Zoom poker - AQs deepish vs tiny 5bet

This hand was played by my roomate

.50/1.00 zoom poker 6 max

Hero starts with 156
SB has him covered (SB is 23/19/11 (vpip/pfr/3b) over ~100 hands and has no significant history with Hero)

Hero opens UTG w/ AQdd to 3
CO calls
BU calls
SB makes it 15
Hero makes it 39
CO fold
BU fold
SB makes it 71

So there is 120 in the pot and 32 to call with 84 effective left behind.

Hero calls (4:1 with a suited AQs how can we fold?)

Flop: 4KQ with 1 diamond

SB shoves 84 into 153

Hero.... ???


Okay so it seems pretty impossible for villain to have any bluffs in his range since he 5 bet and UTG 4bettor with 40-45% of his stack we can assume he intended to go with the hand. That seems like QQ+, AK+ and maybe the occasional overplayed JJ(and that's probably a stretch). Does this seem like a correct assumption?

If so we cannot call this flop despite getting almost 3:1 because we are totally crushed against everything except for the occasional overplayed JJ.

If that's the case then what flops can we call on? Obviously we'll be calling on all A and Q high flops but we'll be dead a lot in those situations too. 2 diamond flops are obvious calls but we're flipping at best. Which leaves the occasional miracle straight, flush, and trips flops where we're ever in really good shape vs his range.

So this analysis brings me back to the initial preflop call. 4:1 is great odds to be calling here but is it possible to consider folding if we realize we're giving away more money postflop than we are taking?

fold to the 5bet -.-' , i dont even think villain has AK in is range when he 5bets like this, i think this is aces more times than kings and dont even think he can have AK here, how can you have significant history over 100 hands on zoom?

oops - edited "significant history" to "no significant history"

Unless you have reasons to believe you can be ahead preflop, you gotta pitch it. you flop a pair 1 out of 4 times. if you don't think your hand would be good calling down with A high sometimes or if you can't confidently snap call after flopping a pair, ur burning money by calling the 5bet.

y did ur roommate 4b preflop?

such spew pre

AQ is a good hand to 4bet bluff if you think he is never 3betting hands you dominate and you think he is bluffing sometimes (78 56 Axs etc) but i dont know if thats the case here..

insta fold preflop imo.

Why are we folding pre? Call 3bet IP should be standard??

Pretty easy fold preflop. To his 3-bet.

obv it's a fold vs the 5-bet, but you guys are really folding to the 3bet w/ AQs in position 150bb deep vs someone with 11% 3b? that seems crazy to me...

4-betting is whatever, but i can't see how flatting IP wouldn't be profitable.

On April 01 2012 09:00 bigredhoss wrote: obv it's a fold vs the 5-bet, but you guys are really folding to the 3bet w/ AQs in position 150bb deep vs someone with 11% 3b? that seems crazy to me... 4-betting is whatever, but i can't see how flatting IP wouldn't be profitable.

It's situational. 4b bluffing can be more profitable then calling considering the pot will likely go 4-way when you call.

yeah i wasn't trying to say otherwise...i just couldn't see calling being worse than folding.

although tbh glancing through the hand first time i didn't see how many people initially called the raise before the 3-bet, i definitely like 4-betting there.

this looks like a huge spew.

on a side note how is zoom poker smufty?

Haven't tried yet but it looks pretty rush pokerish with a lot of bad regs (like guys who will put in more money w/ AQs after getting 5b) and the nut lowest of fish donking off their stacks w/ nothing every now and then.

so considering how these games play in general how is this not a flat vs the 3bet? sure we can fold the best hand a lot postflop but the times where we can comfortably call down A hi and also win a shitton of money when hitting a A or Q way offsets the disadvantages...plus we are in position vs a likely spew monkey w AQ ;o

4 betting would just have him fold out his trash, and have him ship better seems pretty counter intuitive unless he's got some kinda read which isn't mentioned...which is unlikely cuz it's rush poker ;(

yeah i'm in the flat the 3bet pre camp, i don't mind playing a multi-way pot with AQs

can't fold the flop after we call the 5bet

Yeah I think flatting is quite better than 4b bluffing especially with the suite, AQo I dont mind a 4b fold that much. When we get 5bet assuming we are vs a nutted range we got nothing but reverse implied odds on our call and were not near deep enough to try and crack anything.

fwiw his sizing for 4betting is pointless. 31 is all u need to make it. but i do like the 4bet i dont think we get bluffed ever in this spot. also a fold to the 5bet. if i didnt think i could 4bet profitably id fold. ur making it really easy for the other guys to play well against us. they're just gonna shove 99 where they would otherwise just fold it or even calling with it is annoying for us. we just wont win this pot often when we flat and calling down on Q or A boards for our stack actually wont be as good as people think. I mean if i flat and he barrels me on Q high board ur gonna fucking shit yourself he never bluffs there almost ever and he never has KQ.

ur repping exactly the range you have and u have to play it against potentially 3 people OOP without even relative position. Ur not gonna get value for ur hand postflop its a huge fish move to flat pre imo

On April 12 2012 13:56 DooMeR wrote: fwiw his sizing for 4betting is pointless. 31 is all u need to make it. but i do like the 4bet i dont think we get bluffed ever in this spot. also a fold to the 5bet. if i didnt think i could 4bet profitably id fold. ur making it really easy for the other guys to play well against us. they're just gonna shove 99 where they would otherwise just fold it or even calling with it is annoying for us. we just wont win this pot often when we flat and calling down on Q or A boards for our stack actually wont be as good as people think. I mean if i flat and he barrels me on Q high board ur gonna fucking shit yourself he never bluffs there almost ever and he never has KQ. ur repping exactly the range you have and u have to play it against potentially 3 people OOP without even relative position. Ur not gonna get value for ur hand postflop its a huge fish move to flat pre imo

i agree a 4b bluff is really good here against a lot of opponents but i disagree about this hand having no value. and if rush poker still plays similar to when i left it this is a pretty good spot to flat. otherwise just click the quick fold button and move on.

i misread sizing, so n/m

i think you can flat but if you do it too much /and not balance it enough - to where it becomes too predictable, then it becomes a huge fish move

didn't read the replies.
don't 4bet, it's utterly retarded. this is the top of your folding range if you are ever 4betting worse.