Stars raises rake of HU,hypers,spin&go

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/...o-who-will-become-new-1-site-1485517/

also ending battle of planets.

Originally Posted by PokerStars Steve:


The following changes will be implemented for PokerStars.com and shared liquidity sites in the near future. Implementation dates are included for each change and full tables detailing the changes are provided at the end of the post.

Battle of the Planets
The week ending Saturday, November 1st will be the final week of the Battle of the Planets promotion. Prizes will be paid out this week as per normal.

Rake Changes Effective November 3, 2014
Rake will increase for all stakes of heads-up hyper turbo Sit & Go tournaments.

Tournament fees for all forms of knockout tournaments, including both scheduled and Sit & Go tournaments, will now be equivalent to tournament fees charged for similar non-knockout tournaments. This is a change for all forms of knockout tournaments except for progressive super knockout tournaments for which tournament fees will not change.

Hyper-turbo scheduled tournament fees will increase from 2% to approximately half of the fees charged for other scheduled tournaments at same or similar buy-in levels.

The cap for ring game rake for hands dealt at PL/NL games to exactly two players will increase to $2 for stakes $25/$50 and higher and $1 for all other stakes.

The cap for ring game rake for PL/NL games at $25/$50 and higher stakes with 5+ players dealt in will increase from $3 to $5.

Spin & Go rake will be increased at stakes $3 and above. Details are in the table at the end of the post. Note that the ‘Rake’ row in the table refers to the % of prize pool withheld for rake, as is consistent with our current communication on our website and communication of pricing by competitors about similar products.


Rakes Changes Effective January 1, 2015
Hyper-turbo satellite Sit & Go fees will be increased at stakes below $2,000 from 2% to an amount equivalent to roughly 75% of the fees charged for cash prize hyper-turbo Sit & Go tournaments of the same buy-in. A table at the end of this post includes sample fees for a wide range of buy-ins.

New tournament fees will apply in rebuy tournaments for players whose play is subject to significant local taxes in the form of gaming duty and/or VAT. For such players, tournament fees equivalent to those charged for initial buy-ins will be charged for rebuys and add-ons. We will soon provide a full list of sites/countries affected on January 1, but as examples, PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, PokerStars.uk, and PokerStars.bg will qualify due to gaming duty and players from Germany will qualify due to VAT.

Spin & Go Prize Changes Effective November 3, 2014
Spin & Go prize distribution will change to offer top prizes of 3000x the buy-in at each pool, increased from 1000x. Full details of the new distributions are available in the table at the bottom of this post.


Details and Examples of Changes

Sit & Go



Spin & Go



Scheduled MTT



The above are examples; similar changes will apply at all stakes.

NL/PL Ring Games

Saw this, so fucking sick for a lot of people... fuck you Amaya.... fuck you

they are making bad changes for us lightning fast
by the end of the year they goin to become just an online casino with poker

Like people in the 2+2 thread have stated. This is a huge opportunity for sites like 888 and PartyPoker to get their shit together.

Doesnt affect me but makes me feel very concerned about the future :/

Wow, so bad for the future games. That HU rake is attrocious esp at the low stakes. Spin & gos needed lower jackpots and more low tier prizes but they did the opposite. These changes make me feel like they plan to cancel them due to player feedback to gain some player support but maybe not, it's amaya after all Not much else to say.. the numbers are right there

I dont understand why...

Why would they reduce rake for non hyper and increase for hyper... Perhaps to redistribute the player pool to less popular games

next step segregate player pool

implemented for PokerStars.com and shared liquidity sites in the near future.

they also might have other skins like 888/Ipoker

Basically this is the end of SSNL HU altogether and my HU escapades at NL16-NL50 regular tables are now over too

Originally Posted by fityfmi View Post 5829 hands fityfmi +$1169.93 TheGuv88 -$2771.01

lol

This topic should be titled 'gg pokerstars' instead of the other one :|

On October 30 2014 04:22 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Basically this is the end of SSNL HU altogether and my HU escapades at NL16-NL50 regular tables are now over too Show nested quote + Originally Posted by fityfmi View Post 5829 hands fityfmi +$1169.93 TheGuv88 -$2771.01 lol

WOW more liker pokerscum

working hard towards less and less profitable poker

On October 24 2014 18:50 player999 wrote: They are just 100% going for the short term money grab to get the 5 billion back, Amaya is the worst thing that has ever happened to online poker and it is hard to beat Black Friday for that title.

On October 30 2014 07:38 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 24 2014 18:50 player999 wrote: They are just 100% going for the short term money grab to get the 5 billion back, Amaya is the worst thing that has ever happened to online poker and it is hard to beat Black Friday for that title.

or maybe they see the same looming doom that previous owners did, and the purchase wasn't for longevity

hint: also look at amaya's stock growth this year

i don't understand your hint because it's totally consistent for a company that focuses on short term bullshit to keep investors happy with rising stock

I don't see what's so dooming about 500mi in 6 months

On October 30 2014 09:03 player999 wrote: I don't see what's so dooming about 500mi in 6 months

care to elaborate?

276.3m net for ps+ftp according to their report, and that number has been on the decline for a while now

jump ship and avoid bustoness or potential law trouble or technology/bots or who knows wat pass it off to amaya who wants it for completely different reasons

well played jews, well played

From 2+2:


>https://twitter.com/PokerStars
>
>200k followers. Seems like a good place to voice your displeasure.

Bejamin1 here - this is just my theoretical rant on the situation. Not like I can prove any of the conclusions I draw, but I have a feeling I'd be right in the end.

I'm going to present my point of view because it seems like there are a good deal of players who think raising rake is actually a good decision for Pokerstars. In my opinion it's simply a ploy to generate additional short-term revenue and boost the stock price. It won't benefit the games at all.

In a zero sum poker economy what happens?
-Many players win
-Players brag to their friends about how much $$$ they are winning
-Friends deposit because "holy crap poker so cool easy money I'm gonna be the next Matt Damon" from Rounders

That's the sex-appeal of the game for recreational players. That's what it's always been. The idea of bragging to your friends about how you're winning. Even just moderately average players can win.

Now, obviously a rake free climate won't exist. And in-software advertising revenue generating model + greatly reduced rake however, is the best possible future for the poker economy. Many players have success. Lots of word of mouth. Lots of bragging and lots of new deposits. That's how the game spreads and grows. If Pokerstars were less greedy, they'd make more in the long term AND the game would survive just fine.

Right now, something like what 5% maybe 1% of players will be winning players over 100K+ hand samples? Most fish play maybe 15,000 hands in a year or some random number like that. They're still paying 10pt/bb rake too at that rate, except with their level of play most of them are dramatically losing players and only a few make money and cash out. That's not good for the poker economy. You want weak players, casuals, and fish to be winning fairly often and cashing out and bragging about it. That's hugely important to the poker economy to keep it growing.

Reduced rake is a win for everyone long term, including Pokerstars. They need to be more creative about their revenue. And frankly, they should eliminate the vast majority of "Pokerstars Pros" and support only a key few. It's ridiculous how many they are - vast majority of fish have no idea who these people are. I don't mind giving randoms on the final table 5k to wear a Pokerstars hat or whatever, but semi-permantly sponsoring a bunch of people who nobody gives a shit about is a waste of money.

Lastly - and maybe this will come as a surprise, but Pokerstars should basically eliminate Supernova Elite status and possibly Supernova as well. The FPP system should stay the same, but allow for reasonably acquireable bonuses at the highest rate for everyone. Make it work out to 40% rakeback for everyone or just two levels with Platimum being 25% RB or whatever it is and Supernova being 40%.

Why you ask? Well guess what, insane amounts of mass grinders does what to the games? It creates a climate with every reg sitting on 20 tables and playing mindlessly, not chatting, not interacting, etc... It creates unbalanced fish to regular ratios because people simply have to play this many tables to get decent rakeback.

If you just provide most players with good rakeback without having to play insane amounts (chopping off the 20-30% extra SNE grinders have been getting) then you will create softer games. There will be no incentive to play 50 tables. They'll be incentive to play 4-8. Play well, and battle vs. other regs/casuals. This is especially true in a rake reduced climate. The edges will be more reasonable so good players can actually play each other.

A climate of massive rake + the only good rakeback is Supernova X3++++

What does that do? It forces players to play insane amounts, for minimal edges, and essentially become rake churners. They win a bit of money, and churn most of the rest of it back into rake. It's a bad cycle for the poker economy and it's not good for anyone.

Pokerstars should be aiming to make the games great and to have as many people as possible bragging to their friends about winning. That's what keeps this great game going. It's not anything else. I couldn't give less of a F*** that Nadal plays on Pokerstars and most other people don't either. They see it as gambling and losing because nobody talks about winning anymore. They just talk about how hard it is and how its rigged etc etc etc.

Build a positive climate where people realistically think they can win and regulars aren't forced to seat script, and play 10 billion hands to acquire rakeback. That's how you improve things. The rest of this is just bollocks.

Or you can be short-sighted and do what Amaya is doing... which is squeezing as much money as possible out of this game until it dies from being choked to death. They aren't helping anything, and they have zero long-term vision.

The only thing that will fix this is dramatic change from Pokerstars. Or unregulated bitcoin poker rising to power with the vision to use lower rake to attract lots of winners and people who can then go brag about where they won.

On October 30 2014 00:57 Trav94 wrote: Like people in the 2+2 thread have stated. This is a huge opportunity for sites like 888 and PartyPoker to get their shit together.

This. Let's get some real competition going again ffs.

Just going to add this - those supporting are in the 2p2 thread so people here can mostly ignore that lol.

On October 30 2014 00:57 Trav94 wrote: Like people in the 2+2 thread have stated. This is a huge opportunity for sites like 888 and PartyPoker to get their shit together.

888.com has 4$ cap rake, so they dont care about poker being a game of skill so much.

PartyPoker has shown many times they have no idea how to run a business or act as professionals.

On October 30 2014 09:49 Skoal wrote: 276.3m net for ps+ftp according to their report, and that number has been on the decline for a while now jump ship and avoid bustoness or potential law trouble or technology/bots or who knows wat pass it off to amaya who wants it for completely different reasons well played jews, well played

On October 25 2014 11:48 Defrag wrote: $218.4mlnin net income (compared to $189.9mln in 2013) and $246.4mln in net cash from operating activities (again, up from $207mln in 2013). This is quite a heavy growth rate.

On October 30 2014 10:24 RunGoodMan wrote: Bejamin1 here - this is just my theoretical rant on the situation. Not like I can prove any of the conclusions I draw, but I have a feeling I'd be right in the end. I'm going to present my point of view because it seems like there are a good deal of players who think raising rake is actually a good decision for Pokerstars. In my opinion it's simply a ploy to generate additional short-term revenue and boost the stock price. It won't benefit the games at all. In a zero sum poker economy what happens? -Many players win -Players brag to their friends about how much $$$ they are winning -Friends deposit because "holy crap poker so cool easy money I'm gonna be the next Matt Damon" from Rounders That's the sex-appeal of the game for recreational players. That's what it's always been. The idea of bragging to your friends about how you're winning. Even just moderately average players can win. Now, obviously a rake free climate won't exist. And in-software advertising revenue generating model + greatly reduced rake however, is the best possible future for the poker economy. Many players have success. Lots of word of mouth. Lots of bragging and lots of new deposits. That's how the game spreads and grows. If Pokerstars were less greedy, they'd make more in the long term AND the game would survive just fine. Right now, something like what 5% maybe 1% of players will be winning players over 100K+ hand samples? Most fish play maybe 15,000 hands in a year or some random number like that. They're still paying 10pt/bb rake too at that rate, except with their level of play most of them are dramatically losing players and only a few make money and cash out. That's not good for the poker economy. You want weak players, casuals, and fish to be winning fairly often and cashing out and bragging about it. That's hugely important to the poker economy to keep it growing. Reduced rake is a win for everyone long term, including Pokerstars. They need to be more creative about their revenue. And frankly, they should eliminate the vast majority of "Pokerstars Pros" and support only a key few. It's ridiculous how many they are - vast majority of fish have no idea who these people are. I don't mind giving randoms on the final table 5k to wear a Pokerstars hat or whatever, but semi-permantly sponsoring a bunch of people who nobody gives a shit about is a waste of money. Lastly - and maybe this will come as a surprise, but Pokerstars should basically eliminate Supernova Elite status and possibly Supernova as well. The FPP system should stay the same, but allow for reasonably acquireable bonuses at the highest rate for everyone. Make it work out to 40% rakeback for everyone or just two levels with Platimum being 25% RB or whatever it is and Supernova being 40%. Why you ask? Well guess what, insane amounts of mass grinders does what to the games? It creates a climate with every reg sitting on 20 tables and playing mindlessly, not chatting, not interacting, etc... It creates unbalanced fish to regular ratios because people simply have to play this many tables to get decent rakeback. If you just provide most players with good rakeback without having to play insane amounts (chopping off the 20-30% extra SNE grinders have been getting) then you will create softer games. There will be no incentive to play 50 tables. They'll be incentive to play 4-8. Play well, and battle vs. other regs/casuals. This is especially true in a rake reduced climate. The edges will be more reasonable so good players can actually play each other. A climate of massive rake + the only good rakeback is Supernova X3++++ What does that do? It forces players to play insane amounts, for minimal edges, and essentially become rake churners. They win a bit of money, and churn most of the rest of it back into rake. It's a bad cycle for the poker economy and it's not good for anyone. Pokerstars should be aiming to make the games great and to have as many people as possible bragging to their friends about winning. That's what keeps this great game going. It's not anything else. I couldn't give less of a F*** that Nadal plays on Pokerstars and most other people don't either. They see it as gambling and losing because nobody talks about winning anymore. They just talk about how hard it is and how its rigged etc etc etc. Build a positive climate where people realistically think they can win and regulars aren't forced to seat script, and play 10 billion hands to acquire rakeback. That's how you improve things. The rest of this is just bollocks. Or you can be short-sighted and do what Amaya is doing... which is squeezing as much money as possible out of this game until it dies from being choked to death. They aren't helping anything, and they have zero long-term vision. The only thing that will fix this is dramatic change from Pokerstars. Or unregulated bitcoin poker rising to power with the vision to use lower rake to attract lots of winners and people who can then go brag about where they won.

What a wonderful post I'm not a high volume player, I play enough to support myself and have lots of time for other stuff (training mma primarily), but lately I've felt like the Stars VPP system is just... bad. I enjoy playing poker, I enjoy studying poker, but with the way the VPP system works I feel like if I study or play some game that isn't my main game etc, its time I could have spent reaching another vpp milestone.

What's also really strange to me how no poker site seems to have looked at the recent trend in gaming towards achievments and other social features used for player retention, and thought: "Hey, poker is a game... and we play it online, we could do this too!". People could have profiles, get badges or what not based on stuff like join date, hand milestones, display their best tournament finishes, there's so much you could do here.

I suppose that while poker and gaming seems closely linked to me, at the corporate level there's not much overlap.

On October 30 2014 13:20 dogmeat wrote:

hahaha

lol.. greenstar

I think this is pretty good decision by pokerstars, theyll make a lot more money with these changes.
Im still waiting for anonymous zoom.

tian you have some good ideas there
also i think there's going to be a phoenix rising.

why doesn't lp start it's own thing?

^LOL

How much money do you think a new pokersite would need?

On October 31 2014 04:25 napoleono wrote: ^LOL How much money do you think a new pokersite would need?

Afaik around €30,000-40,000 if you want to start a room on existing network like ipoker etc.

Going with your own network, like PokerStars, I expect those numbers to be in tens of millions.

Yep, huge barriers to entry. And they are a great service, don't get me wrong. But fuck them man....

I'm planning on going out west soon, withdrawing my (lol) roll, and play plo on partypoker or some other site with a kickass deposit bonus/decent traffic.

I don't even want to think how much I've paid this site over the last seven years.... 200k? More? Fuck if I know.

I'm wearing my 1 mill vpp badge for the next little while, see if it changes how people play against me haha

Just out of interest, any info on how the new rake compares to party/ipoker/other major sites? I think for hu cash / 25/50, pokerstars rake is now in line with party/ipoker (it was lower before)

edit: when party still had 25/50

maybe they want FT to be the cashgame site (at least for HU)

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...d-pca-satellites-due-overlay-1486008/

On October 31 2014 10:02 Defrag wrote: Show nested quote + On October 31 2014 04:25 napoleono wrote: ^LOL How much money do you think a new pokersite would need? Afaik around €30,000-40,000 if you want to start a room on existing network like ipoker etc. Going with your own network, like PokerStars, I expect those numbers to be in tens of millions.

Nah I don't think its much more expensive in an own network , all you ll have to essentially do is get your own software + im pretty sure you'd still have to pay a network you want to join for software anyway. There are plenty of new sites on solo networks which open up and either close in a few months or join ipoker/enet/ongame/prima

What to do against a raise? reraise.

Arent people happy they will become Supernova elite 2x as fast now ?

lol relax everything is the same

On November 02 2014 00:01 VanDerMeyde wrote: Arent people happy they will become Supernova elite 2x as fast now ?

hilarious

I am annoyed by introducing Spin&Go but:

http://pokerfuse.com/features/special...n-every-major-pokerstars-change-year/

http://pokerfuse.com/news/media-and-s...3-spin-go-debate-pokerstars-responds/

“When a new product comes along that captures the imagination of a wide range of players, it is not something that we can just pass on because we don’t want to upset the regular players,” he continues. (...) PokerStars is following the pack with Spin & Go. It is already offered on iPoker (as Twister) and Full Tilt (as Jackpots). Its major competitor in the French market, Winamax, is credited with the invention of Lottery Sit and Gos with its debut of Expresso earlier this year, where the format was immediately popular with its player base. (...) “Spin & Gos are bringing literally tens of thousands of new and previously inactive players to the site,” writes Dahl. (...) It was Winamax ( this company leads .FR market before PS.fr ) that crystallized the concept into the common format proliferating today—the 3-handed, high speed, instant-seat tournament structure where the rake is built into the prize pool.

Also after paying 700M with FTP aquisition ( 2 years of their income?) they may be in not so good shape as we think.
Not that i will ever defend rake increase ;o

The security token for Supernova (1.5k fpp) is out of stock, but the more expensive ones for lower statuses are available. Really?...

This will never end

On November 02 2014 17:22 tomson wrote: The security token for Supernova (1.5k fpp) is out of stock, but the more expensive ones for lower statuses are available. Really?...

lol

Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site...

On November 01 2014 16:58 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On October 31 2014 10:02 Defrag wrote:   On October 31 2014 04:25 napoleono wrote: ^LOL How much money do you think a new pokersite would need? Afaik around €30,000-40,000 if you want to start a room on existing network like ipoker etc. Going with your own network, like PokerStars, I expect those numbers to be in tens of millions. Nah I don't think its much more expensive in an own network , all you ll have to essentially do is get your own software + im pretty sure you'd still have to pay a network you want to join for software anyway. There are plenty of new sites on solo networks which open up and either close in a few months or join ipoker/enet/ongame/prima

i think the higher stake players should look into doing something like this. you'd already have the name, there's a community behind the site which I don't think other sites have, and I would also expect more transparency and no-bullshit, kinda like HeroDave? with his skin. though, this site would need a major upgrade.

On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site...

Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this.

On November 03 2014 14:52 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site... Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this.

Hence the "turn it into a real site"

On November 03 2014 14:52 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site... Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this.

oh my, no player that you have an edge on wants to play with you? <hugs>

On November 04 2014 01:51 MadeInPolanD wrote: Show nested quote + On November 03 2014 14:52 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site... Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this. oh my, no player that you have an edge on wants to play with you? <hugs>

Thats completly fine. Any player that doesnt want to play me doesnt have to.

Drying up the games for not really a good reason is not fine. (almost no games ever running anyway, what the chance to get that fish?)

On November 04 2014 03:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On November 04 2014 01:51 MadeInPolanD wrote:   On November 03 2014 14:52 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site... Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this. oh my, no player that you have an edge on wants to play with you? <hugs> Thats completly fine. Any player that doesnt want to play me doesnt have to. Drying up the games for not really a good reason is not fine. (almost no games ever running anyway, what the chance to get that fish?)

Are you a PokerStars Rep? Cause you know they are always looking for ways to make regs win like 0.1 to 1 bb/100 making more and more rake and making regs play more and more for smaller amounts of $. If you're not a PS Rep you should really apply there, your philosophy is right in their corner.

On the other hand maybe you are God. Tellin other ppl what are the good and the bad reasons to do something.

now looks like they are boycotting HU and games over nl200$ LOL
in the quick seat lobby, can`t see HU or games above nl200, check this shit:



with Daniel Cunt picture in front
"managing the poker economy" = pocketing all the money lol

On November 04 2014 04:01 MadeInPolanD wrote: Show nested quote + On November 04 2014 03:44 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 04 2014 01:51 MadeInPolanD wrote:   On November 03 2014 14:52 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 03 2014 14:21 Trav94 wrote: Someone just please buy Full Tilt from Stars and turn it into a real site... Still a bumhunter lobby with 296 idiots opening 1 HU table each only willing to play big fish that is killing ALL action on that site. Nothing will happen until they shut down this. oh my, no player that you have an edge on wants to play with you? <hugs> Thats completly fine. Any player that doesnt want to play me doesnt have to. Drying up the games for not really a good reason is not fine. (almost no games ever running anyway, what the chance to get that fish?) Are you a PokerStars Rep? Cause you know they are always looking for ways to make regs win like 0.1 to 1 bb/100 making more and more rake and making regs play more and more for smaller amounts of $. If you're not a PS Rep you should really apply there, your philosophy is right in their corner. On the other hand maybe you are God. Tellin other ppl what are the good and the bad reasons to do something.

Im not a very good poker player, but if you use the common sense approach you realize that opening up a poker site and seeing 296 players waiting for a recreational fish to sit down is not good for poker. Even thou a player is really bad at poker he might acctually be a smart guy in real life and see that something is up here.... Its more likely that what will happen is the games dry completly up and you make 0bb/100 instead of 0.1bb/100 (like they already did on Betfair, Ongame, Full tilt poker where they refused to do anything about this HU bumhunter problem)

I remember on Everest poker a few guys were waiting HU for fish.... And then the mass recruiting for HU bumhunting begin on 2+2, coaching sites like deucescracked etc... Even the worst french fullring regs were now HU bumhunters and the lobby started to look like a complete joke.... the fish disappeared more and more. I complained every day to support and warned them that the pokersite would dry up like Betfair and that they didnt want that. Eventually they acctually listened to me (they said) and put Headsup games into a separate lobby (that nobody cared about) and the games got A TON BETTER RIGHT AWAY (strange?).

Oh now it's clear, you want more fish for 6max. Nothing to do with 'what's good for poker'.

the butthurt lol

the only regs complaining about HU are the ones that went to 6max because they can't bumhunt HU since there are zillions of bumhunters already
last month 80% of my action was vs regs, so theres a lot of action

they introduced zoom, and the same regs keep crying "oh but zoom is different", they will introduce KOTH and the same regs will keep complaining "oh but I dont want to play the top regs in the world", what they really want is to have fishs in their games

On November 04 2014 09:19 drone666 wrote: the only regs complaining about HU are the ones that went to 6max because they can't bumhunt HU since there are zillions of bumhunters already last month 80% of my action was vs regs

So why are there never any HU games running on Full tilt poker, Betfair, Everest (before it turned into ipoker) and Ongame ? I see a lot of talk here and 2+2 about all these people claiming to be willing to "play anyone" but still no HU games ever running except maybe 1-2 totally 200nl to 100.000nl

Pokerstars is different, they have hidden their HU tables to the bottom of the lobby (great solution). Im not talking about Pokerstars. Headsup Zoom is also a great idea.

On November 04 2014 08:28 MadeInPolanD wrote: Oh now it's clear, you want more fish for 6max. Nothing to do with 'what's good for poker'.

Getting rid of all the HU bumhunters and dead lobbies are obviously good for poker yes. (Whatever makes the fish wanting to play again is good for poker). Anyone playing Everest poker remembering when they decided to isolate the dead HU lobby from other cashgames. Had really big effect there. (for everyone)

The solution for HU is KOTH or Zoom HU

the thing is poker is a lot like the american south in the civil war

most of the random guys in the confederate army didn't have wealth or connections to like big plantations and didn't own slaves, but they would still have the personal motivation to fight in an army of a newly formed country because they saw the success of plantation owners and that dream was a part of their life and ethos

similarly on the internet every fish wants to be tom dwan or whatever but they aren't retarded either or maybe i'm overestimating, but surely when they see ads for like spin and go win $ in minutes they can connect the dots to lose $ in minutes. real casinos are different because they are also proxies for tourism and nightlife, i believe online the deposit button shouldn't feel to fish like you are just dumping your paycheck into PS's bank account. i mean maybe there are multiple kinds of fish some just degen but some want to feel like they are playing cards also i would think the slot machine animation would be insulting at some level to them but whatever

i don't understand extortionate HU rake though surely it doesn't cost that much to operate. why drive people away from a format that's popular... and kind of funny spin and go rake goes up so soon after its debut

VanDerMeyde, please write to me in one place...

From: VanDerMeyde
Posts: 4061
Subject: Moron
Date: 11/4 11:53
Christ what a moron u are


Nice conversation skills btw.

Zoom HU seems like the worst idea ever

On November 05 2014 10:42 Spitfiree wrote: Zoom HU seems like the worst idea ever

I nominate hu4rolls for stars to implement and the worst idea ever. You enter a hu cashgame on 4 tables against another player for a fixed amount of money and then watch as 2 computers play eachother, grinding rake until one player busts the other.

On November 05 2014 11:12 cariadon wrote: Show nested quote + On November 05 2014 10:42 Spitfiree wrote: Zoom HU seems like the worst idea ever I nominate hu4rolls for stars to implement and the worst idea ever. You enter a hu cashgame on 4 tables against another player for a fixed amount of money and then watch as 2 computers play eachother, grinding rake until one player busts the other.

2nded

stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/

tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything.

On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything.

Good news

imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament":

"Great news.

But what I dont understand is this:

Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys.

Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it?
Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell...

Am I missing something here?"

http://www.isnegreanuawhore.org/

If you wondered what they are going to do with teh moniez:

http://www.highstakesdb.com/5245-bwin...al-takeover-amaya-prime-suspects.aspx

http://calvinayre.com/2014/11/12/busi...akeover-target-amaya-gaming-playtech/

Now Amaya won't even let you leave. You want to play on other sites? Too bad, we own them too.

there are no international anti-trust agencies to block a stars party merger? Lol, they will be able to raise rake forever and kill it even faster

ideal poker™ one time!!!

Well looking how Partypoker behaves it would be better for online poker if someone else would buy them, i'd prefer iPoker cause of marketshare issues, but is iPoker giving great experience to players? I dont think so, PokerStars with their software and customerservice owns everyone else which is kinda weird: how hard is to have a brain and work out a good business model thinking: "how would i like to be treated and what would be my priorities while playing" even do reaserch and some polling. But no, lets put money in and expect revenue 'casue people like gambling'.
In a way i must say that competition of PokerStars deserves what they are getting.

On December 13 2014 05:04 MadeInPolanD wrote: In a way i must say that competition of PokerStars deserves what they are getting.

I agree completely. I was looking for new sites to play on (based on traffic, fishiness, and deposit bonuses) and I automatically thought of partypoker. I remember they had the 600$ deposit bonus FOREVER. However, after looking at their site, I couldn't find that anymore. Just some 50$ deposit bonus bs.

I wrote them asking about their deposit bonuses - explaining I'm a high traffic player, etc. etc. Also told them this is the time for them to put some serious effort into regaining market share as there are a lot of discontent pokerstars players willing to move..

It took them over a week to write back. And basically they didn't even touch the content of my email. At all. And said ya, all they have is that tiny bonus. I was amazed.

And that's partypoker - not some other tiny site.

This IS the time for competitors to try something. It's as if they're happy with their current revenue and don't want to ruffle any feathers or something.

Long story short - where the f is the business savvy of their competitors?

big companies tend to use legislation in order to monopolize their market. but im sure even if there was a new pokersite pstars would just buy it b4 it got big.

casino sites that would start counting toward comps when you visit and all the direct satellites imaginable and have your wagers count toward their vip programs, etc. that would be something to see, especially if they made it national

On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?"

Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

People get so emotional and start doing these dumb irrational argument and statements, I wonder if I were doing the same have not being in a situation that helps me be more thoughtful and with a more balanced perspective in my views regarding pokerstars

On December 15 2014 19:05 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?" Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that.

People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share

On December 15 2014 19:05 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On November 10 2014 11:28 VanDerMeyde wrote:   On November 10 2014 02:52 k4ir0s wrote: stars on the seat script, and seat blocking issues. http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...-scripting-issues-pokerstars-1487640/ tho I doubt that their planned solution will change anything. Good news imo also this from the 2+2 thread by "Sharkament": "Great news. But what I dont understand is this: Its very obvious (even to those just watching tables) who are using seat scripts and when. It should be even more obvious to you guys. Why not just forbid the software at least and start banning those who still use it? Im sure almost everyone would stop using it and you can just continue banning/warning those who dont. Its pretty easy to test aswell... Am I missing something here?" Does it sound logical to you that Pokerstars would ban a rake paying customer? Me either. The only interest Pokerstars has is to squeeze the juice out of this slowly deflating less juicy lemon called online poker. They aren't interested in the health of the games. They aren't interested in what's best for the poker economy. They're only interested in one thing. How to turn all the money into rake, but keep people coming back for more.

Whats not logical about banning players using cheating Tools such as ''seat scripting'', confiscating any winnings (if any) and give it back to the players they were taken from ? These cheating Tools kills the games, meaning less games and less rake for pokerstars.

pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee!
any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ?

PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that. People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share

Just so everyone is clear, this isn't how math or economics of poker works. Don't take it from me though, listen to Baalim, the stars pro, telling you stars has to rake you more to pay stars pro salaries.

On January 05 2015 13:23 drone666 wrote: pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee! any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ?

Grow up peoples!

On January 05 2015 15:42 diggerflopboat wrote: Show nested quote + PokerStars has been pretty much the any company interested in making poker grow in all the world and they have done so, your claim that it wants to squeeze the "lemon dry" is absolutely ridiculous, and ofcourse they are interested in the health of the games the company thrives in that. People moan and cry about changes and rake, but havent you noticed that the whole world is taxing online poker? every couple of weeks a new one regultes, taxes and some even segregate the market, so the company takes an economical hit, a hit that we as player have to share Just so everyone is clear, this isn't how math or economics of poker works. Don't take it from me though, listen to Baalim, the stars pro, telling you stars has to rake you more to pay stars pro salaries.   On January 05 2015 13:23 drone666 wrote: pokerstars charging again 50 cents again on hu tables weeeee! any SNG players can confirm is the rake changed again ? Grow up peoples!

Says fish follow pros... then criticizes stars for paying pros... fuck logic lol

Says fish follow pros... then criticizes stars for paying pros... fuck logic lol

What I point out is that it is not a law of economics that pros follow the recs. It is simply what you "old school" players have birthed as a sub optimal culture. If you taught ALL players to be conscious of rake and effective rake we would not be in this situation. And yes I think stars using rake to pay all these pros that are clueless about the sustainability and profitability of the game is a terrible leak that the individual player has. I don't want my rake going to pay Dneg to tell the players that higher raked poker is better for everyone.

In the future he will certainly wish he never said all that stuff, as it will stand out as ludicrous and I'd encourage any stars pro to think about whether or not there is actual merit behind such a stance or if they are just used to sticking up for their "position".

What has happened here is by doing math in the direction of not having central banking Nash was able to create and entire new branch of economics spelling out perfectly the advent of bitcoin.What I am pointing out is you and others have simply failed to step out of the (very shallow) box and think about what the game would be like if we took the raked monies and kept them in the game. I love it when people say they can't understand, its like telling them the world is "no longer" flat...only the next generation will subscribe to such an obvious reality.

Once you step outside the box, the "new math" is super obvious and easy.

Poker 2.0

+ Show Spoiler +

Baalim do we at least agree that making a a bunch of rake changes and then rolling them back is a terrible net business decision? I play a high pop field on stars and I definitely noticed a significant decline in traffic. They won't get these players back. But more importantly is it not suspicious they rolled the rake back before releasing a statement?

Rake hike cancelled

http://www.pokerstarsblog.com/en/blog.../2015/2015-rake-rollback-153140.shtml

So we see the beginning of "asymptotically ideal poker" or in other words the steady and exponential decline of "effective" rake. Like we pointed out, Stars cannot raise rake because all it does is teach the players to form a coalition to fight it by effectively leaving the site to crypto and other avenues. It is not a phenomenon of logic but rather natural by way the invisible hand. It is only myth and misunderstanding to suggest or think otherwise. Does Dneg still believe that we need high rake to have good games? Then are we worried now? Seems ridiculous doesn't it?

And now Stars has effectively taught the play a previously not understood or accepted truth: by cooperation the players CAN in fact lower the effective rake...

How long until we collectively realize the true power of this fact?

Yes digger. Your crusader group caused them to roll back their rake raises. It had nothing to do with the high amount of criticism from players.

You did it.

Grats

On January 06 2015 16:49 devon06atX wrote: Yes digger. Your crusader group caused them to roll back their rake raises. It had nothing to do with the high amount of criticism from players. You did it. Grats

Don't be ignorant, economics did it if anything. I simply pointed out a very long time ago that Poker Stars cannot arbitrarily increase rake. And since new technology has lowered the cost of offering poker, rake must therefore inevitably slide. My contribution has not yet been realized. But what is happening is the old argument that sites high rake is good for the game is looking more and more ridiculous everyday. Stars is in trouble and whomever is advising Amaya and Stars is absolutely not functioning on sound economics or logic.

Do we understand this? They are going in the completely wrong directly and it is going to crush them very soon.

while you and others are attempting to ridicule me I am consulting with multiple upstarts that old model cannot compete with or exist beside.

bah i always do this, meant to edit above post