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longple    Sweden. Oct 24 2012 08:27. Posts 4472
Oh boy, where should i start?

I havent blogged on LP since May where i basically wrote that ive been loseing most of my roll going on adventures on 25/50 and 50/100$ wich ended badly (lost almost 200k$ from peak that month only).

Since then i went to thailand for a month to cool off and get my mind off poker, i ended up playing some there and lost even more and when i got back home, spending alot on the trip itself i continued grinding 5/10 ish stakes and voila nothing worked for me, i ran bad, probably played alittle bad and ended up loseing alot more.

in July i was left with not much money at all, wich ive been liveing on since then as i contacted a few LPrs personally for a stake to kind of get out of my panicmode and secure the money that i had so that i could live my life and pay rent and bills and stuff without a problem for the rest of the year. I ended up getting staked by our very own Ket.

things looked good in the start, i won alot on midstakes and playing SH Ket gave me alot of freeroom to take 10/20 shots aswell as takeing HU variancegames if i felt i had an edge (with my pokerego thats basically every1 except sauce and kanu)

i ended up loseing a ton while playing HU and winning alot playing SH

these were the results from the time playing with Ket as a backer:



I lost another 10k on Ongame and since Ket pretty much stopped playing poker and dosnt have any money online anymore, we decided to quit the stake since he didnt have enough to keep me going on 2/4-5/10 / didnt want to risk loseing more, wich is 100% understandable

Playing around with HEM filters

Those results dosnt look to sexy, but imo there is more to it than just that, and there is some good things to look at from these hands i played for Ket. alot of my losses have come from HU deep matches that ended badly, for example i lost 35k$ to a very compitent reg on 5/10 in a single session.

these are my ringgame results filtering out 3 players and more:



as u can see i didnt do to well in my HU matches loseing 50k$ on 2/4-5/10 HU in about 30k hands.

HU variance is pretty brutal and loseing 40 buy ins or something in a HU match is something ive done multiple multiple times in a day, and normally i shake it off pretty fast (when being rolled for it)

My HU graph lifetime would prettymuch be 100 buy in ups and 100 buy in downs in pretty small samples, and its pretty standard when faceing the type of people who wants to play me headsup on HS.

anyways, i feel like i really fucked up with Ket, not really handeling the situation im in to well, i mean, playing HU against the best guys on the limit is probably not the way to go with those type of swings when being on stake, where the % of winnings are reduced u should really just look for lower variance bigger edge kind of spots. longple gonna longple i guess.

im not really trying to scew this to trick a (possible) future staker on this whole thing, u cant just look at the winning days or winning limits, then i would have even sexier graphs then ive been posting here the last couple of years, overall results says that im a breakeven bb/100 player over 200k hands lately, wich isnt to much to brag about. But im just trying to sell myself as the winning player i know that i am, and looking at it from the positive angle (wich is filtering out the HU matches) where u can really see a pretty solid edge.

More tricks up my sleeve + what am I looking for?

Since what im looking for now is really just a stake to play SH mainly 5/10 and stay away from both HU and 10/20 until im back on my feet again and have a big roll, because these past 6 months have been really fucking hard on me and i really need some help because i have alot of energy and freetime obviously and im eager to play and get out of this hole that ive put myself in.

To scew the angle alittlebit more, (i feel like its somewhat relevant) filtering out the 10/20 results this is how my graph looks like dureing these past months playing for Ket. (wich is the results for the stakes that i want a stake for)



With that 20k$ dip in the end putting the nail on the whole thing (i stopped played HU after talking it over with Ket the last couple of weeks, things looked great but the big loseing day put me about 30k$ in the Red for the whole stake, wich was where we decided to end it.

All im trying to show from all these filtered results is that there is some relevans to it, since what im looking for is a 2/4-5/10 ONLY SHORTHANDED stake.

Feels kind of crappy to putmyself out like this as a broke degenerate that hasnt been winning for the past 7 months, but i dont really care how i will look after posting this. Ive fucked up bigtime, loseing alot of money this year on stupipidity basically. I have to bite in the sour apple now if i even wanna keep playing poker, wich is what i wanna do for atleast 1-2 more years since i feel like there is still alot of money to be made, and i still have a decently big edge in the games. not as big as 1 year ago maybe, but still a pretty big edge.

Im not sure if posting it this way will either shoot me in the leg or end up being a winner since i feel like i somewhat are talking around facts by showing different filters in HEM, and i probably have enough trust and faith from the LP community as a winning player that i dont need to show these filtered results. But im really tired of messing around like this, these last months ive been thinking alot about poker and life and yadda yadda and im tired of doing this now, i just wanna bumhunt for a while and get back on my feet, cuz my head hurts, i havent won anything this year and just gone on stupid rollercoasters takeing the thoughest HU and 3 handed games my whole carrer. I dont want that anymore, im getting old

im desperate for help since the only option i have other then getting a stake, is falling back on 0.5/1$ or something and spend 100s of hours grinding my way back up. I really think investing those 100s of hours playing my maingames even if not getting 100% of the winnings (possible winnings i guess) is a better way to go.

any1 interested? cuz im all out of personal contacts to ask for help.

if so, hit me up with a PM and we'll excange skypes and talk more there.

Alot of earlier results and information about me can be found earlier in this blog, im also pretty sure that there are some "big name" LPrs that are willing to vouch for me aswell if some1 wants that

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 Last edit: 24/10/2012 08:50

longple    Sweden. Oct 24 2012 08:31. Posts 4472

sorry for the post being so chaotic and ranty

hopefully enough people will read this wall of text that maybe some rich bastard out of those enough people are willing to help out and work with me for a while.

Ive also asked Ket to post some comments about his side of the whole thing in the comments

peace

oh and also, i forgot



also nr2

maybe its wrong to be a featured blogger and "useing" it as publishing it for more attention on the frontpage, im cool with mods removeing the post from the frontpage if i did something wrong.

 Last edit: 24/10/2012 08:54

DustySwedeDude   Sweden. Oct 24 2012 08:56. Posts 8623

I don't have enough money online to stake someone for those stakes but in case anyone else feels like a joint venture I can probably buy a decent sized piece of it.


ggplz   Sweden. Oct 24 2012 09:28. Posts 16784

Lycka till

if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN 

spets1   Australia. Oct 24 2012 09:44. Posts 2179

how much of a roll would you need to start this off?

hola 

HaiVan   Bulgaria. Oct 24 2012 09:52. Posts 2083

If a single investor is not found consider doing what player999 did with the SCOOP/WCOOP stakes that he got.
Its a bit more complicated but it gets shit done i think.

Poker chobo. 

doriipoker   Iceland. Oct 24 2012 10:00. Posts 140


  On October 24 2012 08:44 spets1 wrote:
how much of a roll would you need to start this off?



exacly.

And how does this work? Let's just say *A* would stake you 5.000$, and after maybe 1 month of grind that 5k$ would be 25.000$ (just an example)..
And then what? *A* gets 5k$ back and 50% of profit?


longple    Sweden. Oct 24 2012 10:16. Posts 4472

i rather talk that over via skype with guys that has the type of money to back a multitableing "longterm" mid/HS stake, but it would just be a regular stake, shoot in some money, maybe 20k to start with, if it goes bad in the start then negotiate how much we want to invest keeping up playing 5/10 maybe send 10k more if it starts off bad, if it starts off good then maybe the initial 20k is enough to keep going, or what ever the first transfer is.

but pretty much some1 to bank for me to 6-12 table up to 5/10 and then have % of the winnings (hopefully) be able to put in decent volume until we reach our goal, if its a volume goal or profitgoal or what ever we would decide

for example i did a stake with daut before, and that started with him sending 15 or 20k i dont remember wich as a startroll, and he didnt have to send more then that after it because i went on a 17k heater right away, and we had a goal to make xxx$ profit, and then i played xxx k hands until we reached that profit goal we set before starting the stake, we did 60/40 my favour, so i sent him back the initial 15-20k that he sent me + 40% of the xxx$ winnings that i made. and i kept 60% of the profits.


Joe   Czech Republic. Oct 24 2012 10:49. Posts 5987

Why dont you just get a loan?

there is a light at the end of the tunnel... (but sometimes the tunnel is long and deep as hell) 

MARSHALL28   United States. Oct 24 2012 10:59. Posts 1897

personally, if i were in your spot, id get a loan from a friend.

id recommend go ask sauce tho, he's staking ppl as he has said in his most recent blog post on leggo.


DustySwedeDude   Sweden. Oct 24 2012 11:03. Posts 8623


  On October 24 2012 08:52 HaiVan wrote:
If a single investor is not found consider doing what player999 did with the SCOOP/WCOOP stakes that he got.
Its a bit more complicated but it gets shit done i think.



I'm up for something like that assuming the majority of the investors are people with good reputation and/or people I know/have reason to believe are solid.


InsideMan   United Kingdom. Oct 24 2012 11:04. Posts 159


  On October 24 2012 09:59 MARSHALL28 wrote:
personally, if i were in your spot, id get a loan from a friend.

id recommend go ask sauce tho, he's staking ppl as he has said in his most recent blog post on leggo.



+1 on this.

There is no such thing as certainty in life, only opportunity.  

pinbaLL    Sweden. Oct 24 2012 11:28. Posts 7243


  On October 24 2012 07:56 DustySwedeDude wrote:
I don't have enough money online to stake someone for those stakes but in case anyone else feels like a joint venture I can probably buy a decent sized piece of it.


Daut    United States. Oct 24 2012 11:44. Posts 8955

i staked longple at the end of 2011/beginning of 2012. i would sometimes watch his sessions and at first i was kinda blown away by his NL skill. he was the closest thing I had seen to how my good friend genius28 played NL back in the day. he played really tough and creative, fought very hard to win pots but was also capable of making laydowns that most regs wouldnt. ive seen a lot of very good NL players, but he has perhaps the highest ceiling in NL of all the people ive watched/been friends with.

as a horse he did have some big swings. i know he went from being up 15k to down 15k to up 30k at the end with smaller swings in between. this was due to a few things. the first is that when you play like he does variance is natural: bigger bluffs and bigger calldowns leads to more swings. and the second is that his style requires huge precision since mistakes are magnified and if he was ever slightly off he would lose a little more in those sessions. the third was due to some game selection issues, he did like to battle in tough lineups, deep tables with antes and occasionally some HU. however, despite these swings he crushed the games under the stake. i believe he made 30k in roughly 150k hands of mostly 2/4-5/10 in under 2 months.

but he was overall a great horse. he never played above 5/10 without getting the go ahead first, kept me updated how he was doing all the time with graphs and balances, let me watch him play and grinded very hard. longple has a similar characteristic to others ive staked in that when hes on his own he takes crazy shots and goes off the deep end, but on someone elses money will be disciplined. i think being staked would be a mutually beneficial relationship to anyone who takes him up.

two pieces of advice: just avoid HU and try to get a minimum profit before quitting. the second is very important for both sides. longple is the kind of player who can go on his own with 10k, play his A+ game and run it up to 200k. so the backer could be in a position where 80% of the time longple wins 10k and 20% of the time he goes on a downswing and the backer might want to quit before the upswing like what happened with ket. this really limits the upside to the backer. and it is hurtful to longple too. he needs to grind up a roll and become a disciplined person on his own. the first step to doing that is to be overrolled before he reenters the world of playing for himself. i would suggest setting this mark at 60k overall. so if you had a 50/50 deal then 30k going to each side before he can go on his own sounds like a very good idea.

im in the usa right now and im sure longple wants to get set up quick and the amount he can play and make in the time before i will be back outside the USA is pretty staggering. ive always said a good cash game horse makes the very best horse, its just very rare to find them and most horses that you might look into for cash would be bad investments. my guidelines for a cash horse basically describe someone like longple: a great player who goes crazy on his own but is trustworthy and a huge winner in stakes up to 10/20.

if nobody takes him up on this before i get back to canada then i would try and be a part of an investing team with longple, but i think its better for him to get set up quicker. GL!

NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut 

morph1   Sierra Leone. Oct 24 2012 12:05. Posts 2352

yea you shoould pm sauce, I remember him offering a stake few weeks ago in his blog

Always Look On The Bright Side of Life 

player999   Brasil. Oct 24 2012 12:37. Posts 7978

if you cant get someone in a couple of days, def figure out all the details (with a big bankroll) and put it out there for everyone here to buy pieces like I do

Browsing through your hand histories makes me wonder that you might not be aware these games are possibly play money. Have you ever tried to cash out? - Kapol 

longple    Sweden. Oct 24 2012 12:48. Posts 4472

u guys <3


HeRoS)eNGagE   Canada. Oct 24 2012 13:08. Posts 10896

how many times did you go at nl5k+ and went broke?


Rocketchiptrip   Sweden. Oct 24 2012 15:35. Posts 8

Times like these where I wish I had the money to invest in something that'll actually make money

Also, I've mostly lurked here, but I can vouch for longple being a stand up dude. He's helped me loads with reviewing some hands, general tips and ideas!

 Last edit: 24/10/2012 15:36

Mariuslol   Norway. Oct 24 2012 15:42. Posts 4742


  On October 24 2012 10:28 pinbaLL wrote:
Show nested quote +




Hey!! Someone was asking about you yesterday, and here you are, wow!!


MiPwnYa    Brasil. Oct 24 2012 18:25. Posts 5230

If I wasnt recovering from a 200k downer Id def stake the shit out of you : )
gl mate


locoo   Peru. Oct 24 2012 18:30. Posts 4561

same im recovering from a 300k downer since the start of the year and investing in real estate but i'd like to help you so I'm in on the joint venture thing if you guys wanna get together and discuss it.

bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte bitte 

PplusAD   Germany. Oct 24 2012 18:41. Posts 7180

Sick shit

U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz) 

player999   Brasil. Oct 24 2012 20:26. Posts 7978

joe also had a 200k downer, new fad @ LP

Browsing through your hand histories makes me wonder that you might not be aware these games are possibly play money. Have you ever tried to cash out? - Kapol 

ynot   United States. Oct 24 2012 20:36. Posts 209

If I had the funds I would help you.


Baalim   Mexico. Oct 24 2012 20:54. Posts 34246

Imo dont get a loan, get a stake... a loan has pressure you have to pay it back, a stake is a freeroll, sure you are losing equity but if you are in this situation and dont want to play stressed any more fuck it, make two people rich.

Id jump on this if you werent such a fucking swing monkey, this stake needs to be done by a team

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

k4ir0s   Canada. Oct 24 2012 22:18. Posts 3476

swedes gonna swede.

it's just a matter of time til you start crushing again

I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly 

Achoo   Canada. Oct 25 2012 00:23. Posts 1454

Would stake you if I had monies online ... Free money there basically imo if you keep at what you do best.
Good luck pal

Odds are exactly 50%: it either happens or not 

MARSHALL28   United States. Oct 25 2012 00:38. Posts 1897

if u guys r trying to throw together as a team ... i didnt really know anything about longple but u guys seem to have a lot of faith in him ... i could put up some as a part of the team i suppose.


DustySwedeDude   Sweden. Oct 25 2012 02:17. Posts 8623


  On October 24 2012 19:54 Baalim wrote:
Imo dont get a loan, get a stake... a loan has pressure you have to pay it back, a stake is a freeroll, sure you are losing equity but if you are in this situation and dont want to play stressed any more fuck it, make two people rich.

Id jump on this if you werent such a fucking swing monkey, this stake needs to be done by a team



Yea I agree with that.

Except I'd do it anyway because I think we can find a way to turn his swingyness into profitness.


gawdawaful   Canada. Oct 25 2012 03:12. Posts 9012

I'd be interested for a smaller part too in case anyone have a plan/idea ready to go.

Im only good at poker when I run good 

barbieman   Sweden. Oct 25 2012 03:27. Posts 2132

I'd be interested in a piece as well.


TheLink   Australia. Oct 25 2012 03:36. Posts 406

So it turns out making videos, releasing stats and being a generally cool guy works out better than being an angry recluse in online poker. Who knew.


EvilSky    Czech Republic. Oct 25 2012 04:59. Posts 8915

Does anybody still make money at poker? :/


Mariuslol   Norway. Oct 25 2012 05:40. Posts 4742

We must harness his power!!


ggplz   Sweden. Oct 25 2012 06:26. Posts 16784

glgl

if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhANLast edit: 25/10/2012 06:27

Nazgul    Netherlands. Oct 25 2012 12:32. Posts 7080

Taking a loan is a terrible idea. I've loaned and backed dozens of people and my conclusion is that I will only loan people who already have the money to pay me back. For example people who are looking for a loan online so they don't need to deposit the money they have on their bank. If you don't have that money loans are incredibly stressful, can run forever, and have much more potential to ruin relationships.

You almost twin-caracked his AK - JonnyCosmo 

Carthac   United States. Oct 25 2012 19:06. Posts 1343

Would love to help, but i'm in no financial situation to do so. From what I have read of longple's posts on LP and the videos he has published, he seems very competent, intelligent, and responsible. GLGL sir!


bigredhoss   Cook Islands. Oct 25 2012 20:01. Posts 8646

lot of wisdom in nazgul's post as always ;;o

gl with whatever you end up doing

Truck-Crash Life 

the cleaner   Germany. Oct 25 2012 21:18. Posts 3014

good luck man !

there are no facts only interpretations 

Xervean   United States. Oct 25 2012 22:49. Posts 682

Longple I'm willing to stake you for 200NL zoom. The terms would be that absolutely no shot taking or heads up play is allowed under any circumstances. I doubt I will hear from you because you probably think 200NL is beneath you.. but let me know if you are interested.


DustySwedeDude   Sweden. Oct 26 2012 04:59. Posts 8623


  On October 25 2012 21:49 Xervean wrote:
Longple I'm willing to stake you for 200NL zoom. The terms would be that absolutely no shot taking or heads up play is allowed under any circumstances. I doubt I will hear from you because you probably think 200NL is beneath you.. but let me know if you are interested.



A more obvious reason would be that he would get better offers even if he only had half his skill, experience, integrity and other things.


AndrewSong    United States. Oct 26 2012 06:22. Posts 2355

It would be nice if Ket can come forward and drop his take on his previous stake. I understand its tough to be transparent when the ex-stakee is also a friend you wish to maintain friendship but longple is publicly asking for a stake in a community that u hold a large influence in.

If you can answer some of these questions, it would be beneficial for the future backer and anyone who is showing interest in the community.

1) Why did you quit the stake? $33,000 is a decent clip to quit on specially if you thought the stakee was profitable. If you didn't want to risk any more money, why didn't you sell him off with a discounted make up to another backer to recoup at least $5,000-$15,000 if you were entirely set on quitting him?

2) $33,000 is a large amount to be stuck on a stake that's majorly 2/4 to 5/10. Was there a daily stop-loss in place? Longple mentioned that he was allowed to play in a HU variance game long as he thought he had an edge. With most of the big losses coming from these HU/short handed games, did you talk him over with buckling up with table selection down the line? Did you feel that you were wronged in anyway with the ground rules you established?

3) I am guessing there was a make up in place. Looking at the winning tab in the stake, it looks like a lot of the losses came from 2/4 as well. Did you put a ban on 5/10-10/20 later in the stake and had him grind mostly lower stakes before entirely quitting him?

4) Was there any problem communicating with longple? Do you believe that longple was in line with how you believed the stake would go?

Obviously, anyone who plays on a stake has issues. As a backer who staked dozens of cash game players long term, I understand that in order for the investment to be successful, you have to know what the issues of your players are. I think by answering some of these questions, longple's future backer can use your experience with him and fully expect and know what to incorporate during the stake.


AndrewSong    United States. Oct 26 2012 06:39. Posts 2355

Also longple, I think it may be in your best interest to look for a stake at $2/4 and $2.5/5 zoom. I'm sure you'll have backers lined up for that. I think it's a bit wrong to want a stake at bigger stakes with your track record when youre not even planning to commit on a long-term stake. It's just simply risk > reward and if you are asking for help to the community, you should be asking for help on stakes where there's least amount of risk to someone that's willing to help.


longple    Sweden. Oct 26 2012 08:55. Posts 4472

Thank you for takeing time asking some questions Andrew, to answer some of it i guess neither me or Ket knew to much about stakeing, i learnt yesterday pretty much how makeup works in cashgames from Smuft. But basically we tryed to mimic what me and daut did earlier. i did play alot of hands under 5/10, as u can see in the results and most of the agreements were done on the fly as we kept regular communication over the 2-3 months i played under Ket, wich was a form of some sort of makeup i guess. In highnsight tho, theres alot of things we probably should have done differently.

Ket has alot of stuff going on IRL atm if i understood him correctly, involveing leaving his appartment and such, im sure he will stop by and give his thoughts on the whole thing as soon as he got time for it.

Ive gotten alot of PMs and alot of ppl have offered a helping hand, couldnt imagine that i would have this many options. ive been in more serious contact with a few big name LPrs and it looks like im gonna go into a big semilong deal with some wellknown lpers.

nothing written in stone yet so maybe i shouldnt post about if officially but were working things out! updates to come.

 Last edit: 26/10/2012 09:23

Xervean   United States. Oct 26 2012 15:21. Posts 682


  On October 26 2012 03:59 DustySwedeDude wrote:
Show nested quote +



A more obvious reason would be that he would get better offers even if he only had half his skill, experience, integrity and other things.


lol no doubt


kingpowa   France. Oct 31 2012 10:28. Posts 1525

no tsure if bump will be effective, so I will post it here :
http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/649624/Herro_my_riddle_friends!.html

gl to you longle !

sorry for shitty english. 

kingpowa   France. Oct 31 2012 10:49. Posts 1525


  On October 31 2012 09:28 kingpowa wrote:
sure I'm dumb


fixed my own post. It is a blog post, it won't bump.
but, found it with the search thing so did not check if it was a blog or a thread.

sorry for shitty english. 

Uptown   . Oct 31 2012 12:31. Posts 3557

It actually does bump here:
http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/part/18/Poker-Blogs-Forum

Half Pot! 

longple    Sweden. Oct 31 2012 13:29. Posts 4472

lol "Ive been playing back and forth and been busting my roll, hm, i dont really wanna count how many times ive busted it on stupidity."


3 years later and still a moneymanagement donk

T_T

 Last edit: 31/10/2012 13:33

Ket    United Kingdom. Oct 31 2012 17:51. Posts 8665

I've taken a long time with replying to this, sorry about that. I didn't really want to think about the whole thing and put it behind me, but I figure since multiple ppl including longple himself have requested I bear in with a few words, I figure I owe it to the community to make some effort.

I got into the deal with longple believing he is 100% trustworthy in that he definitely won't do anything with malicious intent to try and defraud me. Ofcourse I still believe that now, so just to get that out of the way first even though it was never in question.

When I started the deal, I held the belief that longple has a good enough A-game to do well in the average 2/4-5/10 nlhe game and higher with good game selection, but was very liable to play much worse than his A-game if left to his own devices. What I wanted to try, was to see if I could harness his best and cut out a lot of his worst through regular micro-management and control over what he plays and when. One significant mistake I made was to not properly estimate the commitment that this would take, and of my life circumstances which made such commitments more difficult (basically gf, travel, too much of everything but poker). And so longple was left unmonitored for far longer than he ideally should have been in my opinion.

He gave me communication and updates every few days on how he's doing, how he's feeling and what he's up to, all very well. Mostly during this time he was grinding steadily and consistently at the midstakes, with intermittent blowups at higher stakes (I have no doubt there was a decent amount of runbad as well ofcourse).

After some months of showing a lot of discipline rebuilding for his mistakes by grinding out midstakes, he put some pressure on me to let him play 5/10 again. To be fair this is the opportunity he wanted from the deal to begin with, and he had shown a lot of patience. Given that he had only lost higher and crushed lower I wasn't thrilled about it but let him have what he wants. We noted that his results had been extremely good when patiently grinding it out in 4-6 handed games at midstakes, but his variance had been extreme and results very negative when battling hu/3handed vs good regs. Therefore we made an agreement that he would not play any hu/shorthanded at all when he starts at 5/10.

I sent extra money so he would have a decent amount on 2 sites to play 5/10 with, and we began. Initially his play and mindset was good, and he was off to a great start results-wise. Here's where I slip up again, instead of micromanaging daily like I should out of caution for what might happen, I left him to his own devices. A couple of weeks later I learned that he had "fucked up", played hu and 3 handed like we agreed he shouldn't, and lost most of the money I had given him. Obviously this isn't the way to make my day, but I took it very well and didn't outwardly show any anger or bitterness. I said we should pause the stake for a while until I decide what I want to do. So in answer to AndrewSong's first question, I haven't actually formally declared my quitting of the stake yet, and so I believe that by right I can continue to back longple if I choose to do so. (do you agree longple?)

As Andrewsong has pointed out, I think it's reasonable that I have the option to sell off longple's makeup to his next backer for a discouted rate. Since a lot of the losses were through a fault of longple and breaking of an agreement, I don't think this is at all unfair for longple to still shoulder this makeup from his next backer? If this is something another potential backer might be interested in, feel free to shoot me a message.

I hope this account of what's up so far answers some of your questions, and if there are things I've missed or got wrong longple can feel free to add them. Also I'll answer any further questions.


Joeingram1   United States. Oct 31 2012 18:30. Posts 943

he comes on here looking for a stake and then potentially gets his 33k makeup sold to someone else as result!


handbanana21   United States. Oct 31 2012 19:01. Posts 3037

so if someone wants to stake longple, they have to buy the makeup? Is this right?


longple    Sweden. Oct 31 2012 19:07. Posts 4472

its very messy, everything is being discussed as theres been a big missunderstanding (honestly from both parts it seems like) between me and ket and naz/smuft/mig/daut that i signed another deal with already

were working it out


Mariuslol   Norway. Oct 31 2012 20:28. Posts 4742


  On October 31 2012 12:29 longple wrote:
lol "Ive been playing back and forth and been busting my roll, hm, i dont really wanna count how many times ive busted it on stupidity."


3 years later and still a moneymanagement donk

T_T



But ur aura has grown by a lot, and no one can take that from you!!


Mariuslol   Norway. Oct 31 2012 20:33. Posts 4742


  On October 31 2012 18:01 handbanana21 wrote:
so if someone wants to stake longple, they have to buy the makeup? Is this right?



What does that mean, I don't fully understand? (buy the makeup)


Mortensen8   Chad. Oct 31 2012 20:41. Posts 1841

Sometimes he was trannying it up a bit and spent a lot on make up, just what happens sometimes.

Rear naked woke 

chris   United States. Oct 31 2012 20:49. Posts 5503

ket staked him and longple owes him 33k of profits to 'make up' the hole he is in.

because Ket staked him and they never formally ended the stake, longple is essentially owned by ket, in terms of poker. to get his freedom, he would have to make up 33k to ket. then whatever future backer he has would begin to see returns.

however, things like this happen and my guess (speculation) would be that if something does get formalized , it is likely that ket and the other stakers would split initial profits until ket was paid, but he might accept a discount on the make up.

(example, longple gets 33% of profits, ket 33% and group 33%) and ket gets full 33k back, then its 50/50 longple and group.. or ket gets 50% while group gets 25% and longple 25% but ket discounts the makeup from 33k to 28k or something.

its sort of like a declaration on future earnings for longple

5 minute showers are my 8 minute abs. - Neilly 

Jamie217   Canada. Oct 31 2012 21:25. Posts 4351


  On October 31 2012 19:49 chris wrote:
ket staked him and longple owes him 33k of profits to 'make up' the hole he is in.

because Ket staked him and they never formally ended the stake, longple is essentially owned by ket, in terms of poker. to get his freedom, he would have to make up 33k to ket. then whatever future backer he has would begin to see returns.

however, things like this happen and my guess (speculation) would be that if something does get formalized , it is likely that ket and the other stakers would split initial profits until ket was paid, but he might accept a discount on the make up.

(example, longple gets 33% of profits, ket 33% and group 33%) and ket gets full 33k back, then its 50/50 longple and group.. or ket gets 50% while group gets 25% and longple 25% but ket discounts the makeup from 33k to 28k or something.

its sort of like a declaration on future earnings for longple



Seems highly unlikely naz and all of them would want to stake someone assume make up or splitting profit with ket....kinda shitty situation for both ket and naz's group.....


longple    Sweden. Oct 31 2012 21:50. Posts 4472

yea dont speculate so much now ppl, we're all working things out


AndrewSong    United States. Nov 01 2012 00:10. Posts 2355


  On October 31 2012 16:51 Ket wrote:
I've taken a long time with replying to this, sorry about that. I didn't really want to think about the whole thing and put it behind me, but I figure since multiple ppl including longple himself have requested I bear in with a few words, I figure I owe it to the community to make some effort.

I got into the deal with longple believing he is 100% trustworthy in that he definitely won't do anything with malicious intent to try and defraud me. Ofcourse I still believe that now, so just to get that out of the way first even though it was never in question.

When I started the deal, I held the belief that longple has a good enough A-game to do well in the average 2/4-5/10 nlhe game and higher with good game selection, but was very liable to play much worse than his A-game if left to his own devices. What I wanted to try, was to see if I could harness his best and cut out a lot of his worst through regular micro-management and control over what he plays and when. One significant mistake I made was to not properly estimate the commitment that this would take, and of my life circumstances which made such commitments more difficult (basically gf, travel, too much of everything but poker). And so longple was left unmonitored for far longer than he ideally should have been in my opinion.

He gave me communication and updates every few days on how he's doing, how he's feeling and what he's up to, all very well. Mostly during this time he was grinding steadily and consistently at the midstakes, with intermittent blowups at higher stakes (I have no doubt there was a decent amount of runbad as well ofcourse).

After some months of showing a lot of discipline rebuilding for his mistakes by grinding out midstakes, he put some pressure on me to let him play 5/10 again. To be fair this is the opportunity he wanted from the deal to begin with, and he had shown a lot of patience. Given that he had only lost higher and crushed lower I wasn't thrilled about it but let him have what he wants. We noted that his results had been extremely good when patiently grinding it out in 4-6 handed games at midstakes, but his variance had been extreme and results very negative when battling hu/3handed vs good regs. Therefore we made an agreement that he would not play any hu/shorthanded at all when he starts at 5/10.

I sent extra money so he would have a decent amount on 2 sites to play 5/10 with, and we began. Initially his play and mindset was good, and he was off to a great start results-wise. Here's where I slip up again, instead of micromanaging daily like I should out of caution for what might happen, I left him to his own devices. A couple of weeks later I learned that he had "fucked up", played hu and 3 handed like we agreed he shouldn't, and lost most of the money I had given him. Obviously this isn't the way to make my day, but I took it very well and didn't outwardly show any anger or bitterness. I said we should pause the stake for a while until I decide what I want to do. So in answer to AndrewSong's first question, I haven't actually formally declared my quitting of the stake yet, and so I believe that by right I can continue to back longple if I choose to do so. (do you agree longple?)

As Andrewsong has pointed out, I think it's reasonable that I have the option to sell off longple's makeup to his next backer for a discouted rate. Since a lot of the losses were through a fault of longple and breaking of an agreement, I don't think this is at all unfair for longple to still shoulder this makeup from his next backer? If this is something another potential backer might be interested in, feel free to shoot me a message.

I hope this account of what's up so far answers some of your questions, and if there are things I've missed or got wrong longple can feel free to add them. Also I'll answer any further questions.



Sorry to hear about the mess. I've had similar situation happen many times and it's definitely a headache to come up with satisfying solution for both partys. That's why it's crucial to have a good contract in place and have things planned for when shit hits the fan. This way both party would know exactly what to expect and wouldn't have to rely on mutual agreement when things go wrong. If longple went on a heater, I'm guessing you wouldn't have given the situation much thought when he screwed you entirely. That's not fair for you because not only did he break your foremost agreement, you're getting free rolled for the times he puts the bankroll on fire.

To be fair to longple, horse is no longer a horse if you can't get him running. If you can no longer stake him, he should be free to look for a backer elsewhere. It's your responsibility to find him a backer for his sake and also yours if you wanted to minimize the loss. He should've never been in a position to publicly ask for a stake when he's suppose to be under your wings.

Personally, I think every cent lost during HU-3handed should be separated from makeup and treated as a debt. Rest of the makeup should be dropped since you couldn't keep up your end of "mutual agreement" which was to keep him running at all times. I think longple is honorable enough to agree something similar to this extent.

Good luck to you both.

Edit: Every cent lost on HU-3handed after Ket put a ban

 Last edit: 01/11/2012 02:49

thewh00sel    United States. Nov 01 2012 04:07. Posts 2734

Pretty much agree with what Andrew said. If there was discussion about not playing 3handed and HU once playing higher then its like stealing money when you do it. Obviously there could be miscommunication so I'm not saying that's what happened, but in a situation like that I could see Andrews solution of longple owing ket 33k and allowed to be staked by another party as a good solution.

I once had a horse who owed me money while I was backing him, and a solution we agreed on is that he would pay me half of his portion of the settle ups until I was paid back in full, then he would receive the full amount of his settle ups in the future. Something to think about. Crummy situation overall, hope you come up with something amicable.

A government is the most dangerous threat to man’s rights: it holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force against legally disarmed victims. - Ayn Rand 

Mariuslol   Norway. Nov 01 2012 07:29. Posts 4742


  On October 31 2012 19:41 Mortensen8 wrote:
Sometimes he was trannying it up a bit and spent a lot on make up, just what happens sometimes.



Something similar to that popped into my mind first lol, but after like 3 sec, I figured it probably wasn't that.


Mariuslol   Norway. Nov 01 2012 07:31. Posts 4742


  On October 31 2012 19:49 chris wrote:
ket staked him and longple owes him 33k of profits to 'make up' the hole he is in.

because Ket staked him and they never formally ended the stake, longple is essentially owned by ket, in terms of poker. to get his freedom, he would have to make up 33k to ket. then whatever future backer he has would begin to see returns.

however, things like this happen and my guess (speculation) would be that if something does get formalized , it is likely that ket and the other stakers would split initial profits until ket was paid, but he might accept a discount on the make up.

(example, longple gets 33% of profits, ket 33% and group 33%) and ket gets full 33k back, then its 50/50 longple and group.. or ket gets 50% while group gets 25% and longple 25% but ket discounts the makeup from 33k to 28k or something.

its sort of like a declaration on future earnings for longple



Ok thanks, now I feel a little silly for not getting it lol


Mariuslol   Norway. Nov 01 2012 07:36. Posts 4742


Huff, I was once in a similar shitty place. 3-4 Years ago, I got staked 5-10 here and there by a good friend of mine. I usually won a little, a few times mediocre winnings xD.

(Think I won the first 3-4 stakes).

Then the last time I lost 5-6k, and I got scared and didn't play for 1,2 years or so. I then got back into poker, and same friend said he'd stake me. I said I was bad, needed to regrind, learn. So got staked on two euro sites. And I played micro for 5 weeks, put in 90k hands.

Then when I was ending stake I got told I had to make up for the thingy I was down, at 5-10 a few years earlier. I was crushed, confused, and tbh a little angry. Felt wrong. LoL. (So I ended up paying him 580e or so, + give back the stake, and had nothing left. Felt really wrong paying back a crazy high stake on a micro lol, but we figured it out and still great friends xD)

But then again I've never been good with money, math, numbers and these kinds of things.

You guys all seem a lot smarter than me though, probably much better solutions xD GL GL


Ket    United Kingdom. Nov 01 2012 12:41. Posts 8665


  On November 01 2012 03:07 thewh00sel wrote:
Pretty much agree with what Andrew said. If there was discussion about not playing 3handed and HU once playing higher then its like stealing money when you do it. Obviously there could be miscommunication so I'm not saying that's what happened, but in a situation like that I could see Andrews solution of longple owing ket 33k and allowed to be staked by another party as a good solution.

I once had a horse who owed me money while I was backing him, and a solution we agreed on is that he would pay me half of his portion of the settle ups until I was paid back in full, then he would receive the full amount of his settle ups in the future. Something to think about. Crummy situation overall, hope you come up with something amicable.



For the sake of longple's reputation I'd like to stress that I don't feel wronged and nothing anywhere near "stealing" was done. I believe some minor slip-ups and transgressions were made but a lot of the fault lies in poor and non-explicit communication, both in terms of the exact agreements we made and of his reporting after of what had happened and to what extent it was the fault of slipups. I can only truly judge the extent of the slipups if i see all the hand histories, but basically now my view of what happened comes from how I interpret what longple told me over skype. From what he is telling me now, it seems there is a decent possibility he did not screw up near as bad as the wording I used in my previous post makes it sound, at least in terms of the 'no hu/3handed with regs' agreement we made.

Another thing I want to mention is that while we're trying to get this mess negoitiated, longple is showing a great effort to want to make things right even as it puts him under great stress. I'm actually a little touched by his sense of honour and strength of character, wanting to make things right even when he's in a bad spot himself and must be feeling really bad about everything. I hope we can find a resolution that's fair to all parties but above all understanding of longple's situation. We'll come back to it in a few months and see how things stand, in the meantime I wish longple the best of luck getting things back on track

 Last edit: 01/11/2012 12:43

 



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