gg Pokerstars

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...tars-currency-exchange-rates-1484001/

Hello, PokerStars has made some changes to currency exchange rates and we thought we should provide a little context to the decision. PokerStars has historically applied the mid-market exchange rate from XE, and before that Reuters, for exchanging between USD and GBP, EUR, and CAD. That rate of exchange is simply not one you would have had from any financial institution or processor. The policy change to introduce a margin on these currencies does move us more in line with the market, but we’re very confident that the new rate applied to your selected currency is still going to be extremely competitive. In fact, we’d say that it’s better than that offered by most banks, card issuers and payment providers. The margin on these currencies, applied to the mid-market exchange rate provided by XE, will be applicable only at the point of deposit and withdrawal. There remains no fee to transfer between currency wallets in the PokerStars client, nor for joining or leaving poker tables in different currencies. We frequently review our policies across all parts of the business, which all go towards making PokerStars the safest and most secure poker site to play at, but we will post here again before any future currency exchange change goes live. Sincerely, Michael Josem PokerStars Communications Team

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=45019529&postcount=15

I just tried and it seems like they charge 2,5% for a USD--> EUR transaction. No way that that's cheaper than most banks like OP claims. It's just another money grab by Pokerstars. Really bad move to not openly disclose the percentages also... Long time PS fanboy and 5x SNE here, but these kind of things do annoy me a lot.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=45020174&postcount=25

It's actually a pretty big money grab. They do not only take 2,5% of the winning players profits (assuming a winning player doesn't have to deposit), but they also take 2,5% off the recreationals deposits. So the decrease the money to be won by regulars as well. And on top of that they also worsen the rec/reg ratio because they take 2,5% of rec's deposits... And the 2,5% is just for eur/usd and eur/gbp conversions. God knows what is taken from the more obscure currencies

Amaya grab

everytime there´s some news about pokerstars, its always bad news
fuck amaya

Hm that's very disconcerting......

But they say there's no fee for transferring between currencies in the stars wallet, so if I do like I have been doing, keep my wallet in USD and cash out in EUR, I wont get any additional fee right?

So when I cashout USD into Canadian dollars, they take 2.5%?... wtf

Tried converting $1 USD to CAD, then converted back. Lost 1c... weoooooo

transfered $5 to CAD, then cashed it out. We'll see what happens..

Ok, so for the record. If I cash out USD as a transfer to my CAD bank account, I get charged 2.5% fee whatever. But if I exchange USD to CAD in the client, then cash it out. No fee. This is going to be shitty for people who cashout into a currency not supported in the client though?

I love it, PS is continuing with the bad decisions, hopefully in some time they ll lose the monopoly cause of it

This is actually painful to read... I'll be writing them an email for sure. I hope they reverse the decision.

On October 24 2014 08:48 drone666 wrote: everytime there´s some news about pokerstars, its always bad news fuck amaya

The banks that credited Amaya for the purchase own stars now. Amaya Is just a vehicle or a shell through which to structure the transaction and paper

First of all, note that pokerstars don't disclose the rate in the OP but according to posts in the 2+2 thread its a 2.5% fee. I currently keep my acc balance in USD and cashout in SEK. SEK isn't allowed as a currency balance probably because it's a less used currency and because there are no SEK games. With the changes I will make 2.5% less from every withdrawal or deposit since the pokerstars cashier doesn't support SEK as a game currency. That will make it punishing to join/leave the site as I frequently do. Imo, that's fucking BS and it's punishing/discouraging to people playing from countries that don't use the main currencies pokerstars hosts games in.

Right now the software always cashes out from your preferred currency and you can change that whenever you want. However, say you play in USD and that's your preferred currency but you live in the UK (GBP), if you don't change your preferred currency to GBP and don't convert your desired amount of USD to GBP from within the client prior to cashing out you will get hit by 2.5% for withdrawing straight from USD to a GBP bank account despite the client supporting both. That is criminal and exploits customers ignorance. The old pokerstars would never have done that. Note that you can change between USD and GBP from within the client at mid-market rate which means you basically lose nothing on the conversion.

This change will hit all deposits and withdrawals with a 2.5% fee. That's 2.5% of fishes deposit money instantly removed before they play and 2.5% of fishes money removed when you or they cashout.

An old issue I came across from the 2+2 thread that I thought was worth pointing out again is about the automatic currency conversion option. I.e. you have all your money in USD but want to play a GBP game. When you sit, you either have to use money from a GBP balance or convert USD to GBP to sit. The problem with not keeping a GBP balance for when you play GBP games is that every time you enter and then leave the table you have gone through 2 conversions which round down. That means you lose 1-2 cents for just joining and leaving the table. That makes the automatic conversion option pretty punishing for low/micro stakes players. Say you open/close 40 tables in a session, that cost you up to about 80c. So yeah, stay away from the automatic currency option and always keep a balance for each currency you play in.

That is pretty shitty, nice timing considering they pretty much own the whole poker market atm. I hope it get alot of publicity and they get bashed for it, but they probably don't care cause they make money.

On October 24 2014 15:28 Oddeye wrote: That is pretty shitty, nice timing considering they pretty much own the whole poker market atm. I hope it get alot of publicity and they get bashed for it, but they probably don't care cause they make money.

Oh, but you are wrong, and so would they be too. Poker is starting to get regulated basically everywhere around the world. If it used to be somewhat between lines when it comes to laws about taxation and etc.before it's a whole different picture now. Those regulations allow a higher competition rate, especially if the USA does it too and when this happens and PS continues with this kind of policy they will suck it deep throat style.

It's already charging players huge over the years considering how lame their "rakeback" policy is and on top of that they implement even more costs for the players. So fucking scummy, im guessing billions a year aint enough, gotta get a few more milly on top of it... Only shows how bad monopoly is for a market in a nutshell

On October 24 2014 09:25 TianYuan wrote: Hm that's very disconcerting...... But they say there's no fee for transferring between currencies in the stars wallet, so if I do like I have been doing, keep my wallet in USD and cash out in EUR, I wont get any additional fee right?

Just read through the 2+2 thread and that seems to be right:

Email exchange with Stars. Me: I'm aware of the new exorbitant charges that Stars have introduced when depositing/withdrawing funds. However can you confirm that as someone who deposits/withdraws in GBP that I can avoid all of the atrocious new charges by only keeping a GBP wallet, and that my automatic currency exchanges that take place every time that I buy into/leave a USD game game do not incur a fee? Stars: Thank you for writing us and allowing us to be of assistance. Please be advised that if you cashout from your GBP bankroll in GBP then you will not be charged this margin . However, if you cashout from your USD bankroll in GBP then the margin will apply. This margin only applies to cashouts and deposits when PokerStars bankroll currency is different to the cashout/deposit currency. I hope this information explains the situation for you, however, please contact us again should you require further assistance or clarification. Regards, Shweta PokerStars Payment Services Me: Yes, I require further assistance: Can I deposit in GBP into my GBP wallet, then transfer those funds into my USD wallet and play using those funds- then at a later date when I am ready to cash out, reverse the process and incur zero fees? Stars: Thank you for contacting us. Yes you can do that. As that the changes in exchange rate margin where applied only to deposit and cashout transactions and not transfers. Please do not hesitate to contact us for any questions or comments. Regards, Marilyn S. PokerStars Payment Services.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=45024881&postcount=93

"Yes you can do that"

Translation: you can but we would prefer a good % of you didn't so you donate 2.5% on every deposit/withdrawl for no reason

I think this is the first time I've seen stars actually try to trick players into paying fees that are avoidable

On October 24 2014 12:17 Spitfiree wrote: I love it, PS is continuing with the bad decisions, hopefully in some time they ll lose the monopoly cause of it

I think they are trying to compensate for diminishing revenues

can't wait to hear what's next! seems like there's a new thread every few months with bad news

HAHAHA love it

Thank you pokerstars

On October 24 2014 18:22 VanDerMeyde wrote: HAHAHA love it Thank you pokerstars

Why are you thanking them?

For the Brazilian Series of Poker they are running sats at a rate of 2.09:1 on the Brazilian Real:USD for the package. Depositing rates are almost 2.60 and market rate is at 2.47.

Supernova elite perks such as WCOOP Tickets and 1mi freeroll removed for 2015, drastic VIP changes announced for 2016, Team Pros fired left and right, spin and goes, soon blackjack and roullete.

They are just 100% going for the short term money grab to get the 5 billion back, Amaya is the worst thing that has ever happened to online poker and its not hard to beat Black Friday for that title.

With the current trend over the past 5 years it's obvious that whatever opertational costs or diminished revenues they encounter, they automatically penalize the existing and future players for it. It's an unregulated industry and it's a "vice" and not really some sport, the market has been on the decline so the worst is yet to come. Once the original owners cashed in by selling to Amaya I think it's pretty clear they've jumped ship and moved on to better things with the money they've generated back when it was the wild west.

Just sent this email in and I think I covered the main points. Feel free to edit and email it to them if you like.

+ Show Spoiler +

gg peeps time to make money like normal people

I used to be jealous of people in the countries that allowed pokerstars...but the site is dead now

i hope you like the new spin and cashout format there is a 77,380 out of 100,000 chance for a 2.5% fee but a 13,510 out of 100,000 chance for a 5% and so on there is a 5 out of 100,000 chance of a 35% fee jackpot

as usual people can only moan that the situation now is relatively much worse than they got used to before, nevermind that in absolute terms the prior situation was unusually and unreasonably good and now it's more like normal. currency conversion fees are a fact of life, deal with it. don't want to pay 2.5%? Get yourself a bank account in pokerstars currency to cash out to and do the conversion yourself elsewhere. With Citibank I pay something like 1-1.5% iirc.

online poker, particularly the ability of professionals to extract positive expectation, is on the decline. but the reason is not too much to do with amaya's terms.

well what do other sites do though Romm3l

Lol, at least there is a 20$ free from PS right now, should cover some costs t.t

On October 25 2014 09:42 uiCk wrote: Lol, at least there is a 20$ free from PS right now, should cover some costs t.t

where?

got email; use code ADD20 for instant 20$ reload bonus. dunno if its specialized bonus (i bust my PS roll recently)

On October 25 2014 07:24 Santafairy wrote: well what do other sites do though Romm3l

I don't play poker anymore but I used to play on every major site for years. I'm pretty sure you ate the exchange fee every time you deposited/withdrew to/from an account with a different currency to the poker account. Depending on your payment account it would either be your bank or Neteller/Skrill that took the bite out of you. It was only pokerstars that would let you convert currency at the midpoint (something which basically doesn't exist elsewhere in the world).

On October 25 2014 06:50 Romm3l wrote: and unreasonably good and now it's more like normal

you gotta rake 120k $ to reach around 60% rakeback yearly, while all other sites offer this as a standard

extremely good terms indeed

only good thing about ps is that there is a high variety of tables midstakes + and best tournaments of any kind ever, and thats only because they hold the market, sure there are some other perks like using FPP to buy whatever you want and money transfer between players, but all of those are because of the monopoly they hold and vice versa

I'd say that playing there before 200nl is just insane loss of value

On June 13 2014 01:52 Baalim wrote: lol relax everything is the same

On October 25 2014 13:04 Spitfiree wrote: you gotta rake 120k $ to reach around 60% rakeback yearly, while all other sites offer this as a standard

888 and Party, for example.

On October 25 2014 13:04 Spitfiree wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2014 06:50 Romm3l wrote: and unreasonably good and now it's more like normal you gotta rake 120k $ to reach around 60% rakeback yearly, while all other sites offer this as a standard extremely good terms indeed only good thing about ps is that there is a high variety of tables midstakes + and best tournaments of any kind ever, and thats only because they hold the market, sure there are some other perks like using FPP to buy whatever you want and money transfer between players, but all of those are because of the monopoly they hold and vice versa I'd say that playing there before 200nl is just insane loss of value

I am commenting only on the exchange rate fee introduction when i say it was unreasonably good before, since that is the point of this thread.

though if you're debating general value-for-money per rake dollar, you'll have to show me what you mean by 60% rb being standard on all other sites since that is not as I remember it at all. As I remember, rb like that was an under-the-table deal with shady affilates on dodgy sites named big bong hitters poker or something like that, where there is a decent risk the rakeback you get ends up being negative infinity percent as the site goes belly up along with your roll.

edit: if youre playing below 2/4 bigbet I can see an argument for getting the big rb deal on big bong hitters poker to avoid what you call an insane loss of value. But then again if you're playing below 2/4 then you have to ask whether playing poker at all is an insane loss of value in terms of your time and the other things you could be doing with it.

People are way over reacting imo.

If you manage your shit right, you will end up paying 0 on currency exchange fees so all this ends up being is a bit more of a hassle.

Of course it sucks this is the direction the company is taking but isn't it to be expected? Don't really understand why everyone is tilting so hard at a group spending 5 billion $ on a company and then trying to make money off of it.

If you compare it to what bwin did when they bought out party, what PS has done so far is very reasonable.

For reference:

On February 04 2014 15:20 Daut wrote: updated list of ways party fucked customers: -removed palladium elite and >30% rakeback bonuses -changed structure of bonuses so they take longer to buy and longer to clear -player segregation *later fixed* -removed monthly promotions -3% cashout fee to skrill and other e-wallets -removed online chat support -cut affiliate % in half -never paid back customers for bug that didnt automatically load tournaments starting

complain with yer wallets
otherwise they're just maximizing their edge or whatever which you should all approve of

On October 25 2014 15:26 impact69 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 13 2014 01:52 Baalim wrote: lol relax everything is the same

I guess statements like these must be part of the contract, but still very disrespectfull

On October 26 2014 13:13 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2014 15:26 impact69 wrote:   On June 13 2014 01:52 Baalim wrote: lol relax everything is the same I guess statements like these must be part of the contract, but still very disrespectfull

Except that I didn't type that on this thread -_-

We are not forced by contract to speak against what we believe in, we can speak our minds but obviously being smart about it because we represent a brand.

I obviously don't like this forex exchange fee it affects me directly just like you, but they are allowing exceptions so its not retroactively enforced to previous deposits in important cases, sadly this is the industry standard, afaik all the other sites were doing this for a long time

Yeah, I thought after that it might have been taken out of context

And I agree that the issue brought up by this topic is not ultrageous or anything, but all the recent changes combined are unbelievable, along with the next ones coming such as VIP Program changes and casino games

.

sup!
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/...pin-go-prizes-battle-planets-1485512/

dogmeat, im making that into a new thread. really big change

On October 25 2014 19:50 Liquid`Drone wrote: complain with yer wallets otherwise they're just maximizing their edge or whatever which you should all approve of

i don't want to sound too trolly but if this change affects someone negatively and you tell them to vote with their wallets doesn't that basically involve taking their money and paying the fee to get it off stars? i mean you say vote with your wallet but in this case paying a fee doesn't really "show" stars what you think