MLM (legal scamming)

Can't you involve the rest of your family? That seems like a fucked up situation.
Shouldn't your parents take care of the well being of your grandma?

you seem really convinced that the guy is a huge scammer. Is there sufficient proof or just jealous that shes spending resources on another young man???

acknowledge that her hearts in the right place but this opportunity is not the right one for you. i would suggest taking the time to work on another project together to both keep a close eye on her and limit the connection she may have with the salesman. you have to figure out her motive for involving you in this situation; is she leveling you into spending more time with her? is the relationship with her own children not so strong such that she wants to form a bond with you? perhaps she is so deep in the hole that the only way to dig herself out is to involve other people. you must stay ahead of this conniving woman or it will manifest itself in other forms

you catch my drift. dont make any rash moves (i.e. telling the guy to shove it) until you've figured out a few possible scenarios. Just play along with minimal interest

lol grandpaments

Its nothing to do with wanting to spend more time together or whatever. The guy just convinced her to sign up for another MLM, but she is "focused" on another "opportunity" right now, so she was worked into a frenzy to sign up but didn't view herself as having the time to commit to it. So she figured (or IMO it was suggested to her) she'd sign up her grandson. The guy probably told her the only way I could refuse would be because I'm "lazy".

I say that because when she told me about this I said, "There's pretty much no way I'm going to do this. You know I feel that its an unethical and evil business model." She replied that the only way I wouldn't do it is if I were lazy.

Of course I know the guy is a huge scammer, what the fuck. Is this real life? Is that really a question?

Before I get worked up I'll ask you: Do you know what MLM is (hint: barely legal organized crime)? Couple that with do you know what it takes to be disbarred as a lawyer and sent to prison for a couple years?
fuck I'm so angry atm.


she isn't conniving or anything, she has no idea that what she is trying to do ostracizes her from friendship, doesn't understand that she is trying to work within an unsound business model, etc. she is incredibly naive and ignorant.. easily swayed by people who present themselves as business alpha males

Normally i would be like lol, woman and money. But because it's so personal, it's more like lol, old women. What's the problem in telling this guy to fuck off? Personally if I had a grandmother and she was dumb enough to continuously be scammed and buy into it over and over I would just tell her enough is enough and she has to choose between being scammed and being able to talk to her grandson. I would work on finding her new hobbies that don't cost as much and aren't just straight up pyramid schemes. Has she tried bingo?

One of my aunts fell victim to a MLM insurance scam a couple of years ago, and my heart goes out to you and your family. Finances aside, these scams can drive families apart and can create so much distrust among loved ones.

I can offer you some advice that draws from my own experiences with my aunt, and I hope you can draw something useful from it.

For one, I agree with GoTuNk in that a type of "intervention" can be a great way to address the problem. From your post, its clear that your grandma is not taking your lone word seriously, and gathering your family and grandmother's friends to address the issue is both a direct and civil way to bring your concerns to her attention.

If you end up talking to the ex-lawyer character, don't be confrontational. No matter how much of a scumbag this ex-lawyer may be, always remember that you are doing this to help your grandma and not to get revenge against a conman. Your grandmother unfortunately trusts this man a lot, and a conflict with him could lead to a conflict with your grandmother.

I would focus on building your trust with your Grandmother rather than tearing down the trust she has in this conman. Calling this guy a liar and con won't get you anywhere - she didn't listen before, and she won't in the future.

Your grandmother said you wouldn't help her because you were "lazy." Show here you aren't lazy. Show her that you're taking the hard path by showing her concern. Show her your effort. Show her that you care. Trust isn't earned through words, it is earned through action.

nah dawg nah

you're perhaps making the biggest mistake that anyone could make, and that is underestimating the opponent. Now I don't know your personal history and can only give you advice in an average North American family household vacuum, but try to assess the situation accurately here. Do you honestly think that grandma in all her 60+ years of wisdom cannot distinguish between a swindling faggot and legitimate looking business? Old people don't do business on the internets, they bump carts at the same brick n mortar stores lookin to keep stable their way of life. Trust me i have 4 live grandparents; they don't suddenly choose to initiate a 21st century financial makeover extreme edition in some company with no background rather than investing it all into GM bonds older than her own parents just to prove her grandson's laziness.

i mean first of all u sound so pissed off and unobjective that i dont think you are capable of thinking at a woman's level right now. maybe shes throwing away $1000 now to see who cares and gets to stay on the good'ol deathlist. You know what is one of the biggest MLM scams out there that I can see old people getting into? Religion. She'd be throwing away money for years now at some church if listening to some alpha male's instructions were a consistent trait.

For someone to convince another person to pay up hundreds of dollars not once, but few times over has to be a hell of a slick ass snake. Or, the client would have to be really misinformed and devoid of almost all common sense. Neither of these are likely to be true on an absolute scale so there has to be an alternate explanation: shes leveling you. get your game hats on

Source: previous salesman, poker player, and psych major


ps. i know its none of my business but by looking at how you interact with your grandmother its obvious that your approach is completely backwards. youre LOGICALLY telling her that her decision was a wrong one, when her OWN DECISION was one made under emotional duress. In other words all she hears is how wrong she is, got defensive (youre a lazy grandfson), and will prove everyone wrong by throwing more money at the problem, thus reinforcing her decision. this little interaction could have been orchastrated but in the event that it wasnt, try to be emotionally grounded and understanding next time

You know you/your family can file for custody of her assets if you can convince a judge that she is unable to handle them (as evidenced by repeated involvement of MLM).

I think that would probably be the best course of action if you actually care and have time to do that.

I'd personally try the first logical route (explain to her how she's being swindled, how it's a rampant scam especially with older people).

if that doesn't work, then grow some balls. If someone was continuously stealing from my family, I would certainly rectify the problem one way or another.

I don't know if you're just really small and easily intimidated (can't stand up for yourself), but you gotta grow some balls man.

And I don't mean that in a negative/insulting tone, you gotta man up. Someones robbing your fucking grandma. Discover who he really is. Discover his address, and his car. Smash his car up every few weekends. Make certain to let him know that you don't appreciate him talking advantage of your 'lesser-aware' relatives.

All that being said - couple hundred sign-up fee, and ~$120 a month? $~1600/yr? Is that really worth a family intervention or smashing someone's car up?

It might be her forum of entertainment, in which case, whatever. Wish her luck.

Or! Create your own MLM, show her you aren't a lazy fuck, and profit. BAM. Problem solved.

lol plz keep us posted

something like this

old folks are super stubborn and its going to be super tough to resolve this. if its tilting you that much then i agree with devon here. most of us have this kind of problem with our parents or grandparents being scammed by some sweet talking pos and all you can honestly do is watch it unfold of leave the house.

the gif from goodfellas sums up my thoughts.

lol love you guys

/drunk

wow vegable super nailed this one all over his 2nd post. Especially "your approach is completely backwards. youre LOGICALLY telling her that her decision was a wrong one, when her OWN DECISION was one made under emotional duress". You can't use logic and reason to counter irrational decisions - that's why Richard Dawkins comes off so frustrated, he simply doesn't get how people work. Do you ever see advertisements trying to persuade people using logic and reason? No you never ever do! Like, actually never! And those people know a fuckton about persuasion. This scamming fuck is like a midstakes grinder at bullshit (pretty damn good, but not a millionaire) - and to him you are a 1c/2c fish who just doesn't see why limp/minreraising AA utg is bad.

Reading your op got me so pissed off in empathy - hope it works out mate.

edit: I'm not saying play a dishonest game - just an emotional one. You're currently attempting to play football in a game of tennis.

On October 24 2011 20:36 Night2o1 wrote: What's my play tomorrow when this motherfucking scammer calls? I can't just tell him to fuck off because he holds a strong sway with my grandmother, as does the idea of MLM in general, and I'm sure he'd appropriately label me an enemy of his financial interests. I don't think I want to become a scammer myself.

I'd take a two-pronged attack. I would show great sympathy to grandma and explore with her ways in which she can invest her money and show support for her financial security and help get all the paperwork in order which will dovetail nicely with the other prong: I would read up hardcore about the regulations regarding this, and try and trip him into breaking one or two and get it on record. Then SNAP report him to whoever the relevant financial regulator is, and express great shock to gran that this financial saviour whom you both trusted was doing some underhand shit. Old people like law and order.

I don't really agree with Vegable's post about your grandma leveling you but I also completely agree with this: "your approach is completely backwards. youre LOGICALLY telling her that her decision was a wrong one, when her OWN DECISION was one made under emotional duress."

I'm interning for a CFP right now and stories like this are relatively common. Not always MLM bs but old people convinced by dishonest and less qualified "planners" and taking the shit route when it comes to retirement funding.

I'm assuming here (and hope) that you've already told her about this guy's shady background and somehow she still trusts him. This definitely means she's beyond reason and you need to find some other medium that she'd trust more than this guy. From what I can make out from your post, that person obviously isn't you. Introduce her to a legit Financial Planner with good qualification (CFP designation, Masters degree and such), clean background (can easily be researched through FINRA) and other qualities (or charismatic as you describe it) that your gran would like. If you get your gran to trust the guy you find, maybe he can convince her that what she's doing is definitely a bad idea. Maybe as an added bonus, he'll be able to also locate something the scammer is doing that is clearly against regulation and punish him in a legal way.

If by some chance she is actually leveling you, doing this would clearly show that you care about her best interest and definitely not lazy.

Good luck....

lol grandma is not leveling.

just find other good investment opportunities for her. it's going to take a fuckton of work to actually geti tgoing but at least your family member isn't spewing off their wealth to a scamming faggot.

If your grandma is this big of a fucking retard and doesnt remember the last 11 scams she fell victim to, then just use this opportunity to hide the scam from her. Just be evasive, vague, stonewall the lawyer guy, just waste everybody's time to the point that your grandma isnt losing any more money. She has given you a rare opportunity here to help her out, so use it to protect her from herself. Request all sorts of asinine information from the MLM guy to the point that he doesnt think you're purposely trolling him. Take forever to get back to him, ignore all his calls, return his calls at add hours and leave voicemails indicating interest. Then after a month or three of convincing him you might finally have made some sort of decision, start requesting info about the very first things you discussed again. Pretend you're on the bubble to a satty and you're just gonna timebank every single hand until it's finally over.

The problem is in your mindset and attitude. Devon's heart is in the right place, but a bit misguided. You can't approach this problem with violence.

Sure, you know I don't think much of you etc. and I wouldn't blame you for having mutual feelings, so let me get to the point.

a) You aren't spending enough time with your Grandma. Villain is. He's stopping by, probably bringing little cakes and presents - he's earning his dollar. In reality, he's probably more of a grandson than you are. All you repeatedly state is how "stupid" and "clueless" and "naive" she is. Sure. You'll be the fish berating everyone else when she leaves you with nothing. Stop belittling her and take some time to understand what makes her tick.

b) You are severely outmatched versus this guy. His job is to con old women, and you don't know the first thing about them. At least you aren't oblivious to this - asking for strategy on LP is a worthy step. Understand that you are the underdog here, and accept that he is probably closer to your Grandma than you. Feel guilty about this.

c) Will I be to blame when she is broke in whatever number of years down the road? Your mindset here is so fucking gross it pains me. Your grandma clearly cares about you - Mr. Con manipulated her love for you in order to seal that deal. She legitimately hopes you both can profit from this. To you, she's just a senile woman who "will lose it all". Think from other people's perspectives.