Coaching discussion on Myth - Page 6

Loco you have a very skewed vision of staking. Myth has been very UNLUCKY to be backed for reasons that are not over-spending related that I won't get into because the thread is about whether he should charge $350 per hour for coaching. He's giving people the opportunity to make a lot of money off of WAY less than the cost of a college education. It's like the thread that discussed whether CTS's book is worth $1800. Cost and worth are very different things.

You can give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life.

On July 18 2010 14:32 EvilSky wrote: Loco stop derailing this with deserving and fayth wtf O_o

i've allowed myself to go on a tangent with frinkx just because myth is probably done on here, so i wouldn't exactly say it's a significant derail. i'll get back on topic if i'm allowed to but i gotta reply to frinkx... -____-

wait why is myth done here?

I was gonna bust in here and say what thewh00sel said. Myth may say 'fuck it nothing matters' but by all accounts of his actions he doesn't mean it how you perceive Loco. He's one of the most generous people I know. And he is very responsible where it counts.

You just seem like you're on the rag, maybe you should take a step back.

He's said his piece and that people who are still worried about it can get more results down the road. Anything more is just going to be bickering, really. Not much more evidence can come forward.

I like how you are quoting a facebook status as a source loco rofl

MiniFeedz ftw!!!

On July 18 2010 14:41 thewh00sel wrote: Loco you have a very skewed vision of staking. Myth has been very UNLUCKY to be backed for reasons that are not over-spending related that I won't get into because the thread is about whether he should charge $350 per hour for coaching. He's giving people the opportunity to make a lot of money off of WAY less than the cost of a college education. It's like the thread that discussed whether CTS's book is worth $1800. Cost and worth are very different things. You can give a man a fish and he'll eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he'll eat for life.

why even say that i have skewed vision if you aren't going to argue your point? it's so pointless and condescending...

and what you said after is just sooooooooooooooooooooooo wrong i can't even begin to express how wrong. i mean seriously it's extreme reductionism of the matter being discussed here.

and do you REALLY think that myth is teaching a man to fish in an hour lesson or two? which is obviously what he's done the most since people cannot afford that many sessions and are looking to plug leaks quickly afaik. he's not. it's not even up for arguing...

this is a whole lot of bullshit, the price you charge should be related to your competence and not the perceived worth of your competence or its potential in changing the life of someone, wow does he really have such an overblown sense of what he's accomplishing? is that the way he manages to sleep on his hustle at night or what? this is just an excuse for being greedy as hell. the "both sides benefit" argument may be true in some cases, but it doesn't mean the service couldn't have been more reasonably priced.

On July 18 2010 14:47 Night2o1 wrote: I was gonna bust in here and say what thewh00sel said. Myth may say 'fuck it nothing matters' but by all accounts of his actions he doesn't mean it how you perceive Loco. He's one of the most generous people I know. And he is very responsible where it counts. You just seem like you're on the rag, maybe you should take a step back. He's said his piece and that people who are still worried about it can get more results down the road. Anything more is just going to be bickering, really. Not much more evidence can come forward.

that might be true, in which case if the hat doesn't fit, don't wear it? i don't see the problem... i was just putting a rant out there because i think it might apply, i'm not expressing absolute certainty that it does nor am i lumping frinkx in there as he seems to believe i was, since he's claiming i'm assuming he and myth are the same which i never did afaik.

and i think you're right fwiw, i don't even think most people who have this attitude truly believe this themselves, it's just a way to cope with the impermanence of things because it's painful. my problem is when people start embodying that kind of thinking and act like crap towards others obviously. if you're saying myth isn't like this and he's generous as fuck then i can't be anything but happy to hear it.


and as far as the status being my only source, that's not true and the rant wouldn't have come out if that was so. i vaguely remember some of his other posts and i also feel like rekrul has been a HUGE influence on corwin and the way he sees life now, and to some extent maybe frinkx as well (?) i don't really know, but i do remember rekrul having that kind of mentality, or at least he was expressing himself as such. so hey if the hat fits then that's that. otherwise don't take the rant seriously.

On July 18 2010 14:28 FrinkX wrote: Show nested quote + On July 18 2010 14:06 Loco wrote: the simple fact that you can have those habits show how fortunate you are and have gotten, and the fact that you're irratated simply shows how much of an ungrateful prick you are about your life. sure you haven't been lucky in the past couple of years, boo-fucking-hoo. you are a huge lucksack, and i don't envy you one fucking second for it just by looking at how you act. you're the one who's completely clueless. since you are so results oriented and can't look at the big picture i'm trying to paint let me offer you this reminder of your yearly recap of 2008:   On December 30 2008 13:32 FrinkX wrote: Also a big big BIG thank you to peachy for staking me and being so patient with me. If it wasn't for you I wouldn't have made a significant amount money from poker and I would have coasted for years and then had to move on. Now I have a really solid start and the opportunity to make a LOT more money in something I actually enjoy doing. Thank you so much all i'm saying is that I (and many others) didn't have that luck you had at that moment. you didn't have to put nearly as much effort as we had to because you were financially comfortable. comfortable enough to be extravagant. you can cower behind the idea that you're a better player than me all you want it doesn't change that fact. i am so grateful for my life but i dont for one second think im just a lucksack given all the effort i have put into this game how and why are u calling me a huge lucksack wtf. if u are referencing my poker skill fine that's your opinion, but wtf? we both have the same life, just a different variation and different life choices. you had JUST AS MANY OPPORTUNITIES AS I DID god damnit man before my mother fucking wpt ft and ftops 2nd place i was -100k to peachy, in small debt to my friends and pretty much broke. i road out this status for a really long time until i finally binked the inevitable. now im broke again because i continued the same patterns and hit a retarded bout of negative variance in the ONLY thing i regret about the last 3 years is not grinding cash games on the side in order to maintain my life style. i def. do not regret the money i spent or the life choices i made but what the fuck about my post about peachy? who the fuck cares. i was sick grateful that he staked me and if he didnt wind up staking me i would have easily found a different backer. i meant it, if it wasnt for him (or w/e backer i did a deal with) i would not have made that money because at that time in my life online cash grind was simply NOT going to happen regardless of my financial status and ur right, boo fucking hoo that i havent won anything since 2009, it sure does suck but yeah, i should have made lots of $ in cash games i just cant believe u keep calling me ungrateful for my life and a huge lucksack. i def. think i put in enough of a sample size to justify my results (prior to my epic live downswing) i am obviously grateful for my life... ur quote from long ago proved it wtf the ONLY thing i have been irriated with or a prick about is your fucking peice of shit assumptions about our lives and our poker careers i have too many tournament tables running right now to really give an organized argument. i rly dont know what ur problem is with me but ur views on me and my life and my general attitude are completely wrong

frinkx, first of all i don't have anything against the way you live. it's your choice, we pursue happiness however we know best. i'm glad you are happy, so am i and we've taken different paths. i do believe mine is more sustainable, but i don't believe you are stupid for not sharing it. i'd have to believe that pretty much all my friends are stupid if i did. i think it has very little to do with intelligence anyway and a lot more to do with introspection.

the way you expressed yourself before this message sounded like you weren't grateful the slightest, which is something everyone tends to do when things haven't been going their way (when it's perceived as such). me quoting you was a simple reality check because you didn't seem to acknowledge your position as having had it easier than me or other grinders. you also seem to believe that you being in a pinch before is a justification for you not being particularly lucky but hard working. from what i remember reading, you weren't exactly smart with your money and you had dug your own hole. not variance. and if you wish for us to believe that it's variance, then you'll have a lot of evidence to show because it doesn't add up with the fact that you couldn't win at online poker (or even play it) anymore.

i'm not sure i buy the argument that someone else would've staked you and all. i think you were quite lucky someone did, really. i don't think it's that easy at all. but anyway, it's not really worth discussing what might have happened.

and no, the quote only proved that you were sick grateful at that time, not necessarily now.

he's offering a product and setting his own price, there are HUNDREDS of other choices out there for coaching. Maybe he doesn't have time to spend with 50 students at 150 an hour and can only take on 21 students for the same profit or is fine with less students for less profit. He's marketed himself well, and a higher price isn't indicative of him making more money. A lot of people charge 500+ per hour so he's not even going crazy with the pricing. Just seems like a dumb topic, he is marketed by cardrunners whose opinion is "he is good enough to coach you" and their word should be enough and if it's not go elsewhere, not like he's monopolized the market...

I'll just say that although i believe 350/h for a 1/2 player is obscenely high, and is only possible due to some misconstrued image of myth from what i can tell,
it may be the case that he offers something more, but if so he hasn't come here justifying himself, which he is entitled not to do.

more importantly imo is the insinuation that he may have other people play on his account, which is clearly a nono. That is something that i would love to be clarified, because the other issues speak more to the poker coaching community/mentality as a whole than him in particular.

On July 18 2010 15:18 thewh00sel wrote: he's offering a product and setting his own price, there are HUNDREDS of other choices out there for coaching. Maybe he doesn't have time to spend with 50 students at 150 an hour and can only take on 21 students for the same profit or is fine with less students for less profit. He's marketed himself well, and a higher price isn't indicative of him making more money. A lot of people charge 500+ per hour so he's not even going crazy with the pricing. Just seems like a dumb topic, he is marketed by cardrunners whose opinion is "he is good enough to coach you" and their word should be enough and if it's not go elsewhere, not like he's monopolized the market...

i agree, and this is what he should've been exposed to be on here since the very beginning and not just recently.

but i'm sure you can agree also with the concern that most of us have, which is: how can one be charging $350/h for poker coaching when one has never had an hourly winrate close to that? it's just very strange when you think about it. like somebody mentioned, it's not like he's a life/mindset coach, he's coaching about the game. just seems reasonable to be able to show some evidence that he is worth that much to us, on here. i'm not too concerned if some random guys over at cardrunners choose him as a coach, i'm concerned if people on here choose him instead of a better player who charges less...

Guys I think you missed Nazgul's post.

Stop derailing the thread - stay on topic. FrinkX/Loco, take it up to pm's if you have a problem with each other.

Has anyone seen that PLO grinder whose PLO book costs like 2.5k and the truth is over both his screennames on ptr over 150k hands or something he has a negative winrate?

Anyway, personally I don't have a huge problem with Myth charging for his services SO LONG AS any prospective students are made aware of his FTP and PS screenames. It's a bit ethically grey but on the other hand maybe he can teach concepts better than he can execute them. Myself, I wouldn't pay him $50 an hour for his coaching though.

Buyer beware, nothing much else to say regarding this subject.

I'm not jealous of myth at all, he's always been really nice to me and seemed pretty awesome from meeting him at WSOP few days ago but I truly feel his coaching is overpriced...

and for those saying that people can be teaching poker but have tilt issues and so on and that's why they don't win seems just flat out wrong, if you make the right play you'll win, simple as that, now I just don't get how he can teach people to be solid winners if he's not a solid winner himself

A coach should be able to consistently destroy the stake he is coaching for and have long-term proof of doing so. Results from live cash games and tournaments are not credentials for beating online poker.

I also think if a person is coaching 1/2 or higher they should have played 60k hands at that limit within the last 6 months. The games are in a constant process of evolution. Advice that was correct a year and a half ago probably isn't nearly as useful or insightful now. If someone plays 5/10 live and is successful but hasn't played more than 50k hands at 1/2 online since 2008 how much can they really know about the games? Even online the limits play very differently from each other. The way regs play at 1/2 is very different from how they play at 5/10. A reg at 5/10 who hasn't played 1/2 in years probably won't give the best advice for beating it.

I don't know about Myth's reputation but I will say talking a good game and playing a good game are two different things. People can be very eloquent at expressing their understanding of poker and poker theory without actually being very good at applying it. There are certainly very good players on this site who believe in Myth's abilities. There are certainly some decent live tournament results that we've all railed. He probably has some pretty good live cash results as well. However these aforementioned facts don't guarantee he's a good coach for online poker that should be charging 350/hr.

There are two things Myth should therefore present to this thread:
1. Proof of quality online results at 1/2 with a large and recent sample.
2. Proof of satisfied customers with their PTR's who come forward and claim solid improvement/moving up as a result of Myth's coaching.

Myth is probably a very good player. He certainly has the respect of some high ranking LP guys. I do however think it's fair that people want to see proof of good results/effective coaching rather than just paying on reputation.

I really don't know why Steal City opened this thread. If the answer is "to educate the public" then that's a bullshit excuse.

If anyone actually fondles with the idea of getting coaching it's up to the STUDENT whether or not they will investigate the coach. If that student doesn't, then it's ALL ON HIM.

Everyone in this thread is either attacking or defending Myth's reputation as a poker player, NOT A COACH, which inherently is wrong to begin with because this thread is about his COACHING skills. From what I hear, all of his students give him rave reviews so what's the problem?

The one thing people in this thread haven't touched on is the lack of personal responsibility on the student's end. If you blindly go into a student/coaching operation with no history/background/information/investigation on your coach then you're a goddamned retard who deserves to lose his money.

Myth isn't a scammer or a cheater. He gives people an hourly rate PER HIS CHOICE, and people can DECIDE whether or not to pay it. No one is forcing anyone to be Myth's student at all.

/thread

Just hire Dzoo, he's payable for every nl100 and above player and I'm sure as hell he's worth it.
I think coaching isn't about getting perfect adfvice, it's about getting another perspective on the game, and if possible a good perspective.
I mean if all the coaches were right all the time they were playing nl1000000000000000000000000000000000000, it's just another way to look at the game.

And i'm sure as hell dzoo's way is that much different from my own game that he's worth every penny.

On July 18 2010 15:44 Fayth wrote: I'm not jealous of myth at all, he's always been really nice to me and seemed pretty awesome from meeting him at WSOP few days ago but I truly feel his coaching is overpriced... and for those saying that people can be teaching poker but have tilt issues and so on and that's why they don't win seems just flat out wrong, if you make the right play you'll win, simple as that, now I just don't get how he can teach people to be solid winners if he's not a solid winner himself

Faulty logic. The phrase "those who can't, teach" is there for a reason. And if Myth can have his student's have great results per his teaching, then what's the problem?


Bill Belichick, the coach of the New England Patriots, has led them to four Super Bowl victories and he's never in his life played professional football, only college.

If people feel that Myth's price is too high, then guess what? Find another coach for a lesser price.

If you feel that the Honda dealership in Vegas is charging too much for their 2010 model, then guess what? Go to another fucking Honda dealership.