Robbed by friend. WTF

WTF x1000

this is x100000 more shocking than the logiabs scandal

especially this part

On May 18 2009 17:06 Ket wrote: I gave that boy a lot of guidance and he was pretty smart and fun to talk to. I felt we had a good degree of mutual respect for each other, I thought he seemed to have good character, integrity and valued his reputation. Then about 6 weeks ago he stole $20k from me and disappeared

i'm probably NEVER going to look for a stake or look to stake ANYONE.

EVER

it's getting unthinkable now to burden people with such risk, no matter how "close" you've gotten online.

Uh this is so weird.

I met him in Copenhagen and he was a really stand-up guy. He also mentioned what he earned monthly and 20k should be nothing to him.

Sigh. I don't think I'll ever trust anyone with $20k, things like this happen way too often. I hope this is all just a misunderstanding and he has some excuse and pays it back, but considering it's been a month and a half since he was last seen it seems somewhat unlikely. People are fags.

Maybe he got kidnapped again.

On a serious note...Really messed up =

On May 18 2009 17:13 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Sigh. I don't think I'll ever trust anyone with $20k, things like this happen way too often. I hope this is all just a misunderstanding and he has some excuse and pays it back, but considering it's been a month and a half since he was last seen it seems somewhat unlikely. People are fags.

damn lol, i'd trust you with 20k

That's fucked up. Sorry to hear that happened .

hire some polish thugs to kidnap him imo

I also met simon at ept copenhagen, talked with him over msn etc and I find it hard to believe that he would do something like this. On the other hand its really, really hard to think of any other reasonable explenation to this other than that he scammed you. I definitely dont think this was a long con though. If anything he probably went on tilt/degened it up with your money and then felt so ashamed and embaressed that he cut all contact. Obv that doesnt excuse anything and its pretty disgusting and shocking to hear about this.

I guess the lesson is to not trust someone with money unless they are either is rich enough or has alot to loose from a bad rep.

So sick though, I still hope Simon will come forward with an explanation and repayment. As you said, better late than never.

On May 18 2009 17:19 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2009 17:13 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Sigh. I don't think I'll ever trust anyone with $20k, things like this happen way too often. I hope this is all just a misunderstanding and he has some excuse and pays it back, but considering it's been a month and a half since he was last seen it seems somewhat unlikely. People are fags. damn lol, i'd trust you with 20k

Okok, I'd trust you with 20k too if you really needed it, but I feel like when someone already has enough money of their own, and there's not a good excuse for them to want to borrow $20k, it's a little fishy. Like, I'd trust someone with it if I'm close enough to them and it's an absolute necessity or they'll die without it or something, but if they don't need it the odds that their motivation to "borrow" $20k is theft rises dramatically I feel.

what the fuck. What he did certainly seems moronic in all aspects.
I doubt you are a poor judge of character so my guess is he's a real chameleon or he has a really unstable personality.
You losing 20k isn't that big of a deal, he is the one that clearly made a -EV move. Probably best to consider this an expensive way to know you shouldn't waste your time with him in the future I guess
Of course making his life miserable could help ease the pain from the backstab ...
=[

wow this is really shocking... id really like to know what happened there.
Its just too sick... what can he plan to do? Never EVER meet anybody close to LP in his life again? I mean there must be anybody that knows him from LP in his neighbour...so what can he do to hide himself? Never ever walk into cardroom? This is just absurd...

wow that is so fucked up man, there are people I know who I would trust with a ton of shit and I would be completely mind fucked if one of them screwed me like this.

that is brutal ket

really sorry to hear, idk Id probably agree with saki and assume that he degened it up and had no real way to pay it back or didnt want to, real shitty

can relate, it sucks

hopefully he got kidnapped again -_-

that sucks ket

but this really seems like one of those "people are great until money is involved" its very easy to be honest when rich, the true test is to be honest when in the dirt and that is where most people tend to mess up, i hope he has an explanation and plans to pay u back someday

gl

Ugh, this is really shitty and happens way too much in this community where everything is based on pure reputation.

We don´t have legal contracts and stuff like that as most people in other communities, all we have is our word and reputation and we´ll just have to trust people on things. Sucks that there will always be people that have the will to hurt people and take advantage of things like this.

I don't see why people loan even friends more than a couple thousand...

Sucks though -_-; hopefully you get it back in time. . .

On May 18 2009 17:54 CamilaPunt wrote: that sucks ket but this really seems like one of those "people are great until money is involved" its very easy to be honest when rich, the true test is to be honest when in the dirt and that is where most people tend to mess up, i hope he has an explanation and plans to pay u back someday gl

I find it honestly really sick to even think about doing it, then again doing it just makes no sense at all to me, I mean even back then when I was broke, even if I'd go broke now I wouldn't ever come close to thinking about stealing someone's money, I guess I value friendship far more than money

Would he really risk his reputation and cut contact with tons of people for money that is apprently not a lot to him? Maybe there is another explanation?

I'm utterly shocked. I remember sOah's repuation, and he was solid. You have to go for option 2 as a matter of principle. However, I have some naive belief that one always has to expect the best of everyone until proved otherwise, even though experience and statistics may show that to be entirely illogical; but don't lose the faith.

I'd have him fucking killed

Really sorry to hear about this Ket.

But its a little bit weird. He would make a deal agreeing to pay you 20% interest in a month instead of taking a currency risk, exchanging his DKK for USD. Just using the DKK would be so much smarter...

wtf, that sucks

but Midian is right, people are fags. I've been backstabbed in 2009 too by someone I absolutely never thought had it in him to do it.

sOah seemed like a stand up guy, but imo (and im not just saying this cause of this blog post) from talking to him a little now and then on msn my instincts told me there was something wrong with him. could never put my finger on it but i just knew all wasn't what it seemed to be with him.

degen screwup/blowup imo ---> unable to tell you about it cause of shame ---> run

Sorry Ket,

the whole kidnap fiacso seemed pretty thin to me too. I'm sure he was trying to scam people then.

On May 18 2009 18:32 sniderstyle wrote: Sorry Ket, the whole kidnap fiacso seemed pretty thin to me too. I'm sure he was trying to scam people then.

omg no... thats not true i think.
It was all official... police and stuff... he wasnt pretending it omg

That sucks, but don't lose faith in people just yet. after all its just money : )

It's like 2 poker players I know in total I'd trust with that kind of money, heh.

Really weird, didn't care much for him but I wouldn't have guessed this in a million years :/

t.t

heard of this already so not much to comment now but =[

You really certain about the kidnapping thing that was resolved? Was there really any conclusive proof of it? Seems really unlikely to be true now that the guy's real character is exposed: maybe he thought he could milk you for more?

it sucks how strong some relationships can appear to be and know that some people are still capable of shit like this
hope you hit some runner runner and he has a legit explanation and the money waiting for you

man, thats really shitty to hear.

I hope you can cope with this 20k loss well and get your money back soon ket, nobody deserves this to happen to them, especially you bro

GL and i hope u get ur money back from him

pC

On May 18 2009 18:42 bigbb33 wrote: You really certain about the kidnapping thing that was resolved? Was there really any conclusive proof of it? Seems really unlikely to be true now that the guy's real character is exposed: maybe he thought he could milk you for more?

you can be 99% sure this truely happened, police and family/friends were involved with serious research and such. not to mention the stories checked out.

On May 18 2009 18:49 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2009 18:42 bigbb33 wrote: You really certain about the kidnapping thing that was resolved? Was there really any conclusive proof of it? Seems really unlikely to be true now that the guy's real character is exposed: maybe he thought he could milk you for more? you can be 99% sure this truely happened, police and family/friends were involved with serious research and such. not to mention the stories checked out.

So you had copies of police reports etc? Not just second-hand info, all of which came thru sOah?

shitty thing to happen to you Ket, hopefully karma will come back around and you and your monies will run really good this summer.

the kidnapping thing must've been 100% legit - not only was it in polish newspapers but even on the official website of polish police. on the side note i saw the kidnapper on some pictures from a live donkament in poland like a month or two ago. wtf???

bleh so sick, especially considering it's him again - too be honest i thought it was a joke or sth when i saw the topic and than just skimmed through and saw "soah" in the middle of the blog post.

on a side note - did u try calling his parents? i think that someone did it when the kidnapping thing happened before we knew what was going on

On May 18 2009 18:28 Zanjong wrote: But its a little bit weird. He would make a deal agreeing to pay you 20% interest in a month instead of taking a currency risk, exchanging his DKK for USD. Just using the DKK would be so much smarter...

def shady wtf

wow that sucks man, hope you get it resolved

bad beat, im american so obv im terrible at geography and 2 lazy to look at a map, but if u can drive a car from your house to his, u should drive over there and run him over.

ppl are weird when i comes to money, someone who i went to school with and now play poker with a couple times every week needed a stake once. I staked him for $1k, which was 1/5 of my roll at the time, he ran like shit and lost it. When i checked his transfer history he had withdrawn the last $250 x.x
losing 20k is obviously worse, but the principle of receiving a favour and then backstabbing seems to be a recurring theme when it comes to money.

Is the is the same Soah that is a mod at 2+2? Because someone should crosspost if it is.

I really don't understand these people.... wow

I owe someone significant money for the first time in my life and I'll be damned if I don't pay it back one way or another.

WTF PEOPLE IMO.

Call his parents and let them know their son is a scumbag, and to just leave him to the kidnappers next time. Seriously though, let them know. Maybe he'll get kicked out and have to grow up? Or maybe since he's still at home his parents will boot stomp him into paying you back or something.

can some1 share what this kidnap thing was about? cant find anything thru the search function

i dont know him at all but from reading this i doubt it was a long time con (he would have got staked by more pple who knew him on lp b4 disappearing? so he at least was half serious about the stake) but more of a very very unfortunate series of events that led to/changed a otherwise decent guy into this.

ie kidnap?! -> no cash irl -> desperate -> tries to make money to get it back -> downswing -> tilt -> spew -> bye

I've already been in email contact with his father and eventually ended up explaining the full story to him and even sending msn logs. He's been nice to me and sympathetic but from as far as i can see seems to have not done a whole lot to help make right the situation

sad that someone you knew relatively well cut and run on you, id seek revenge by getting personal details and sending letters around his home town and specifically to his parents letting them know what hes done, put the boy to shame.

you may be jumping to conclusion though, he may be being held captive by some mexican kidnappers tbf and as such is unavilable to talk on msn or get to his phone.

since u and him were tight u shld never have let him offer u that free money 4k extra deal and just given him the loan free as a favour - which is what u intially wanted to do. 4k in a month sounds like alot of added pressure and like some1 pointed out the currceny thing would have been 10 billion times cheaper, interest didnt make sense!

getting owned after you help someone really sucks and i hope u get ur money back

On May 18 2009 19:08 Ket wrote: I've already been in email contact with his father and eventually ended up explaining the full story to him and even sending msn logs. He's been nice to me and sympathetic but from as far as i can see seems to have not done a whole lot to help make right the situation

So you dont think his parents will cover your loss? I guess they are rich since everybody says 20k isnt a lot for soah.

This is why I try REALLY hard to avoid giving anyone money, especially friends. I've actually never loaned anyone money that I wouldn't be ok with losing. I usually won't even loan someone money, if a friend needs money and I feel they deserve it, I tend to just give it to them with no repayment plan in place and they can repay if they feel like it or help me out in other ways in the future. I just hate being owed money. I never trust that people will pay it back.

Sorry to hear that this happened to you. It really has to be shitty on so many different levels.

damn this is sad to hear. it's like soah was kind of hated, but then he totally redeemed himself and made everyone feel guilty, now everyone's confused what to think of him...the guy knows METAGAME obv

Thats really fucked up from his side. It's really sad that someone would place money ahead of a friend. Really hope the situation gets resolved for you Ket.

Sad news
hope you find out whats going on
cant trust many people with that large amount of money

Heh if i would have to place a bet on who would be the last person on earth to be scammed, id probably name you Ket ... But it looks like you value friendship and once your guard was down you didnt see the hit coming. But seriously dont let him go away with it that easily.

Sick to hear this.. but well .. this is Poker and its about $$$ so there are such cases and will ever be :/ ul it hits you, i hope you clear this up soon!

fuck that sucks so much, sorry =[

33 days, 18 hours, 31 minutes, and 11 seconds until the next season of Top Gear starts on June 21st


this might help bring your spirits up.

probably what saki said. guy probably lost/tilted away and decided to screw you big time.

fucking pathetic.

hope you get your money back, one way or another.

i cant seem to find a forum he mods but wasn't he an orange super-mod on 2p2? dramabomb it there maybe? he may have been de-modded though because i can't find him anywhere

Are you sure that was the same guy BJ? I know who you're talking about but always thought it was a diff;. person, if it is indeed him i agree drama bomb 2p2.

imo he wanted to scam you from the begining...thats why he offered you such big interest, he knew u are goin to take easier such a good loan and he never wanted to repay it.
maybe that mofo is on drugs or in some serious gambling debts or other shit. you wont see your money i guess. let that bastard beat up from some tough guys.

This seriously put in question about the kidnapping stuff, regardless of his father involvment, the way that story developed was so insanely bizarre, many (me and ket included) called insta "lol bullshit" on that one, however it kind of turned out true but given that the bastard ran with 20 thousand his credibility is 0 and not doubting such a kidnap story would be very very naive, it did reach the press etc, so that obv happened but the circumstances as like a voluntary kidnapping etc are still in question and in my opinion extremely likely.

This makes me wonder if Ket would now trust me with like 20 k mmm

that sucks
hopefully you'll be able to get it back

This is seriously so bad. How could he just up and leave. I feel for you man. Things happen for a reason though. Keep on truckin is what I say. You tried to help someone out...you'll be rewarded in other ways don't think too much about it. GL in the future...

Im pretty sure the soah on 2p2 is different... i could be wrong though

Sorry man. You always seemed like a cool trusting guy.

meh I would like to think that he wasn't planning a scam from the beginning b/c im a pretty glass is half full kind of guy. He probably just went on a downswing tilted and lost then freaked out b/c he was broke and couldn't think what else to do. However teh way he's handling this is terrible, he should be honest with you and try to figure out how he's gonna repay you. But who knows there's lots of scumbags out there so maybe he was just really deceitful and planned this from the get go.

sorry to hear ket, but just wanted to post that soah from 2+2 is 100% a different person from kansas/vegas

On May 18 2009 21:32 Baal wrote: This seriously put in question about the kidnapping stuff, regardless of his father involvment, the way that story developed was so insanely bizarre, many (me and ket included) called insta "lol bullshit" on that one, however it kind of turned out true but given that the bastard ran with 20 thousand his credibility is 0 and not doubting such a kidnap story would be very very naive, it did reach the press etc, so that obv happened but the circumstances as like a voluntary kidnapping etc are still in question and in my opinion extremely likely. This makes me wonder if Ket would now trust me with like 20 k mmm

youre full of it now, this story involved many persons, cop interviews, airtravel, news paper interviews and whatnot. it goes way beyond soahs story. its not just some internet fabrication. that story doesn't need soahs credibility and a persons trustworthiness is not dependent on getting kidnapped.

i hope everything goes well and you get your money back
sucks there's people like this
i thought he was a very well known poster. =o

i just lol'd at Ket's blog name

On May 18 2009 17:19 Ket wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2009 17:13 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Sigh. I don't think I'll ever trust anyone with $20k, things like this happen way too often. I hope this is all just a misunderstanding and he has some excuse and pays it back, but considering it's been a month and a half since he was last seen it seems somewhat unlikely. People are fags. damn lol, i'd trust you with 20k

Don't mean to kick you while you're down but maybe you can learn a lesson from this. Be more responsible with your money and you won't find yourself in this situation again.

I did joke to ket how epic it would be if soah was some random busto who pretended to have some rich dad and really was some busto scrub and just intended to scam everyone. He figured he made enough solid contacts to run the kidnapping scam but that didn't work so he made it seem real and bided his time.

A year later he hits ket up for a 20k loan, and boom finally he gets paid and vanishes.


In all seriousness, i have also met simon IRL, and while i wouldn't have lent him 20k myself i wouldn't have thought it too likely that he would ever scam. For those of you who have also met him, does anyone have any actual proof his dad is some rich balla like we were lead to believe or that simon actually made/has money? Seems pretty unlikely hes actually as well off as he let of given he effectivly stole 20k to gamble w/ and lost it. Also wonder had he won with the money was his intentions to pay back, or just a scam from the start.

Pretty shitty thing to happen, i got scammed myself the first time i backed someone and it def has tainted staking for me and there are a bunch of people i haven't loaned moeny/trade/staked because of - there still a are a bunch of people id gladly give money tho so hopefully there are still nice people out there!

On May 18 2009 22:24 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2009 21:32 Baal wrote: This seriously put in question about the kidnapping stuff, regardless of his father involvment, the way that story developed was so insanely bizarre, many (me and ket included) called insta "lol bullshit" on that one, however it kind of turned out true but given that the bastard ran with 20 thousand his credibility is 0 and not doubting such a kidnap story would be very very naive, it did reach the press etc, so that obv happened but the circumstances as like a voluntary kidnapping etc are still in question and in my opinion extremely likely. This makes me wonder if Ket would now trust me with like 20 k mmm youre full of it now, this story involved many persons, cop interviews, airtravel, news paper interviews and whatnot. it goes way beyond soahs story. its not just some internet fabrication. that story doesn't need soahs credibility and a persons trustworthiness is not dependent on getting kidnapped.

Did you even read my post? i said the "kidnapping" did took place since it was covered by some media and there were family involvement, i only talked about the inner working about kidnapping, as you might know, voluntary kidnapping is a very frequent and effective form of extortion for their own family.

yo i played with the dude and he was awful at poker yet had a tremendous ego.

basically anyone with massive undeserving ego is scum.

sorry this happened ketul. i really dont have anything to provide but my condolences. i hardly ever stake anyone cause i'm type paranoid, i think more should follow in this suit.

hope you don't take this the wrong way bud, i'm quite distressed about this, the evil inherent in the world really gets to me somteimes.

i guess people just cant be trusted. :

hopefully karma will get him sometime. Im sorry for you ket, i hope you recover from this loss. I think it's pretty clear you have the full support from the forum

? Without a doubt look into taking legal action.....since you've just been robbed of $24k.

He apparently owed someone some money. I've heard there's been a large increase in the number of normal-pillar-of-the-community-very-credible type of people who have snapped and started robbing banks, etc, because they fell on hard times due to the recent economic downturn. That really, really sucks to hear man. I hope things work out for you. It's nice that you're cool about letting him return it - being understanding and all - but this is some pretty extreme bull-shit. Definitely talk to a laywer and keep us updated for sure.

+1 on hoping he got kidnapped again

always sad when this happens poker is a trust based community so sadly we are almost all exposed to this risk at some point or another no matter how careful you can be. Chances of getting paid back right now are slim, but I have hope that within 5-10 yrs you will be able to recuperate at least some of the money, the persistance you will need to do that is another story...

can anyone link me to this kidnapping story? what happened?

ps: thank you for doing the right thing and coming forward, it takes more courage than it seems from the outside. I know that I should do this myself to 2 people who ran away w my money but i tell myself that they wont be scamming anyone else thus its not worth the hassle.

Actually he used to give pretty solid advice in the forums, I dont know if he was any good actually playing tho. I think like saki its either he just bustoed and has no way of paying or had some unexpected matter that caused him to do this, it sucks and further proves you should not trust anyone for those kind of sums no matter how credible they appear. The good part is I assume 20k isnt life changing for you, still stings tho I guess

Sell the debt to danish bandidos? :o
In all seriousness, cant you give someone in denmark a proxy so that they can represent you and go to a legal office? These things might hold in court, and you'll never know unless you check it out.

he clearly is doing something -EV - he lost them playing or stole them from you.. he could've made way more playing even 100NLH asking you for help with his game

but you can look on the brighter side... if that didn't happen he could've come up with smarter idea and took you more...don't think that this will make you feel better though

i hope you get your money back

such big stakes should be done with contract imo doesnt matter friends or not

Have you got the police involved yet?

im about 95% sure he lost em and is embarassed to tell u that and prefer to go with the " stealer " label instead

A search on PTR could find out if SOAH degenned the money up no? Hope you get your money back man, you're a good guy.

Sincerely,

Death Note avatar companion -_-

On May 19 2009 05:29 Spitfiree wrote: such big stakes should be done with contract imo doesnt matter friends or not

I was about to ask that. I don't know anything about staking. Does this ever go down with a contract?

In Copenhagen Simon said he played like 100k hands per month on 5/10 and made like 50~100k monthly, hence why I said 20k wouldn't be much to him if that were true. His father owns some company and he said they were also planning some poker based thing (not sure what) together. Not sure if his parents are rich.

If they were rich he wouldnt have asked Ket to pay his ransom when he got abducted, and if he used to make 100k/month why would he ask for a stake ? Looks like a fat mytho if you ask me

On May 19 2009 09:19 Twisted wrote: In Copenhagen Simon said he played like 100k hands per month on 5/10 and made like 50~100k monthly, hence why I said 20k wouldn't be much to him if that were true. His father owns some company and he said they were also planning some poker based thing (not sure what) together. Not sure if his parents are rich.

Well, theres a huge diffrence between what some people claim and what is the actual case. I always liked simon but at the same time I knew he was a big talker and that he definitely had some illusions of grandeur so I never took his claims(of both his poker skills and claimed profits) very seriously.

Sucks a lot Ket, especially since you seem to be a positive and trusting guy (in my case, buying a WSOPE ticket from me with like 10 posts) and I can imagine your attitude towards any kind of deal will be affected greatly. Shows again that humans are scumbags by nature unless proven otherwise.

it really sucks!
I would bomb him with messages on msn/mail/phone/sms etc (so he really gets it) and demand him to make contact before a certain day, otherwise you go to the police. And if he doesnt, you make it a legal issue. If you have msn logs and transfer documents I am pretty shure you have enough to go to the court. (especially if you made the terms very clear, like you say you did). Atleast in sweden the claim would go through (and I doubt the rules are that different in denmark).
imo, he doesnt deserve to be treated with silvergloves. If he doesnt want to cooperate and talk about it, why should you just sit and wait at home and hope he does?

ggplz here,

Felt like i should probably throw out a small post regarding this. I lived with Simon and his family in Denmark for 3 months ending around 23rd November. Funnily enough, i actually have the return plane ticket sitting on my desk as i write this. I can assure everyone that based on the emotional reaction of his family and how as a result of the incident, he visited his doctor (psychotherapist or something iirc) weekly to try to help himself recover this certainly happened. After i arrived, Simon had only been at home for about 1-2 months after he was kidknapped and he was extremely scared/untrusting of many people around him. I felt lucky to be one of the people he trusted. Several things happened while i was over there that i dont particularly think are fair to mention but lets just say that the Poland kidknapping was certainly genuine. People posting here suggesting otherwise are beyond clueless.

When you live with someone for 3 months after having only previously talked with them online you learn a lot about them. We frequently (daily?) watched movies and relaxed/talked things over - often poker related. Simon was totally destroying 3/6 NL across multiple sites under complete aliases only a few people are aware of. A lot of people were leaps and bounds behind him at those levels and he just utterly demolished them with a style im sure very few have the balls or intelligence to pull off - nevermind both. He was highly skilled but had extreme losses at 5/10 and couldn't quite push up. People just countered his style/strategy too well for him to move up playing that way. Watching him analyse/shot take i've grown great respect for a lot of 5/10+ regular players as i've seen how they just rape people. He knew it though and tried many many times with no success. Prior to the Poland incident he was placed on medication at some point - something that i never really asked too much about. Basically, if he didnt take his medication daily he would be extremely aggressive and unable to focus. Several times while i was there he forgot to take his medication and tried playing a session at 3/6 HU. Let me tell you, it was not pretty.Imagine a baby having a tantrum while playing 3/6. Of course i stopped him from playing and probably saved him a lot of money in that regard despite his competitive nature urging him to continue.

Now, having witnessed all of this while i was living with him and got a really good feel for the guy i've gotta say that this was really surprising. I've known about it since Ket got worried (around payment date) and i feel so bad for reinforcing Kets trust in Simon. However, i still consider him a friend (more than an internet contact by a long shot) and would like to hear what he has to say about it someday.

I've been pretty quiet on this issue so far but theres so many wrong posts in this thread, lets just say that due to 5/10 shot taking Simon was making nowhere near 50-100k/month and although he definitely had the capability, most of the games he was playing when you all met him were at 1-2 - which was where he originally developed his style.

I dont particularly think its appropriate for his family to share their details with anyone associated with this forum beyond Ket. Neither should any of you. Simon is his own man and although he may still be living with his parents (nobody knows if he is, really), he made a choice that has nothing to do with his family. So just leave them out of it, they're good people.

I have other thoughts but nothing suited for LP.

Ket, i hope you someday get your money back and as you said earlier, its better to pay back eventually than never - something i learned through you some years back for a considerably smaller amount.

On May 19 2009 12:14 concrescence wrote: ggplz here, Felt like i should probably throw out a small post regarding this. I lived with Simon and his family in Denmark for 3 months ending around 23rd November. Funnily enough, i actually have the return plane ticket sitting on my desk as i write this. I can assure everyone that based on the emotional reaction of his family and how as a result of the incident, he visited his doctor (psychotherapist or something iirc) weekly to try to help himself recover this certainly happened. After i arrived, Simon had only been at home for about 1-2 months after he was kidknapped and he was extremely scared/untrusting of many people around him. I felt lucky to be one of the people he trusted. Several things happened while i was over there that i dont particularly think are fair to mention but lets just say that the Poland kidknapping was certainly genuine. People posting here suggesting otherwise are beyond clueless. When you live with someone for 3 months after having only previously talked with them online you learn a lot about them. We frequently (daily?) watched movies and relaxed/talked things over - often poker related. Simon was totally destroying 3/6 NL across multiple sites under complete aliases only a few people are aware of. A lot of people were leaps and bounds behind him at those levels and he just utterly demolished them with a style im sure very few have the balls or intelligence to pull off - nevermind both. He was highly skilled but had extreme losses at 5/10 and couldn't quite push up. People just countered his style/strategy too well for him to move up playing that way. Watching him analyse/shot take i've grown great respect for a lot of 5/10+ regular players as i've seen how they just rape people. He knew it though and tried many many times with no success. Prior to the Poland incident he was placed on medication at some point - something that i never really asked too much about. Basically, if he didnt take his medication daily he would be extremely aggressive and unable to focus. Several times while i was there he forgot to take his medication and tried playing a session at 3/6 HU. Let me tell you, it was not pretty.Imagine a baby having a tantrum while playing 3/6. Of course i stopped him from playing and probably saved him a lot of money in that regard despite his competitive nature urging him to continue. Now, having witnessed all of this while i was living with him and got a really good feel for the guy i've gotta say that this was really surprising. I've known about it since Ket got worried (around payment date) and i feel so bad for reinforcing Kets trust in Simon. However, i still consider him a friend (more than an internet contact by a long shot) and would like to hear what he has to say about it someday. I've been pretty quiet on this issue so far but theres so many wrong posts in this thread, lets just say that due to 5/10 shot taking Simon was making nowhere near 50-100k/month and although he definitely had the capability, most of the games he was playing when you all met him were at 1-2 - which was where he originally developed his style. I dont particularly think its appropriate for his family to share their details with anyone associated with this forum beyond Ket. Neither should any of you. Simon is his own man and although he may still be living with his parents (nobody knows if he is, really), he made a choice that has nothing to do with his family. So just leave them out of it, they're good people. I have other thoughts but nothing suited for LP. Ket, i hope you someday get your money back and as you said earlier, its better to pay back eventually than never - something i learned through you some years back for a considerably smaller amount.

Once you steal 20k from someone the community deserves to know, and once the community knows you no longer have any right to special treatment or respect.

On May 19 2009 12:19 bigbb33 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 19 2009 12:14 concrescence wrote: ggplz here, Felt like i should probably throw out a small post regarding this. I lived with Simon and his family in Denmark for 3 months ending around 23rd November. Funnily enough, i actually have the return plane ticket sitting on my desk as i write this. I can assure everyone that based on the emotional reaction of his family and how as a result of the incident, he visited his doctor (psychotherapist or something iirc) weekly to try to help himself recover this certainly happened. After i arrived, Simon had only been at home for about 1-2 months after he was kidknapped and he was extremely scared/untrusting of many people around him. I felt lucky to be one of the people he trusted. Several things happened while i was over there that i dont particularly think are fair to mention but lets just say that the Poland kidknapping was certainly genuine. People posting here suggesting otherwise are beyond clueless. When you live with someone for 3 months after having only previously talked with them online you learn a lot about them. We frequently (daily?) watched movies and relaxed/talked things over - often poker related. Simon was totally destroying 3/6 NL across multiple sites under complete aliases only a few people are aware of. A lot of people were leaps and bounds behind him at those levels and he just utterly demolished them with a style im sure very few have the balls or intelligence to pull off - nevermind both. He was highly skilled but had extreme losses at 5/10 and couldn't quite push up. People just countered his style/strategy too well for him to move up playing that way. Watching him analyse/shot take i've grown great respect for a lot of 5/10+ regular players as i've seen how they just rape people. He knew it though and tried many many times with no success. Prior to the Poland incident he was placed on medication at some point - something that i never really asked too much about. Basically, if he didnt take his medication daily he would be extremely aggressive and unable to focus. Several times while i was there he forgot to take his medication and tried playing a session at 3/6 HU. Let me tell you, it was not pretty.Imagine a baby having a tantrum while playing 3/6. Of course i stopped him from playing and probably saved him a lot of money in that regard despite his competitive nature urging him to continue. Now, having witnessed all of this while i was living with him and got a really good feel for the guy i've gotta say that this was really surprising. I've known about it since Ket got worried (around payment date) and i feel so bad for reinforcing Kets trust in Simon. However, i still consider him a friend (more than an internet contact by a long shot) and would like to hear what he has to say about it someday. I've been pretty quiet on this issue so far but theres so many wrong posts in this thread, lets just say that due to 5/10 shot taking Simon was making nowhere near 50-100k/month and although he definitely had the capability, most of the games he was playing when you all met him were at 1-2 - which was where he originally developed his style. I dont particularly think its appropriate for his family to share their details with anyone associated with this forum beyond Ket. Neither should any of you. Simon is his own man and although he may still be living with his parents (nobody knows if he is, really), he made a choice that has nothing to do with his family. So just leave them out of it, they're good people. I have other thoughts but nothing suited for LP. Ket, i hope you someday get your money back and as you said earlier, its better to pay back eventually than never - something i learned through you some years back for a considerably smaller amount. Once you steal 20k from someone the community deserves to know, and once the community knows you no longer have any right to special treatment or respect.

Not true at all. All the community deserves to know is who he is (which they do) and the amount stolen + if he's paid back.

On May 19 2009 09:56 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On May 19 2009 09:19 Twisted wrote: In Copenhagen Simon said he played like 100k hands per month on 5/10 and made like 50~100k monthly, hence why I said 20k wouldn't be much to him if that were true. His father owns some company and he said they were also planning some poker based thing (not sure what) together. Not sure if his parents are rich. Well, theres a huge diffrence between what some people claim and what is the actual case. I always liked simon but at the same time I knew he was a big talker and that he definitely had some illusions of grandeur so I never took his claims(of both his poker skills and claimed profits) very seriously.

Maybe I misunderstood what he said about his earnings but that's what I remember. Either way yeah he did sound like a big talker but he also praised me shitloads for the player I am and wanted to do mutual sweat sessions while we were there (using laptop). Never got around to it though. Maybe he wanted to build trust with me so he could scam me as well? I dunno.

FWIW I think Simon/Trine (his girlfriend) removed all of Simon's poker 'friends' from facebook contacts.

whatever, he didnt repay it on time and doesnt answers = hes big time scumbag, no excuses(only excuse if hes fcukin dead), no exceptions !!
and WTF r u talkin about lawyers ?? do u have signed contract on paper ? no ? then we got no case.

On May 19 2009 04:50 Technics wrote: he clearly is doing something -EV - he lost them playing or stole them from you.. he could've made way more playing even 100NLH asking you for help with his game but you can look on the brighter side... if that didn't happen he could've come up with smarter idea and took you more...don't think that this will make you feel better though i hope you get your money back

People seem to look at this like its black and white. Its fine, its just that you have no clue who this guy is and how many different things (within reason) could have happened that cause this that bothers me. I'm in a pretty unique position compared to most but too many people are talking when they have no clue about the guy.

^ ^ = Friendship Fail.

Hope everything gets resolved for both parties... For Ket's money and for sOah honor/reputation.

ggplz

nobody goes from "crushing" 3/6 to getting pounded at 5/10.

he probably was either heatering 3/6 and/or lying if you didnt actually know his results. regardless of the kidnapping incident it was pretty apparent to me that his "sick style" was pretty bad, and he was damn close to a breakeven player at best. given his forum attitude herein it's obvious his ego is massive and his grip on reality is fleeting.

your posting about info in his life that LP "doesn't need to know" and medications he is on sounds like an attempt to make phantom excuses for his behaviour. if someone needs medication in order to not spew at poker / behave reasonably then these are actual character issues, and medication has nothing to do with the fact that his behaviour is appalling..

ahh forget it. just because you're buddies with a scummer and a scummer can act nice does not change the facts. a T-Rex wearing a human mask is still a T-Rex.

On May 19 2009 15:14 nolan wrote: ggplz nobody goes from "crushing" 3/6 to getting pounded at 5/10. he probably was either heatering 3/6 and/or lying if you didnt actually know his results. regardless of the kidnapping incident it was pretty apparent to me that his "sick style" was pretty bad, and he was damn close to a breakeven player at best. given his forum attitude herein it's obvious his ego is massive and his grip on reality is fleeting.

Well, i know you two hated each other. Doesnt sound like u have any idea about his results though based on what you wrote and just base that on how you percieved him. He was completely open about his results and showed me graphs + let me sweat him all the time (we had our computers next to each other) while he explained what he was doing/thinking. I dont have AIM installed (or know my screenname anymore tbh) otherwise i'd log in and msg u and u can probably figure out why. If u have MSN hook me up.

On May 19 2009 15:14 nolan wrote: your posting about info in his life that LP "doesn't need to know" and medications he is on sounds like an attempt to make phantom excuses for his behaviour. if someone needs medication in order to not spew at poker / behave reasonably then these are actual character issues, and medication has nothing to do with the fact that his behaviour is appalling.. ahh forget it. just because you're buddies with a scummer and a scummer can act nice does not change the facts. a T-Rex wearing a human mask is still a T-Rex.

At least you partially got that. Again, i didnt ask him for details regarding the medication - i'm just explaining that without medication he couldnt focus and got angry/frustrated and generally emotional really easily. It seemed like it was very strong shit.

I havent talked with him for a few months now because he also cut contact with me. He isnt just a random internet name that scammed someone to me though.

dude sounds bipolar

sOah has always been a really nice guy. since the whole kidnapping thing he's been on anti-depressant meds and hasn't been himself. he did have some emotional problems prior to that and mixing with those meds the damage it can do to you is tremendous. they could have played a big part in what happened with Ket. i'm really, really worried about his health right now, because the sOah i know would feel sick to his stomach if he were to steal a friend's money. at the same time, unless he was in a life threatening situation there is no excuse for ignoring ket for so long now. it's terrible that ket is missing 20k, but my biggest concern is what's going on with sOah here. i really hope we get to the bottom of this and ket gets his money back.

sorry to hear about this Ket

gl getting your 20k back

so sorry to hear that dude hope you get your money back ....
but TO ME a guy who is supposedly making 50-100k a month asking for a loan of 20k and worrying about some small exchange rates and taking that as a excuse to not deposit himself i mean COME ON, i dont know you much but i assume you play highstakes and read souls sometimes , this looked really weird from the start!

Where can I read about the kidnapping? I have a hard time believing that, if a danish guy got kidnapped it would be all over the news here but I dont remember reading anything about a danish guy who got kidnapped

http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/464979/Soah_s_case.html

that's really tough, losing the 20k is definitely a bitch but realising someone you valued as a friend is willing to screw you over is worse

best of luck getting an explanation and your money back

this will fix your spirits

On May 19 2009 13:49 looserSR wrote: whatever, he didnt repay it on time and doesnt answers = hes big time scumbag, no excuses(only excuse if hes fcukin dead), no exceptions !! and WTF r u talkin about lawyers ?? do u have signed contract on paper ? no ? then we got no case.

I'm in a hurry now, so can't look up Danish law, but I'm pretty sure this isn't correct.

On May 20 2009 02:59 DustySwedeDude wrote: Show nested quote + On May 19 2009 13:49 looserSR wrote: whatever, he didnt repay it on time and doesnt answers = hes big time scumbag, no excuses(only excuse if hes fcukin dead), no exceptions !! and WTF r u talkin about lawyers ?? do u have signed contract on paper ? no ? then we got no case. I'm in a hurry now, so can't look up Danish law, but I'm pretty sure this isn't correct.

I go with Dusty's opinon...written papper should'nt be necessary but nevertheless it would make the case a whole lot easier since the effect of that papers working as evidence would be very strong. But msn-conversations (stating amounts and conditions for the term loan) in conjunction with a copy of the actual banktransfer would probably pretty much do it. However I wonder how a court would consider the purpose of the loan. A debt due to gambling is at least in Sweden considered as an "Pactum Turpe" which means that the debt is not "valid" or at least not possible to enforce in a court of law. I'm not at this time sure if the purpose (gambling) can affect the loan in a sense that it would be considered as a pactum turpe also. Also that could differ in Denmark if that's were the defendant comes from. However there might be another way to go and that's by raising penal process instead of a civil one and allege for damages due to his fraudulent behavior....Just some thoughts...

If he sues, and he wins he still doesn't get the money if soah cant pay. But putting the police on the case might be bad for soah and his family, so maybe that would change his mind.

The "kidnapping" is 99.9% pure bullshit, everything in that story stinks, it was never mentioned any where in the danish media and even a polish guy wouldn't kidnap someone for a lousy 20K. I guess it was all part of his scam.

Admin lookup the IP of Alchemik, the "polish" guy who confirms some of the story with his two post and never posted again

Awww when I Went to the WSOP last year I came with a cheque that completely was useless in the USA (even though my bank HSBC told me it'd be fine as a cashiers cheque it wasn't it was basically a bankers draft that i'd have to open an account and take a week to clear),

Got to Ket on MSN bam 20k cash within 24 hours - and I felt absolutely terrible that when I got back to the UK it took me about 8 days (I believe) to wire it back to Ket, (which infact I still feel bad about because there was literally no excuse or reason just forgot/lazy).

Anyway I just wanted to say really lame, really really lame. I don't know that you'll get it back because his reputation is ruined now whether he pays it back or not. I can't believe someone would do this though.

As people are saying there is no excuse for this behaviour and by no excuse I mean no excuse. (Apart from perhaps death - perhaps I personally would have someone know who I owed money to so it could be paid off or at least I think my girlfriend would know if I owed anyone and pay back), you do not borrow money without the means to pay it back on the date without letting the party know. So what I'm saying is there is no excuse not to pay back the money so please anyone thats making excuses for him or trying to give reasons there isn't any.

On May 20 2009 04:14 Zorglub wrote: If he sues, and he wins he still doesn't get the money if soah cant pay. But putting the police on the case might be bad for soah and his family, so maybe that would change his mind. The "kidnapping" is 99.9% pure bullshit, everything in that story stinks, it was never mentioned any where in the danish media and even a polish guy wouldn't kidnap someone for a lousy 20K. I guess it was all part of his scam. Admin lookup the IP of Alchemik, the "polish" guy who confirms some of the story with his two post and never posted again

Alchemik is a regular poster on tlpoker.pl, if someone doesnt have a lot of posts here doesnt mean he doesnt have credibility. I got like 600? posts here, but around 6,000 on .pl.

Sigh.... bad luck mate, hope you get the 20k back

I never liked him after he said I should be banned for posting advice in the midstake forums, he always seemed up himself.

And I concur with Nolan that you certainly never going from crushing 3/6 to getting pounded on 5/10.

On May 18 2009 18:58 milkman wrote: bad beat, im american so obv im terrible at geography and 2 lazy to look at a map, but if u can drive a car from your house to his, u should drive over there and run him over.

Besides the fact that the United Kingdom is an island(?) he would have to drive to through that long tunnel to France, then through Germany and then Denmark, crossing some bridges and then actually try and find him.
I think it would be the easiest to try and get his father to act. Either make Simon pay or pay himself. I'm pretty sure his dad is rich from what he told me he worked high up in a bank. Not much evidence here, but I was invited to his fathers weekly pokergame and it was well above my stakes.(not saying much..)

GL Ket and I hope Simon pays back. Cannot believe it myself. I actually hope that he's been kidnapped or something and just havent been able.

omg
its amazing how we cant trust anyone anymore
-.-
gl with that
hope you get it back

On May 20 2009 04:14 Zorglub wrote: The "kidnapping" is 99.9% pure bullshit, everything in that story stinks, it was never mentioned any where in the danish media and even a polish guy wouldn't kidnap someone for a lousy 20K. I guess it was all part of his scam. Admin lookup the IP of Alchemik, the "polish" guy who confirms some of the story with his two post and never posted again

jesus christ how many times do i have to say that it was even mentioned in the police report on official website of polish police along with the picture of the kidnapper in the handcuffs. and asked a few players from poland and apparently the kidnapper went to prison for this but was recently released

On May 19 2009 17:05 Loco wrote: sOah has always been a really nice guy. since the whole kidnapping thing he's been on anti-depressant meds and hasn't been himself. he did have some emotional problems prior to that and mixing with those meds the damage it can do to you is tremendous. they could have played a big part in what happened with Ket. i'm really, really worried about his health right now, because the sOah i know would feel sick to his stomach if he were to steal a friend's money. at the same time, unless he was in a life threatening situation there is no excuse for ignoring ket for so long now. it's terrible that ket is missing 20k, but my biggest concern is what's going on with sOah here. i really hope we get to the bottom of this and ket gets his money back.

maybe you should be more reserved about character judgments in the future.

really, why does everyone want to defend this guy?

On May 20 2009 11:34 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: omg its amazing how we cant trust anyone anymore

if you were trusting people before, you were probably doing it wrong.

deception is about as old as humanity, probably older.

On May 20 2009 17:20 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2009 11:34 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: omg its amazing how we cant trust anyone anymore if you were trusting people before, you were probably doing it wrong. deception is about as old as humanity, probably older.

Don't be such a sourpuss. Money tends to bring out the worst in people and there are perhaps few people with the strength of character to stay honest in tough times.

To go from this to that you should never trust anyone is going too far. You just have to keep your head together and try to think about what you really know about someone, especially what you know about how they behave in tough situations and what risks you are willing to take for them.

Curious, would you be honest yourself? If yes, then how come you have so little faith in humanity?

it's not low faith in humanity.

it's realism.

i'm quite an optimist, but i'm very protective when it comes to anything concerning money as it is indeed the root of most evil. i wish others felt the same way.

bernie madoff, for example. i'm sure there was at least 100 people who would have vouched for him relentlessly before he got nabbed.

he convinced a boatload of people that he was wealthy and a top notch investor. likewise we see people in the poker community who convince people of the same in a different field, and situations like this arise.

i'm not saying Soah did/didn't scam, just saying that it does happen, and it doesn't look good from here. In fact, I hope that he is scamming, because if he is not then it's possible he is in fact in danger or involved in some dire situation... and there is no price on human life.

There's a couple of things i'd like to say on this matter.

First of all thank you Ket for doing this. Your posts regarding transfers, scams as well as poker players loyalty and integrity in poker have always been valuable to the community. I think there should be a section on LP about how to safely transfer money (not transfer it all in one go), make staking deals and have resourceful articles written on subjects like these to educate poker players regardless of skill and sums of money. Also general guidelines to prop-bets, sports betting escrow even? and maybe a page for tournament % swapping and buying. This will eliminate the threads made to ask the same questions over and over. Mods, this would benefit LP !

I will not speculate on the matter of kidnapping taking place or not. All thats clear to me is something of a nasty nature took place. Where i live (Estonia) Poland has a pretty bad reputation. If something Baal suggested could take place, Poland is definitely not out of the question for me. We have many Polish users and i am sorry if i offended you or your country in any way. I hope one you Polish guys can prove me wrong about the reputation and your policemen. I am not asking anyone to say bad things about their country.

ggplz, we used to talk a while back and i hope you will not take things the wrong way if i say that what you are asking is a stretch at best. You are putting your reputation and name on the line for someone who has dishonored his agreement with Ket and besides that cut contact with everyone including yourself. You are asking everyone to take your word without providing much solid information. I don't like to see you taking fire for the off chance that sOah rivers a miracle and pays the debt, apologises to Ket and gives a reasonable explanation.

There is much controversy regarding sOah. I have never met him, i think i msg-d with him twice. I have no bad blood with him. As a bystander it looks like people are trying to justify his action through what he has been through (kidnapping) and even medicine. This does not give him the right to scam anyone. He has to take responsibility for his actions.

We shouldn't tell people that are/were friends with sOah that they lack judgement because they are not to blame and most likely couldn't see this coming. I would like to agree with bigbb33 that the community deserves to know who this person is to avoid future scams. For example LP hall of shame and danish cardrooms. I strongly agree with ggplz about sOahs family we (besides Ket) should be kept out of it.

I hope we all learned a valuable lesson from this. Ket, i hope things work out for you. I would personally like you to atleast look into taking this a step further. If anything it will set an example that this kind of action will not go unpunished.

On May 20 2009 18:58 cariadon wrote: ggplz, we used to talk a while back and i hope you will not take things the wrong way if i say that what you are asking is a stretch at best. You are putting your reputation and name on the line for someone who has dishonored his agreement with Ket and besides that cut contact with everyone including yourself. You are asking everyone to take your word without providing much solid information. I don't like to see you taking fire for the off chance that sOah rivers a miracle and pays the debt, apologises to Ket and gives a reasonable explanation.

I'm not asking anything and i dont care if LP believe me or not. Thats my account of the guy, you can accept it or ignore it. If anything, my 'reputation' should still have some weight when i post something though. I'm not sitting here with Simon's medical records or pictures/videos of him throwing tantrums so theres not really any 'solid' information to provide beyond what i've seen/heard myself. If there was, i wouldn't be posting anything that could get me in trouble. If sOah pays the debt, i won't take any 'fire' because nothing can happen.

On May 20 2009 15:44 SneakrFreakr wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2009 04:14 Zorglub wrote: The "kidnapping" is 99.9% pure bullshit, everything in that story stinks, it was never mentioned any where in the danish media and even a polish guy wouldn't kidnap someone for a lousy 20K. I guess it was all part of his scam. Admin lookup the IP of Alchemik, the "polish" guy who confirms some of the story with his two post and never posted again jesus christ how many times do i have to say that it was even mentioned in the police report on official website of polish police along with the picture of the kidnapper in the handcuffs. and asked a few players from poland and apparently the kidnapper went to prison for this but was recently released

It is amazing that nothing was ever mentioned about this in danish media, that is very weird... also he was recently released, so he was in prison less than a year for kidnapping?

On May 21 2009 13:26 Zorglub wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2009 15:44 SneakrFreakr wrote:   On May 20 2009 04:14 Zorglub wrote: The "kidnapping" is 99.9% pure bullshit, everything in that story stinks, it was never mentioned any where in the danish media and even a polish guy wouldn't kidnap someone for a lousy 20K. I guess it was all part of his scam. Admin lookup the IP of Alchemik, the "polish" guy who confirms some of the story with his two post and never posted again jesus christ how many times do i have to say that it was even mentioned in the police report on official website of polish police along with the picture of the kidnapper in the handcuffs. and asked a few players from poland and apparently the kidnapper went to prison for this but was recently released It is amazing that nothing was ever mentioned about this in danish media, that is very weird... also he was recently released, so he was in prison less than a year for kidnapping?

His family tried their best to keep it quiet and out of the news afaik. Pretty sure at the time it was brought up in a thread somewhere.

edit: Just checked, i recieved a PM saying exactly that.

this guy is total sucker

On May 20 2009 18:58 cariadon wrote: There's a couple of things i'd like to say on this matter. First of all thank you Ket for doing this. Your posts regarding transfers, scams as well as poker players loyalty and integrity in poker have always been valuable to the community. I think there should be a section on LP about how to safely transfer money (not transfer it all in one go), make staking deals and have resourceful articles written on subjects like these to educate poker players regardless of skill and sums of money. Also general guidelines to prop-bets, sports betting escrow even? and maybe a page for tournament % swapping and buying. This will eliminate the threads made to ask the same questions over and over. Mods, this would benefit LP ! I will not speculate on the matter of kidnapping taking place or not. All thats clear to me is something of a nasty nature took place. Where i live (Estonia) Poland has a pretty bad reputation. If something Baal suggested could take place, Poland is definitely not out of the question for me. We have many Polish users and i am sorry if i offended you or your country in any way. I hope one you Polish guys can prove me wrong about the reputation and your policemen. I am not asking anyone to say bad things about their country. ggplz, we used to talk a while back and i hope you will not take things the wrong way if i say that what you are asking is a stretch at best. You are putting your reputation and name on the line for someone who has dishonored his agreement with Ket and besides that cut contact with everyone including yourself. You are asking everyone to take your word without providing much solid information. I don't like to see you taking fire for the off chance that sOah rivers a miracle and pays the debt, apologises to Ket and gives a reasonable explanation. There is much controversy regarding sOah. I have never met him, i think i msg-d with him twice. I have no bad blood with him. As a bystander it looks like people are trying to justify his action through what he has been through (kidnapping) and even medicine. This does not give him the right to scam anyone. He has to take responsibility for his actions. We shouldn't tell people that are/were friends with sOah that they lack judgement because they are not to blame and most likely couldn't see this coming. I would like to agree with bigbb33 that the community deserves to know who this person is to avoid future scams. For example LP hall of shame and danish cardrooms. I strongly agree with ggplz about sOahs family we (besides Ket) should be kept out of it. I hope we all learned a valuable lesson from this. Ket, i hope things work out for you. I would personally like you to atleast look into taking this a step further. If anything it will set an example that this kind of action will not go unpunished.

lol are u serious? police helping in a 20 or 50k kidnapping set up?

also what do u mean by bad reputation?