Broll management discipline.

I have a simple flaw: Bankroll management.

My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up. I know what good broll management is, but in the words of Arold, "I LACK DISCIPLINE!"

What are some tips you guys use to stay disciplined in your broll management efforts? (I'm looking for things you guys do to deter you from jumping up in stakes, not the literal numbers behind your management... there are countless articles on those).

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Upon further review, notables think I need to break my game down and rebuild it. I'm very open to advice and any help.. or places I can find help. Thanks.

Think of it as in you are not increasing your hourly rate by moving up, because you are increasing the chance of going bust by a much higher percentage. If you are better than the stake you are playing, then it will show because you will move up over time with the right amount of money, simple as that. You don't want to be the guy who is stuck at 25NL bc he keeps blowing his money at 200NL. Bc if you have a good run at 200NL, you will do the same thing with 400NL and 600NL. Nip this problem in the bud now before you get stuck in that cycle.

It takes power of will to keep playing according to your br management. That's where ambition should get included - "if I keep taking shots, I'm not strong enough"

im 100% with thewh00sel here, if you are a multitabler you wont even feel the urge to go higher if you are beating your stakes, because you will be going there in short time anyway

i used to be a mutli tabler... but since black friday, there isnt a platform in the US to do so. im on Carbon Poker atm, and the traffic isnt anywhere near where stars/ftp was (not where it ever be, and Ive come to terms with that)

Better to keep winning at what your playing and then take the shot later once you are definitely rolled. You are going to feel really terrible when you take a shot and bust 1/2 your roll and realize you have to play another 50k+ hands at your former stake to make up for the loss. Back when I was taking shots at NL 25 I busted like 2/3-3/4 of my roll from being stupid and had to regrind NL 5. Take it slow. It's going to feel a whole lot better knowing your moving up consistently than crashing cause you wanna play better people.

On January 18 2012 09:43 strydah wrote: I have a simple flaw: Bankroll management. My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up.

Your flaw is your ego. You do not have a skill level far above your stakes or you would be playing far above your stakes reasonably rolled. You simply think you are much better than you are causing you to take shots you have no business taking, and it's nothing more than that. Admit to yourself you have a lot to learn and focus on whatever the current stakes are that you should be playing with a mentality to improve and over time you will see results.

On January 18 2012 10:54 nolan wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2012 09:43 strydah wrote: I have a simple flaw: Bankroll management. My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up. Your flaw is your ego. You do not have a skill level far above your stakes or you would be playing far above your stakes reasonably rolled. You simply think you are much better than you are causing you to take shots you have no business taking, and it's nothing more than that. Admit to yourself you have a lot to learn and focus on whatever the current stakes are that you should be playing with a mentality to improve and over time you will see results.

if patience is a skill (which i'd say is more of a virtue) then you are right. im not going to sit here and tell you i know everything about poker.. no one does. but my game is pretty sound. i study like crazy, and have played infinite hands, reviewed tons of hand histories of other friends (MTTs related)... i have a good game, and because of this i always jump (especially in HU omaha, which i know is suicide because a swingier game doesnt exist...)

omaha hi/lo hu hyper turbo sngs ;sssssss

lol hu plo is whati was referring to, but yes, those are pretty bad too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

On January 18 2012 11:10 Zep wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion

I see what you tried to do there, but we're in the middle of a SOPA and PIPA black out. Please attempt any and all shenanigans at a later date.

Thanks!

I've never been able to teach anyone proper br management. I just let them busto and learn themselves.

On January 18 2012 11:02 strydah wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2012 10:54 nolan wrote:   On January 18 2012 09:43 strydah wrote: I have a simple flaw: Bankroll management. My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up. Your flaw is your ego. You do not have a skill level far above your stakes or you would be playing far above your stakes reasonably rolled. You simply think you are much better than you are causing you to take shots you have no business taking, and it's nothing more than that. Admit to yourself you have a lot to learn and focus on whatever the current stakes are that you should be playing with a mentality to improve and over time you will see results. if patience is a skill (which i'd say is more of a virtue) then you are right. im not going to sit here and tell you i know everything about poker.. no one does. but my game is pretty sound. i study like crazy, and have played infinite hands, reviewed tons of hand histories of other friends (MTTs related)... i have a good game, and because of this i always jump (especially in HU omaha, which i know is suicide because a swingier game doesnt exist...)

Whats your winrate? There's a lot of dillusional regs who say they are good, but all insta sit out when the fish goes busto....

On January 18 2012 09:43 strydah wrote: My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up. I know what good broll management is, but in the words of Arold, "I LACK DISCIPLINE!"

You should try to think of "poker skill" as including things such as bankroll management. The end goal of poker is money, the best player is the one who makes the most money - not who can talk the best game or run the best bluff etc.. Bad bankroll management is an obstruction to your goal, and is therefore a deficiency in your poker skill set.

double post

On January 18 2012 11:13 strydah wrote: Show nested quote + On January 18 2012 11:10 Zep wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion I see what you tried to do there, but we're in the middle of a SOPA and PIPA black out. Please attempt any and all shenanigans at a later date. Thanks!

Oh, my bad.

On January 18 2012 11:31 Zep wrote:

and judging by your sharkscope results, really just looks like you're a luck box. No matter what, you definitely don't have enough data to make any conclusions in regards to your skill level.

stats from 2010 on an obsolete account are fun!

There are no tricks to discipline, you just need to realize that no matter if you can or cant beat those stakes you will play worse while underrolled and swings will affect you much harder, keeping you playing those lower stakes potentially even longer than you would have otherwise. You gotta understand that jumping several limits above your roll is just proven to have -EV, its not a matter of opinion, its not conditional to your skill, its just a fact the same way jamming 75o preflop is -EV, once you see that those 2 things are the same you shouldnt have a problem not doing either. Of course there isnt anything too bad with the occasional shot at one limit above your own when there is a good game going, that would be like jamming with A4s ^^

On January 18 2012 13:03 EvilSky wrote: There are no tricks to discipline, you just need to realize that no matter if you can or cant beat those stakes you will play worse while underrolled and swings will affect you much harder, keeping you playing those lower stakes potentially even longer than you would have otherwise. You gotta understand that jumping several limits above your roll is just proven to have -EV, its not a matter of opinion, its not conditional to your skill, its just a fact the same way jamming 75o preflop is -EV, once you see that those 2 things are the same you shouldnt have a problem not doing either. Of course there isnt anything too bad with the occasional shot at one limit above your own when there is a good game going, that would be like jamming with A4s ^^

A4s is a powerhouse... lol.

Thank you for your input.

Here at Lp there is a quote we always believe in:

"Denial runs the industry"

by Sean "Rekrul" Nolan.

^ trolling? ;o

So if 2010 stats are meaningless, what areas of your game have you improved?

To be good at this game you have to be extremely honest with yourself. Being honest with yourself means you start recognizing whats good and bad, in both your own poker game and your overall management of game selection, bankroll, and all the other factors that contribute into playing poker. There are too many people who like to say things like "I'd play higher if I had better game selection" not realizing that is one of most important skills for up and coming online players. Fact of the matter is, most of the regulars that play higher are there for a reason, the high stakes regs that failed to be truely honest with themselves fall by the way side. If you find yourself being forced to drop down stakes you need to get honest with yourself quick, because the game continues to evolve. When you get honest with yourself about how to approach the game, things like bankroll management will come along with it. If you can't do these basic things, try something else in life, poker is not for you.

Here is my honest assessment of you, strydah, which may (but most likely will not) push you toward a more honest assessment of yourself: You are a micro stakes player who is spending way more time reading hands and lurking internet forums than you are actually playing poker. You have a very basic understanding of the math behind pot odds and implied odds, you have poker stove installed on your computer and might have even used it once or twice in your lifetime. Your hand reading skills are average at best vs really bad passive retards, but you fail to identify who the good regs are at the table. If a good reg continues to beat you in a pot, you think they are just getting extremely lucky vs you. Maybe you attempt a bluff and someone calls you down with bottom pair. You think: "Well if they actually understood how to play this fucking game, they would have definitely folded that hand!" This thought process propels you to take shots in games where you think people might respect your raises... They don't.... So you go busto... Again. Then you make a thread on LP.net locking in on what you think is the one and only flaw in your game: BANKROLL MANAGEMENT, with the delusion in your head that if you only had the money to play bigger, you'd definitely be rolling in the dough. That might be true if you bink a tournament. Odds are, you won't. You'll sit by your computer mashing the F5 key on the thread you've created instead of taking the time to study. You scroll through numerous troll posts and briefly read over one, maybe two, truly good pieces of advice. You ignore them. You got the attention you wanted, so your day is complete, and nothing changes. Rinse and repeat.

+ Show Spoiler +

And then... + Show Spoiler +

you wake up....+ Show Spoiler +

or.... + Show Spoiler +

NOT

tldr

boooom cosmo rapes OP

i feel like cosmo wrote his auto-biography before he started beating 1/2

BR management is simple.

Don't play nl 25

On January 18 2012 20:48 RaiNKhAN wrote: i feel like cosmo wrote his auto-biography before he started beating 1/2

i did lol

that is the most incredible internet rape I have ever read holy shit I actualy feel bad for the OP

I prolly know the best, caz this kid was me like 4 years ago.

On January 18 2012 22:41 JonnyCosMo wrote: I prolly know the best, caz this kid was me like 4 years ago.

lol trying to soften the blow now eh?

yup, this guy was me like 18 months ago when i was breaking even at nl25 over 250k hand sample size.

what jonnycosmo said is by far the most important thing to learn in poker. (well at least it was for me)

I still get pretty delusional from time to time when i run like the sun

ship has sailed a long time ago

quality post cosmo, i doubt op will learn though

cosmo deliverin

Then the question begs... where does one begin?

The natural line of progression, in accordance with your post, suggests that the next steps in the process are self-analyzation, then eliminate flaws. How do you pick apart your game? Where did you go (website or friend.. or just breakdown your own HHs) or what did you work on (specifically) to begin the improvement process? I guess I'm looking for some direction.

Thanks in advance CosMo/Others/NotZep

broll management before ho management imo

On January 19 2012 09:11 strydah wrote: Then the question begs... where does one begin? The natural line of progression, in accordance with your post, suggests that the next steps in the process are self-analyzation, then eliminate flaws. How do you pick apart your game? Where did you go (website or friend.. or just breakdown your own HHs) or what did you work on (specifically) to begin the improvement process? I guess I'm looking for some direction. Thanks in advance CosMo/Others/NotZep

I'd like an answer to this aswell, as I know my problem isn't br T_T

On January 19 2012 09:41 player999 wrote: broll management before ho management imo

so bad, but yet i lol'ed :D

On January 19 2012 12:29 longple wrote: Show nested quote + On January 19 2012 09:41 player999 wrote: broll management before ho management imo so bad, but yet i lol'ed :D

lol same

shiii bluuhhhh

Just move up to where they respect your raises brah

On January 20 2012 02:27 YoMeR wrote: Just move up to where they respect your raises brah

yous be trollzinnnnn brotato

On January 19 2012 09:11 strydah wrote: Then the question begs... where does one begin? The natural line of progression, in accordance with your post, suggests that the next steps in the process are self-analyzation, then eliminate flaws. How do you pick apart your game? Where did you go (website or friend.. or just breakdown your own HHs) or what did you work on (specifically) to begin the improvement process? I guess I'm looking for some direction. Thanks in advance CosMo/Others/NotZep

get in the trenches and go to war. observe. observe everything. especially your opponents and players better than you. watch jman play and explain poker. he is really good. mutual consultations are excellent but not until you and the other guy are actually good. for now it's probably a complete waste of time and damaging. most importantly be honest. nothing beats experience and honest reflection based in reality.

On January 20 2012 09:40 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On January 19 2012 09:11 strydah wrote: Then the question begs... where does one begin? The natural line of progression, in accordance with your post, suggests that the next steps in the process are self-analyzation, then eliminate flaws. How do you pick apart your game? Where did you go (website or friend.. or just breakdown your own HHs) or what did you work on (specifically) to begin the improvement process? I guess I'm looking for some direction. Thanks in advance CosMo/Others/NotZep get in the trenches and go to war. observe. observe everything. especially your opponents and players better than you. watch jman play and explain poker. he is really good. mutual consultations are excellent but not until you and the other guy are actually good. for now it's probably a complete waste of time and damaging. most importantly be honest. nothing beats experience and honest reflection based in reality.

where can these videos be found? thanks.

poker training sites. jman (phil galfond) is/was at bluefirepoker.com (pretty sure his videos are still there) cardrunners.com, leggopoker.com, etc.

thebestpokertorrents.com is where ive mostly been. ive pretty much exhausted all the CR vids, and the aejones (leggopoker) tutorials.. as well as many jonathan little videos..

i was more wondering if you had specifics

lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/

On January 19 2012 09:11 strydah wrote: Then the question begs... where does one begin? The natural line of progression, in accordance with your post, suggests that the next steps in the process are self-analyzation, then eliminate flaws. How do you pick apart your game? Where did you go (website or friend.. or just breakdown your own HHs) or what did you work on (specifically) to begin the improvement process? I guess I'm looking for some direction. Thanks in advance CosMo/Others/NotZep

I HATE people that bash my posts. I am so offended that someone I have no ties to doesn't respect my raises. I Better move up stakes.

I'm the man who has the ball. I'm the man who can throw it faster than fuck. So that is why i am better than everyone in the world. Kiss my ass and suck my dick everyone.

/thread

oh man, haha. youre the only one who had nothing to do all weekend. how adorable.

strydah first know when you are being trolled
after that either don't respond or laugh if you think it's funny. don't be hatin

you're getting some lessons in life in this thread, open your eyes

i appreciate everything they've all said in this thread, cept zep has his troll face on hard and doesnt go outside on weekends.

thanks though.

On January 20 2012 16:13 nolan wrote: lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/

?

On January 23 2012 12:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: Show nested quote + On January 20 2012 16:13 nolan wrote: lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/ ?

obv. why pay? lol.

On January 23 2012 12:45 strydah wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2012 12:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:   On January 20 2012 16:13 nolan wrote: lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/ ? obv. why pay? lol.

kinda silly to expect people to help out a guy with this attitude. lol.

On January 23 2012 13:57 Hasty Pond wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2012 12:45 strydah wrote:   On January 23 2012 12:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:   On January 20 2012 16:13 nolan wrote: lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/ ? obv. why pay? lol. kinda silly to expect people to help out a guy with this attitude. lol.

What attitude? The only person I have an attitude with is Zep in the thread cause he be trollzin like boxxy...

I'm approaching every response from serious posters with an open mind.

The comment about me torrenting videos, i felt like that was a weird question. Why incur further expenses when the internet is full of free?

On January 23 2012 14:14 strydah wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2012 13:57 Hasty Pond wrote:   On January 23 2012 12:45 strydah wrote:   On January 23 2012 12:06 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:   On January 20 2012 16:13 nolan wrote: lol youve been stealing all the videos? :/ ? obv. why pay? lol. kinda silly to expect people to help out a guy with this attitude. lol. What attitude? The only person I have an attitude with is Zep in the thread cause he be trollzin like boxxy... I'm approaching every response from serious posters with an open mind. The comment about me torrenting videos, i felt like that was a weird question. Why incur further expenses when the internet is full of free?

Your mindset is childish and naive...

You won't succeed until you remedy that.

i'm assuming a lot of people in this thread download tv-series and movies and shit, so i don't really see why you would have a problem with doing the same with poker videos. or is this for some reason not the same thing?

On January 24 2012 07:11 idonklife wrote: i'm assuming a lot of people in this thread download tv-series and movies and shit, so i don't really see why you would have a problem with doing the same with poker videos. or is this for some reason not the same thing?

exactly

On January 24 2012 07:11 idonklife wrote: i'm assuming a lot of people in this thread download tv-series and movies and shit, so i don't really see why you would have a problem with doing the same with poker videos. or is this for some reason not the same thing?

personally, i don't download music/movies illegally, partially due to having netflix and partially to it making me feel uncomfortable. i know i am in the minority a fair bit there.

to be more on topic, it's not necessarily about the parallel with entertainment. there's a slight difference imo between entertainment media and instructional media. furthermore, the poker community is relatively small. i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them.

as a final afterthought, in my time i have found that people who cut corners don't make it far in their pursuits. you'll see a stark difference in the mentality and world view of people who are very successful in certain fields than those who struggle.

i'm not trying to flame strydah, but it's abundantly clear he's not nearly as good at poker as he thinks he is and his self assessment and self awareness seems to be particularly poor. i think based on this thread it's pretty obvious he won't find success in poker any time soon. it's harsh to say and it could be wrong but i know a few people who grinded up from micros and they all had traits that strydah seems not to have based on how he presented himself here. meh.

rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies

i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download
but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl


''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. '''

really? comon man...

On January 24 2012 18:42 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl ''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. ''' really? comon man...

Theres a big difference in harming the music industry which is shit and destroys music so i gladly pirate and dont give a penny to those assholes and pirating to tiny bussineses, do you think its the same to pirate music than pirating HEM? obviously they are not the same thing.

In his defense card runners have had several questionable things happening with their pros so i wouldnt feel that bad.

Can you even find new poker videos on torrent sites? last time I checked was like 2 - 3 years ago and all i found was a bunch of outdated cardrunners videos from 2006. If you can find updated videos I don't have a problem with you downloading them, but I think it would be hard to find newer relevant vids

On January 18 2012 09:43 strydah wrote: I have a simple flaw: Bankroll management. My skill level is far above my stakes and because of such I always find myself jumping up. I know what good broll management is, but in the words of Arold, "I LACK DISCIPLINE!" What are some tips you guys use to stay disciplined in your broll management efforts? (I'm looking for things you guys do to deter you from jumping up in stakes, not the literal numbers behind your management... there are countless articles on those). Thanks in advance. Edit: Upon further review, notables think I need to break my game down and rebuild it. I'm very open to advice and any help.. or places I can find help. Thanks.

I ran into that problem when I switched from FR/6max LHE with some dabbling in PLO/HORSE/SNGs to HUNL. The only way to find/analyze/fix you leaks and improve your game is to play a ton of hands at 1 stake. Otherwise all your problems are gonna get magnified and ure gonna run into someone who plays for a living and rapes ure bankroll eventually.

So ya besides the busto factor: best way to improve ure game is to focus on 1 game and 1 stake at a time.

On January 24 2012 19:14 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2012 18:42 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl ''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. ''' really? comon man... Theres a big difference in harming the music industry which is shit and destroys music so i gladly pirate and dont give a penny to those assholes and pirating to tiny bussineses, do you think its the same to pirate music than pirating HEM? obviously they are not the same thing. In his defense card runners have had several questionable things happening with their pros so i wouldnt feel that bad.

Not to mention, there are plenty of ways to find legal music for free via youtube, spotify, etc. Vs Training videos which are meant to only be found on one site that you're supposed to pay for.
But like I said before, I really don't have a problem with illegally downloading copyrighted material. If you can find videos that are relevant to today's games, more power to you.

On January 24 2012 21:19 Zep wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2012 19:14 Baalim wrote:   On January 24 2012 18:42 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl ''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. ''' really? comon man... Theres a big difference in harming the music industry which is shit and destroys music so i gladly pirate and dont give a penny to those assholes and pirating to tiny bussineses, do you think its the same to pirate music than pirating HEM? obviously they are not the same thing. In his defense card runners have had several questionable things happening with their pros so i wouldnt feel that bad. Not to mention, there are plenty of ways to find legal music for free via youtube, spotify, etc. Vs Training videos which are meant to only be found on one site that you're supposed to pay for. But like I said before, I really don't have a problem with illegally downloading copyrighted material. If you can find videos that are relevant to today's games, more power to you.

its immoral if you actually hurt a small company imo, for example PokerTracker was pretty much a lone guy living exclusively for it, so i always discourage piracy of those things, if somebody cant afford it then maybe pirate it and pay for it when you have a better BR (as i did many years ago)

It was a one guy job and it was not that big of a production if you compare it with a movie production for example which can't be done by few people. Obviously, when you assimilate the product to a person you feel more concerned than when it is to a company.
Why would there be such a big difference in moral between a big company and a little one ?

Megaupload, a little company exploited his customers and I find it good that it shut down. The music industry is also made up of some little independent labels which are also hurt by this "piracy". This is not about being little or good, but it is about respect of customer, moral, quality of service...
And I'm all for your idea of a steam like application, you would be able to dl movie from and also platforms where you can "test" music before buying it.

On January 24 2012 23:07 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2012 21:19 Zep wrote:   On January 24 2012 19:14 Baalim wrote:   On January 24 2012 18:42 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl ''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. ''' really? comon man... Theres a big difference in harming the music industry which is shit and destroys music so i gladly pirate and dont give a penny to those assholes and pirating to tiny bussineses, do you think its the same to pirate music than pirating HEM? obviously they are not the same thing. In his defense card runners have had several questionable things happening with their pros so i wouldnt feel that bad. Not to mention, there are plenty of ways to find legal music for free via youtube, spotify, etc. Vs Training videos which are meant to only be found on one site that you're supposed to pay for. But like I said before, I really don't have a problem with illegally downloading copyrighted material. If you can find videos that are relevant to today's games, more power to you. its immoral if you actually hurt a small company imo, for example PokerTracker was pretty much a lone guy living exclusively for it, so i always discourage piracy of those things, if somebody cant afford it then maybe pirate it and pay for it when you have a better BR (as i did many years ago)

Baal is always bang on in these kind of spots. To conflate pirating music with videos made by a small company just because the crime is technically the same is a simplistic binary viewpoint that avoids responsibility for making one's own moral judgement and drawing one's own line in the sand.

you are retarded baal
but thats nothing new

i think its more the use of the word '' stealing '' that made me rofl

I'm sure 95% of people with a 3 digit IQ would agree with Baal.
Maybe you're the 5% maybe not.

On January 25 2012 06:08 Oly wrote: Show nested quote + On January 24 2012 23:07 Baalim wrote:   On January 24 2012 21:19 Zep wrote:   On January 24 2012 19:14 Baalim wrote:   On January 24 2012 18:42 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote: rofl@ bashing the guy because he download the video when close to everyone download music/movies i dont download music AT ALL i have tons of cd at my place..i buy movie/watch them on tv or rent them... i dont download but being surprised at someone downloading poker video and thinking that its not normal to do so : rofl ''i think most people pay for the videos out of respect for those who take the time to make them. ''' really? comon man... Theres a big difference in harming the music industry which is shit and destroys music so i gladly pirate and dont give a penny to those assholes and pirating to tiny bussineses, do you think its the same to pirate music than pirating HEM? obviously they are not the same thing. In his defense card runners have had several questionable things happening with their pros so i wouldnt feel that bad. Not to mention, there are plenty of ways to find legal music for free via youtube, spotify, etc. Vs Training videos which are meant to only be found on one site that you're supposed to pay for. But like I said before, I really don't have a problem with illegally downloading copyrighted material. If you can find videos that are relevant to today's games, more power to you. its immoral if you actually hurt a small company imo, for example PokerTracker was pretty much a lone guy living exclusively for it, so i always discourage piracy of those things, if somebody cant afford it then maybe pirate it and pay for it when you have a better BR (as i did many years ago) Baal is always bang on in these kind of spots. To conflate pirating music with videos made by a small company just because the crime is technically the same is a simplistic binary viewpoint that avoids responsibility for making one's own moral judgement and drawing one's own line in the sand.

And saying big companies are evil while little ones are not is as binary, and that's what he does the very next post.

The main argument for piracy is that copying something isnt stealing, not that it is stealing but because they are so rich its fine... you can say stealing from the filthy rich is much better than stealing from the poor, but its still stealing.

On January 25 2012 02:05 kingpowa wrote: It was a one guy job and it was not that big of a production if you compare it with a movie production for example which can't be done by few people. Obviously, when you assimilate the product to a person you feel more concerned than when it is to a company. Why would there be such a big difference in moral between a big company and a little one ? Megaupload, a little company exploited his customers and I find it good that it shut down. The music industry is also made up of some little independent labels which are also hurt by this "piracy". This is not about being little or good, but it is about respect of customer, moral, quality of service... And I'm all for your idea of a steam like application, you would be able to dl movie from and also platforms where you can "test" music before buying it.

how is it different todo it against a random guy than to a group of billionares and millionares?

The music industry causes great harm to the art of music, its monopolic abusive garbage.

And even ignoring the obvious justice of fucking with a corrupt industry, if you dont see a moral difference between stealing bread from a starving person than from a morbidly rich one then you are retarded

On January 25 2012 14:56 EvilSky wrote: The main argument for piracy is that copying something isnt stealing, not that it is stealing but because they are so rich its fine... you can say stealing from the filthy rich is much better than stealing from the poor, but its still stealing.

piracy isnt theft,... its piracy which would normally still be immoral, i however dont have any grude in retaliating to immoral people/industries, for example if i somehow had access to the bank account to a corrupt politician, i would steal every penny in it and wouldnt feel like ive done any wrong.

The Baalim Experience. I would listen to your podcast Baal haha.

I always like to pay for my snake oil to show my support for the small time oil businessman in this tough economic climate.

On January 25 2012 20:21 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On January 25 2012 02:05 kingpowa wrote: It was a one guy job and it was not that big of a production if you compare it with a movie production for example which can't be done by few people. Obviously, when you assimilate the product to a person you feel more concerned than when it is to a company. Why would there be such a big difference in moral between a big company and a little one ? Megaupload, a little company exploited his customers and I find it good that it shut down. The music industry is also made up of some little independent labels which are also hurt by this "piracy". This is not about being little or good, but it is about respect of customer, moral, quality of service... And I'm all for your idea of a steam like application, you would be able to dl movie from and also platforms where you can "test" music before buying it. how is it different todo it against a random guy than to a group of billionares and millionares? The music industry causes great harm to the art of music, its monopolic abusive garbage. And even ignoring the obvious justice of fucking with a corrupt industry, if you dont see a moral difference between stealing bread from a starving person than from a morbidly rich one then you are retarded

The example I took, was someone from the music industry but on an independant label and obviously not rich. Before saying people are retarded, try to not misunderstand what they say.
Though, I admit my posts are at best, poorly phrased.
And again, I agree that music industry has to change, I'm just saying that there are musicians who are not willing to be part of it but are hurt by piracy, so just saying that it is not that binary.

And I think constructive comments as the idea you brought up "a steam like platform for movie" are much better than ones just saying Music industry is all shit and let's dl all the music.

Now, going to login on grooveshark to listen to some music.

yeah a baal podcast would be interesting lol

On January 26 2012 02:43 Highcard wrote: yeah a baal podcast would be interesting lol

id pirate it

Using the argument that 'the music industry destroys music' is a pretty damn dumb argument lol.

baal, do you have anywhere i can read about why the music industry is so unfair?

i'm not that educated and i know they probably take advantage of artists and basically run by seducing idiots and teenage girls with marketing and branding but to play devil's advocate there is a lot of risk and costs involved with producing/publishing an artist and considering the amount of people that are looking for a stake it's the nature of the business. also, music is not objective, it's subjective. if 80% of the world are "idiots" and like "garbage" music you are just gonna have to deal with it (or invent a better market and/or try to educate people better).

i am actually with you (and anonymous) and would much prefer to pay the artists directly instead of paying some fat cat for marketing/branding/raping/packaging/etc and am all for that movement, i just don't know if i agree with your guys' position that stealing from them is fair.

also, i assume when you said you'd steal from corrupt politicians that you would then somehow try to figure out a fair way to distribute that money back to the people effected and not keep it yourself?