Is the Poker Economy on the decline?

Im curious, do you guys feel that Poker is on the decline?

I heard some things on TV yesterday about poker, it was one of those popular poker TV shows, forget which one tho.. but they said how late 2009 Poker was much less popular, less events, thus creating less airtime for poker on TV.

Do you guys feel that Poker will decrease to the point where it is not profitable online anymore? It is pretty much out of the mainstream now, taking away the chance to invite in newbies to get their money taken..

I don't think Poker on TV was ever going to maintain it's viewership except for High Stakes Poker. Most of the Poker shows on television especially the big live donkament ones are terrible. It's painful to watch bad players do stupid things and then hear the announcers make even stupider comments. I feel like as soon as a players poker IQ gets high enough they won't be able to enjoy those shows and in fact will loathe them.

High Stakes Poker is the only show I've ever watched on Poker that actually maintained my interest and that had me looking forward to it every week. I'm sure that's the same for a lot of people +/- a few other cash game shows that might be good that I've never watched.

In terms of online poker. Pokerstars average daily traffic is as high as it's ever been in their history. Online poker is about as likely to die as live poker which means never unless governments decide to pass really nasty laws. It will always be profitable for those who have the basic level of intelligence required to become good at the game and the work ethic to put in the time that is necessary to be successful.

It is on the decline but it will never be unprofitable imo. Popularity also brings intelligent people who can be winning regulars into the poker economy. I'm not so sure about less TV shows, there's been a lot of new poker shows on tv recently, some entertaining, some hella retarded, shows like face the ace, 2 months 2 million, that dumb show Joe Haschem hosts, Aussie millions is a fairly new series, etc. Since poker is a part of American culture and the culture of many European countries, and since people will always love to gamble, poker will always be profitable. I'm pretty sure this topic has been talked about for the millionth time now .

United states economy is on a decline and us government is on the incline. Their relationship is like a seesaw.
This has a direct impact on poker. Because the real wages of ppl are decreased. Which means less money to gamble on pokersites which means all stakes become more competitive.

Regards,
wood

poker is dying imo.

Seems like there is more and more fish to me

Or am I getting better? lol :D

Anyway, the legislation in the US is definitely taking its toll, I hear stories about the softness of Euro sites, but FTP and Stars won't get any better if the legislation stays... All the US poker nerds play there!

Do you guys feel that Poker will decrease to the point where it is not profitable online anymore?

To whom it will be and to whom it wont. I'm pretty sure Tom Dwan would be making money as long as online poker runs, but you probably wont.

On March 18 2010 12:39 woodbrave1 wrote: United states economy is on a decline and us government is on the incline. Their relationship is like a seesaw. This has a direct impact on poker. Because the real wages of ppl are decreased. Which means less money to gamble on pokersites which means all stakes become more competitive. Regards, wood

Got wood?

LOLOL

poker is dying

in one month, nl2 will be unbeatable

Ya once scout stops playing.

less events is just a result of there being more choice.

why would you spend $10k on travel and $10k on buyins going to multiple events when you could just spend $2k on travel and $18k on buyins at the WSOP.

Like UB cancelling Aruba this year, people would rather go to WSOPE or whatever event is on at the same time.

Ah I was wondering where the monthly "poker is dying" thread was.

I rather look at it like poker is simply not growing anymore. It's peaked and reached a widespread level of popularity to the point that there will always be fish and new fish joining. Has vegas died in the last 50 years? Everyone knows it exists. People just arent flocking to it.

On March 18 2010 17:04 phexac wrote: Ah I was wondering where the monthly "poker is dying" thread was.

poker is evolving, not dying. Those 2 graphs posted are awesome.

On March 13 2010 02:31 woodbrave1 wrote: Maruisz pudzianowski can shoulder press with 1 shoulder Brock lesnars body weight. He could 1arm bench Brock lesnar at age 16. Marius pudz can 1leg press 2x Brock lesnar body weight. Maruisz eats 3 lbs of bacon every morning with a dozen eggs. If fighting is about skill remove the weight limits so maruisz can grow to 350 lbs of the strongest man in the world. And see what skill counts for against physical talent and heart.

On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote:

Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O

On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O

PTR graph just doesn't go that low :-P

why is it declining? arent there more and more players online? WSOP main event having bigger and bigger 1st prize each year because of more players. I just don't see why would it be on the decline

lol.
die thread already

he didnt ask if poker is "dieing" he asked if it was declining, and the answer is yes.

On March 19 2010 14:03 dnagardi wrote: why is it declining? arent there more and more players online? WSOP main event having bigger and bigger 1st prize each year because of more players. I just don't see why would it be on the decline

no.... Jamie Gold's year was the peak

On March 19 2010 16:43 JonnyCosMo wrote: Show nested quote + On March 19 2010 14:03 dnagardi wrote: why is it declining? arent there more and more players online? WSOP main event having bigger and bigger 1st prize each year because of more players. I just don't see why would it be on the decline no.... Jamie Gold's year was the peak

Solution: We must finance mass production of Jamie Gold clones.



Cmon guys, lets save poker.

On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote: Show nested quote + On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O

scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason.

people only sitting in when he's at the table and immediately sitting out when he busts or sits out for any reason, probably doesn't help much

also ptr is fucking retarded, anyone who thinks fish want their longterm losses staring them in the face and for everyone else to see is a retard and yes, it hurts the poker economy

... /end semi related rant

it's not even about the money anymore, when you are treated like this(scout), and add ptr to the mix, its natural human behaviour to feel stupid, mocked etc.
definitely turns off the fish even if they couldn't care less about the money. its like being exploited and no one ever wants to feel that way.

On March 22 2010 04:29 whamm! wrote: it's not even about the money anymore, when you are treated like this(scout), and add ptr to the mix, its natural human behaviour to feel stupid, mocked etc. definitely turns off the fish even if they couldn't care less about the money. its like being exploited and no one ever wants to feel that way.

This is certainly a huge part of it, however there are still alot of fish around and new poker economies (Russia and Eastern Europe etc) evolving.. Also...

Cardrunners etc - Making the average player stronger means that there is more chips just being pushed around between people (great for the poker sites, not good for the players) it doesnt take people a year of playing poker to think like a poker player any more, it just takes a couple of months of playing and watching CTS etc.. There is less of an edge between a good player and a medium player these days

Also, I believe an unexplored factor is the way people play these days - the outright aggression of people like Durrrr, Phil Ivey etc.. Instead of being able to sit there with a buyin or two and just play tight solid but relatively fishy the big fish at the high stakes are being forced to a decision for all their chips every hand and being made to look like idiots by Durrrr etc, just getting run over all the time etc... I can't imagine people like Jerry Buss choosing to play with people like Durrrr. (While I certainly agree their way of playing is superior, just saying it can turn off fish - whereas people like doyle and chip reese go out of their way to keep the fish comfortable at the table)

And finally(almost), the berating and table talk at the poker tables these days is an absolute joke, like years ago people talked about value (oh gotta call VALUE) donkey stuff like that, now people are talking about hand ranges, reverse implied odds, berating the hell out of people for making mistakes and getting lucky.. It's just a joke. Lots of people who are big time gamblers who love playing poker don't gamble on poker online they stick to like online blackjack and stuff cos they have enough of getting called a fish when they play their (terrible) game

And finally, so many people quit uni/jobs to become pro's over the course of the last few years that almost any profitable game (even $24 45 man sngs & 1/2 nl and up) is often reg filled now (due to the bigger stakes players moving down and the average skill level getting higher or w/e) making poker tough(er) at even mid-low stakes

I should restrain from reading this threads and just watch thewhoosel's car for grinding motivation =d

lol

On March 22 2010 02:29 Exhilarate wrote: Show nested quote + On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote:   On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason.

same for joeingram :D

it's evolving.

it wont end but I think it's safe to assume even three years from now that the WSOP might not even have 2,000 entrants for the main event

On April 03 2010 04:01 RaiNKhAN wrote: it wont end but I think it's safe to assume even three years from now that the WSOP might not even have 2,000 entrants for the main event

rrrrrright

On April 03 2010 04:49 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On April 03 2010 04:01 RaiNKhAN wrote: it wont end but I think it's safe to assume even three years from now that the WSOP might not even have 2,000 entrants for the main event rrrrrright

Imo, it dropping to 2000 may be a long shot. The last 3 years it's been stable at 6k entrants. I think that once all the people who would have liked to get good, but didn't for any reason have left the poker scene, there will be too many pro players to support. There will always be the stereotypical cash-dumping rich american player, but those are not enough. But seeing the WSOP ME in 2003 had 839 entrants, I think it will stay above that, but it will take some time to drop.

weren't they turning people away who wanted to play the ME last year because the day they wanted was full?

i think a lot of online qualifiers are keeping the numbers up. god forbid online supports live poker one day....

Poker players are extremely lucky to have our profession even exist and we should just be grateful for it. It is probably one of the only professional disciplines in the world where the best get to play against amateurs to make their living. It is because of this fact that the games at every level will always be profitable. I mean come on guys. It's like being Tiger Woods and getting to play golf against you or me to make his X million dollars per year.

Yes there will be more regs and the games will get more difficult to a degree, but guess what most regs plateau and don't try to improve after a certain point. There are very few people who play poker 4-6+ hours a day and constantly try to improve. Those people are the ones who move up quickly and find their way to the top eventually. It takes discipline, dedication, and a constant desire to get better that few people possess within them.

On March 23 2010 00:40 dogmeat wrote: Show nested quote + On March 22 2010 02:29 Exhilarate wrote:   On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote:   On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason. same for joeingram :D

he was playing like a stupid monkey today at 1knl

On April 03 2010 13:58 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On March 23 2010 00:40 dogmeat wrote:   On March 22 2010 02:29 Exhilarate wrote:   On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote:   On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason. same for joeingram :D he was playing like a stupid monkey today at 1knl

Only today?

should I, not already addicted to poker, still enter poker in 2010?

or am I not talented enough, discliplined enough, hard-working enough, to be on the level that I will need to be to make it in poker in 2010?

On April 03 2010 17:13 Fudyann wrote: should I, not already addicted to poker, still enter poker in 2010? or am I not talented enough, discliplined enough, hard-working enough, to be on the level that I will need to be to make it in poker in 2010?

Unless you have incredible talent, stay away.

Or play MTT tournies and HU.


Doing today what we did 4-5 years ago doesn't work anymore.


You can still make money, but not as easy and as much as before.


BTW, if you have to ask a question like that, you probably won't make it. Make it, meaning someone that can go out and print money.

its possible only if you have a good coach

and a good coach that will teach you is hard to come by seeing how they charge much more than you can afford starting out

in fact poker now has a very high startup cost compared to before (buying holdem manager, getting some form of training be it coaching/sub site/e-books, and bankroll to play nl25)

sure you could grind it out playing nl10 (and one should) but you don't actually learn anything and so much of poker [discipline and theory] is non-intuitive (the simple act of controlling yourself after a bad beat goes against human nature)

learning poker by ones self right now is too hard

On April 03 2010 17:13 Fudyann wrote: should I, not already addicted to poker, still enter poker in 2010? or am I not talented enough, discliplined enough, hard-working enough, to be on the level that I will need to be to make it in poker in 2010?

To become a full-time pro, absolutely definitely not.

To do it as a part-time job in addition to school, maybe, though honestly it's probably not worth it that much if you are just starting. If you don't enjoy it and don't have any skills right now I'd just forget about it and live your life.

The reasoning is less about can you do it but more is it worth it to do. I have no doubt you could be making $50/hr in a year with dedication, but you could accomplish something more long-term career related / goes on a resume too in that time with that effort.

On April 03 2010 13:58 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On March 23 2010 00:40 dogmeat wrote:   On March 22 2010 02:29 Exhilarate wrote:   On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote:   On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason. same for joeingram :D he was playing like a stupid monkey today at 1knl

Why is he getting so much hate? seems like a dick thing to do especially given that he posts here -.-

yeah joeingram is a cool guy. good sport too from all the abuse he gets here and rarely gets upset abt it

On April 03 2010 18:29 Tien wrote: Show nested quote + On April 03 2010 17:13 Fudyann wrote: should I, not already addicted to poker, still enter poker in 2010? or am I not talented enough, discliplined enough, hard-working enough, to be on the level that I will need to be to make it in poker in 2010? BTW, if you have to ask a question like that, you probably won't make it. Make it, meaning someone that can go out and print money.

Yeah I was gonna say that too

name of this thread makes me giggle, mods should make it stickied

On April 03 2010 20:06 EvilSky wrote: Show nested quote + On April 03 2010 13:58 Baal wrote:   On March 23 2010 00:40 dogmeat wrote:   On March 22 2010 02:29 Exhilarate wrote:   On March 19 2010 12:23 minnow wrote:   On March 18 2010 14:42 dogmeat wrote: Look how he went from a big loser to break even... even monster fish are improving o_O scout has been pretty tight lately for some reason. same for joeingram :D he was playing like a stupid monkey today at 1knl Why is he getting so much hate? seems like a dick thing to do especially given that he posts here -.-

i dont hate him, i think he is silly and he doesnt really post here, it was more about blogging here.