Poker bot for sale?

Looks like a sng bot is trying to be sold on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Poker-Artificial-...faultDomain_0&hash=item3a5abb4e98
What sites you can play doubles on?

wow, epic :D

so if that is true with 16$/h winrate, you get the price back in 2 months.

it also says it includes the code. wtf? why would they give u the code? you could then start selling these bots too...

free virus with every purchase

Stars, Cake (has 6-mans as well), PartyPoker, iPoker network (titan), Merge network (carbon, nordica) I know all have double or nothing sngs.

Even if this bot does everything it claims it's not so simple as plug it in and get rich. At $16/hr you'd need to run it on a lot of tables for many hours of day for a pretty long time to get your money back. If you're using your own account you wouldn't be able to play while it's playing + most sites disallow bots so you'd risk being banned and having your money confiscated. Lot of risks. You could easily get your accounts banned long before you make your money back.

It actually seems like it has a reserve price. So might be trying to sell it for even more than the starting bid.

lol

clearly -EV descision to buy such a thing for 25K considering all the risk of either that shit not working or getting banned

I always thought doing a DoN bot for micro-low stakes would be very easy; the hard part is to integrate it into a site and not get caught.

i wonder how many accounts online are actually bots

On May 13 2010 09:00 jchysk wrote: Stars, Cake (has 6-mans as well), PartyPoker, iPoker network (titan), Merge network (carbon, nordica) I know all have double or nothing sngs. Even if this bot does everything it claims it's not so simple as plug it in and get rich. At $16/hr you'd need to run it on a lot of tables for many hours of day for a pretty long time to get your money back. If you're using your own account you wouldn't be able to play while it's playing + most sites disallow bots so you'd risk being banned and having your money confiscated. Lot of risks. You could easily get your accounts banned long before you make your money back.

I'm sure whoever is willing to buy it for such a price would be running it every single one of those sites you mentioned on possibly multiple accounts with a bunch of computers. They could make their money back extremely quickly even at the loss of a couple accounts along the way.

great. hope this shit doesn't go public. bad for online poker.

also. i bet this program has some keyloggers on it, goodbye moniez

On May 13 2010 09:46 shlade7 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2010 09:00 jchysk wrote: Stars, Cake (has 6-mans as well), PartyPoker, iPoker network (titan), Merge network (carbon, nordica) I know all have double or nothing sngs. Even if this bot does everything it claims it's not so simple as plug it in and get rich. At $16/hr you'd need to run it on a lot of tables for many hours of day for a pretty long time to get your money back. If you're using your own account you wouldn't be able to play while it's playing + most sites disallow bots so you'd risk being banned and having your money confiscated. Lot of risks. You could easily get your accounts banned long before you make your money back. I'm sure whoever is willing to buy it for such a price would be running it every single one of those sites you mentioned on possibly multiple accounts with a bunch of computers. They could make their money back extremely quickly even at the loss of a couple accounts along the way.

Alright, but how would they get their money off? Also, the description says 24 tabling it makes $16/hr. How many sites can you honestly 24 table SNGs at. Smaller sites simply don't have the volume. If you have 5 computers playing a total of 50 tables and you have to figure out a way to launder the money off things get difficult.

On May 13 2010 09:50 DarkDevildog wrote: great. hope this shit doesn't go public. bad for online poker. also. i bet this program has some keyloggers on it, goodbye moniez

I doubt it. If they give you the code, you would just compile it yourself if you're worried. Plus if you're like me and paranoid about your internet security you would be immediately aware if something was trying to access the internet.

Only has 16 feedback on ebay, sounds like a scam. Here's my 25k.

can we report this as ilegal so e-bay takes it down? this is really bad

and i disagree, given the price, the verification time etc, this doesnt look like a scam at all.

Risk:

$1,250 to "test it"
$25,000 if it's a scam (14 buying feedbacks, no sales)
$25,000 if it becomes faulty after you test it
$25,000 and your current funds if it retrieves your information
Getting banned from poker site, cuz it's not "stealthed"

Reward:

~$384/day if it works (running 24 hours a day)
Revolutionized poker security after this has been distributed

its $25k? LOL

you could get your own one programmed by some indian/chinese kid for like <$2k easy.

lol u think that stars doesnt check up on their highest volume players? and to pull a profit you would have to be one.. stars would just check your system to see wtf ur running, see your 24hring stars and every other site, and they would all ban hammer u, and take all ur money.. we dont know what stars has built into it to check up on us... plus this whole thing would be fucked by one of those stars things that say "please type in the word: schizophrenia" in the chat box... unless u wanna watch ur bot play 24 tablesfor 12 hours a day, that sounds like tons of fun.

On May 13 2010 11:09 milkman wrote: ... plus this whole thing would be fucked by one of those stars things that say "please type in the word: schizophrenia" in the chat box... unless u wanna watch ur bot play 24 tablesfor 12 hours a day, that sounds like tons of fun.

not the hardest work for $16/hr.

Some1 should email stars about this. They could buy it and ban ever1 who uses this/ use the money in their act to pay for it

lol preposterous

i don't see how anyone could be dumb enough to buy this

this can't be serious... lol

tbh its possible to create a bot to play DnG sngs for profit imo

whether or not this is a scam is a different matter

I remember someone talking about a thread on 2p2 about poker bots back when poker was like, hit top pair, stack off. The bot was super transparent or something so the guy started abusing the bot, and then the guy that was running the bot started actually playing himself to fuck with the poster
If anyone knows what thread I'm talking about, link it pls.

Also, the point of my post is that you dont leave it running 24hrs a day. Its not something you can just leave it and go out and watch a movie while some computer makes you money. You pretty much have to be around to watch it with some frequency.
That said, theres nothing stopping you to have your own mini internet cafe running with one site on each computer going apeshit.

I started out playing sngs on Party years ago and there were loads of bots, all registered in Vietnam (if I remember right). They were really easy to spot since all their names were very similar and in caps lol. They also played very very obviously like bots. They disappeared eventually, maybe because the games got too hard or they got busted I don't know - this was the tail end of the glory days. Oh for the Party Monster days, I wish I had a clue then.

No one with 25k to spare would be dumb enough to buy this or even need it in the first place, he might as well sell property on Mars.

On May 13 2010 13:33 EvilSky wrote: No one with 25k to spare would be dumb enough to buy this or even need it in the first place, he might as well sell property on Mars.

I'll bet $50 that someone takes it if it doesn't get delisted. People are dumb.

Looks legitimate to me ......

Payment details:
At least initial 5% deposit must be made within 24 hours. Full payment must be made after inspection period. Inspection period should be scheduled within one week of auction completion and payment must be complete before code is released.


With an intial deposit that long gurantee you are getting scamemd.

Also it's non refundable which is obvious your going to get a piece of shit if he even sends you anything at all.

On May 13 2010 09:34 PplusAD wrote: lol clearly -EV descision to buy such a thing for 25K considering all the risk of either that shit not working or getting banned

i was thinking about this recently.... the only thing stars can do to ban a well made bot, is to do a "catcha " test (ask to type whats on screen). you could just make the bot run on like 10 comps and monitor all those comps in case a test appears, and once it appears, boom u enter it yourself!
Bots can actually be really good at sngs and limit hold em

On May 13 2010 14:26 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On May 13 2010 09:34 PplusAD wrote: lol clearly -EV descision to buy such a thing for 25K considering all the risk of either that shit not working or getting banned i was thinking about this recently.... the only thing stars can do to ban a well made bot, is to do a "catcha " test (ask to type whats on screen). you could just make the bot run on like 10 comps and monitor all those comps in case a test appears, and once it appears, boom u enter it yourself! Bots can actually be really good at sngs and limit hold em

hi, i challenge you to hu4rollz lhe, but i can use a bot

milkman yeah cuz stars can check your system and what you r running on it... wtf r u talking about
floofy ... srsly observe 10 tables 24/7 ? i d just prefer playing since im probably gonna have a higher winrate anyway

this should be reported as a scam or illegal since no site actually allows it and there is about 99.9% chance its a scam

On May 13 2010 15:36 Spitfiree wrote: milkman yeah cuz stars can check your system and what you r running on it... wtf r u talking about

The standard 'program's launched' check even video game software has integrated to check for disallowed programs/drivers?

Yeah milkman!!! WTF r u talking about!??!?

On May 13 2010 15:36 Spitfiree wrote: milkman yeah cuz stars can check your system and what you r running on it... wtf r u talking about floofy ... srsly observe 10 tables 24/7 ? i d just prefer playing since im probably gonna have a higher winrate anyway this should be reported as a scam or illegal since no site actually allows it and there is about 99.9% chance its a scam

10 comps x 12 or more tables = 120+ tables
Also, it doesn't have to be you who monitors them, it could be a friend u pay 10$/h or something

why would there be 99.9% its a scam? making a bot for 25K is actually a good deal... its not that hard to make, probably not that much harder than making a good D2 bot. the only tough part is making it smart enough to actually win but in low stakes sngs that isn't that difficult

Also, stars can check what programs your running, but if its just an unknown program i don't know if they would be able to tell for sure its a bot.... i think they would do a captcha test if they have any doubts.

i think spitfire was agreeing with me, and saying wtf to floofy....

Improper use of the enter button caused me to look like a retard

". To ensure satisfaction the winner may pay a 5% non-refundable deposit upon completion of the auction and then come to Virginia, USA where you will be shown the AI in action controlling a bot's actions while playing real money over a few hundred or so SNGs"

GO THERE AND ARREST THIS MOTHERFUCKER

floofy is right. in order to even run the bot on a site like partypoker or stars you would need to run stealth anyway. Either a second computer or a vmware. It would be extremely easy to write a program to do a screen grab for the captcha. If it can't solve it itself, you could hire a guy for $10/hr to monitor as many bots as you wanted. You could have a room with 30 computers all playing on different accounts on different sites and as soon as a captcha or event that needed human attention was triggered the human would deal with it.
anyway, I doubt pokerstars would purchase something like this as the auction never states it's use with any particular site and also they're selling the logic, not the means to do anything illegal or against a particular site's terms of service. There are sites out there that have no official policies on bots, and there are efforts by some to have a site where bots are allowed. This kind of thing could be of interest to maybe an organization that deals with AI.

BTW i want a bot too, but im too dump to write my own, and too suspicious to think some1 will sell it.
There is forum, with guys everyone trying to make his own poker bot, but i dont think some1s gonna sell it, because at the end its like ur child, and if its really really really good ull start making money, not sell it.

I'd love to meet a bot and smash a bowling ball through it's face

BTW i wonder this....
In limit HU, the best AI are actually becoming better than the best players. So if someone played HU limit, he could just use a second computer where he has some sort of AI that gives him advices based on his hole cards. So any idiot could crush high stakes HU limit o.o (But i doubt it is easy to get your hands on super advanced poker bots, and its definetly not easy to program)

On May 13 2010 10:52 byrnesam wrote: its $25k? LOL you could get your own one programmed by some indian/chinese kid for like <$2k easy.

lmao

On May 13 2010 20:42 Floofy wrote: BTW i wonder this.... In limit HU, the best AI are actually becoming better than the best players. So if someone played HU limit, he could just use a second computer where he has some sort of AI that gives him advices based on his hole cards. So any idiot could crush high stakes HU limit o.o (But i doubt it is easy to get your hands on super advanced poker bots, and its definetly not easy to program)

You know this gives me an idea. I used to run only Linux as my primary OS and when I wanted to play poker I'd use a Virtualbox. If you were to get your hands on a really advanced AI I don't think it'd be that difficult to have your primary computer read your virtual machine's screen, calculate out what you should do, and then overlay advice or even an indicator over the buttons you should press. You could even have little text notes come up with numbers and reasons why. It would teach you poker and you wouldn't make "mistakes". It would be against a site's TOS to use helpful software that gives advice but there's no way anyone could ever detect you since the software is running is externally. The only true test would be to see if you're capable of playing the same way when under observation.

Could some admin please contact me by PM and drop me OPs IP-addresses?

I am an admin at maxinmontreal.com/forums
and banned a user some hours ago for a scam-attempt.
The user noted the sales on ebay, but caught my attention for
* being from Virginia like the seller of the ebay-bot.
* kidding about "selling my bot-setup for 15k" 4 days ago.
This looked like an obvious attempt to advertise that scam.

But now the user in question claims to be innocent
and states, that he got the ebay-link from here.

I would like to compare the IP-address(es) to know,
if OP and our user are different.

Thank you very much for your help.

THF

On May 13 2010 16:47 ShLiM wrote: BTW i want a bot too, but im too dump to write my own.

...must resist...fight...urge...

16 dollah/owah? das lotta cheezeburgah

if some of you are interested in botting, do it the right way!

http://pokerai.org/
http://pokerai.org/openholdem.html

being a botter is kinda like being a black jack card counter in vegas... dont get caught and you'll do fine.

but one thing i like about botting is the challenge of writing good code to make your bot perform well. it's not really about the money... tho some money would be nice.
ok... a lot would be nice, yeah. but it isn't just about that. it's more like it's fun seeing an A.I. mind fuck every person who
is trying really hard at winning the pokerz on the internetz.

there are more bots out there than you think... it is either you're in or you're out.

oh.. just to inform you. i have never used any botting software, nor do i have plans in using it. what is written above is based on a person i know who is an avid botter.

I've played a decent hsare of sngs and icm is very important. You can buy a copy of sngwizard for $99 which lets you go through your old hand histories and review them by looking at the icm values of every hand tweaking the ranges to the players when you need to. Being able to get advice from sngwizard in real time in real time would be pretty powerful, but having it just outright play for you is a pretty scary idea.
I wonder how much sngwizard would cost for their actual code though without the interface. All the math is known, probably could pay some Indian guy to do it for a few thousand like byrnesam says.

tried understanding openholdem, very steep learning curve, but if u have programming background i think one can be up an running in about 4 months time with some decent ai bot

On May 13 2010 23:16 TheHighFish wrote: Could some admin please contact me by PM and drop me OPs IP-addresses? I am an admin at maxinmontreal.com/forums and banned a user some hours ago for a scam-attempt. The user noted the sales on ebay, but caught my attention for * being from Virginia like the seller of the ebay-bot. * kidding about "selling my bot-setup for 15k" 4 days ago. This looked like an obvious attempt to advertise that scam. But now the user in question claims to be innocent and states, that he got the ebay-link from here. I would like to compare the IP-address(es) to know, if OP and our user are different. Thank you very much for your help. THF

I dont think the OP is trying to scam

I dont think the OP is trying to scam

I hope not.
But the suspect user in our forum did hide his advertisement
in a harmless-looking informative post also.

And now he claims, he got his info from here.
That's why I would like to know, if your OP is a different person or our user.

Anyone falling for that 25K bot deserves it imo

meh, i could see a market for this thing and if it does what it says it does + includes code, bids could prob jump upwards of 50-75k imo. Just not a lot of people who have that kind of money to spare, maybe someone into poker and into a.i. research or something. Or just someone who has the ability to set up a million computers and make his money back quickly on it. Doesn't look like a scam to me.

someone said it earlier, but i'll mention it again. who the fuck would sell a real working money-making machine?

in this situation i'd say scammer knows he's not gonna get the full 25k or whatever, but is aiming to get the 5% "non-refundable" - it's still a pretty good score for a scammer

so ya, to be honest. in this certain case, i hope the scammer scams the shit out of someone. it would be lolable

On May 16 2010 15:04 thewh00sel wrote: meh, i could see a market for this thing and if it does what it says it does + includes code, bids could prob jump upwards of 50-75k imo. Just not a lot of people who have that kind of money to spare, maybe someone into poker and into a.i. research or something. Or just someone who has the ability to set up a million computers and make his money back quickly on it. Doesn't look like a scam to me.

up a million computers

Great idea, bots will be playing with each other lol, -EV.

On May 16 2010 17:54 Grindasaurus wrote: someone said it earlier, but i'll mention it again. who the fuck would sell a real working money-making machine? in this situation i'd say scammer knows he's not gonna get the full 25k or whatever, but is aiming to get the 5% "non-refundable" - it's still a pretty good score for a scammer so ya, to be honest. in this certain case, i hope the scammer scams the shit out of someone. it would be lolable

Someone asked about that at the bottom. Response was if buyer pays escrow fees no 5% necessary.
I wouldn't pay through a poker room, but the last time I sold something on ebay I wasn't able to touch the money in my paypal account until I guess the buyer had received their item. Or maybe some set time frame. So using paypal or the escrow service would make it difficult to get scammed. If someone buys it we might find out the finer details.

winning bots are usually expensive, and there are ones out there believe me. pokerstars is every botters favorite site coz of the sheer volume of players and diversity of games. break-even bots used as fpp pros cost as much as 15k last i read. 25k is cheap if it does 3/4 of what it says

On May 16 2010 18:05 Try2BePerfect wrote: Show nested quote + On May 16 2010 15:04 thewh00sel wrote: meh, i could see a market for this thing and if it does what it says it does + includes code, bids could prob jump upwards of 50-75k imo. Just not a lot of people who have that kind of money to spare, maybe someone into poker and into a.i. research or something. Or just someone who has the ability to set up a million computers and make his money back quickly on it. Doesn't look like a scam to me. up a million computers Great idea, bots will be playing with each other lol, -EV.

botters are actually open to the idea of having a exclusive bot only site. you gotta understand the serious botter... it is about the "challenge".

On May 16 2010 17:54 Grindasaurus wrote: someone said it earlier, but i'll mention it again. who the fuck would sell a real working money-making machine? in this situation i'd say scammer knows he's not gonna get the full 25k or whatever, but is aiming to get the 5% "non-refundable" - it's still a pretty good score for a scammer so ya, to be honest. in this certain case, i hope the scammer scams the shit out of someone. it would be lolable

there could be a few reasons

#1 selling the bot does not prevent him from using it himself? i mean he still has his code? or he could just make a new one?
#2 He might not have the bankroll to play safely, or is scared to get banned. He simply prefers a safe 25K instead of risk

There was a guy who made a hu sng bot and get caught (obv bot was winning). He next posted a lot of info on his blog and how he suspected pokerstars was looking for bot (checking volume, hours you play, if your mouse click every time on the same part of a button...). He shared all his info with stars and asked them to hire him in the anti-bot quest.
Was quite interesting.

On May 17 2010 03:41 kingpowa wrote: There was a guy who made a hu sng bot and get caught (obv bot was winning). He next posted a lot of info on his blog and how he suspected pokerstars was looking for bot (checking volume, hours you play, if your mouse click every time on the same part of a button...). He shared all his info with stars and asked them to hire him in the anti-bot quest. Was quite interesting.

sounds a lot like frank abignail (true story behind the movie catch me if you can)

http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-foru...Poker_Bots_-_Quality_information.html

here it is.

Just FYI, I assume TheHighFish is the same THF as the contributor to the open source project OpenHoldem. This info probably isn't anything new, but isn't the ebay seller just promising what OpenHoldem already does?

So the scam would be selling an open source project, which is basically as low as it gets.

On May 17 2010 19:11 hallizh wrote: Just FYI, I assume TheHighFish is the same THF as the contributor to the open source project OpenHoldem. This info probably isn't anything new, but isn't the ebay seller just promising what OpenHoldem already does? So the scam would be selling an open source project, which is basically as low as it gets.

No, openholdem, winholdem, and one other that I can't remember the name of are just clients or interfaces. They click the buttons and read the tables. They don't do anything they're not programmed to. The logic behind the actions is what's most important.

On May 18 2010 08:42 jchysk wrote: Show nested quote + On May 17 2010 19:11 hallizh wrote: Just FYI, I assume TheHighFish is the same THF as the contributor to the open source project OpenHoldem. This info probably isn't anything new, but isn't the ebay seller just promising what OpenHoldem already does? So the scam would be selling an open source project, which is basically as low as it gets. No, openholdem, winholdem, and one other that I can't remember the name of are just clients or interfaces. They click the buttons and read the tables. They don't do anything they're not programmed to. The logic behind the actions is what's most important.

Okay, thanks for clarifying jchysk.

http://pokerai.org/pj2/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
The Guardian, one of the most respected UK newspapers published a recent article on pokerboting, namely, that Pokerbotting ain't illegal. "Does pokerbotting imply that you're breaking the law? The short answer is no." - writes Robert Blincoe after consulting with laywers. Using pokerbot might be a breach of contact of some casinos that has decided to not allow pokerbots, but even on these sites breaching the ToS isn't something desiring special attention. "If breaching T&Cs is a crime, almost everyone's doing it." says the article. The underlying problem here is that cheating in online games is normally defined as business specific, instead of having a common, scientific game theory and computer science based definition of that. Such would clearly separate activities like botting, which does not give unfair advantage from game theory standpoint, from cheating: like collusion or client/server hacking that provides one with such advantage. Not only Brits has developed the most elaborated laws with regard to regulating gambling, but they are also clearly ahead with better educated journalism.

wut

There are two sets of rules. The rules the site gives you as stated in their TOS. It's not illegal to not follow a TOS, they're just allowed to do whatever it says in there, ban you from their site or in the case of a poker room confiscate your funds. Any threats beyond that usually don't have any merit. Second set of rules are those you are restricted to by the software. If there was a button in the middle of your poker table that ended the hand and shipped you the pot but you're not allowed to press it as written in the TOS they could ban you but it wouldn't be illegal. If you modify/hack the software to create such a button then you're breaking more than just a TOS and the room could pursue legal action. Basically what these kind of articles are saying is that if a poker room doesn't want bots on their site, they're the ones that have to design the software to prevent it. A bot that just plays a game doesn't break any of the second set of rules.
It's kind of like when that poker room had a glitch in their blackjack game where you knew when to take insurance or not. The people that quintupled their bankrolls that week didn't do anything illegal and probably didn't violate the TOS either.

On May 18 2010 22:18 Perisie wrote: http://pokerai.org/pj2/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 The Guardian, one of the most respected UK newspapers published a recent article on pokerboting, namely, that Pokerbotting ain't illegal. "Does pokerbotting imply that you're breaking the law? The short answer is no." - writes Robert Blincoe after consulting with laywers. Using pokerbot might be a breach of contact of some casinos that has decided to not allow pokerbots, but even on these sites breaching the ToS isn't something desiring special attention. "If breaching T&Cs is a crime, almost everyone's doing it." says the article. The underlying problem here is that cheating in online games is normally defined as business specific, instead of having a common, scientific game theory and computer science based definition of that. Such would clearly separate activities like botting, which does not give unfair advantage from game theory standpoint, from cheating: like collusion or client/server hacking that provides one with such advantage. Not only Brits has developed the most elaborated laws with regard to regulating gambling, but they are also clearly ahead with better educated journalism. wut

lol

where do you think will botters unleash their bots? in a site where the traffic isn't that great? ... or a site with a lot of traffic...?

it is much much harder to catch a bot in a site with the most traffic... FTP, stars = botters paradise.

the best part of this is that you can take bad beats and not even spike your heart rate in the slightest. Def worth 25k for that.