UFC 154: St-Pierre vs. Condit

Date: Saturday, November 17th
Preliminary Card (Facebook): 17:30 LP.net / 3:30pm PST / 6:30pm EST Facebook stream
Preliminary Card (FX): 19:00 LP.net / 5pm PST / 8pm EST
Main Card Time (PPV): 21:00 LP.net / 7pm PST / 10pm EST
Live Streams: Prelims are Live on FX & Facebook - http://www.vipbox.tv (All MMA events are listed under the UFC button. Press the UFC button and you'll see the event in the list.)






^ 8 free fights (there's an arrow on the video to view the next page)

GSP and Condit's political videos on why you should "vote" for them
+ Show Spoiler +

UFC Primetime: St-Pierre vs. Condit
+ Show Spoiler +

Main Card

Georges St-Pierre (22-2) vs. Carlos Condit (28-5) (Welterweight Championship)
Martin Kampmann (20-5) vs. Johny Hendricks (13-1) (Welterweight)
Francis Carmont (19-7) vs. Tom Lawlor (8-4) (Middleweight)
Nick Ring (13-1) vs. Costa Philippou (11-2) (Middleweight)
Mark Hominick (20-11) vs. Pablo Garza (11-3) (Featherweight)

Preliminary Card (FX)

Patrick Cote (17-8) vs. Alessio Sakara (15-9) (Middleweight)
Cyrille Diabate (18-8-1) vs. Chad Griggs (11-2) (Light Heavyweight)
Mark Bocek (11-4) vs. Rafael dos Anjos (17-6) (Lightweight)
Sam Stout (18-7-1) vs. John Makdessi (9-2) (Lightweight)

Preliminary Card (Facebook)

Antonio Carvalho (14-5) vs. Rodrigo Damm (10-5) (Featherweight)
Matthew Riddle (6-3) vs. John Maguire (18-4) (Welterweight)
Ivan Menjivar (24-9) vs. Azamat Gashimov (7-1) (Bantamweight)
Steven Siler (21-9) vs. Darren Elkins (14-2) (Featherweight)

Other

- GSP vs. Condit will unify the Welterweight belts.
- Kampmann vs. Hendricks a title eliminator bout. (the winner is next in line to fight for the belt)
- Fabio Maldonado was briefly linked to a bout with Cyrille Diabate at the event. However, Maldonado lost to Glover Teixeira on October 13th, 2012 at UFC 153, replacing an injured Quinton Jackson. Diabate is now slated to face Chad Griggs at the event.
- Stephen Thompson was expected to face Besam Yousef at the event. However, Thompson was forced out of the bout with a knee injury and was replaced by Matthew Riddle. Yousef was then forced out with injury, and replaced by John Maguire.

GSP > Condit (Should be a sick fight, and GSP's toughest fight to date. Condit is the epitome of a #1 contender who can legitimately win the belt, unlike other contenders who only offer 1 scary skill like boxing, wrestling, or BJJ.)
Kampmann > Hendricks (Hendricks hasn't proven anything to me yet, he won via split-decision vs. Pierce and Koscheck + lucky punch vs. Fitch. Hendricks offers the same skill set to GSP that Koscheck does.)
Carmont > Lawlor (Lawlor is kewl, but he only got on the main card cuz of Carmont, who is bigger/stronger with similar skill set.)
Philippou > Ring (Philippou is the superior boxer and has good TDD + better gas tank. Ring is basic and gases.)
Hominick > Garza (Who the fuck even knows nowadays with Hominick. Kid went on tilt after his trainer died, but I picked Yagin to beat him, which he did, and now he fights Garza, who's biggest threat is BJJ, which is where Hominick is weak.)
Sakara > Cote
Griggs > Diabate
Bocek > dos Anjos
Stout > Makdessi
Damm > Carvalho
Riddle > Maguire
Menjivar > Gashimov
Elkins > Siler

No way condit could beat GSP, at least is GSP returns in his old shape and doesnt try new things, i dont see condit avoiding the wrestlefuck.


Seeing wrestler promising more exiting fights lately GSP included is scary for betting tho, Franklin already lost a very easy fight because of that.

i wish i wrote myself a note a year ago that said "Dear Daut, do not buy into any hype that you hear on condit or against gsp. gsp is the perfect style to mash condit and condit has no chance. please just take advantage of bookies giving way better lines than previous gsps fights because he hasnt fought in 18 months and bet the house on him" unfortunately i wrote no such note because now i have lost all confidence in the bet. In the first episode of primetime gsp says "I came back to training and I wasnt the same, i was losing to guys who never challenged me before and people were looking at me like id never be the same again" dont know how i can trust in him after i hear him say that.

i will still probably bet a little on gsp, but just not gonna go buckwild at -350.


as for the other fights, the only one i have penciled at this point is sam stout. most of the others seem like the lines are close or the fight can go either way. i think stout is going to outclass makdessi who is garbage. im gonna peek around at what the twitterverse has to say but at this point i dont see any other very clear edge

^ I'd wait a few days to see if the lines shift, but if they do, I'd also take Carmont and Philippou to win.

no way condit will win this.-300 is fine imo.

im kinda with you, but their lines are just so lopsided. i guess i can see carmont winning 75%+ and philippou 70%+ but im not super confident in those odds.

if theres ever a time to capitalize on fading gsp now would be it imo. you have someone who has been dying to fight gsp whose last match was a decisive win vs a big name in nick diaz compared to someone who signed with 888poker and is doing god knows what the last few years with his free time. if gsp loses and still continues to fight all of the lines will be much lower and tougher to make plays on. i cant say that condit will win through pure fight* analysis but I think hes a pretty sick mma fighter with some nice results and the ability to finish/big gas tank. also, whenever anyone gets into gambling sponsorships it always messes up their main profession so its a nice angle to plug in when deciding to tail or fade a particular fighter

why the hell is kampmann a dogg he has looked so good

anytime the top guys start going down on themselves i see it only as a way to hype the fight up cause if he talks 100% confident the lines are gonna suck ass -- anytime gsp is like 'ya this is gonna be the toughest fight in my life' i just think 'omg he is gonna rape so hard' lol. in this case coming back from such a big injury and getting manhandled at the gym for a while should be super normal as u get rusty but he mentions that if he didn't feel ready he would call dana and cancel but he didn't...

this should be a tougher match than his last few - more strategical from both sides but gsp is gsp imo

Yea I think GSP will fuck him up. I still think it was a highly suspicious call from the judges which got Condit here, he looked really questionable against Rory Macdonald and was really close to losing a decision, knocking out Hardy isn't exactly the most impressive thing either and while his knee against Kim Dong-Hyun was super cool it's not something I see him hitting against GSP.

I'm thinking GSP might actually finish him, but that's just a feeling.

Good card overall. Rooting for Kampmann who in my opinion is one of the most exciting fighters in the welterweight division. Heart says him, brain is not decided. Other then that:

Carmont > Lawlor Carmont should win I guess but he did not look good in Sweden so I'm not all all certain about this fight.
Philippou > Ring Philippou is on a roll, not a big fan of either fighter.
Hominick > Garza Hominick should
Sakara > Cote
Griggs > Diabate
Bocek > dos Anjos
Stout > Makdessi
Damm > Carvalho
Riddle > Maguire
Menjivar > Gashimov
Elkins > Siler

All I know is that every time there has been even a slight inkling of doubt involving GSP losing, GSP has come in and destroyed whoever was put in front of him. I can't see any reason to doubt him for this fight.

"I came back to training and I wasnt the same, i was losing to guys who never challenged me before and people were looking at me like id never be the same again" dont know how i can trust in him after i hear him say that.
You can trust in him because this happening probably meant it just made him even more determined to become even better than he was before.

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Things we know about GSP returning to MMA

- GSP is one of the smartest, if not the smartest MMA fighter of all time.
- He wouldn't return to MMA after being on the sideline for 18.5 months, rehabbing his knee, if he wasn't 100% ready.
- He doesn't have to worry about money, and there's no way he felt pressure from the UFC to defend his title, especially since he is supposed to defend it at least 1 time a year and he hasn't defended it in 18.5 months and was never stripped of the title.
- It makes for a great story if he talks about "how he felt like he was at the lowest point in his career, how nobody thought he'd come back, and they saw him as damaged goods." That's the equivalent of someone being the champion for years and then losing the title, only to rebuild himself and win the title back. The audience eats sad stories like that up, and feeds off of it.
- Did you see how confident GSP looked in his promo video? When was the last time we ever saw GSP make a banana-grin smile? It was when he was in the jacuzzi with the 3 random groupies as well as another random groupie grinding on his dick in a dance club, probably hoping to get butt fucked by the champ.
- In conclusion, GSP is smart, one of the best athletes in all of MMA, adapts to every fight, doesn't worry about money, isn't being hassled to fight on a certain date, is now returning to MMA on his own free will.

p.s. I hope Condit doesn't fight dirty and do front/side kicks to the knee of GSP, which is now popular thanks to Jon Jones and I think Anderson also has done it. GSP already said that he hopes Condit tries to attack his knee, which makes me think he's been working on the fast take down to counter that.

As much as I was OK with Condit beating Diaz w/ superior cardio and slightly out scoring, if he takes the title away from GSP the same way it's gonna be sad and bad for MMA.

^ No way that would happen. GSP is too smart for that, especially since he's seen it happen to someone else. GSP never does the same mistake twice. Also, the fight is in Canada, no way GSP would lose a close decision, let alone lose to someone backpedaling the whole fight.

The only way Condit will win is if he finishes GSP within 2 rounds via TKO.

Im gonna put whats left of my sb roll after the Franklin fiasco on GSP.

Not too excited fot the card though some decent fights but nothing that gets me pumped to see it.

"The 15-year-old UG Nazi hacker known as Cosmo* or Cosmo the God was sentenced in juvenile court on Wednesday in Long Beach, California."

must be the same guy from LP 100%

I'm going to see it at the Centre Bell with a bunch of friends, should be a blast!

On November 11 2012 21:27 Oddeye wrote: I'm going to see it at the Centre Bell with a bunch of friends, should be a blast!

Take some pics and make a blog about your experience!

On November 11 2012 20:23 Zadan wrote: "The 15-year-old UG Nazi hacker known as Cosmo* or Cosmo the God was sentenced in juvenile court on Wednesday in Long Beach, California." must be the same guy from LP 100%

wat

On November 12 2012 02:36 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On November 11 2012 20:23 Zadan wrote: "The 15-year-old UG Nazi hacker known as Cosmo* or Cosmo the God was sentenced in juvenile court on Wednesday in Long Beach, California." must be the same guy from LP 100% wat

He failed at making a joke.

http://www.mmamania.com/2012/11/11/36...r-hacking-spree-that-included-ufc-com

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Have about $700 on GSP at -315 bet it a long time ago when the lines first came out. Still like it.

i hate gsp's fights tbh and his layoff tilts me quite a bit too... But i like his personality more than condit's so ill root for him newayz.

Yea no idea who I'm rooting for yet.

I don't like GSP's style, but he's such a likable person. On the other hand Condit is kind of bland, but he's such a killer in the cage it's awesome to watch. His finish vs Rory Macdonald was so awesome.


One of those fights where I won't know who I'm rooting for until the fight starts.

^ You're one of those fans who will just pick something random to hate on a fighter about.

Between now and the time both fighters walk out to the cage, Condit will be the same as always. GSP will have his awesome entrance to the cage where he's hyped up wearing his Karate* uniform (I assume this will have you rooting for Condit).

Neither fighter will do anything crazy or out of the ordinary at the weigh-ins.

On November 15 2012 19:39 PuertoRican wrote: ^ You're one of those fans who will just pick something random to hate on a fighter about. Between now and the time both fighters walk out to the cage, Condit will be the same as always. GSP will have his awesome entrance to the cage where he's hyped up wearing his Taekwondo uniform (I assume this will have you rooting for Condit). Neither fighter will do anything crazy or out of the ordinary at the weigh-ins.

lol that's not what I mean at all. I like them both equally so I have no idea who I'm rooting for. In these situations though I've found that once the action starts my instincts kind of take over and I start rooting for one or the other. It's like I subconsciously choose once the action starts without thinking about it.

I'm not going out of my way choosing someone to root for, but instinctively when punches start flying and I get really excited it happens naturally. Happens all the time when two guys I like a lot fight.

The ACL takes a very long time to be right. More than anything else it's waiting for nerve penetration and those little fuckers grow at like an inch/year. I've heard 70% recovery in strength after a year and over two years for it to be 100%.

Still gon win tho. Condit's mostly rungood imo.

On November 15 2012 21:59 Stim_Abuser wrote: In these situations though I've found that once the action starts my instincts kind of take over and I start rooting for one or the other. It's like I subconsciously choose once the action starts without thinking about it.

Haha me too. It's impossible for me to watch a fight objectively, and I have discovered that my subconscious is one racist bastard.

On November 15 2012 21:59 Stim_Abuser wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 19:39 PuertoRican wrote: ^ You're one of those fans who will just pick something random to hate on a fighter about. Between now and the time both fighters walk out to the cage, Condit will be the same as always. GSP will have his awesome entrance to the cage where he's hyped up wearing his Taekwondo uniform (I assume this will have you rooting for Condit). Neither fighter will do anything crazy or out of the ordinary at the weigh-ins. lol that's not what I mean at all. I like them both equally so I have no idea who I'm rooting for. In these situations though I've found that once the action starts my instincts kind of take over and I start rooting for one or the other. It's like I subconsciously choose once the action starts without thinking about it. I'm not going out of my way choosing someone to root for, but instinctively when punches start flying and I get really excited it happens naturally. Happens all the time when two guys I like a lot fight.

SAME. condit has been one of my favorite fighters for years but i would love to see GSP vs anderson and to defend his belt vs others. if i bet i will obviously be rooting for gsp to win, but if i dont i really dont know what ill root for yet.

money on condit and kampmann

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On November 11 2012 21:27 Oddeye wrote: I'm going to see it at the Centre Bell with a bunch of friends, should be a blast!

Still haven't gotten my ticket Alex V_V


If I had a dime to my name I would put it on GSP even at 80% health and -350 odds. GSP is a very modest guy and always down plays just how hard he smashes people in training so I wouldn't put much stock into his interview.

GSP looked tiny at the weigh-ins. He's only weighing 188 on fight night. ()

This stands opposed to his 191-193 fighting weight vs koscheck and whatnot. I think they're doing it specifically to take care of his 83-85% knee.

does anybody else rarely root for a fighter? 90%+ i just enjoy the fight without picking a favorite.

UFC 154 weigh-in photos: http://mmajunkie.com/news/31666/ufc-1...os-an-mmajunkie-com-image-gallery.mma


Georges St-Pierre (170) vs. Carlos Condit (169)
Johny Hendricks (171) vs. Martin Kampmann (171)
Tom Lawlor (184) vs. Francis Carmont (185)
Constantinos Philippou (185) vs. Nick Ring (184)
Mark Hominick (145) vs. Pablo Garza (145)
Patrick Cote (185) vs. Alessio Sakara (186)
Cyrille Diabate (206) vs. Chad Griggs (205)
Mark Bocek (156) vs. Rafael dos Anjos (155)
John Makdessi (155) vs. Sam Stout (154)
Antonio Carvalho (145) vs. Rodrigo Damm (145)
John Maguire (171) vs. Matt Riddle (170)
Azamat Gashimov (135) vs. Ivan Menjivar (135)
Darren Elkins (145) vs. Steven Siler (145)

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LMFAO
HAHAHAHAHAAHA

All 3 Primetime episodes are available in the OP.

On November 16 2012 18:01 Will wrote: GSP looked tiny at the weigh-ins. He's only weighing 188 on fight night. () This stands opposed to his 191-193 fighting weight vs koscheck and whatnot. I think they're doing it specifically to take care of his 83-85% knee.

ROFL @ 83-85%... its good that you gave a 2% margin or error lol

god damn i got tense just watching that last primetime - i hope the fight is epic and not a one sided bashing

On November 16 2012 15:30 2c0ntent wrote: "I love youuuu Rogan!!"

lol who said that.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/11/17...u-ufc-154-fight-canceled-bocek-vs-dos

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Awesome final ep of the primetime. Have a bet on GSP so im probably gonna root for him, but i wouldn't mind it very much if Condit won because i like him also. Not bad.

Raaah I'm so stoked ^^ Can't wait for Condit-GSP!

Ok here we go

GSP > Condit
Hendricks > Kampmann

going to bet on gsp

and hoping kampmann wins!!

On November 17 2012 11:21 dUUd_ wrote: http://www.mmafighting.com/2012/11/17...u-ufc-154-fight-canceled-bocek-vs-dos

Fuck, that sucks. I was wanting to see Philippou smash Ring in the face.

Since this card has 12 fights instead of the original 13, they will have 1 less fight on the Facebook card, making it 3 instead of 4.
They should move 1 more fight up to the main card and make it the normal 6 fights on the main card, instead of the 5 they have.

I don't understand how they decided to only have 5 fights on the main card with 13 fights, when the average number of fights is 6. In one of the last 2 ppv cards, they had 7 fights on the main card.

The lack of a 6th fight on the main card for UFC 154 is what kept me from watching it at a bar or ordering it with friends, now I'm going to watch it on the internet like usual.

Did some last minute thinking, watched 3 recent condit fights last night and placed bets on gsp to win -325 and gsp by decision -150. Very confident in him now.

Condit cant stop a takedown to save his life. He has been taken down pretty easily by every single opponent who has tried to get him down and has any wrestling ability. Even if GSP has ring rust, I dont think it will show in his takedown ability. If anything he will be a little more hesitant and defensive on the feet and on the ground. I would say theres a 5% chance condit gets a flash KO, a 5% chance GSP just isnt the same and a small chance GSP gets reinjured during the fight. Overall I think GSP is probably around -700ish here. Im not going to lay huge money on him just cause i am a bit nervous and its in my nature to pussy out, but I wouldnt fault anyone for betting massive on him and being very confident.

also bet on kampmann/hendricks going to decision at -150.

considering betting cote (probably a pass cause he sucks) and rafael dos anjos, but RDA's line has gone way up so if i see it hit -150 ill grab it.

I'll put $10 on Sakara to win, if you're down. Cote is -270 right now.

Moneybookers or PayPal.

On November 17 2012 14:39 Daut wrote: Did some last minute thinking, watched 3 recent condit fights last night and placed bets on gsp to win -325 and gsp by decision -150. Very confident in him now. Condit cant stop a takedown to save his life. He has been taken down pretty easily by every single opponent who has tried to get him down and has any wrestling ability. Even if GSP has ring rust, I dont think it will show in his takedown ability. If anything he will be a little more hesitant and defensive on the feet and on the ground. I would say theres a 5% chance condit gets a flash KO, a 5% chance GSP just isnt the same and a small chance GSP gets reinjured during the fight. Overall I think GSP is probably around -700ish here. Im not going to lay huge money on him just cause i am a bit nervous and its in my nature to pussy out, but I wouldnt fault anyone for betting massive on him and being very confident. also bet on kampmann/hendricks going to decision at -150. considering betting cote (probably a pass cause he sucks) and rafael dos anjos, but RDA's line has gone way up so if i see it hit -150 ill grab it.

Another thing people don't seem to take into account with this match up is how good GSP's top game is. It's not just his wrestling, but he also has some of the best guard passing in MMA. I think he will take Condit down and be able to pass his guard and mostly be out of danger of subs/sweeps.

The only thing that gives Condit hope is his will. GSP breaks guys a lot by dominating them, but I don't think Condit will ever give up and he'll be coming to take GSP's head off the whole 25 minutes, so I think that gives him a better shot than -700. Still think -325 is an easy bet though.

canada cup best 500$ tourney ever or ufc dammit whats with the stupid timing pokerstars

Due to the Philippou/Ring match being canceled, the Facebook prelims will start 35 minutes later, according to the UFC website.

Facebook prelims = 17:35 LP.net / 3:35pm PST / 6:35pm EST: http://www.facebook.com/UFC/app_247211121995467

The FX prelims start at the regular time of 5pm EST / 8pm EST

Sick submission by Menjivar!

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On November 10 2012 19:34 PuertoRican wrote: GSP > Condit (Should be a sick fight, and GSP's toughest fight to date. Condit is the epitome of a #1 contender who can legitimately win the belt, unlike other contenders who only offer 1 scary skill like boxing, wrestling, or BJJ.) Kampmann > Hendricks (Hendricks hasn't proven anything to me yet, he won via split-decision vs. Pierce and Koscheck + lucky punch vs. Fitch. Hendricks offers the same skill set to GSP that Koscheck does.) Carmont > Lawlor (Lawlor is kewl, but he only got on the main card cuz of Carmont, who is bigger/stronger with similar skill set.) Philippou > Ring (Philippou is the superior boxer and has good TDD + better gas tank. Ring is basic and gases.) Hominick > Garza (Who the fuck even knows nowadays with Hominick. Kid went on tilt after his trainer died, but I picked Yagin to beat him, which he did, and now he fights Garza, who's biggest threat is BJJ, which is where Hominick is weak.) Griggs > Diabate Bocek > dos Anjos Stout > Makdessi Damm > Carvalho Riddle > Maguire Menjivar > Gashimov Elkins > Siler

What time will GSP / Condit start? Main event is usually 9 PM PST, right?

On November 17 2012 18:38 TheHuHu3 wrote: What time will GSP / Condit start? Main event is usually 9 PM PST, right?

Probably before that, since there's only 5 fights in the main card. The main card starts at 7pm PST, then each fight is 15 minutes at most, plus another 5-8 minutes of bullshit in between each fight.

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On November 10 2012 19:34 PuertoRican wrote: GSP > Condit (Should be a sick fight, and GSP's toughest fight to date. Condit is the epitome of a #1 contender who can legitimately win the belt, unlike other contenders who only offer 1 scary skill like boxing, wrestling, or BJJ.) Kampmann > Hendricks (Hendricks hasn't proven anything to me yet, he won via split-decision vs. Pierce and Koscheck + lucky punch vs. Fitch. Hendricks offers the same skill set to GSP that Koscheck does.) Carmont > Lawlor (Lawlor is kewl, but he only got on the main card cuz of Carmont, who is bigger/stronger with similar skill set.) Hominick > Garza (Who the fuck even knows nowadays with Hominick. Kid went on tilt after his trainer died, but I picked Yagin to beat him, which he did, and now he fights Garza, who's biggest threat is BJJ, which is where Hominick is weak.) Bocek > dos Anjos Sakara > Cote Sakara had Cote owned, then he threw 4-5 hammer-fists to the back of Cote's head when he was on top. Sakara lost by DQ. The referee was to blame in many people's opinion. Griggs > Diabate epitome of an "lol fight". Grigg walks into a stiff jab, scramble on the floor, gg... Stout > Makdessi great showing by Makdessi, he raped Stout with jabs. Damm > Carvalho terrible fight by both Riddle > Maguire not a great fight from either, Riddle just did more for the win. Menjivar > Gashimov sick submission by Menjivar. Elkins > Siler rape by Elkins.

Good call by Dan Mirgliotta. Optimally he should of stopped it after 2-3 of the back of the head punches and took a point and seen if Cote could continue, but at least he didn't give Sakara the win for that shit.

On November 17 2012 20:51 Stim_Abuser wrote: Good call by Dan Mirgliotta. Optimally he should of stopped it after 2-3 of the back of the head punches and took a point and seen if Cote could continue, but at least he didn't give Sakara the win for that shit.

Good call? He stopped the fight after the damage was done.

Sakara had Cote owned, then he threw those stupid hammer-fists to the back of the head.

A good referee would have said STOP IT, just like what happened in the Big Nog vs. Mir fight, where Big Nog had Mir raped, and then was told to stop hitting the back of the head and wasn't sure what to do next, instead of hot the side of the head.

Forgot to add: the referee never gave any warnings that anything was wrong. The judges are the ones who gave the fight to Cote, since Dan never waived off the fight, and it left us wondering what was happening. Dan probably felt like an idiot after the fight was over for not reacting in time.

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Main Card: http://www.vipboxsports.eu/boxing/713...ain-card-only-live-stream-online.html

lol fucking Rogan.

Hominick is done. Garza looked much improved in his stand up though.

The only way Hominick isn't fired after 4 losses in a row, is if he gets the Steve Cantwell treatment, who got cut after 5 losses.
Hominick is still a draw in Canada, dunno how Cantwell lasted so long.

im just tuning in, dint see first fight. But cut hominick imo, kid had a good run

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Damn, my picks are not going in my favor tonight.

I never give Dos Anjos any love though, so that's my fault.

to lawlor for hustle imo


~~stolen

heh fucking links dont work

Lawlow vs. Carmont was hard to judge. I like striking, which Carmont was slightly better than Lawlor in this fight, but not as good as usual.

Lawlor had multiple TD's that failed.

Main Card: http://www.vipboxsports.eu/boxing/713...ain-card-only-live-stream-online.html

Cant wait for this one. Links work fine for me. Go Kampmann.
Thought that was the wrong decision with lawlor fight but what do I know.

holy fuck that sucks

lol

BOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Fuck, I feel hella bad for Martin Kampmann...

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What a KO

line up to -345 now

i think without a decision condit will win this

heh blood will stop the fight tho

well that was quick. congrats gsp

literally a blood bath

condit lookin like a stunt double in dawn of the dead

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

OH BABY THIS IS WHAT IM TALKIN ABOUT SHIT IS REAL NOW LOL LETS GO GSP LETS GO CONDIT

Why the fuck didn't Carlos keep the pressure on him... WTF

yeah condit can take him, he just doesnt do his shit like with nick d

the rest of the fight will be greg jackson mode now...

this fight is not disappointing

HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLYYYY.

That recovery was amazing. Maybe one, maybe two people in the world could recover that quickly after getting his head knocked off.

haha just watching anderson reactions is more interesting than gsp's dry humping

condit u gotta go for the throat

condit its the last round

ukhanddodit

mustache-machida is amused!

goddamit gsp/jackson bullshit killed my boner

watching this he wont last 3 rounds vs Silva.

Inb4Conditwins.jpg@riggedjudges.com

On November 17 2012 23:36 whamm! wrote: goddamit gsp/jackson bullshit killed my boner watching this he wont last 3 rounds vs Silva.

iirc gsp was like +200 or higher when pinnacle released a line on those two, id imagine it would be higher after he was exposed with that kick

even though gsp won that 100% i still had some doubt after what ive seen in the last three yrs of rigged ufc decisions

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On November 17 2012 23:47 2c0ntent wrote: lol in montreal, they'd legit have a riot on their hands

id steal popcorn during the riot, good timing for it

Nice fight. Not GSP's best performance, he fought like he had ring-rung, which he admitted to in the post-fight interview.

His striking not being as good as usual is the main thing that stood out.

I don't think he'll take the Silva fight, he would get raped vs. Silva's striking game and ability to micro away from GSP's speed of striking.

what a fucken fight, best ufc of the year so far.

On November 17 2012 12:12 JonnyCosMo wrote: Ok here we go GSP > Condit Hendricks > Kampmann

wp again sir

^ of course he's canadian

That was such a great third round. The fight was good, but the third round was awesome. It's incredible how quickly GSP recovered from that kick. It caught him completely off guard!

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$70,000 for each bonus

Fight of the Night: Georges St. Pierre vs. Carlos Condit
Knockout of the Night: Johny Hendricks
Submission of the Night: Ivan Menjivar

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Post-Fight Tweets

Nick Diaz via twitter: I am not impressed by your performance @GeorgesStPierre
https://twitter.com/nickdiaz209

Jake Ellenberger: I would put my @ufc career on the line for a fight with Johnny Hendricks. @danawhite
https://twitter.com/EllenbergerMMA

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Other

Johny Hendricks was asked about a title shot during the post-fight press conference, Hendricks said: ...I would love a title shot, it's hard to get one... ...well, I cleaned out the division...

Condit's eyebrow raised real quick after he heard Hendricks say that, as they were sitting shoulder-to-shoulder.

imo condit respected GSP waay too much. he shouldve pressed the fight since no matter what he did he would be taken down anyway. what he did was just counter and wait for GSP to pick him apart. fight could've been a lot more epic

wow that hendricks KO. nice bet me to go to decision

On November 18 2012 00:17 PuertoRican wrote: Other Johny Hendricks was asked about a title shot during the post-fight press conference, Hendricks said: ...I would love a title shot, it's hard to get one... ...well, I cleaned out the division... Condit's eyebrow raised real quick after he heard Hendricks say that, as they were sitting shoulder-to-shoulder.

isn't it unfair AS vs GSP? AS is like 2 times bigger lol

i still cant believe condit is a 3:1 dog against gsp. Who even remembers how GSP fight before this bout lol. Too bad im a broke college student, woulda bet on condit anyday with those odds.

On November 18 2012 08:10 flounder44 wrote: i still cant believe condit is a 3:1 dog against gsp. Who even remembers how GSP fight before this bout lol. Too bad im a broke college student, woulda bet on condit anyday with those odds.

and you woulda lost money... gj

explain to me how condit did not look like a 3:1 or worse dog vs gsp tonight? because of 1 kick that landed in 25 minutes?

On November 18 2012 08:16 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 08:10 flounder44 wrote: i still cant believe condit is a 3:1 dog against gsp. Who even remembers how GSP fight before this bout lol. Too bad im a broke college student, woulda bet on condit anyday with those odds. and you woulda lost money... gj explain to me how condit did not look like a 3:1 or worse dog vs gsp tonight? because of 1 kick that landed in 25 minutes?

Because there was a real possibility that the fight was going to be stopped because of bleeding? (Or hematomas/GSP losing vision/etc)

cosmo, you can argue GSP took more dmg that fight. He didnt really do much to condit despite having dominant position.

edit: in one of interviews gsp said he doesnt have the ko power of a ko artist or the wrestling of chael, or accuracy of anderson. He relies purely on what is given to him, hardwork, and a biiig hart similar to frankie edgar.

Pure stand up wise I say GSP was getting the better of Condit, but he bruises easily on the face, he took him down at will, he controlled the fight standing and on the ground

but I guess your right Condit won, I wish i bet on him!

you should go all in 72o pf. They win as well

lol @ condit

looks like UFC really did a good job on hyping this fight.

GSP > Condit

it's not even close.

-

On November 18 2012 14:20 kaboom wrote: lol @ condit looks like UFC really did a good job on hyping this fight. GSP > Condit it's not even close.

Location: Canada

On November 18 2012 14:20 kaboom wrote: lol @ condit looks like UFC really did a good job on hyping this fight. GSP > Condit it's not even close.

True.

But, I still have Condit in my top 3 in the division, along with GSP and Rory MacDonald.

It was easy to hype Condit because he has the sickest finishing rate in the UFC, had a similar trainer, former WEC Welterweight champ, and current UFC Interim champ who beat the UFC bad-boy.

Watching Condit fight reminded me of Stephan Bonnar. They both have similar wild styles, and are decent at BJJ. Both aren't fast with the striking, but are gritty and love to be in a slobberknocker fight.

hendricks > condit
rory macdonald > condit
gsp > condit
kampann > condit

guy is all hype

On November 18 2012 14:38 2c0ntent wrote: btw Didn't Rogan mention that they weren't putting enswell/ice on the right side of GSP's face at the end of round one or two? He said it like 20 times "Wtf they doing, its going to swell up and hurt his peripheral vision" lol then a kick flys up and almost loses him his belt

I think it's the other way around. He was talking about putting endswell on the lump from the kick in round 3. I think anyway.

Condit is a beast. Saying he is all hype is completely retarded. GSP crushed fitch/alves/koscheck/shields more convincingly and all those guys have been ranked #2 at 170 at some point. Condit is still at best a 3-1 dog vs GSP (probably more like 5-1) but virtually nobody at 170 has much of a shot vs GSP.

1. Sam Stout holds the UFC lightweight record for most significant strikes landed (792).
2. Cyrille Diabate earned his first submission win inside the Octagon.
3. Georges St. Pierre was knocked down for just the second time in his 19-fight UFC career.
4. Johny Hendricks has won three fights in a row against Top 10 opponents.
5. St. Pierre tied Matt Hughes' record for the most title defenses in UFC welterweight history (seven).
6. Stout just tied Jon Fitch as having been involved in the most decisions in UFC history (12).
7. Canadian fighters went 5-3 on the Montreal card.
8. Patrick Cote vs. Alessio Sakara was the first UFC fight to end in a disqualification since Erick Silva vs. Carlo Prater at UFC 142 in Jan. 2012.
9. All three of Chad Griggs' professional losses are by way of submission.
10. Mark Hominick has lost four consecutive UFC fights.
11. Patrick Cote earned his first UFC victory since July 5, 2008.
12. Johny Hendricks has won "Knockout of the Night" in three of his past five UFC bouts.
13. Darren Elkins is undefeated (4-0) in the UFC featherweight division and 5-1 overall under the UFC banner.
14. Martin Kampmann was knocked out for the first time in his mixed martial arts (MMA) career.
15. UFC 154 drew an attendance of 17,249 for a live gate of $3,143,000.
16. Carlos Condit has won post-fight bonuses in four of his last five UFC fights.
17. In the 11 events the UFC has held in Canada, Canadian fighters are at 33-32 when facing opponents from other countries.
18. St. Pierre, Condit, Hendricks and Ivan Menjivar were each awarded $70,000 post-fight bonuses.
19. The total fight time of the 12-bout card was two hours and 17 minutes.
20. GSP has fought 125 consecutive minutes without stopping an opponent.

i am always intrigued by fighters that have virtually no wrestling yet can succeed at the highest levels. As of right now that list is 3: anderson, condit and nick diaz. nate diaz as well i suppose.

Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. He relies on figuring out his opponents tendencies, stopping their takedowns and mauling them when they make a mistake.

condit is a good striker, but hes not a straight killer like anderson or the best boxer like nick. he occasionally gets a knockout, but the majority of his wins are on the ground. he has awful takedown defense, but is MUCH better than anderson off his back. although their guards are probably similar in terms of submission skill, condit's guard game is way better because he lands strikes, prevents people from passing him, can get back to his feet, forces scrambles and has great sweeps. in the postfight presser GSP made an amazing point: even though condit almost never actually gets a takedown he is in top position the majority of the time he is on the ground. hes very tricky and good at baiting people into making mistakes. so while he has no wrestling he has great success on the ground.

nick diaz has his own unique style as well. but what makes nick diaz worse than the other two fighters is that his style is less forcing. with the exception of gsp, fitch and possibly rory, i would favor condit over any welterweight in a 5 round fight. along with the aforementioned 3 guys, i think nick would also be an underdog to koscheck, pierce, maia, and maybe even hendricks (not sure if he can stuff all of nicks sub attempts as well as the others). the problem is that he isnt dangerous enough in a short period of time on the feet and its just too hard to submit elite fighters off your back. being able to get back up, sweep and do damage with strikes off your back is far more important than being able to armbar non elite guys well.


anyway, my point is that condit is a beast and in elite company with his skills. there isnt a single person in the division who can stop GSPs takedowns. what made condit an interesting fight (besides the knockdown) was that condit has more tools off his back than basically everyone else in the division. hes a true hero

Dos Santos?

oh diaz > condit as well.

what a silly fight that was.

sure he got more "strikes" off but seriously, the guy ran around the cage the entire 5 rounds, literally ran.

It's one thing to be agile and create space and angles to counter, but what condit did in that fight was just silly.

look at all his fights leading up to gsp.

he beats ellengberg by split decision lol
he lost to martin kampann
he beat an inexperienced rory who still was dominating him the entire fight up to the third where over-confidence and inexperince most likely played a big part in the loss
knocked out dan hardy and kim who aren't elite contenders
then he runs around the ring for 25 mins vs diaz to get title shot vs gsp....

he got a really akward combination off and caught gsp with one kick during a 25 minute fight that he was dominated on the ground and the stand up... that's supposed to mean something?

On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back.

I completely disagree with this.
Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much.
I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage.
Condit is not even a black belt on bjj.

Who's fighting GSP next??

this was the easiest shove on an mma fighter i've ever seen in my life. FREE MONIES!!!!

kinda like the silva vs shonen 2 where silva was pretty underrated due to last fights fluke.

On November 19 2012 06:39 Raidern wrote: Dos Santos?

nah i dont consider him or aldo to have no wrestling. both have great takedowns and are nearly impossible to take down.

On November 19 2012 07:03 kaboom wrote: oh diaz > condit as well. what a silly fight that was. sure he got more "strikes" off but seriously, the guy ran around the cage the entire 5 rounds, literally ran. It's one thing to be agile and create space and angles to counter, but what condit did in that fight was just silly. look at all his fights leading up to gsp. he beats ellengberg by split decision lol he lost to martin kampann he beat an inexperienced rory who still was dominating him the entire fight up to the third where over-confidence and inexperince most likely played a big part in the loss knocked out dan hardy and kim who aren't elite contenders then he runs around the ring for 25 mins vs diaz to get title shot vs gsp.... he got a really akward combination off and caught gsp with one kick during a 25 minute fight that he was dominated on the ground and the stand up... that's supposed to mean something?

if you rewatch those fights youd probably be surprised...

-he got dropped by ellenberger early twice (which happens to literally everyone the guy has fought in the UFC), survived miraculously and came back to dominate the last ~8 minutes of the fight.

-i thought he won the kampmann fight. condit did way more the whole fight except kampmann just kept taking him down over and over and attempted more submissions in the first round. http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/887 however like gsp said, condit ended up on top by sweeping him quite a bit.

-rory did not dominate him at all. rory got a couple takedowns each round and actually did very little besides that. http://hosteddb.fightmetric.com/fights/index/2805
do those stats from the first 2 rounds look anything like domination? getting outstriked 2.5:1 over first 2 rounds but getting on top a few times and staying there long enough to win the rounds


condit is elite. if you look at the gsp fight objectively and take away the carlos knockdown, it was pretty equal on the feet overall and gsp basically got a bunch of takedowns, landed a couple nice elbows and did just stayed busy enough to not get stood up for 15 minutes. carlos did quite a bit of damage from his back and stopped almost all of gsps offense. there were no sub attempts, no dominant positions and very few big strikes landed outside of the couple elbows.

On November 19 2012 09:07 Minion wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back. I completely disagree with this. Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much. I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage. Condit is not even a black belt on bjj.

anderson gets the occasional sub off his back, but the usual story is that he gets taken down and he holds onto his opponent with a body triangle and prays the fight gets stood up.

-henderson took him down and he stayed there the whole round just clutching on doing nothing
-lutter took him down, passed and mounted him then gassed out horribly and died. granted anderson did have a nice sweep but the sub was vs a lutter who couldnt even breathe at that point
-leites took him down and he needed the ref to stand it back up to get to his feet
-sonnen took him down a few times and he never got back up once. and in the 2nd fight sonnen mounted him and anderson just laid there holding onto him waiting for the round to end. imagine if MMA didnt have round restarts and it just tried to simulate a fight. anderson NEVER would have gotten out of that mount and sonnen would have been on top of him in mount looking for a sub and landing some strikes forever.

anderson is tricky and very very smart. if he notices someone is making a mistake he will grab a submission. but really his bottom game is very weak compared to condit and diaz because its mostly passive and hes very bad at getting back to his feet from the position. but he does have MUCH MUCH better takedown defense than both of those guys

one thing i didnt mention that helps your case is the illegal upkick on okami. that was beautiful, just an amazing strike from that position. granted i dont think that helps him if someone passes to his half guard or anything, but it is a weapon that he should be allowed to use. it being illegal is just stupid.

but basically i do think anderson probably has better submissions off his back than condit, i think its just nearly impossible to submit an elite opponent off your back so its kind of a moot point. if the guy on top doesnt make mistakes you should not be able to submit him when hes able to punch you and you arent wearing a gi. it sucks but thats reality in mma today, so i just dont think andersons skills off his back are all that relevant

Well it's really hard to submit people no matter what position you're in if they don't make a mistake. I get your point though.

However, I think it was Eddie Bravo who talked about pulling guard and stated that it wasn't enough to have a good guard to get away with it, it has to be downright sick good. Case in point would be someone like Werdum who obviously had no chance vs Fedor except for "pulling guard" (or jumping on his ass and hope Fedor would follow). Dude had the same strategy vs Overeem who by almost anyone would be ranked top3 in the world right now and if he had just got Overeem in his guard he'd have a fairly good chance.

I think the problem with the guard in MMA is that you'll have to be really, really sick to be able to get away with playing it and even then most people will just go "fuck this, I'm outta here" and stand up.

I think Anderson recognises this and since he's such a sicko standing he'll just stall people out rather then going for subs (Sonnen fight excluded since he ran out of time and had to go for something, although he was fishing for that triangle for a while). I'll bet a lot of money that if he fought someone like Tyrone Spong he'd be pulling guard like someone who owns 10 gis and wears a damn rashguard to weddings.

It's just that most people have to good top game no days. Why would anyone train the guard? If you're a striker, TDD is better and if you're a wrestler you won't end up on your ass much anyway. That leaves BJJ-people but since they can't dictate where the fight will be going without a decent takedown game anyway they'll end up on top on the ground more then not in either case. Also, I guess top game is less variance then bottom since there's less risk of some fluke elbow cutting you etc.

I was surprised at how good Condit was off his back. He reminded me of Miguel Torres, with the good strikes and sub attempts.

I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore.

I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely.

On November 19 2012 15:10 KeanuReaver wrote: I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore. I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely.

In your post: Someone confirming he has never done full-contact martial arts. (Or is just generally bad at strategies)

Fighting is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Unbelievably exhausting. I'd imagine most people would guess they have cardio for 2.5-3 minutes at the rate
the UFC fighters fight. They don't. Not even close.

You tell me one good reason why the best (no-rules) stand-up striker in the world (period) should expand ridiculous amounts of energy
to energy inefficiently counter someone's G'n'P from inside his guard when he is notoriously good at neutralizing someone's G'n'P from inside his guard.

The fight will be stood up at the end of the round. Even if it's the final round you will have a worse shot at escaping or advancing from bottom guard if you didn't just exhaust yourself.

One good reason please.

On November 19 2012 15:40 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 15:10 KeanuReaver wrote: I'm sure I'm minority here but I kinda feel like Silva's grappling off of his back is really overrated. I get that he's ok with stalling out and standing, but there's just so much you can do off of your back from your guard or half-guard that not doing so is too much wasted potential to simply ignore. I think it's something of a misconception to think of your guard as looking to take advantage of your opponents mistake. Rather, you should be constantly attacking and chaining together techniques to FORCE your opponent into a mistake, then take advantage of that. There's just so much you can do, and so much of it chains together so nicely. In your post: Someone confirming he has never done full-contact martial arts. (Or is just generally bad at strategies) Fighting is exhausting. Absolutely exhausting. Unbelievably exhausting. I'd imagine most people would guess they have cardio for 2.5-3 minutes at the rate the UFC fighters fight. They don't. Not even close. You tell me one good reason why the best (no-rules) stand-up striker in the world (period) should expand ridiculous amounts of energy to energy inefficiently counter someone's G'n'P from inside his guard when he is notoriously good at neutralizing someone's G'n'P from inside his guard. The fight will be stood up at the end of the round. Even if it's the final round you will have a worse shot at escaping or advancing from bottom guard if you didn't just exhaust yourself. One good reason please.

Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was. I probably lack the experience of many here because of 12+ years of knee problems (and other health problems I don't care to get into) but I've trained with plenty of competitive grapplers and amateur/professional fighters and am currently rehabbing at XCMMA so I can start competitive grappling again.

If elevating your hips and looking for various grips/guard systems/attacks is exhausting to the point that you couldn't even do 2.5-3min of it vs someone you're supposed to completely outclass on the ground (as Silva should vs anyone he's fought against outside of maia, if his ground game hype is to be believed) then I don't really know what to tell you.

The reason you expend the energy is to win. Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world. In other words, he should outclass someone like lutter/Sonnen to the point that he should be able to do whatever the hell he wants against him. This isn't some ridiculously exhausting thing, this is exercising a sport you've competed in for so long that you're among the very best in the world vs inferior competition. A typical good grappling class is 1 1/2 hours long, with half an hour devoted to live rolling...that's just for students.

I don't even know what you're talking about, tbh :/. A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/

edit: On top of that, there are a ton of attacks that are useful for someone that intends to win with his striking. Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage. Someone as good as A.Silva is supposed to be off of his back shouldn't be alright with conceding vast swaths of a round or even an entire round just because he's worried that using an advantage might make him a little less able to use a different advantage...especially given how much judging variance 3 and 5 round fights create.

adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him.

theres a reason why i think jones finishes anderson in the first round, its because he would pass his guard and sub him immediately. its also the reason i think GSP isnt drawing dead vs anderson. in any given round i think theres a probably about a 75% chance GSP takes anderson down before he gets KOed. so obviously it isnt likely he wins a decision, (.75^5)=23%, but i do think gsp would be able to pass his guard and has maybe a 5-10% chance in any given round to submit him. its not a lot but it does give him a much better chance than just grinding out a decision.

i'd take a loan to allin on top of my own money to allin on Anderson vs GSP. GSP will eat a knee when he tries that greg jackson shit since that's the only thing Silva will be looking out for. AS is too long and tall for him

On November 19 2012 11:58 Daut wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 09:07 Minion wrote:   On November 19 2012 05:31 Daut wrote: Anderson has great takedown defense, but despite his few awesome finishes hes pretty worthless of his back. condit is MUCH better than anderson off his back. I completely disagree with this. Anderson is sick good from his back. Maybe you think Condit is better cause we don't see Anderson on his back much. I remember Anderson from his back only 3 times ( Lutter, Sonnen x2), 2 he won by triangle and the other he took no damage. Condit is not even a black belt on bjj. anderson gets the occasional sub off his back, but the usual story is that he gets taken down and he holds onto his opponent with a body triangle and prays the fight gets stood up. -henderson took him down and he stayed there the whole round just clutching on doing nothing -lutter took him down, passed and mounted him then gassed out horribly and died. granted anderson did have a nice sweep but the sub was vs a lutter who couldnt even breathe at that point -leites took him down and he needed the ref to stand it back up to get to his feet -sonnen took him down a few times and he never got back up once. and in the 2nd fight sonnen mounted him and anderson just laid there holding onto him waiting for the round to end. imagine if MMA didnt have round restarts and it just tried to simulate a fight. anderson NEVER would have gotten out of that mount and sonnen would have been on top of him in mount looking for a sub and landing some strikes forever. anderson is tricky and very very smart. if he notices someone is making a mistake he will grab a submission. but really his bottom game is very weak compared to condit and diaz because its mostly passive and hes very bad at getting back to his feet from the position. but he does have MUCH MUCH better takedown defense than both of those guys one thing i didnt mention that helps your case is the illegal upkick on okami. that was beautiful, just an amazing strike from that position. granted i dont think that helps him if someone passes to his half guard or anything, but it is a weapon that he should be allowed to use. it being illegal is just stupid. but basically i do think anderson probably has better submissions off his back than condit, i think its just nearly impossible to submit an elite opponent off your back so its kind of a moot point. if the guy on top doesnt make mistakes you should not be able to submit him when hes able to punch you and you arent wearing a gi. it sucks but thats reality in mma today, so i just dont think andersons skills off his back are all that relevant

Speaking of strikes from the bottom it should be pointed out that the triangle vs Lutter was set up via a big up kick, and the triangle vs sonnen was set up from a very nice punch from the bottom.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was.

There is an absolutely ridiculous difference between the endurance required for BJJ and the endurance required for MMA.

I could grapple for at least an hour but I'd never last 5 minutes against a competent opponent simply because of my training regiment.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world.

Excuse me what is this nonsense? By whom? Never have I heard of anyone even suggesting that he is remotely competitive in BJJ outside the octagon.
Not even when only discussing BJJuteiros who have competed in MMA do people list him.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage.

All of those things are so easily negated by a well rounded 2012 fighter that it's not even funny. I don't even know what you're saying.
This isn't BJJ. You seem to be forgetting that this isn't BJJ. You don't get to calmly and decisively attempt all those things, you're being punched in the face,
you're breathing heavily, you're taking body shots, you're worrying about being passed because you're sweaty as hell.

On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/

Even if I gave you the premise that he wasn't the best striker and that he was in fact top 10 in BJJ (which he is most certainly not even close to being)
it'd still be a piss poor strategy to expand energy inefficiently from an inferior position if you're sublime at negating the opponent from it.

On November 19 2012 17:16 Daut wrote: adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him.

And you're "adding to Keanu's post" because you do not realize that attempting submissions etc from guard when you're in the sweatiest scenarios possible
is an excellent method of having your guard passed? And by your logic putting you at a real risk of being finished?

Nobody in this thread, at least not me, is suggesting that Anderson seek out being on his back.

as much as I like GSP

fighting AS would be no doubt a very bad fight for him.

but what a sick fucken hero if he wins, GOAT and he will be a legend for the rest of time.

oh didn't see daut's post.

I have no idea what your talking about, Rory looked like he was on another level in his fight vs condit until that third round, MMA is not a statistical game, there's much much more to it than stats. If Rory and Condit were to rematch now, I have no doubt in my mind that Rory will completely outclass him.

And yea really confused about how you think gsp vs condit was even, that fight was not even close lol.

Condit is just a striker with insane conditioning, his camp uses his skillsets very well which is why he's had the success he's had so far (Note: Nick Diaz fight, what a fucken lol gameplan but hey it worked)

He's also got a very large frame for a welterweight which is one of the primary reasons why he's so effective from the guard.

On November 19 2012 19:29 taco wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Meh, I probably started full contact martial arts (specifically, BJJ) before most here even knew what BJJ was. There is an absolutely ridiculous difference between the endurance required for BJJ and the endurance required for MMA. I could grapple for at least an hour but I'd never last 5 minutes against a competent opponent simply because of my training regiment.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Anderson Silva has been described as top 10 in the world at BJJ. Top 10, in the world. Excuse me what is this nonsense? By whom? Never have I heard of anyone even suggesting that he is remotely competitive in BJJ outside the octagon. Not even when only discussing BJJuteiros who have competed in MMA do people list him.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: Obviously there are tons of sweeps, multiple ways to take the back, even a simple collar tie is a supremely useful tool for getting back to your feet from your back especially when you can inch up the cage. All of those things are so easily negated by a well rounded 2012 fighter that it's not even funny. I don't even know what you're saying. This isn't BJJ. You seem to be forgetting that this isn't BJJ. You don't get to calmly and decisively attempt all those things, you're being punched in the face, you're breathing heavily, you're taking body shots, you're worrying about being passed because you're sweaty as hell.   On November 19 2012 16:12 KeanuReaver wrote: A top tier professional athlete and supposed top 10 in the world BJJ fighter shouldn't try to use his BJJ vs inferior grapplers because he'll exhaust himself? what :/ Even if I gave you the premise that he wasn't the best striker and that he was in fact top 10 in BJJ (which he is most certainly not even close to being) it'd still be a piss poor strategy to expand energy inefficiently from an inferior position if you're sublime at negating the opponent from it.   On November 19 2012 17:16 Daut wrote: adding to keanus post, there was a real chance that anderson could have been submitted in a few fights. this wasnt just him holding onto an opponent and saving energy for later rounds, this was him getting passed and mounted by guys that could potentially finish him. And you're "adding to Keanu's post" because you do not realize that attempting submissions etc from guard when you're in the sweatiest scenarios possible is an excellent method of having your guard passed? And by your logic putting you at a real risk of being finished? Nobody in this thread, at least not me, is suggesting that Anderson seek out being on his back.

Stop with the hyperbole, there isn't "an absolutely ridiculous difference" between the endurance required for mma compared to bjj. It's certainly more difficult but not by that large of a margin, and at the tier these guys compete at grappling is going to be an energy drain whether there's striking or not. I've taken maybe 2 BJJ classes total in the past 5 years; it's been all submission grappling, MMA, muay thai, boxing, and wrestling. If you can grapple for an hour but can't last 5 minutes in an mma match the issue isn't the different sports, the issue is your lack of experience in an mma setting. the other possibility is that your training partners suck and have no idea how to apply pressure but whatever. Regardless...there's something else going on here. Don't get me wrong, I suck at mma and gas out really easily...but I'm not going to delude myself and say it's because mma is so much more difficult, the answer is because I'm experienced enough as a grappler to be relaxed and control my breathing even in difficult situations while in mma im constantly tensing up and afraid to get hit.

As for the rest, I dunno. It sounds like you're making my argument for me really. If the guys Silva has fought can just shrug off any of his attacks from guard and pass his guard as soon as he opens it up...that just means his ground game isn't very good. I've heard one of his training partners describe him as a top 10 bjj practitioner, I don't remember who so I'm not sure how valid it is...I've also heard him described as world class bjj. I dunno, where do you want the cut off to be? he isn't top 10, he isn't world class, he seems like somewhere around an average black belt. Wherever you want to make the distinction...who would you compare him to?

Just stop with this exhaustion nonsense. Have you rolled with an aggressive good 200+lb blackbelt before? All of this hyperbole about how difficult mma is can just as easily apply to them...you're constantly fighting off their legs, fists constantly slammed into your throat, pressure at all angles, forearms dug into your jaw line until your eyes start tearing up, every attack they throw has to be met with 100% force or your gonna get an arm or leg torn right the fuck off...it's a goddamn nightmare. there are a ton of nogi grappling tournaments where people are able to get sweeps/subs despite being sweaty, and not only are there a ton of attacks from your guard but many of them are actually going to make it nearly impossible to be struck. Not only that, plenty of MMA fighters have very active/aggressive guards and they don't tire out after 5 minutes. if you can't elevate your hips or shrimp out without getting your guard passed or getting shrugged off and punched in the mouth, the issue is with you, not with grappling as a whole. And if you can't grapple for 5 minutes in an mma match without gassing out, then either you need to hit the treadmill or, in my case, realize that taking a couple of punches isn't the end of the world and start breathing properly and not tensing up.

As for guard being an inferior position, this is something of a pet peeve of mine. guard isn't inferior, it's just so many fighters are alright with just stalling out and hoping to stand up that it seems inferior. yes, judges score top position favorably and takedowns highly...it sucks. so, get a sweep; sweep the dude and fight to get mount, then fuck him up...congrats on winning the round if not the fight. Or, sub the guy, he has very few subs he can go for while his entire body is open to you...throw up some attacks, find an opening, and win the fight outright without even having to worry about judges. Or, take his back; there are a number of different ways you can end up on the guys back from your back and if you can spend even just a minute riding his back not only are you likely to win the round but if your back mount is any good you'll have a great opportunity for a sub not to mention you'll be applying a ton of pressure on him which will have positive consequences for future rounds. Or, if all else fails, everything you're trying is sure to create space...use the fact that you're both sweaty and slip in an underhook and inch up the cage, or grab a collar tie and plant his head into the ground, or turtle up and work from there...at the very least you don't have to wait for a ref to stand you up which may not happen until the next round...in a 5 round fight you really shouldn't be giving up very many rounds.

And if none of that works and he parks your head up against the cage...well, he's just better than you i suppose. sucks, but go ahead and lock him up and hope to stall him out until you get stood up.

On November 20 2012 09:31 KeanuReaver wrote: Stop with the hyperbole, there isn't "an absolutely ridiculous difference" between the endurance required for mma compared to bjj. It's certainly more difficult but not by that large of a margin

There absolutely is. Please consult someone you know who has done both.

On November 20 2012 09:31 KeanuReaver wrote: If you can grapple for an hour but can't last 5 minutes in an mma match the issue isn't the different sports, the issue is your lack of experience in an mma setting. the other possibility is that your training partners suck and have no idea how to apply pressure but whatever.

I'm at a loss of words if you think there isn't an explanation for the endurance required that has something to do with you using your arms and legs forcefully and
receiving blows to your entire body. If you don't see that I have no interest in replying to nor reading more of your reply.

There is a monstrous difference between delivering 1000-2500 PSI (Please note that every action has an equal and opposing reaction, in this case in your arm or leg)
and throwing your arm forward fast to get a grip in BJJ and I truly want you to admit that fact if you want me to have a discussion with you.