PokerStars Restricts French Online Poker Play

<img src="http://admins.liquidpoker.net/staff/Defrag/pokerstarstablerestrict.jpg" align="right" style="margin:5px; border:1px solid black;">Since June 24th, all French players are blocked from real money games of any kind on PokerStars.com. All because of a new set of regulations concerning poker put in place by the French government. Due to the importance of the news, PokerStars staff was very clear in regard to the most important detail to players: their money. “All money in PokerStars accounts is 100% safe and is available for withdrawal. You can choose to cash out now if you prefer,” was written on a note when French players logged into their account.

Other than cashing right away, they can opt to transfer their money into PokerStars.Fr, a room exclusive for French players. PokerStars.Fr operates in a similar manner as the Italian PokerStars room, which only allows Italian action. PokerStars staff is also promoting the site with some cool promos: “We will be running free tournaments on PokerStars.fr this weekend to win seats to live French Poker Series events.”

When we compare the traffic on PokerStars.com, looking at numbers from June 17th and June 24th, we can see the traffic suffered a drop of around 10%. On June 17th, the number of cash game players peaked at 40,943, while on June 24th, the peak was at 36,566. On June 23rd, the number of players topped out at 37,637. These two days mark the first time, since May 1st and 2nd, that the peak of real money cash game players stay below 40,000 for two consecutive days. Of course these numbers are just illustrative and are by no means proof that this small drop in traffic is caused by the block of French players.

As for tournaments, accessing the SCOOP series statistics, we can see that 27,316 players from France bought into a tournament at some point or another. This makes France the country with the fourth most participants, totalling 6% of the 462,000 field.

Don't we have some french SNE seekers? Kinda owned

wow.. i normally see ~180k+ players on at anytime. didn't realise that 75%+ were playing tourneys/sng's.

fuck, maybe i'm doing something wrong here? lol

sigh, this isn't good, less fish overall =[

IT SUCKS !

:/

mipwnya is french going for SNE but he lives out of the country

lame government action ><

are they blocked from pokerstars specifically, or online poker in general? Will we still see french players on party?

This is bullshit :/

In theory French players are only supposed to play on sites that have a French license and only Vs other French players - not only do we get owned by losing all the fish the French players get owned too as the government set a rake of 7% (5% for site + 2% tax) - AND I also here they are raking unflopped pots. This is not confirmed - just what I heard elsewhere (DC forum).

On June 26 2010 17:08 Grindasaurus wrote: wow.. i normally see ~180k+ players on at anytime. didn't realise that 75%+ were playing tourneys/sng's. fuck, maybe i'm doing something wrong here? lol

majority are idling not playing anything i think

2nd mail received recently :
PokerStars.fr is now fully licenced by the French authorities
+ Show Spoiler +

I really don't know what is the best for french pokerplayers to do to play poker now.
I just tried to sit at a table, and I have a message that says that due to government regulation gnagna I can go fuck my self.
nice...

oh noes ;(

And on the new site, there is very little informaton about rake (nothing at all from what I quickly saw), possibility of transfer from international software to new french one, and what about FPP ? ...
I guess I'm gonna mail them.

Is this goood or bad? The french fish are the best... they never get better

On June 26 2010 18:40 casinocasino wrote: Is this goood or bad? The french fish are the best... they never get better

Bad for non french players, but good for some french players. I mean, I don't consider myself as a good player, but definitely not a fish. So if I play on french pokerstars, there will be a high density of fish to make money from... but rake is high !

FUUUUUUUUUU

FFS what is the EU doing
i really dont like where this is going

they can only play vs. French players?!?!? What the heck is that?!?!?

does the higher rake mean you don't pay tax on your winnings anymore?

greek goverment is also planning on increasing taxes online starting from
online betstores. taxes like 9,5% that is ..

7% rake lol what are these greedy fucks just wanting to instantly take every player's money out of the site and int othe pockets of the government and pokerroom ahahaha the fuck

this is a fucked up situation. the only good thing is that the german government has other major problems than taxing poker. but even for all the small eurodonk sites this is bad, first italy now france, what´s next spain ?

On June 26 2010 20:36 Night2o1 wrote: 7% rake lol what are these greedy fucks just wanting to instantly take every player's money out of the site and int othe pockets of the government and pokerroom ahahaha the fuck

if its a replacement for tax is it all that bad?

I actually think this is a step forward for online poker.

Italy and france went from banning online poker to regulating it. And for those who miss the french fish there is always ftp, they dont give a fuck about nothing. Just played a session with lots of ialian and french players over there.

Lighten up guys, in the long run this is gonna be good for poker.

regards

in hindsight gettin the fuck out of france was a pretty smart move ahahha that 7% rake thingy is quite gross

imagine playing HU with hands with no flop being raked...

On June 26 2010 21:11 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 20:36 Night2o1 wrote: 7% rake lol what are these greedy fucks just wanting to instantly take every player's money out of the site and int othe pockets of the government and pokerroom ahahaha the fuck if its a replacement for tax is it all that bad?

I'd say that's entirely dependent on whether they rake pots where there is no flop. If they rake those then the 7% + the fact that non-flop pots would be raked would make it pretty bad. Otherwise no probably not especially when you consider SN and SNE are pretty good rakeback.

Either way the more European countires that follow suit the worse the PLO games will get. They are particularly driven by European players since the game is much more popular over there. Major blow.

Can players from other countries play on pokerstars.fr?

man, I wish i could play with only french people, that would be the illest, Paris here i come

next they will be prohibiting alcohol

On June 26 2010 21:30 brain1719 wrote: I actually think this is a step forward for online poker. Italy and france went from banning online poker to regulating it. And for those who miss the french fish there is always ftp, they dont give a fuck about nothing. Just played a session with lots of ialian and french players over there. Lighten up guys, in the long run this is gonna be good for poker. regards

How can it be good for poker? Regulating is a step back, not forward. Even though it's better than banning, it's still v. bad

On June 27 2010 00:32 SpasticInk wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 21:30 brain1719 wrote: I actually think this is a step forward for online poker. Italy and france went from banning online poker to regulating it. And for those who miss the french fish there is always ftp, they dont give a fuck about nothing. Just played a session with lots of ialian and french players over there. Lighten up guys, in the long run this is gonna be good for poker. regards How can it be good for poker? Regulating is a step back, not forward. Even though it's better than banning, it's still v. bad

agreed

srsly fucking governments should stop messing with people's freedom to gamble their money and do w/e they want.

i'm gonna miss those frenchys for when they started talking shit after getting beat

On June 27 2010 00:39 Exhilarate wrote: agreed

I think not being seen as criminals is an improvement overall.

On June 26 2010 22:22 Bejamin1 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2010 21:11 Nazgul wrote:   On June 26 2010 20:36 Night2o1 wrote: 7% rake lol what are these greedy fucks just wanting to instantly take every player's money out of the site and int othe pockets of the government and pokerroom ahahaha the fuck if its a replacement for tax is it all that bad? I'd say that's entirely dependent on whether they rake pots where there is no flop. If they rake those then the 7% + the fact that non-flop pots would be raked would make it pretty bad. Otherwise no probably not especially when you consider SN and SNE are pretty good rakeback.

But the rakeback would only be on 5% I would guess as the other 2% is separate and belongs to the government - not so good then....

On June 26 2010 17:48 TalentedTom wrote: are they blocked from pokerstars specifically, or online poker in general? Will we still see french players on party?

Blocked from Stars & Party, FTP is still ok but it's probably not gonna last, already some problems making deposits for some players.

From what I've gathered form 2+2, Pocketfives etc. not only the rake will be increased by 2% (Gov. tax) but they will also start raking preflop. GG nits.

On June 27 2010 07:01 anheway wrote: From what I've gathered form 2+2, Pocketfives etc. not only the rake will be increased by 2% (Gov. tax) but they will also start raking preflop. GG nits.

I think you got it backwards,that would strike me as gg aggro monkeys, raise people fold and pay rake on your raise

we have to wait for 29 June, i have play on FTP for waiting and damn they seem a lot more good than PS it is just me ?

2% more rake will make much more ppl losers

The French government has balls.

Doing stuff like this consistently in France, home of the French Revolution takes balls.

On June 26 2010 21:30 brain1719 wrote: And for those who miss the french fish there is always ftp, they dont give a fuck about nothing. Just played a session with lots of ialian and french players over there.

Hello,

Thank you for contacting Full Tilt Poker Support.

Full Tilt Poker has applied to ARJEL, the body responsible for the regulation of the French poker industry, for a license to launch a dedicated French version of our poker room.

When Full Tilt Poker.fr is available, our players from France and French territories will enjoy exclusive online poker tournaments with other French poker players in accordance with the regulations governing the French poker market.

Our game client and website will be updated as soon as more information is available.

We appreciate your understanding.

Regards,

Michael
Full Tilt Poker Support


Sorry, for everybody.

So the new tax requirement makes it impossible for the entire Poker Stars site (or any other site for that matter) to get licensed as a whole? That's pretty dumb. I mean I am sure it ensures the tax is paid for the French government, but from the point of view of the players it sucks since it fractures the community.

Increased rake vs no tax should not be that bad of a trade-off it seems.

It looks like every major room/network applied to ARJEL.

That's pretty much goodbye to 100% of French players, from now on they will only play with other French ;/

holy shit french donks are gone?

disastrous

are french players still able to play on everest?

On June 27 2010 15:41 maryn wrote: are french players still able to play on everest?

everest is splitting too

On June 27 2010 03:05 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 00:39 Exhilarate wrote: agreed I think not being seen as criminals is an improvement overall.

The one's who see you as criminal are the real insidious criminals. You would pay daily the gestapo to get through?

Oh sh.t... I wouldn't think for real that they would rake it soooooo much. I mean, i was pretty sure they'd get an agreement with pstars for decreasing the rake but if it isn't, then we're mostly fucked for real.

Seriously ? 7% rake even on preflop ? WTF ARE THEY SERIOUSLY THINKING ? They're just trying to ban poker from france...

is there a rake cap ? or they take 70€ in a 1k€ pot ?

1€ cap.
I'm actually thinking to move to london or malta.
I'm really pissed of atm ...
Yeah the field will be really fishy , french are the worst players with italians.
But come on !
7% rake ? without rakeback and with rake preflop ???
Are you fucking kidding me ?? >_<

On June 27 2010 23:54 waga wrote: 1€ cap. I'm actually thinking to move to london or malta. I'm really pissed of atm ... Yeah the field will be really fishy , french are the worst players with italians. But come on ! 7% rake ? without rakeback and with rake preflop ??? Are you fucking kidding me ?? >_<

1euro cap are u sure? dsnt make sense on stars rake is capped at 3dollars so thatd mean less rake on ps.fr ? too good to be true

well obv the absence of "no flop no drop" policy is a huge downside but if its really 1euro cap it might be fair, esp if u play midstakes

On June 27 2010 17:42 Liquid`Meat wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 15:41 maryn wrote: are french players still able to play on everest? everest is splitting too

Crap. I would guess close to half of Everest is French - that really sucks. Can't see how all these sites that have to split will survive - some consolidation/thinning of the field will be needed I guess.

We could just hope there are gonna propose some good bonuses (not even sure, it is possible, as there is yet a problem with rakeback), make a lot of add, and lots of fish will invade those french tables.

On June 28 2010 03:30 4Kingell wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 17:42 Liquid`Meat wrote:   On June 27 2010 15:41 maryn wrote: are french players still able to play on everest? everest is splitting too Crap. I would guess close to half of Everest is French - that really sucks. Can't see how all these sites that have to split will survive - some consolidation/thinning of the field will be needed I guess.

yep everest is dead if they ban french players

On June 28 2010 02:30 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 23:54 waga wrote: 1€ cap. I'm actually thinking to move to london or malta. I'm really pissed of atm ... Yeah the field will be really fishy , french are the worst players with italians. But come on ! 7% rake ? without rakeback and with rake preflop ??? Are you fucking kidding me ?? >_< 1euro cap are u sure? dsnt make sense on stars rake is capped at 3dollars so thatd mean less rake on ps.fr ? too good to be true

im pretty sure this 1€ cap is just for 2% tax, on top of that u still pay 3€ of normal rake (or w/e is the cap for euro tables)

this is horrible for poker

is there any kind of protest on this?
facebook group even?
c'mon French players, join forces!

Live games survive with much higher rake and no rakeback at all. I am quite certain this will not kill profitability of games, especially if you don't have to pay taxes on your winnings.

On June 28 2010 02:30 MiPwnYa wrote: Show nested quote + On June 27 2010 23:54 waga wrote: 1€ cap. I'm actually thinking to move to london or malta. I'm really pissed of atm ... Yeah the field will be really fishy , french are the worst players with italians. But come on ! 7% rake ? without rakeback and with rake preflop ??? Are you fucking kidding me ?? >_< 1euro cap are u sure? dsnt make sense on stars rake is capped at 3dollars so thatd mean less rake on ps.fr ? too good to be true

3€ cap + 1 € cap obv

this suxx bigtime

This is seriously bullshit T________T
Just so you get an idea : nl10 > I raise, i get 3 bet i fold, i've already lost 3 cents. For 1 hour session, it can go up to 30 cents per table. Roughly 3 euros in my case per hour, in other words almost 30% of our buyin per hour !!!
What in the world was the government thinking ? T___________T

I really hope my statut can get it tax free but i really can't get this idea for the others frenchies...

Isn't Elky a member of team PokerStars? Just wondering, cuz it sounds kinda gay if he can't play there but is a member of the team anyway. :D
Kinda wondering how the topic of him hasn't been discussed in this topic prior to this one.

Does he live in France tho?


Pretty sure they won't hunt down emigrants

On June 28 2010 15:07 Muhweli wrote: Isn't Elky a member of team PokerStars? Just wondering, cuz it sounds kinda gay if he can't play there but is a member of the team anyway. :D Kinda wondering how the topic of him hasn't been discussed in this topic prior to this one.

He lives in London so he can play on stars.com.
I wonder if he will be able to play stars.com AND stars.fr.

A very similar law was voted in Italy, and when looking at the team Pokerstars, I see no italian players. Are they just able to play on stars.it or were their contracts ended? I know at least Dario Minieri was a member of team PokerStars, does someone know what happened to him (can't access his page on stars.com, all the website is now banned for French IPs, it appears)?

he lives in london afaik

Uh oh.

"California's first intrastate Internet poker legislation will be discussed on Tuesday in the Senate Governmental Organization Committee.

.....

Most troubling is that the bill would make it a misdemeanor offense for Californians to play on a site not authorized by the state. The state would license only three operators and indicates that operators would be found unsuitable if they allowed games to be played over the Internet for compensation in the state since passage of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. In other words, the bill would make it a crime for Californians to play on current popular sites like PokerStars and Full Tilt."

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2010/06...e-internet-poker-legislation-8489.htm

Well in upcoming years poker is either going to grow tremendously coz of stuff like this or it will completely die ... One time flip pls?

On June 28 2010 18:06 MilZo wrote: Uh oh. "California's first intrastate Internet poker legislation will be discussed on Tuesday in the Senate Governmental Organization Committee. ..... Most troubling is that the bill would make it a misdemeanor offense for Californians to play on a site not authorized by the state. The state would license only three operators and indicates that operators would be found unsuitable if they allowed games to be played over the Internet for compensation in the state since passage of the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act. In other words, the bill would make it a crime for Californians to play on current popular sites like PokerStars and Full Tilt." http://www.pokernews.com/news/2010/06...e-internet-poker-legislation-8489.htm

i live in california i'd fucking make sure this never happens

i'd go to war if they tried to make it illegal for sure

And what about someone who would come to france for some vacations or tourneys or whatever. Can they play on pokerstars.com ?

The article does say French players, not players playing from France. Elky still is a citizen of France, no? I mean I could see them not blocking him obv, but it's just a type of IP block then and not based on address and nationality then?

The block is (so far) based on the mailing address that people provided when they opened their account on Stars. For example foreigners with a French mailing address are currently banned, and French poker players living abroad can still play on the .com if their mailing address is in another country.

So there probably is/will be a decent amount of requests from players to have their address changed so that they can go back to playing on the .com, but so far the French department of the Stars support is not responding on these matters, probably because they're waiting for some official texts to be published (should have been today but it got delayed, probably for no more than a couple of days).

On June 29 2010 06:04 MilZo wrote: The block is (so far) based on the mailing address that people provided when they opened their account on Stars. For example foreigners with a French mailing address are currently banned, and French poker players living abroad can still play on the .com if their mailing address is in another country. So there probably is/will be a decent amount of requests from players to have their address changed so that they can go back to playing on the .com, but so far the French department of the Stars support is not responding on these matters, probably because they're waiting for some official texts to be published (should have been today but it got delayed, probably for no more than a couple of days).

lol wut? just make a hotmail account

On June 29 2010 07:32 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On June 29 2010 06:04 MilZo wrote: The block is (so far) based on the mailing address that people provided when they opened their account on Stars. For example foreigners with a French mailing address are currently banned, and French poker players living abroad can still play on the .com if their mailing address is in another country. So there probably is/will be a decent amount of requests from players to have their address changed so that they can go back to playing on the .com, but so far the French department of the Stars support is not responding on these matters, probably because they're waiting for some official texts to be published (should have been today but it got delayed, probably for no more than a couple of days). lol wut? just make a hotmail account

lol noob

yea it depends on the address you provided to stars, being a Brazil resident I can play on ps.com even if I go to France on holidays
Sweet

I've an hotmail com account and i'm still banned.

French are all gone from Everest. No games.

I've tried PS.fr
LOL french are incredibly bad ...
but the rake hurt a lot

the end of online poker is coming quickly

The French players have been royally screwed by their government. High and mid stakes pros will just leave the country. The room will just be a low to mid traffic room without enough players to support anything much besides short handed No limit. There will be pretty much only low and micro stakes tables and not enough of them to multi-table without playing more than one level at a time. The result is that those French grinders who were playing $200 NL and those who were part time mid stakes grinders will be filling seats at all tables, even the micro stakes ones. There also does not seem to be a cap on the rake and there will be no rakeback. The profits to be made off of fish will not make up for the rake and the loss of the ability to play at ones level of skill due to the lack of tables and mid stakes games. Pretty much pokerstars and the French government will be the only big winners. It's exactly because of actions like this that I'm against people like Barney Franks who wants to license American online play- they would just license it to death!