Online Poker Study - All players are welcome

Hi everyone, my name is Mindy Morgan. I’m a PhD student in psychology at the University of Ottawa in Ottawa, ON, Canada, under the supervision of Dr. Celine Blanchard. I’m doing an online study investigating Decision-Making in Poker Players for my dissertation. I’m an avid player myself and love this game.

All poker players are welcome at any skill or experience level. If you are interested in taking part, here is the link: https://www.psychdata.com/s.asp?SID=133190 It takes about 20 minutes or so to complete the online survey. This study is completely anonymous.

Please feel free to share the link with any of your poker buddies!

Take care and hope you’ll take part!

Melinda

pics pls

On February 04 2010 21:04 whamm! wrote: pics pls

lol i bet if OP posted her pic everyone would be more willing to participate in the study.

went through the questions and it seems pretty legitimate and well put together. no secret aim security questions stuck in anywhere or anything like that

On February 04 2010 21:09 PoorUser wrote: went through the questions and it seems pretty legitimate and well put together. no secret aim security questions stuck in anywhere or anything like that

Thanks for taking the time and having a look at it

On February 04 2010 21:04 Silver)Z( wrote:

Lol yes it does

On February 04 2010 21:09 PoorUser wrote: went through the questions and it seems pretty legitimate and well put together. no secret aim security questions stuck in anywhere or anything like that

very smart to bait op into posting pics lol

how did you find LP, if i may ask?

edit: also are the "processing" times purposefully long in order to determine patience?

On February 04 2010 21:44 Etherone wrote: how did you find LP, if i may ask? edit: also are the "processing" times purposefully long in order to determine patience?

Hi, I just found through a google search. The processing time shouldn't be long Sorry about that. It must be the site, it's usually pretty decent and quick. Thanks for taking the time to fill it out BTW

Wouldn't any biased sample group make any conclusions worthless? Even with respect to just decision making, the data you are getting is from a non-random sample.

yea a lot of these questions i'm just trying to think of what is most +EV

a lot of the people here are poker professionals so they won't be answering the way a normal random player would.. also a lot of questions that are pretty useless where its like would you take $20 on the dice hitting 1-5 or $100 on the dice hitting 6 exactly.. where i am like i don't care whatever nets me the most profit

or like question is would you rather lose $500 for sure or 50% chance of losing $1000
where i will probably answer 50% chance of losing $1000 but i believe my motives are probably different for that answer than other peoples would be, cuz i get annoyed if i lose money, but the difference between 500 and 1000 doesn't matter to me, but being even does lol

I'm sure shes aware that this is a different sample set. Thats why she asked here. I imagine she is going to compare groups.

Edit: started taking this but its way too long. Sorry.

On February 04 2010 22:08 bigbb33 wrote: Wouldn't any biased sample group make any conclusions worthless? Even with respect to just decision making, the data you are getting is from a non-random sample.

Thanks for your comment! Well, the population I'm studying is poker players, so posting on forums is the best way to access this population. Online studies are actually more generalizable because my sample can be from all around the world. I'm not just limited to my local area.

On February 04 2010 22:19 MezmerizePLZ wrote: or like question is would you rather lose $500 for sure or 50% chance of losing $1000 where i will probably answer 50% chance of losing $1000 but i believe my motives are probably different for that answer than other peoples would be, cuz i get annoyed if i lose money, but the difference between 500 and 1000 doesn't matter to me, but being even does lol

All great points, I will definitely be looking at experience in how individuals answer these questions

edited: says at the end dont share questions from it

On February 04 2010 22:36 Ket wrote: 4. In a game of chance, which option would you choose? OPTION A: A 50% chance to win a three-week tour of England, France, and Italy OPTION B: A one-week tour of England, with certainty option c, oh god neither plz?

lol that was my exact thoughts during that question aswell

On February 04 2010 22:29 UOPokerStudy wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 22:08 bigbb33 wrote: Wouldn't any biased sample group make any conclusions worthless? Even with respect to just decision making, the data you are getting is from a non-random sample. Thanks for your comment! Well, the population I'm studying is poker players, so posting on forums is the best way to access this population. Online studies are actually more generalizable because my sample can be from all around the world. I'm not just limited to my local area.

Right, but the poker players you are getting are not going to be representative of "poker players" as a whole, but rather those who wanted to take an online survey, and thus you can't generalize whatever results you get to "poker players as a whole" or "poker players" or "poker players in general".

On February 04 2010 21:53 UOPokerStudy wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 21:44 Etherone wrote: how did you find LP, if i may ask? edit: also are the "processing" times purposefully long in order to determine patience? Hi, I just found through a google search. The processing time shouldn't be long Sorry about that. It must be the site, it's usually pretty decent and quick. Thanks for taking the time to fill it out BTW

Looks like Naz's strategy of taking LP bandwidth money and throwing it at SEO's is finally paying off

personally i didn't like the poker questions, i don't think theres a good answer unless i know how the players are playing, gameflow etc, which is very difficult to do, so my answers had to be super standard and probably bad

MINDY MORGAN SISTER OF DEXTER MORGAN

taking the quiz, processing times are really slow, some questions were redundant but maybe that is to more heavily weight them

cute though, not done yet

On February 04 2010 22:20 Maynard! wrote: I'm sure shes aware that this is a different sample set. Thats why she asked here. I imagine she is going to compare groups. Edit: started taking this but its way too long. Sorry.

Yes, I'm definitely aware that those on forums are typically more experienced than the average player. Being on forums alone implies that one is learning and analyzing strategy, or is at least interested in taking their game to a different level.

"3. In a game of chance, which option would you choose?

OPTION A: A 25% chance of losing $6,000

OPTION B: A 25% of losing $4,000 and a 25% chance of losing $2,000"

Wtf, isn't option B superior? Or is the EV same and the point is, 50% of the time you're going to be losing some sum of money? Didn't fully understand the wording of the question.

UOPokerStudy - interestingly enough, a lot of the posters who have already written saying they took your quiz are the top tier of poker players that post on this site, heh.

(locoo, ket, pooruser, maynard, exhilarate, mesmerize etc. are all really good)

there's no money involved here?

i didn't mind the poker questions but they were certainly hard to visualize, but at least the wording was understandable (the picture + the display of the blind amounts etc)

On February 04 2010 22:51 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 22:29 UOPokerStudy wrote:   On February 04 2010 22:08 bigbb33 wrote: Wouldn't any biased sample group make any conclusions worthless? Even with respect to just decision making, the data you are getting is from a non-random sample. Thanks for your comment! Well, the population I'm studying is poker players, so posting on forums is the best way to access this population. Online studies are actually more generalizable because my sample can be from all around the world. I'm not just limited to my local area. Right, but the poker players you are getting are not going to be representative of "poker players" as a whole, but rather those who wanted to take an online survey, and thus you can't generalize whatever results you get to "poker players as a whole" or "poker players" or "poker players in general".

True, I am getting only people that will take the time for a survey, but then aren't all studies based on individuals that take the time to participate (with the exeption of those getting paid to take part in studies)? Nothing will ever be totally generalizable to all players, it's a sample from a larger population, but I think it's a good first try.

Can you list the books you have read on this subject? There should be some good ones on investing. Also, it may or may not be cool to know my own results so perhaps creating one that lets you go anonymous or just submit a name or sth so you could tell me my results -.- Maybe too much work for you but definitely interesting for me / us.

I just finished going to school at this University. If anyone has concerns about the credentials of the study you can always check the University of Ottawa main website and you'll probably find the PHD supervisor listed in the faculty along with contact information.

This question in particular:

1. In a roll of a single die, which option would you choose?

OPTION A: A $30 payoff if the die lands on 6

OPTION B: A $5 payoff if the die lands on 1 through 5

I'm trying to answer this question and I don't know what I'm wagering or risking in order to gain so it's a meaningless question to me. If the potential reward is not contextualized with what you are risking to obtain it then its a completely meaningless question and the answer is I don't care which.

mindy ur pics arent showing up.

I think I aced it!!

On February 04 2010 22:54 locoo wrote: personally i didn't like the poker questions, i don't think theres a good answer unless i know how the players are playing, gameflow etc, which is very difficult to do, so my answers had to be super standard and probably bad

this.

On February 05 2010 01:39 byrnesam wrote: mindy ur pics arent showing up.

and this.

do you have a hypothesis that poker players will be less influenced by the mood-induced story you had? i thought it was somewhat blatant what the purpose was, and kind of reminded me "hmm what did I just answer" even tough I felt a bit in a better mood =P

i think you could have worked a bit more on the poker questions, i.e. doing it more like the donkey test which includes some player characteristics as well, which is kind of important in poker decision-making.

On February 05 2010 01:02 Bejamin1 wrote: This question in particular: 1. In a roll of a single die, which option would you choose? OPTION A: A $30 payoff if the die lands on 6 OPTION B: A $5 payoff if the die lands on 1 through 5 I'm trying to answer this question and I don't know what I'm wagering or risking in order to gain so it's a meaningless question to me. If the potential reward is not contextualized with what you are risking to obtain it then its a completely meaningless question and the answer is I don't care which.

you're risking the opportunity of having chosen the other option. the context is you are giving up the potential reward of the opposite option.
the answer is obviously you don't care which unless you have a vested interest in answering the questions honestly, in which case you shouldn't care to the point of not taking the test in the first place.

edit: yes the poker questions with no history at all kind of bothered me since in all levels of poker the single most important thing is having an idea of why you're opponent is doing what he is doing.

all those answers are completely different if i assume a different type of player then the one i did.
and for reference i used the anonymous/no history player for all of them, so i may come off as a bit of a nit. lol

Is this you



?

its definitely you

done, interesting study but yeah the choice questions i'm just trying to maximize my EV, and the poker questions' answers should all be "it depends on so many factors"

just as any other study there are about 7 questions that are given in 3 various ways but basically mean the same
so just to make it more fun i gave 3 diff answers every time hf


btw im pretty sure your studies will be wrong as i dont think you have the basic understandings of this game

What pissed me off is that we are some donk who sits in with 60bbs and open limps the button ahrgghhhh

I filled it in entirely.
Would very much like it if you post the results of your research in this forum when you are done.

On February 05 2010 05:51 gororokgororok wrote: I filled it in entirely. Would very much like it if you post the results of your research in this forum when you are done.

Done

On February 05 2010 04:13 EvilSky wrote: What pissed me off is that we are some donk who sits in with 60bbs and open limps the button ahrgghhhh

rofl

On February 05 2010 05:51 gororokgororok wrote: I filled it in entirely. Would very much like it if you post the results of your research in this forum when you are done.

On February 05 2010 04:13 EvilSky wrote: What pissed me off is that we are some donk who sits in with 60bbs and open limps the button ahrgghhhh

exactly

I shipped the tens in because we were 70bb's deep . Is that bad?

Anyway, I finished it. I also just calculated the most EV in some points but when the money got bigger I leaned more towards taking the sure money. Like with the $3000 and the 80% $4000. I'm pretty sure I would still gambool but the money starts getting significant so I'd be glad with a sure $3000 as well. Even if it's the -EV option.

Those questions about if you would take the sure money is definitely what the 'sure' money means to you though. Like with the dice toss ($5 if you hit 1-5, $30 if you hit 6) every decent pokerplaying long-term winner would take the 6 no doubt. While some single mom on well-fare who can use $5 to buy food for 2 days would probably take the $5. If I had to choose between 600K$ for sure or 75% to win 1000K$ I'd probably pick the 600K$.

On February 05 2010 05:51 gororokgororok wrote: I filled it in entirely. Would very much like it if you post the results of your research and your tits in this forum when you are done.

Twisted sick nit !

On February 04 2010 22:08 bigbb33 wrote: Wouldn't any biased sample group make any conclusions worthless? Even with respect to just decision making, the data you are getting is from a non-random sample.

sample is sample is sample

On February 04 2010 21:00 UOPokerStudy wrote: Hi everyone, my name is Mindy Morgan. ... ... ... Melinda

ummmmmmmmm

done

On February 05 2010 11:58 Night[Mare] wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 21:00 UOPokerStudy wrote: Hi everyone, my name is Mindy Morgan. ... ... ... Melinda ummmmmmmmm

maybe they call her mindy

It's funny how my poker side came through on some questions, and my life nit investor side came through on others. When it came to the guaranteed money, I almost always took that.

On February 06 2010 18:01 superfashion wrote: It's funny how my poker side came through on some questions, and my life nit investor side came through on others. When it came to the guaranteed money, I almost always took that.

i go for the most EV always
dont understand why you guys would not

On February 04 2010 23:00 exalted wrote: "3. In a game of chance, which option would you choose? OPTION A: A 25% chance of losing $6,000 OPTION B: A 25% of losing $4,000 and a 25% chance of losing $2,000" Wtf, isn't option B superior? Or is the EV same and the point is, 50% of the time you're going to be losing some sum of money? Didn't fully understand the wording of the question.

Ev is the same
option A, you loose 6000$ 25% of the time
Option B
You loose 6000$ 6.3% of the time
18.7% of the time you loose 4000$
18.7% of the time you loose 2000$

so if you do 18.7*4000, 18.7*2000, 6000*6.3, it gives 150K, and 6000*25 also gives 150K.
Option B, you loose much more often, but you loose less

On February 06 2010 18:08 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 06 2010 18:01 superfashion wrote: It's funny how my poker side came through on some questions, and my life nit investor side came through on others. When it came to the guaranteed money, I almost always took that. i go for the most EV always dont understand why you guys would not

Its based on the same principle as bankroll management
would you rather have 100% chance to win 5 million or 1% chance to win 501 million? i think its obvious....

People saying "i dont care" are dumb.

All decisions are supposed to be aimed at EV+ with a personally determined threshold of risk.

Expectation of 1-5 is $4 and the expectation of 6 is $5. Of course the significance of money matters as stated in my earlier post.

Those questions about if you would take the sure money is definitely what the 'sure' money means to you though. Like with the dice toss ($5 if you hit 1-5, $30 if you hit 6) every decent pokerplaying long-term winner would take the 6 no doubt. While some single mom on well-fare who can use $5 to buy food for 2 days would probably take the $5. If I had to choose between 600K$ for sure or 75% to win 1000K$ I'd probably pick the 600K$.

i tried but too many questions, gave up after 3 pages of questions

On February 06 2010 19:35 Floofy wrote: Show nested quote + On February 06 2010 18:08 player999 wrote:   On February 06 2010 18:01 superfashion wrote: It's funny how my poker side came through on some questions, and my life nit investor side came through on others. When it came to the guaranteed money, I almost always took that. i go for the most EV always dont understand why you guys would not Its based on the same principle as bankroll management would you rather have 100% chance to win 5 million or 1% chance to win 501 million? i think its obvious....

The questions don't have absurd amounts like that

I think twisted /ends thread.

I've been participating in a similar study for some people at my college at uni, and it's the same thing. We will take the +EV every time, but not if the money involved is larger than a certain threshold. I'm sure even the most dedicated +EV+EVGOGOGO people are taking $5mil with 100% certainty over $10.1mil 50% shot; especially if you only get to play the scenario once (as implied in these questions). So it's not so simple as shipping the +EV option, but then the choice comes down to a personal threshold which I don't think the OP is concerned with, but is going to get results based around.

Edit: oops didn't read the above 5mil 501mil eg. But player, there are questions like the holiday one where the values concerned might be above some people's limits. I'm not sure though, didn't take this survey.

i think the "save lives" question was really interesting tho.

Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV.

I liked the questions where it deals with human lives, not just money.
+EV choices had more risk as to -EV choices. Heartless!

On February 06 2010 21:46 phexac wrote: Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV.

but its a 'girl' asking. if you do what she wants and be polite maybe she will fly out and have sex with you!

god im reading her posts and its like im reading powepoint presentation from subject from my uni ;o

On February 06 2010 21:46 phexac wrote: Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV.

Imagine being helpful to someone you don't know oh nooo how much precious time will be lost for your own selfish reasons.

Douche.

On February 07 2010 06:14 Twisted wrote: Show nested quote + On February 06 2010 21:46 phexac wrote: Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV. Imagine being helpful to someone you don't know

without any reason it's called stupid, with reason of being polite it's called manipulating yourself, with reason of being curious its called boredom or personal interests, with reason of getting something from it(personal interests included), it's called being reasonable and truthful to yourself

i cant see anything wrong with someone not wanting to do it cause it doesnt intrest him, i see however in trying to force or judge him for doing so ( also he could not be 100% serious about it, so....why so serious, son? :D )

On February 07 2010 06:14 Twisted wrote: Show nested quote + On February 06 2010 21:46 phexac wrote: Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV. Imagine being helpful to someone you don't know oh nooo how much precious time will be lost for your own selfish reasons. Douche.

Why is he a douche? he just raised a bunch of points that are all valid

What happens now then, is Twisted a douche for calling him a douche?

Hope I'm not a douche for asking if Twisted's a douche for calling Phexac a douche


Weeee, I'm tired xD

wat?

Oh, I'm not suppose to say that.

On February 04 2010 22:36 Ket wrote: edited: says at the end dont share questions from it

I chose definitely A just to have outs :/

On February 07 2010 08:21 Mariuslol wrote: What happens now then, is Twisted a douche for calling him a douche? Hope I'm not a douche for asking if Twisted's a douche for calling Phexac a douche Weeee, I'm tired xD

why anyone has to be a douche?

On February 07 2010 06:14 Twisted wrote: Show nested quote + On February 06 2010 21:46 phexac wrote: Stars usually gives VPPs for filling out short surveys. Filling out long surveys about how I think for free seems -EV. Imagine being helpful to someone you don't know oh nooo how much precious time will be lost for your own selfish reasons. Douche.

+1

pics or it didn't happen

Yes every decision we make in life, helping others or not, should be based on EV-calculations.

What the hell.. im surprised what kind of mentality many of you guys have... have you lost all your decency.

Wait a minute, so do you stop and talk to people on the street who ask you if you are happy with your current phone service every time? And you dont blow off people calling from the bank to make a survey even if you have nothing better to do than clip your nails? We are not talking about curing aids ffs, its just a survey some unknown person posted, why is someone an asshole for not bothering to do it ?

not doing it is ok evilsky... saying you wont do it because you get nothing from it is the problem

It's not 'not' doing it. It's coming in this topic basically saying that we're morons for doing this survey because we're not getting anything from it. If you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't come in the topic being a douche comparing a simple survey from a single person to a survey from a billion dollar company who can actually give you stuff.

Or yeah, what Engage said.

you are misinterpreting what he said

he said it's -ev for him. - end of story

and yeah everyone who does this survey 'gets something from it', otherwise noone would do it



and so that it would be clear, i will do this survey too but when i will have more time

On February 07 2010 17:41 Twisted wrote: It's not 'not' doing it. It's coming in this topic basically saying that we're morons for doing this survey because we're not getting anything from it. If you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't come in the topic being a douche comparing a simple survey from a single person to a survey from a billion dollar company who can actually give you stuff.

Never called anyone morons.

But filling out long surveys for free is one of my least favorite things to do. In the future I will work on being a better human being.

Pooruser said he did it. Pooruser is ten timessmarter than me. So I did the survey as well.

I have major depression for past 12 years, every day I wake up I ask myself should I blast myself.
My negative mood doesn't make me a degenerate gambler who can't play within my bankroll. To succeed at poker I believe you have to look into the future and see what happens aka strategy. Ain't have anything to do with hope delusion or faith which has everything to do with playing outside your bankroll.

If u look at everything as +ev -ev. Kill yourself. I assure you life is -ev.
LOL

On February 08 2010 01:30 woodbrave1 wrote: If u look at everything as +ev -ev. Kill yourself.

wat?

i think he's trying to say that everything that lives dies

ps go fill out the survey. they're nice people doing solid work and if time spent helping solid people do good work is a waste of your time i feel sorry for you.

On February 08 2010 03:25 sawseech wrote: i think he's trying to say that everything that lives dies

therefore we should never think about the outcomes of our decisions?

seems logical

p.s. questionnaires are rarely worth it, they never really prove anything.

i think it's more a fatalist reflection on the apathetic/paranoid response exhibited by some posters in this thread.

On February 07 2010 20:23 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On February 07 2010 17:41 Twisted wrote: It's not 'not' doing it. It's coming in this topic basically saying that we're morons for doing this survey because we're not getting anything from it. If you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't come in the topic being a douche comparing a simple survey from a single person to a survey from a billion dollar company who can actually give you stuff. Never called anyone morons. But filling out long surveys for free is one of my least favorite things to do. In the future I will work on being a better human being.

Dude like I said I don't care about you not doing the survey but I thought your first reply in the topic was totally unnecessary. Sorry for coming off like a prick though, my post was more harsh than I meant.

so did i play the hands correctly ?

On February 08 2010 06:53 Twisted wrote: Show nested quote + On February 07 2010 20:23 phexac wrote:   On February 07 2010 17:41 Twisted wrote: It's not 'not' doing it. It's coming in this topic basically saying that we're morons for doing this survey because we're not getting anything from it. If you don't want to do it, just don't do it. Don't come in the topic being a douche comparing a simple survey from a single person to a survey from a billion dollar company who can actually give you stuff. Never called anyone morons. But filling out long surveys for free is one of my least favorite things to do. In the future I will work on being a better human being. Dude like I said I don't care about you not doing the survey but I thought your first reply in the topic was totally unnecessary. Sorry for coming off like a prick though, my post was more harsh than I meant.

I can see how my first reply in this thread can be interpreted as an ass response. It was just something posted randomly without much thought to it, which is likely the issue...

On February 08 2010 02:16 byrnesam wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 01:30 woodbrave1 wrote: If u look at everything as +ev -ev. Kill yourself. wat?

well take cross country for example.
U run for hours, minutes seem like hours. The benefits are great, but the pain is greater. This is the way of everything in life, including hunger, breathing, and sex.
U don't notice but semen builds in your balls and hunger grows, these pressures usually escape your consciousness until the pressure/pain reaches a point worthy of your conscious but the release is just a moment and small pressure building was over days or hours, the -ev is total to more than the +ev. And breathing, everyone knows that you purposely hold ur breath the pain like increases dramatically and when u breath again it's only the release of the pain. Not +ev, -ev. Everything is more - than + as far as feelings are concerned except for games but it doesn't consider the psychological pressures that exist within a mind that get released by winning/playing a game. In the end it shud end up -ev.

Bwahahaha

The life of a deer or antelope or the bear or lion. I wonder if anyone would be willing to argue their lives as +ev.

On February 08 2010 10:16 woodbrave1 wrote: The life of a deer or antelope or the bear or lion. I wonder if anyone would be willing to argue their lives as +ev.

Well definitely +EV compared to being dead since you can't make or use money when you're no longer alive.

On February 08 2010 17:58 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 10:16 woodbrave1 wrote: The life of a deer or antelope or the bear or lion. I wonder if anyone would be willing to argue their lives as +ev. Well definitely +EV compared to being dead since you can't make or use money when you're no longer alive.

you tilt me phexac...

deer antelope bears lions don't make or use money
bears aren't brave, they kill deers like a bully but they get to the edge of a cliff and their tune changes and fear controls them.

On February 08 2010 23:08 woodbrave1 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 08 2010 17:58 phexac wrote:   On February 08 2010 10:16 woodbrave1 wrote: The life of a deer or antelope or the bear or lion. I wonder if anyone would be willing to argue their lives as +ev. Well definitely +EV compared to being dead since you can't make or use money when you're no longer alive. you tilt me phexac... deer antelope bears lions don't make or use money bears aren't brave, they kill deers like a bully but they get to the edge of a cliff and their tune changes and fear controls them.

On February 08 2010 10:16 woodbrave1 wrote: The life of a deer or antelope or the bear or lion. I wonder if anyone would be willing to argue their lives as +ev.

well, from an evolutionary standpoint they all work.