5/10 Live, Hero Call?

Villan is an old guy named Habib Khanis (some guy who travels tourney circuit). He is an angry old nit who berates players / dealers when he loses pots. For the most part he plays somewhat straight forward / passive, and tends to miss value in a lot of spots (like all old guy donk pros do). Some previous history about a month ago: I coolered his $400 short stack with AA vs KK, he proceeds to berate the dealer for the set up, then I say it happens to everyone and then he starts yelling at me saying that I've never been set up like that in my life, so I smile and was like "well yeah caz I run way better than you do" and I think he misunderstood that for "well yeah caz I play better than you do" so he then berates me for another 30 mins while the floor guy keeps telling him to cool down.

$1.5k effective ~Villan limps in MP, BTN limps, I'm in bb with KcQc and raise to $65. Only get one caller. Flop is Tc-8h-6s, I bets $105 and calls fairly quickly. Turn comes Ad. I bet $245. He goes straight to his chips, and then tanks for like 3 minutes. He has the $245 counted out, but he also reaches for a stack of $500 more and is counting and restacking and repeating this process for the entire time he was thinking. Finally he just calls, and I kind of interpret his acting to raise on the turn as a kind of "plz don't bet the river too big / at all" sort of move, but ignore that for now.

River is 8d, meh fuck. Triple barrel?

Even more interesting is when I check. He tanks for a minute and then says "I bet only $575" while betting $575. Call? Am I really only losing to 66 here?

i call a lot of things, but it would never occur to me to c/c here

Dunno how much he limps and stuff but I'm betting river like 3/4 here. As played I think he has it. If he can have a missed straight draw he can have a lot of thing then he'd either check behind (T9s etc) or things that include an 8/flopped straight. Don't feel like there are enough hands in his range that doesn't have showdownvalue for him to be bluffing enough of the time here.

QJ Q9 J9 75 fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfu

But seriously I expect the river to be checked back upwards of 99% of the time here

I call here, given his turn behaviour. He either had 2p+ on turn or you win.
I don't think you would have posted it if you called and won as it would be a pointless brag and I think you got the right idea, seeing how you mentioned his turn behaviour, so I guess you called and lost to A6s?

On April 08 2009 15:25 JonnyCosMo wrote: QJ Q9 J9 75 fuckfuckfuckfuckfuckfu

I think I would triple barrel river w/ part of the reason being u dont want to c/f to this type of range. With the dynamic against described opponent its also great for metagame even if u do get called.

This game plays with the skill level of ur standard .25c/.50c ring game online, so maybe i shoulda put this in the low stakes section btw :-p

this is a very very very very easy call actually

you guys obv dont play live poker if you say fold here

90% of the time any hand that is betting the river here is definitely raising the turn (2 pair they will put you on the ace and try to get it in, set they will put u on the ace and try to get it in)

all the hands that beat you either a. raise the turn or b. can't bet the river

you're up against 8x very little of the time and all the possible missed str8 draws and gutterballs majority of the time

ESPECIALLY AFTER THE BODY LANGUAGE GESTURING AS PLAYED

u guys really think some fag with a huge hand is gunna act like hes about to raise then call?

LOL, NEVER

but he did say "i bet only 575"

On April 08 2009 16:32 Rekrul wrote: this is a very very very very easy call actually you guys obv dont play live poker if you say fold here 90% of the time any hand that is betting the river here is definitely raising the turn (2 pair they will put you on the ace and try to get it in, set they will put u on the ace and try to get it in) all the hands that beat you either a. raise the turn or b. can't bet the river you're up against 8x very little of the time and all the possible missed str8 draws and gutterballs majority of the time ESPECIALLY AFTER THE BODY LANGUAGE GESTURING AS PLAYED u guys really think some fag with a huge hand is gunna act like hes about to raise then call? LOL, NEVER

i personally think he has A7 or A9 with his riv comment

no the bet is too big for those hands, live players man, live players

I Dont get it
board was 10-8-6-A-8 and u have King high
and u'r thinking about a call?

lol this can't be a good call

there's better spots in a live 5/10 game than this, just muck it and win the next 50 pots in a row

I've never won 50 pots in a row.

im sure this is how 80% of below avg tourney players play A7/A9 cept for the river bet size, as rekrul mentioned. very puzzling!

Not that puzzling.

On April 08 2009 19:24 n0rthf4ce wrote: im sure this is how 80% of below avg tourney players play A7/A9 cept for the river bet size, as rekrul mentioned. very puzzling!

He will check the river with everything that is worse than AK here. I'm never getting value-towned by a A7/A9 hand in this spot.

Edit: am I really only losing to 86 or T8? he doesn't raise turn because he fears aces-up now, but fills up on river and gets checked to so = bet?

Bleh i shoulda called

On April 08 2009 19:24 n0rthf4ce wrote: im sure this is how 80% of below avg tourney players play A7/A9 cept for the river bet size, as rekrul mentioned. very puzzling!

uh no they all check the river

are you kidding me LOL u have no idea how often in live 5/10 games n shit the river goes check check first guy has AK/AQ/AJ 2nd guy shows A9 or w/e lol

man him saying "only" is scary

how is this not bet> fold > call..

On April 09 2009 01:33 n0rthf4ce wrote: man him saying "only" is scary

only something a faggot with nothing trying to be cool desperately wanting to show a succesful bluff would say

(or someone with the fucking nuts, which he CANNOT have here)

On April 09 2009 04:54 Rekrul wrote: Show nested quote + On April 09 2009 01:33 n0rthf4ce wrote: man him saying "only" is scary only something a faggot with nothing trying to be cool desperately wanting to show a succesful bluff would say (or someone with the fucking nuts, which he CANNOT have here)

ONLY 575

LOL

this is so on the money

at 5/10 I would really prefer just giving it to him but if the read on the fact he said "ONLY" is strong, a call here is def profitable + the fact its good for ur table image.

call b/c if you are right habib will flip his shit and tilt like none other, giving us lots of money in the process.

i agree with most of what rek is saying about live games tendencies here. i call and be shown 76o sometimes tho and go wtf =[

nobody thinks he can have A8 ? would makes sense for an old nit who misses value a lot to be scared of actually raising his 2 pairs on the turn, and then confidently betting the river....

Interesting story, I fold because I don't want to get berated by this old geezer even when I'm right.

Otherwise, I like a call. I mean do you expect someone like him to just check behind with his busted draws or would he bluff them always? Anyways live poker is not my thing, so I don't know anything.

On April 11 2009 01:30 Fayth wrote: nobody thinks he can have A8 ? would makes sense for an old nit who misses value a lot to be scared of actually raising his 2 pairs on the turn, and then confidently betting the river....

call flop ?

On April 11 2009 08:36 Patrocle wrote: Show nested quote + On April 11 2009 01:30 Fayth wrote: nobody thinks he can have A8 ? would makes sense for an old nit who misses value a lot to be scared of actually raising his 2 pairs on the turn, and then confidently betting the river.... call flop ?

huh lol obv, he flops middle pair he's obv not gonna fold to a c-bet

yesterday, a relevant hand occurred. the game was 5-dollar and 10-dollar unlimited texas. we were playing in the poker room at the venetian casino-resort in las vegas. here's how the hand went down:

i raised to $40 from middle position, and got called by the cutoff, button, and one of the blinds. the flop came AA3 rainbow. the action checked to the button, who bet $120. the blind folded, i folded, and the cutoff called.

the turn was a 7, completing the rainbow. the cutoff checked, and the button bet $150, leaving himself $220 behind. the cutoff called. the river was a 9. the cutoff checked and the button immediately checked behind. the cutoff didn't want to show his hand - he looked embarrassed. the button didn't want to show his hand either - he looked even more embarrassed. after about 20 seconds of the dealer demanding "show your cards!" the button finally turned over AK. the cutoff disgustedly showed AQ and was furious.

so, no, fayth, he can't have A8

On April 11 2009 16:25 Fayth wrote: Show nested quote + On April 11 2009 08:36 Patrocle wrote:   On April 11 2009 01:30 Fayth wrote: nobody thinks he can have A8 ? would makes sense for an old nit who misses value a lot to be scared of actually raising his 2 pairs on the turn, and then confidently betting the river.... call flop ? huh lol obv, he flops middle pair he's obv not gonna fold to a c-bet

live idiots fold middle pair constantly, and usually face-up to show you that they respect you, that way they think you'll fold to their bluffs

doesnt this whole speech proves villain could have had A8 on turn by playing it weak, just like these 2 fishes played their hand super weak without a full house

A8 is possible, but I read his turn behaviour not so much as "made hand or draw", but rather just "draw". ^^

On April 11 2009 20:23 Fayth wrote: doesnt this whole speech proves villain could have had A8 on turn by playing it weak, just like these 2 fishes played their hand super weak without a full house

his speech means he is bluffing

turn behavior is also never A8

On April 12 2009 06:38 Rhaegar wrote: A8 is possible, but I read his turn behaviour not so much as "made hand or draw", but rather just "draw". ^^

live oldies ever actually "think" about raising draws on turn ?

More like fake-thinking so that it'll look like they're slowplaying something?

i dont know really, his fake thinking can also mean a weak hand (for him, could be 2 pair tho) that wanted to act tough and didn't want you to bet the river so he could get showdown, an 8 is possible imo, I think i put him on 98 or 87 actually.

I mean he can call the flop with those hands, then on the turn the Ace is a great card for you and he knows you will fire bluffs at it, he still has a lot of outs, but is contemplating a move so he doesn't have to face a big river bet from you if it is a blank and have a tough decision.

On April 13 2009 08:54 DustySwedeDude wrote: More like fake-thinking so that it'll look like they're slowplaying something?

precisely