet it will continue to do so, the only one able to divert it was Otto Von Bismarck - probably the greatest politician to ever live. You have no idea how the world works. Take a few courses on geopolitics and international relations and you ll realize that everything you stand for is pure crap. At this point im done with this, when you take a few courses there might be a reason to argue with you


p.s. also things like this

"you claim extreme measures arent good in long term, well define long time? if it extends our lifetime?"

only proves that you re an egoistical egocentric imbecile - no offense, now that i've pointed to the truth you might actually start to change it now that i've given you awareness

On November 19 2015 19:53 Spitfiree wrote: I sound like a conspiracy freak sure. Do you know like who else do I sound ? Noam Chomsky, the guy whos opinion on international relations has been asked for @ every international relations topic by the USA government and who will tell you the same about the media. Like Edward Bernays, you know the nephew of Freud creator of PR and brainwasher of millions. I sound like that cause you re uneducated. You know what lack of education leads to ? Those radical muslims you re so afraid of. Maybe a global war wouldn't be so bad, all close minded idiots will grab guns and kill each other

i hate chomsky, that means i m uneducated, now you showed me. pretty much sums up what i said about you and baal. theres massive eu, immigration, multiculture propaganda running throughout europe and borderline censorship of non-approved opinions, i dunno where you like.

you think us foreign policy is terrible and also like Noam Chomsky, the guy whos opinion on international relations has been asked for @ every international relations topic by the USA government? that irony -_-

On November 19 2015 20:04 Spitfiree wrote: Also quite astonished you targeted the most irrelevant parts in my post... well at first at least. You fail to realize what ISIS is the result of , you fail to realize that even if they lead a total war and destroy it in the next 2 decades something more powerful will arise. I can guarantee it - no doubt, its a process that happens in the best case scenario 60 years apart and unless something majorly happens on the planet it will continue to do so, the only one able to divert it was Otto Von Bismarck - probably the greatest politician to ever live. You have no idea how the world works. Take a few courses on geopolitics and international relations and you ll realize that everything you stand for is pure crap. At this point im done with this, when you take a few courses there might be a reason to argue with you p.s. also things like this Show nested quote + "you claim extreme measures arent good in long term, well define long time? if it extends our lifetime?" only proves that you re an egoistical egocentric imbecile - no offense, now that i've pointed to the truth you might actually start to change it now that i've given you awareness

i wasnt even talking about isis as i dont care what happens there, wtf?
nor i was advocating a total war against isis would be a good idea. gj putting words in my mouth and then refuting them to claim ur superiority :D

omg.

On November 19 2015 20:00 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2015 18:30 dogmeat wrote: watching this atm, sam harris pretty much proves my points ban baal Cenk is so hard to watch at times. I can't tell if he sincerely believes some of the things he says or is just playing to his viewerbase. I like the TYT format in that it originally was a fully internet-based news/opinion source outside of mainstream media control but at some point they clearly started playing specifically to their largest viewer demographic (15-25 year olds from rich families in the U.S. coasts) and covering retarded reality TV drama on occasion. Harris's recent interview where he kinda lost it and called Greenwald a fucking asshole was epic though. Here's the link if anyone is interested.

also trashing chomsky, nice

On November 19 2015 15:59 Spitfiree wrote: I'm not some conspiracy theorist like NewbSaibot thinks, him hinting that just shows how easy to control he is.

How does me thinking you're a potential conspiracy theorist show that I am easy to control? You said something about the passport found and acted like "omg how convenient!", when in reality no such evidence would need to be found in that manner to justify retaliation, and if someone were indeed trying to conspire for war they wouldnt fucking do it in the most blatantly obvious manner that any simpleton on the internet would immediately dispute.

http://thereligionofpeace.com/

islam seems bad.

dogmeat not wrong on the immigration stuff imo

you think us foreign policy is terrible and also like Noam Chomsky, the guy whos opinion on international relations has been asked for @ every international relations topic by the USA government? that irony -_-

Noam Chomsky is not only against US imperialism, but against the existence of your governments at all, he is an anarchist ffs, do you think anarchist support foreign invasions across the globe for economical and political reasons? lol

You keep babbling on how bad Islam is... nobody has said Islam is a religion of peace or anything remotely positive about it, who the fuck are you even talking to?

On November 20 2015 04:47 Baalim wrote: You keep babbling on how bad Islam is... nobody has said Islam is a religion of peace or anything remotely positive about it, who the fuck are you even talking to?

In my country, and especially in Sweden, there is a contest in how to be as most politically correct as possible. Every time some muslim kills a lot of people everyone will say "oh it has nothing to do with Islam" "they are not really muslims" bla bla bla.

I just cant take this bullshit anymore

I agree with Baal on drone strikes, i don't think any serious observer would disagree.

As for Islam being more barbaric than Christianity, i have to disagree. And there are different types of Islam and Christianity connected to different institutions. Some are violent, and crazy, some are not.

in 2003 a group of powerful and fanatic christian fundamentalists invaded iraq, which has killed over 700,000 people. That's one example of extremist christian violence, but there are others.

ISIS has so far, killed many people but not as many as the neo conservatives who draw their power from christian fundamentalism in America.

I read a book today by Syrian historian Sami Moubayed, called 'under the black flag'. He has lived under ISIS's regime and describes Abu Bakr al Baghdadi's regime as almost identical to Saddam Husseins in its practices of torture and savagery, which is understandable, since he learn't all his techniques living in Husseins regime and he uses former Baathist party members as his henchmen. We should remember most of Europe and the neo-cons like Raegan and bush senior supported Saddam Hussein up until 1990, germany and america even gave him weapons of mass destruction like mustard gas. You can read this in 'The great conquest of civilization' by Robert Fisk.

ISIS grows out of something that has built up over hundreds of years, from a culmination first of salafi-wahhabi religion which was founded by the Saud family and some crazy religious fanatic. Their conquests in the middle east eventually led to the founding of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which are spreading this violent religion everywhere they can. America and Britian, the west in general have always opposed movements that try to seek to nationalize their resources, that is 'secular nationalism', so they support crazy fanatic totalitarian regimes like the saud family. It's a cheap way to conduct an imperialist policy. You keep get an elite group to do your dirty work for you, and let them keep a little of the money.

America supported Al Qaeda in 1979 in their plan to draw russia into a war they couldnt win. This plan was drawn up by the American statesman zbigniew breziznski.

in 1982, the Hafez al Assad regime in syria massacred their opposition who were wahhabi salafists, which then vowed revenge and joined Al qaeda and bin laden in afghanistan. Now they are back as Al Nusra.

ISIS was a branch off from Al qaeda, which is even more extremist than the Al qeada group is. ISIS is what you get when you rape a country as hard as the mongols did in 1258. It's easily predictable that when you destroy a country you will turn them into a bunch of fanatics. Any student of history will know this. And their are other factors which have helped create ISIS, like the ones i have pointed out. It's quite complex.

I havn't posted very often on LP and hardly visit anymore, but i came back and found a thread on one of my topics so i thought i would comment.

One of the reasons i left is people like dogmeat. I am no fan of being around stupid people. People like you don't respond to argument, for you to look in the mirror and think about what your responsible for is crazy, since it would be rational. that's why you blame problems on arabs and their inferior culture or whatever it may be. This is why the powers in Europe still rape the poorer nations with their neo-colonial policies.

On November 17 2015 23:53 Liquid`Drone wrote: in regard to US foreign policy, the country has a very long and very consistent streak of rhetorically arguing for its principles while actually pursuing its interests. Wars/military involvement are sold to the population under the more or less truthful goal of helping the population (for the more, there's WW1/2/Korea/Rwanda, for the less there's pretty much every other military involvement I can think of, I guess like Afghanistan can be argued for), but (with the possible exception of Rwanda), there's pretty much never involvement without self interest, and sometimes (Vietnam, Iraq) the rhetoric is filled with deliberate lies and distortion.

The bombing of afghanistan was one the most immoral acts in modern history, in my view. It was predicted that the bombing would put 2.5 million extra afghans into starvation. It didn't happen though, but that doesn't stop the action from being terribly unethical.

As for Rwandan genocide, the party line given by US, EU and UN officials was that they didn't do anything to stop the atrocities. This is false, both the UN and American media have lied to the point that would make stalin proud. The Tutsi leader Paul Kagame is one of the most sadistic torturers in modern history. He invaded rwanda from uganda, assassinated the rwandan president by rpging his plane, and then preceded to carry out a genocide where most who died were Hutu.. This is ignored by the UN war tribual on rwanda and western intellectuals. 20 years later he is still one of the west's favourite dictators (gets his picture taken with bill gates at the economic forum ). And he's been plundering the congo ever since, where 6-10million have died since 1995.

There's a good book on this called 'enduring lies' by edward herman and david peterson.

How are you not a conspiracy theorist when you believe 9/11 and Paris were false flag operations Spitfiree looks really really dumb in this thread.