^ Very true that the vast majority of people that hold views similar to mine have most likely never experienced anything of this nature first hand. I guess I'm lucky enough to have the luxury to look at these things objectively and not be swayed by media propaganda and what have you.
Don't mean that in a sarcastic way at all btw, just wanted to clarify. I would totally have a hate-on for any 'group' of people that instilled fear in my community. I like to think that I'd be above that line of reasoning, but I probably wouldn't be.
That being said, I doubt any of the 'muslim-haters' here have any firsthand experience that they can relate to to justify their views.
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NewbSaibot United States. Nov 19 2015 00:35. Posts 4944
On November 18 2015 22:54 devon06atX wrote:
I've always considered LP to have a much higher average intelligence for a 'public forum'. Despite Newb's handgun in his glove compartment to help protect him (hah, had to dude).
Cmon, someone followed me around in a high speed pursuit for 20 minutes, even through the parking lot of a walmart before I finally ran out of road and got trapped, then zoomed up right next to me with their window rolled down. People will kill you over road rage.
But as to the rest of your argument, I kinda see it like this; If you go hiking in the woods there is a chance that you may encounter wild animals, some of whom may attack you. Not all wolves will kill you, but there is a reasonable expectation that your life is in danger if you encounter one. There are more fanatical Muslims roaming about than any other group in the world. I dont think it is too terribly unrealistic to be concerned about them. The French police already found a second cell preparing for their next attack after the initial one, and this wasnt some stupid planning phase, one of them detonated themselves with a suicide vest in the siege. There are certainly more in the works, at this point you have no choice but to assume the worst about them. If it werent for the previous attack this second group would be blending in doing their thing. They were there this whole time amongst the rest of us, and were only caught as a result of heightened action by French law enforcement. Who is "them"? I dont know, it seems like a lot of intel already exists on these people but they fall into categories that dont warrant immediate inspection. That has to end now. Anyone even remotely suspicious is given a full SWAT type response.
But as to the rest of your argument, I kinda see it like this; If you go hiking in the woods there is a chance that you may encounter wild animals, some of whom may attack you. Not all wolves will kill you, but there is a reasonable expectation that your life is in danger if you encounter one. There are more fanatical Muslims roaming about than any other group in the world.
This is the one thing that always seems to get ignored or whatever. No shit cartels, westboro baptist, menonites, whatever are bad an oppressive too. Obviously the Crusades are bad and Catholics are a giant money machine pedo ring.
It's not a matter of any one being "worse" than the other, it's a matter of volume and radical Muslims outnumber every other radical group exponentially - it's not even close.
Just google search Abu Baraa, check out some of these Jihadi twitter accounts or youtube channels. Some of these guys put up videos talking about how to best enslave kuffars and murder polytheists and get 100k+ views with thousands of likes. It's not honest to call Islamic extremism a "fringe" issue, it's quite a popular ideology in comparison to it's extremism peers.
On September 08 2008 10:07 Baal wrote: my head is a gyroscope, your argument is invalid
But as to the rest of your argument, I kinda see it like this; If you go hiking in the woods there is a chance that you may encounter wild animals, some of whom may attack you. Not all wolves will kill you, but there is a reasonable expectation that your life is in danger if you encounter one. There are more fanatical Muslims roaming about than any other group in the world.
This is the one thing that always seems to get ignored or whatever. No shit cartels, westboro baptist, menonites, whatever are bad an oppressive too. Obviously the Crusades are bad and Catholics are a giant money machine pedo ring.
It's not a matter of any one being "worse" than the other, it's a matter of volume and radical Muslims outnumber every other radical group exponentially - it's not even close.
Just google search Abu Baraa, check out some of these Jihadi twitter accounts or youtube channels. Some of these guys put up videos talking about how to best enslave kuffars and murder polytheists and get 100k+ views with thousands of likes. It's not honest to call Islamic extremism a "fringe" issue, it's quite a popular ideology in comparison to it's extremism peers.
Muslims like these should be empowered more, sad thing is that these types are educated in the west lol. Which is why this will never be solved through intelligent discussion - the cool ones who can assimilate are already doing exactly that and are as helpless as everyone else. The rest are dying or being tortured in some jail, some are about to be killed for having dissident views.
Last edit: 19/11/2015 04:53
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DooMeR United States. Nov 19 2015 04:52. Posts 8547
But as to the rest of your argument, I kinda see it like this; If you go hiking in the woods there is a chance that you may encounter wild animals, some of whom may attack you. Not all wolves will kill you, but there is a reasonable expectation that your life is in danger if you encounter one. There are more fanatical Muslims roaming about than any other group in the world.
This is the one thing that always seems to get ignored or whatever. No shit cartels, westboro baptist, menonites, whatever are bad an oppressive too. Obviously the Crusades are bad and Catholics are a giant money machine pedo ring.
It's not a matter of any one being "worse" than the other, it's a matter of volume and radical Muslims outnumber every other radical group exponentially - it's not even close.
Just google search Abu Baraa, check out some of these Jihadi twitter accounts or youtube channels. Some of these guys put up videos talking about how to best enslave kuffars and murder polytheists and get 100k+ views with thousands of likes. It's not honest to call Islamic extremism a "fringe" issue, it's quite a popular ideology in comparison to it's extremism peers.
Zero chance you are good at poker.
LOL!!!! LOL nolan is literally one of the top 5 winners this site has ever produced. I havent read what hes said on the issue. besides this comment so i'm not sure whats going on in this whole thread. but just seeing this comment made me lmao.
I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident.
Do you really expect anyone who wasn't already in 100% agreement with you to change their minds after watching that video?
I don't care to discuss my opinions on this stuff here, but regardless of whether you agree with what he's saying or not, he doesn't add anything new to the discussion that everyone hasn't heard a million times before. I mean ffs they cut out the other guy's responses, lol. The way the video is edited, it's a guy preaching to people who already agree with him. No matter where you stand, that video is trash.
True it wont change peoples mind, but what would?
I dont think the video is trash I think his points are valid
As I said earlier there isnt much rational people in this debate, people are either strongly aligned with nationalists that are absolutely anti-muslim and very bellligerent or they are apologists that will say stupid crap like "terrorism has no faith"
The rights have to realize that war doesnt help, it makes things worse and the only reason war is waged is economical, not based on principles, and the ones on the left have to realize that playing blind, being politically correct and sing kumbaya doesnt solve anything either.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
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NewbSaibot United States. Nov 19 2015 07:48. Posts 4944
On November 19 2015 04:39 Baalim wrote:
The rights have to realize that war doesnt help, it makes things worse and the only reason war is waged is economical, not based on principles, and the ones on the left have to realize that playing blind, being politically correct and sing kumbaya doesnt solve anything either.
Cmon, terrorist shoots 100 people, we kill them, you're saying that's not principled? While there may be an economic advantage to everything counter-terrorism pursues, the fact that you kill terrorists in the process cant be considered a bad thing. I think the problem right now is that our strategy of using air strikes is just not good enough. France gets attacked and they "drop 20 bombs on ISIS strongholds". They say 20 bombs like that is supposed to be impressive. I'm pretty sure we do that every single day. Precision strikes simply dont kill enough people. The population of ISIS is enough that only a full scale invasion could ever stop them, something I dont see happening any time soon. The reason you can kill 1 ISIS member and 5 more pop up in his place is because there are no qualifications to join ISIS. Every time some senior member is killed it makes headlines as if it were a big deal, but all that member was responsible for was throwing a dart at a map for the next village to plunder.
what baal is saying (or at least what I think he is) is pretty simple.
western intervention in their politics/quality of life makes them angry, and certain aspects of islam gives them some needed justification and encouragement to act out violently on that anger.
pretty sure all he's saying is that there is multiple sources of negativity and there's no reason to act like it has to be 100% one or the other. he can correct me if i'm wrong.
On September 08 2008 10:07 Baal wrote: my head is a gyroscope, your argument is invalid
On November 19 2015 04:39 Baalim wrote:
The rights have to realize that war doesnt help, it makes things worse and the only reason war is waged is economical, not based on principles, and the ones on the left have to realize that playing blind, being politically correct and sing kumbaya doesnt solve anything either.
Cmon, terrorist shoots 100 people, we kill them, you're saying that's not principled? While there may be an economic advantage to everything counter-terrorism pursues, the fact that you kill terrorists in the process cant be considered a bad thing. I think the problem right now is that our strategy of using air strikes is just not good enough. France gets attacked and they "drop 20 bombs on ISIS strongholds". They say 20 bombs like that is supposed to be impressive. I'm pretty sure we do that every single day. Precision strikes simply dont kill enough people. The population of ISIS is enough that only a full scale invasion could ever stop them, something I dont see happening any time soon. The reason you can kill 1 ISIS member and 5 more pop up in his place is because there are no qualifications to join ISIS. Every time some senior member is killed it makes headlines as if it were a big deal, but all that member was responsible for was throwing a dart at a map for the next village to plunder.
I am not opposed to rid the world of insane murderous people, but you are not doing that you are creating more and more of them, for every death you cause there will be 5 people now strongly motivated for revenge.
It seems to me that you are aware of this, yet your conclusion is that you are not killing enough people, you should go on an all-out invasion? how can you be so dense? Obviously the same thing will happen and millions will be strongly motivated to counter attack.
It seems to me that people like you are beyond the grasp of reason, that the sole idea of maybe not killing people,withdrawing the military and stopping an ever-growing circle of violence is unfathomable.
^ Pretty certain it's a bit more complicated than that. But yes, I agree with you regarding Baal's general argument.
Could be Islam. Could be Christianity. Could be fucking power rangers. If people are oppressed, all they need is a common totem to flock to.
Afterall, people are animals too.
Analytical people, THINK. Stop being a bitch to mass media.
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NewbSaibot United States. Nov 19 2015 10:28. Posts 4944
On November 19 2015 08:15 Baalim wrote:
It seems to me that people like you are beyond the grasp of reason, that the sole idea of maybe not killing people,withdrawing the military and stopping an ever-growing circle of violence is unfathomable.
I'd be willing to try this if it werent for instances like Charlie Hedbo. Those cocksuckers killed 11 people over a cartoon. They are not going to stop committing acts of terror even if we withdraw from their territory, unless you think that is a truly rare occurrence akin to any other random act of terror (school shootings, etc).
bye now
Last edit: 19/11/2015 10:29
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Nov 19 2015 11:37. Posts 6374
On November 19 2015 03:51 whamm! wrote:
Muslims like these should be empowered more, sad thing is that these types are educated in the west lol. Which is why this will never be solved through intelligent discussion - the cool ones who can assimilate are already doing exactly that and are as helpless as everyone else. The rest are dying or being tortured in some jail, some are about to be killed for having dissident views.
40:00 maajid smashing baals simplistic views of foreign policy :D
Tbh LP and this thread is the perfect place if you d want to observe how to push and pull certain ideas and manipulate people. It almost seems too easy tbh, everyone having such strong beliefs, but having no real argument. Seems like Baal is the only one questioning his own beliefs before actually typing something
Last edit: 19/11/2015 13:01
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Nov 19 2015 13:07. Posts 6374
he indirectly confirms islam is terrible and leads to violent behaviour and opression of others, claims that "we need to find "alternative interpretation of original verses" lol ie ignoring 90% and ending up with completely different religion in the end
lost some credibility explaining hate-crime against muslims going up 17% and antisemitism rising in hundrends of %, while these statics are true, jews are leaving france due to common attacks from muslim communities, while ppl are getting arested for acts of hate-crime like writing comments on fb
ban baal
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Nov 19 2015 13:11. Posts 6374
On November 19 2015 12:00 Spitfiree wrote:
Tbh LP and this thread is the perfect place if you d want to observe how to push and pull certain ideas and manipulate people. It almost seems too easy tbh, everyone having such strong beliefs, but having no real argument. Seems like Baal is the only one questioning his own beliefs before actually typing something
or maybe you actually fail to see them? no wonder you ve been manipulated by baal using words like smart, grasp of reason, rational, dense, then claiming how knowledgeable he is to avoid answering -_-
i ve only read half of this thread but from the past i know you and baal act like some sort of moral authorities, defaming your opponents by labeling them while you seems to make antisemitic remarks in your posts quite regularly. using phrases and big words like wisdom, voice of reason, "its not that simple" while providing no solution expect for retarded simplistic ones like withdrawing troops and twisting topics into different directions derping about christianity and crusades (without knowing enough facts).
you both are not grounded in reality and fail to realize you cant "pull sam harris" on muslims. the more time will it take for everyone to realize islam is a problem per se, the more innocent ppl will die.
realistically what do you think will happen? these attacks will happen more frequenly, but ppl dont have infinite temper. all the wrath will be unleashed upon innocent muslims as well, some racist will win elections across the word (true racists, not used as defaming label asi its common today), then they will proceed to persecute ppl based on their race etc
ban baal
Last edit: 19/11/2015 14:35
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Nov 19 2015 14:52. Posts 6374
