Jesus V. Religion - Page 2

people like richard dawkins have no place in the philosophical canon, he's a scientist writing about a subject he has no expertise in. He's also a populist just like the religious leaders you guys despise.

religion_lol

pat robertson for president

lol zulu trying to talk about religion on this board is just like trying to talk about religion in a fundamentalist church in alabama, just on opposite ends of the spectrum. dont even try bro.

Revelation 2:22-23 “Therefore, I will throw her on a bed of suffering,[a] and those who commit adultery with her will suffer greatly unless they repent and turn away from her evil deeds. 23 I will strike her children dead."

Luke 19:26-28 Worldwide English (New Testament) (WE) 26The ruler said, "I tell you. Anyone who has some will get more. But he who does not have anything, even the little that he has will be taken away from him. 27But where are those people who hate me and did not want me to rule over them? Bring them here and kill them right here in front of me." ' 28When Jesus had said this, he went on ahead of them towards Jerusalem.

Jesus was a piece of shit, too. He gave no "revealed truth" and acted exactly like dude in warlord-controlled palestine would have

I think maybe you guys are missing the point. Religion is something that was created by man. Man is generally evil, ill-willed and manipulative. I want to have a personal relationship with God and not be apart of a religion. They preach man-made ideas. What he is saying in his poem is that these ideas shouldn't exist based on the fact that they are not handed down from God, but edited by a man who has something to gain by manipulating people.

I just feel that most non-christians think that every christian is a bad person/they think negatively of them.
I don't feel I fit this description, nor do I feel 99% of christians do.
Look at Westboro Baptist for example. Bunch of fucking morons, we can all agree on that. Their membership was around 40 in 2011 and yet the world is composed of roughly 2.1 billion (googled) christians total.
Let's face it, muslims got a bad wrap after 9/11, but it's the same 99% that are just normal, faithful people and the 1% that get all the attention of "terrorist" "extremist" etc.
This is an unfair stereotype, and what I believe the message in the poem is saying is that yes, religion has caused many unnecessary wars, deaths, etc, but thats religion, a false sense of what God is.

I don't go to church, I don't feel like what they teach will benefit me because it's not a direct line between me and my faith. I don't bible thump and wololo anyone, I keep my faith personal with God.

Two things you should never debate with people on. Intelligent or not, religion and politics.

Personally? I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. It's (we have yet to identify sex) infinite wisdom has created a fruitful life for all of us, Africans included. If you think this is Satan's work, I implore you to navigate our website - http://www.venganza.org/

Regardless, please stop the shenanigans and play nicely. After all, the world is our oyster!

Tanque, all sarcasm aside - I am a bit jealous of you. I think what you've recognized is spirituality, or some form of it. 180 DEGREE TURN BAMMM!. Sadly, religion has been a tool of tyranny since it's creation (actually, most would argue control was it's sole reason. As an aside. Hallelujah). It's literally still being used today - possibly widely (although not as blatantly) as it ever has been before.

If I had to join a religion, I'd be a Buddhist. Christianity and it's principles in itself has most likely committed genocide at massive ratios compared to any other known principle/threat/whatever (Hitler included, although his principles ream deep in religious philosophies).

I'm supposedly a 'catholic' although I've never went through the rites or whatever. Shall I deal with torturers wielding flaming pitch-forks, probing me? I fucking hope not. On the other hand, will I be enslaved to heaven? - a palace upon clouds, only to be reunited with some aunts and an uncle who thoroughly piss me off? No? It is *MY heaven* is it not? Fuck that shit, I want to die when it's my time. Immortality would be the worst punishment ever. But if it weren't? What if the 'heaven-sent' folks heaven doesn't involve me, or my dog, or how much I like to drink rye? Is heaven built into layers? Committees?

Ok, I'm babbling now. What I've just typed is just a tiny inkling to the amazement that analytical thinkers have to deal with when dealing with any type of deity, god, or religion.

That being said, my church is the fucking bomb. We get you laid, high, drunk, AND fishes on poker tables pre-2007. Oh, yeah, no rake. http://www.venganza.org/

Spaghetti Monster is our New Master

fine print - all it wants is your soul for eternity if you fuck up.

The idea that there is a divine creator who somehow places humans as the conscious beings who should always be grateful toward him while not requiring dolphins and african killer bees to do the same is just plain ludicrous. I understand why people would like to believe that there is a supreme celestial dictator responsible for their conscious existence but if you take a step back it is just a preposterous explanation for your existence, period.

If I see manatees praying maybe I'll reconsider, but as it stands now believing that there is a divine creator is one of the most selfish things possible. Furthermore, if there were a celestial overlord, believing that somehow man could know what behaviour he expects of him without direct communication is even more nutty.

It consistently blows my mind that people in 2012 are still hanging on to the notion of there being a God or some other spiritual essence that dictates existence or behavior. It's incredibly more likely that the universe is ultra fucking massive and we are just another aberration, one which happens to be able to discuss the fact that are indeed another product of variance over a massive sample size.

I don't see how it is so incredible to think that something could simply just exist (i.e. the entire Universe, not just us), without having to have some kind of creator. I personally don't understand why anything exists at all but the last reasonable conclusion would be that some conscious being made it all because he was bored.

I do like discussing these things though!

Some people say that the Universe etc. is too hard to explain and apparently they think that postulating something that put the laws of physics etc. into existence is a plausible explanation. I personally think this is bullshit but I can live with it.

But when someone says that this divine power which created all of the Universe in its magnificence cares about whether I fap or not, this drives me nuts. And that is exactly what a religion is. Retarded, stone-age rules about sex, morals, and food. People who believe in this kind of bullshit are wasting their life living in a delusion, and that is a sad thing.

“Today, not only in peasant homes but also in city skyscrapers, there lives alongside of the twentieth century the tenth or the thirteenth. A hundred million people use electricity and still believe in the magic power of signs and exorcisms. The Pope of Rome broadcasts over the radio about the miraculous transformation of water into wine. Movie stars go to mediums. Aviators who pilot miraculous mechanisms created by man’s genius wear amulets on their sweaters. What inexhaustible reserves they possess of darkness, ignorance, and savagery!”

- Leon Trostky

i really hate religion bashing on the internet. The hatred the internet dwellers feel towards religion just seems to chop their IQ straight in half.
the argument i most despise is the violence that is blamed on religion. As if something like crusades was spawned by religion and not by the nature of men.

Also quoting Trotsky on religion, or anything really, is a bit like quoting pokerstars press release on how good their new rake system is. Beautiful words perhaps, but devoid of meaning.

On January 13 2012 01:23 nolan wrote: The idea that there is a divine creator who somehow places humans as the conscious beings who should always be grateful toward him while not requiring dolphins and african killer bees to do the same is just plain ludicrous. I understand why people would like to believe that there is a supreme celestial dictator responsible for their conscious existence but if you take a step back it is just a preposterous explanation for your existence, period. If I see manatees praying maybe I'll reconsider, but as it stands now believing that there is a divine creator is one of the most selfish things possible. Furthermore, if there were a celestial overlord, believing that somehow man could know what behaviour he expects of him without direct communication is even more nutty. It consistently blows my mind that people in 2012 are still hanging on to the notion of there being a God or some other spiritual essence that dictates existence or behavior. It's incredibly more likely that the universe is ultra fucking massive and we are just another aberration, one which happens to be able to discuss the fact that are indeed another product of variance over a massive sample size. I don't see how it is so incredible to think that something could simply just exist (i.e. the entire Universe, not just us), without having to have some kind of creator. I personally don't understand why anything exists at all but the last reasonable conclusion would be that some conscious being made it all because he was bored. I do like discussing these things though!

I'm in the same boat as you are. Although I do have to say that "simply existing" doesn't satisfy me, it could as well be "simply not-existing" in fact not existing would be infinitely less complicated than existing. In any case I'm pretty sure we won't be able to understand it all as homo-sapiens.

Oh how I wish I wasn't born so damn early, just 2000 years ago people thought up crazy shit that is still believed today...., some people are amazed at our technology but this will be called the stone era someday, we are sooo underdeveloped and young as species, it's Planck time relatively to how long the universe has existed. Imagine what we can achieve in 1 million years, 10 million, 100 million. Evolution is amazing.

All I ask religion and religious people is to please stop saying you have it all figured out, you don't and it's okay, we can't start by the end, we got (hopefully) plenty of time, let's go step by step.

On January 13 2012 03:02 SfydjkLm wrote: i really hate religion bashing on the internet. The hatred the internet dwellers feel towards religion just seems to chop their IQ straight in half. the argument i most despise is the violence that is blamed on religion. As if something like crusades was spawned by religion and not by the nature of men. Also quoting Trotsky on religion, or anything really, is a bit like quoting pokerstars press release on how good their new rake system is. Beautiful words perhaps, but devoid of meaning.

I understand the hate religion gets, my dad and mother-in-law are religious, not even super religious but it's still just a real pain in the ass to deal with. It's like I have to take them back to reality everytime they say some wacko stuff. And it's not because I'm trying to be a smartass at all, I let go of the stuff that isn't really a big deal, but religion is very dangerous in that it gives people a false sense of reality, thus making choices for themselves or their loved ones under the premise of something that is just not true, of course those choices are often wrong because of this. Example: hate gay people, baptize your children or they will go to hell, give money to those old guys covered in gold, theres someone in heaven that loves you and is looking out for you, etc. All this choices and ideas are just wrong for life because they aren't on par with reality, yet this and many, hundreds, thousands more are reinforced by religions.

We simply don't need this, good choices can also be made from this false premise like love your neighbour, but it's not like we needed religion to come up that one, it's simple logic based on human nature and behaviour that if you treat other people right they will most likely do the same and viceversa, so it's in the best interest of everyone.

I get what you mean about the crusades and I agree, religion was probably just an excuse as it always is, but it's still at fault because without this excuse people would've seen the crusades for what they really were. Nature of men as you say can be the cause of horrible things because of the circumstances, but if it can't be excused or validated by religion or high autority they just won't be tolerated by the people.

There is definetly violence being excused and fueled by religion and I'll give you one quick example: When I was 12 I wanted to stop going to church for good, my dad ofc wasn't happy with it and yelled at me and hit me the first few times I stood my ground and wasn't moving no matter what. This scenario simply has no place in a family without religion. You could say religion wasn't the problem but my dad, but I know him so well, he does get mad and stuff some times but really the only topic in which he gets a bit scary is religion, and it's the same for a shitload of people out there.

But don't get me wrong good things are also excused and fueled by religion. My point is that every single one of those good things could happen without religion too, and we could get rid of all the bad and/or pointless things excused by it, so I don't see how a world without religion would be worse than this one, it should be much better.

Exactly locoo, The worst part about religion and the agnostics who are trying ever-so-hard to not offend anyone, is that they put a stop to progress with their thought process. They imply there is no point trying to improve our understanding, because it's already answered, or what we do know is not worth using, because its not 100%.

Lets go healthy: Carl Sagan thread!

On January 13 2012 03:39 locoo wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 03:02 SfydjkLm wrote: i really hate religion bashing on the internet. The hatred the internet dwellers feel towards religion just seems to chop their IQ straight in half. the argument i most despise is the violence that is blamed on religion. As if something like crusades was spawned by religion and not by the nature of men. Also quoting Trotsky on religion, or anything really, is a bit like quoting pokerstars press release on how good their new rake system is. Beautiful words perhaps, but devoid of meaning. I understand the hate religion gets, my dad and mother-in-law are religious, not even super religious but it's still just a real pain in the ass to deal with. It's like I have to take them back to reality everytime they say some wacko stuff. And it's not because I'm trying to be a smartass at all, I let go of the stuff that isn't really a big deal, but religion is very dangerous in that it gives people a false sense of reality, thus making choices for themselves or their loved ones under the premise of something that is just not true, of course those choices are often wrong because of this. Example: hate gay people, baptize your children or they will go to hell, give money to those old guys covered in gold, theres someone in heaven that loves you and is looking out for you, etc. All this choices and ideas are just wrong for life because they aren't on par with reality, yet this and many, hundreds, thousands more are reinforced by religions. We simply don't need this, good choices can also be made from this false premise like love your neighbour, but it's not like we needed religion to come up that one, it's simple logic based on human nature and behaviour that if you treat other people right they will most likely do the same and viceversa, so it's in the best interest of everyone. I get what you mean about the crusades and I agree, religion was probably just an excuse as it always is, but it's still at fault because without this excuse people would've seen the crusades for what they really were. Nature of men as you say can be the cause of horrible things because of the circumstances, but if it can't be excused or validated by religion or high autority they just won't be tolerated by the people. There is definetly violence being excused and fueled by religion and I'll give you one quick example: When I was 12 I wanted to stop going to church for good, my dad ofc wasn't happy with it and yelled at me and hit me the first few times I stood my ground and wasn't moving no matter what. This scenario simply has no place in a family without religion. You could say religion wasn't the problem but my dad, but I know him so well, he does get mad and stuff some times but really the only topic in which he gets a bit scary is religion, and it's the same for a shitload of people out there. But don't get me wrong good things are also excused and fueled by religion. My point is that every single one of those good things could happen without religion too, and we could get rid of all the bad and/or pointless things excused by it, so I don't see how a world without religion would be worse than this one, it should be much better.

Again i have to disagree, that is a nature of man. What people choose to derive from religion can be just as different. Some choose self sacrifice, some choose it for the sake of enforcing their own superiority. Whether your father hits you for not going to church or for not fetching him a can of beer fast enough makes no difference.

Not tolerated by people? What exactly is not tolerated by people? War in iraq? Financial bailout? All the other atrocities across the world?
People dont like thinking the way Nolan does. They don't want to think that universe is infinite. They dont want to think it's massive. People want their lives simple. So they flock to any idea that would simplify their existence - whether it's national pride or religion or any other idea. The thing is though, self sacrifice is a really poor motivator compared to pride, lust or greed, and it's quiet limited in its tools. So whatever idea people want to follow it is always led by evil men.


Thing is that i'd be hard pressed to think of any major ideology that is as good at it's root as religion. Capitalism is a really big thing now but truly it is garbage for any sort of progress. Again it is me, and my perception on life but it has to be something "for the greater good." I'd be all for the cult of science, but science these days seems to sway towards making things that have already been invented cheaper rather than better.

On January 13 2012 03:02 SfydjkLm wrote: the argument i most despise is the violence that is blamed on religion. As if something like crusades was spawned by religion and not by the nature of men.

man, are you joking? I'm not being sarcastic if I say - I'm 50/50 sure I'm getting trolled.

Maybe, just maybe... something created by the *nature of men* can be blamed on.... that entity which coincidentally (sarcasm) related to the crusades happening?

Yes stfdaslkjfdaslkjLm, religion is great and good. It's only the people who created it that cause turmoil, chaos and genocide. Oh, and also a means of controlling government/populations for untold generations of years (literally).

Hail the Flying Spaghetti Monster!!! Again. If you don't follow us, you're going to a horrible hell. The BOTTOM OF THE POT.

Anyways - sorry, I'm pretty hammered at the moment. I might respond to this again, or future quips depending on the level of integrity.

Thing people should understand is - Those who are arguing most likely won't change their views. No matter how retarded. Also, those who are trying to are most likely going to get stressed out and lash out, and make themselves look like a fool.

You can't argue with an irrational bible-thumper about how vital and rational evolution is...;

just as you can't argue how big noahs ark is to a non-believer. (sadly, wasn't big enough for the t-rex's... fuck)

but you get my point. Arguing is a waste of time. Let all of us ignorant idiots live our own paths.

I think the word to describe the prevalent attitude in this thread is philistinism, as in people who know carl sagan but not spinoza. yea dude, i am the sheep

On January 13 2012 04:29 devon06atX wrote: Show nested quote + On January 13 2012 03:02 SfydjkLm wrote: the argument i most despise is the violence that is blamed on religion. As if something like crusades was spawned by religion and not by the nature of men. Yes stfdaslkjfdaslkjLm, religion is great and good. It's only the people who created it that cause turmoil, chaos and genocide. Oh, and also a means of controlling government/populations for untold generations of years (literally).

Clearly William Donovan is to blame for war in Iraq.