Two and half months breakeven, advice needed ! - Page 2

Dude, seriously playing 8 tables is not for everybody. I'm actualy pretty impressed how some players manage to do it. But most 8tabling regulars at 50 and 100nl play really disciplined, but really weak postflop imo, missing a ton of value in obvious spots. I'm full of leaks myself btw, that's why I came here for advice.

maynard is right.

what's the point of going 'pro' when you only play 4 hours a day ? :s

Well maybe he's not fit for hardcore grinding, i tried grinding for 8h/day and believe me it's not enjoyable at all ...at least for me. Much more exhausting than std jobs where you can be on automatic pilot while a mistake in poker can destruct your winrate.

buy holdem manager of PT3. It will help your game

On December 09 2008 16:22 the cleaner wrote: Dude, seriously playing 8 tables is not for everybody. I'm actualy pretty impressed how some players manage to do it. But most 8tabling regulars at 50 and 100nl play really disciplined, but really weak postflop imo, missing a ton of value in obvious spots. I'm full of leaks myself btw, that's why I came here for advice.

Right I understand. 4-tables is fine. From your numbers you seem like a very strong player. Close to 4BB/100 over400k hands is extemely SOLID. You won't find many people at all who could post up that big of a BB over 400k hands. You've had a bad stretch of 100k but this happens. You're gonna win again for sure.

My point is this: you're a solid player with a great rate of return but you're broke. Why? You don't put enough time into your game. You'll never break free of 50/100 NL putting in the hours you put in. You need to work your ass off to break free of the middle stakes. What happens if you return to great profitability again and earn another 20k over 12 months? You'll go broke again, you're barely covering living expenses.

In short: Shit or get off the can.

I'm playing with Pt3 atm, kind of laggy on my laptop, the program has tilted me bad in the past, but will give it another shot.

Also it's not only the grind but also like 2 or 3 hrs extra/day trying to improve thru forums vids etc, as others have pointed out. It's not that I'm lazy or anything. I used to work day and night shifts before, really long hours. But I think that playing more then 4 or 5 hrs a day would burn out most players pretty fast. I'm surprise that there are players, even at midstakes who 24 table it's insane.

Anyways, I'm actualy trying to get out of this downswing and by playing more I think I would just make it worse ...

On December 09 2008 16:32 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2008 16:22 the cleaner wrote: Dude, seriously playing 8 tables is not for everybody. I'm actualy pretty impressed how some players manage to do it. But most 8tabling regulars at 50 and 100nl play really disciplined, but really weak postflop imo, missing a ton of value in obvious spots. I'm full of leaks myself btw, that's why I came here for advice. Right I understand. 4-tables is fine. From your numbers you seem like a very strong player. Close to 4BB/100 over400k hands is extemely SOLID. You won't find many people at all who could post up that big of a BB over 400k hands. You've had a bad stretch of 100k but this happens. You're gonna win again for sure. My point is this: you're a solid player with a great rate of return but you're broke. Why? You don't put enough time into your game. You'll never break free of 50/100 NL putting in the hours you put in. You need to work your ass off to break free of the middle stakes. What happens if you return to great profitability again and earn another 20k over 12 months? You'll go broke again, you're barely covering living expenses. In short: Shit or get off the can.

I agree with u that I have to put my biggest effort into building my roll and start to play vs better competition to improve myself. But I really can't put any more hrs in then that, I feel pretty much exhausted from last 2 month. It was actualy 160k hands, since I didn't post my stats for 25nl, cause its kind of embarrasing, cause I basically broke even for 30k hands.

Anyways, my hat of to people who can play more monthly without being affected by the stress that comes with it. I can't really spend more time then I am allready doing cause of a health related issue of somebody in my family. I don't want to go into more details here, cause it's personal, let's just say it takes away a lot of the spare time I have. It's one of the reasons also that I decided to get into online poker to make more monies then in my old job and be home more.

There is no magic button or paragraph that someone can write to make you stop breaking even. Maynard is giving the only concrete advice there is, play as much as you can. That is the only way to get better in poker, period. Just keep playing and trying harder. IF you think you are playing your max and trying your hardest but still can no longer win than poker is not for you and quit now. Period.

Maynard what u think about me then ? I played 200 000 hands this year

On December 09 2008 16:22 Tycho wrote: maynard is right. what's the point of going 'pro' when you only play 4 hours a day ? :s

are you serious?

-_- these ppl.

On December 09 2008 16:52 the cleaner wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2008 16:32 Maynard! wrote:   On December 09 2008 16:22 the cleaner wrote: Dude, seriously playing 8 tables is not for everybody. I'm actualy pretty impressed how some players manage to do it. But most 8tabling regulars at 50 and 100nl play really disciplined, but really weak postflop imo, missing a ton of value in obvious spots. I'm full of leaks myself btw, that's why I came here for advice. Right I understand. 4-tables is fine. From your numbers you seem like a very strong player. Close to 4BB/100 over400k hands is extemely SOLID. You won't find many people at all who could post up that big of a BB over 400k hands. You've had a bad stretch of 100k but this happens. You're gonna win again for sure. My point is this: you're a solid player with a great rate of return but you're broke. Why? You don't put enough time into your game. You'll never break free of 50/100 NL putting in the hours you put in. You need to work your ass off to break free of the middle stakes. What happens if you return to great profitability again and earn another 20k over 12 months? You'll go broke again, you're barely covering living expenses. In short: Shit or get off the can. I agree with u that I have to put my biggest effort into building my roll and start to play vs better competition to improve myself. But I really can't put any more hrs in then that, I feel pretty much exhausted from last 2 month. It was actualy 160k hands, since I didn't post my stats for 25nl, cause its kind of embarrasing, cause I basically broke even for 30k hands. Anyways, my hat of to people who can play more monthly without being affected by the stress that comes with it. I can't really spend more time then I am allready doing cause of a health related issue of somebody in my family. I don't want to go into more details here, cause it's personal, let's just say it takes away a lot of the spare time I have. It's one of the reasons also that I decided to get into online poker to make more monies then in my old job and be home more.

You'll break out of it man. You're a strong winner. Just let the variance monster take its course.

a 4ptbb/100 winner cannot have a 100k break even strech btw, i had a 100k breakeven strech in the past in 100nl, and that was cuz my edge was really small, improve your game.

On December 09 2008 17:11 VanDerMeyde wrote: Maynard what u think about me then ? I played 200 000 hands this year

You want me to compare apples to oranges?

Obviously some will need to play less than others. Some guy living in his moms garage who needs money only to rent videos and go out occasionally doesn't need to play that much. Most of his money earned goes directly to his bankroll that he can later use to move up. His monthly expenses may be 1-2 buyins. Even if he rarely plays he can have aggressively move up and be very loose with his move up. Someone who depends on the income with real life expenses cannot do as much.

Also the need to play more goes down as you rise in stakes. A 50 nl pro is going to have to put in insane amounts of hours. Even if this means that he has to play when he's not feeling well. He needs to play as long as hes profitable. It is absolutely important that he builds his bankroll so he can eat and move up. If he always waits til hes 100% sure his bb/100 will be great but he'll also be dead broke after a month or two. Same cannot be said for a 1k nl pro. They can get away with playing only when they're 100%.

A 50 nl pro needs to focus strongly on earning money. A 1k NL pro needs to focus strongly on improving game.

On December 09 2008 17:26 Baal wrote: a 4ptbb/100 winner cannot have a 100k break even strech btw, i had a 100k breakeven strech in the past in 100nl, and that was cuz my edge was really small, improve your game.

He may not be playing optimally but that doesn't mean that hes not capable of being 4bb/100 winner or was a winner at that level.

maynard: thanks for the support. Since I'm playing much more these last weeks then usual I probably will play more hands/month once I start winning again

Baal: I totaly agree with you and I am sure that I have made a lot of mistakes while on this breakeven stretch. Some real spewy shit, I posted some hands and I looked at them a couple of days later and I was like wtf was I thinking bluffing that station or calling down in spots where I'm obviously beat. Hopefully this will make me a stronger player and will make me look more into my game. For some reason, just posting about it and sharing it with others allready helped. Thanks

On December 09 2008 17:32 Maynard! wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2008 17:26 Baal wrote: a 4ptbb/100 winner cannot have a 100k break even strech btw, i had a 100k breakeven strech in the past in 100nl, and that was cuz my edge was really small, improve your game. He may not be playing optimally but that doesn't mean that hes not capable of being 4bb/100 winner or was a winner at that level.

i never claimed he is not capable of that, all im saying is he was NOT beating the game at 4ptbb/100 cuz at that winrate this kind of run is almost impossible.

On December 09 2008 17:51 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2008 17:32 Maynard! wrote:   On December 09 2008 17:26 Baal wrote: a 4ptbb/100 winner cannot have a 100k break even strech btw, i had a 100k breakeven strech in the past in 100nl, and that was cuz my edge was really small, improve your game. He may not be playing optimally but that doesn't mean that hes not capable of being 4bb/100 winner or was a winner at that level. i never claimed he is not capable of that, all im saying is he was NOT beating the game at 4ptbb/100 cuz at that winrate this kind of run is almost impossible.

Yea I was 4.5ptbb/100 over almost 500k hands. I posted my stats why would I change them ? Obviously I'm playing bad now cause of the breakeven stretch and making lots of mistakes.

It's tough to give you anything solid just based on stats, but the first thing that caught my attention is that your WSD is fairly high, especially for these stakes (where there's no need for light calldowns).

I agree with Maynard about work ethic. I have great respect for the hardcore grinders (though most of them are not good). Leatherass is the player I respect the most.

I just checked, it was like 380k hands, this was last quarter of 2007 and 2008 till oct. I was thinking about some 100nl hands too, that's why I mistakely said 500k. 380k/500k doesn't make much difference tho.

On December 09 2008 17:55 the cleaner wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2008 17:51 Baal wrote:   On December 09 2008 17:32 Maynard! wrote:   On December 09 2008 17:26 Baal wrote: a 4ptbb/100 winner cannot have a 100k break even strech btw, i had a 100k breakeven strech in the past in 100nl, and that was cuz my edge was really small, improve your game. He may not be playing optimally but that doesn't mean that hes not capable of being 4bb/100 winner or was a winner at that level. i never claimed he is not capable of that, all im saying is he was NOT beating the game at 4ptbb/100 cuz at that winrate this kind of run is almost impossible. Yea I was 4.5ptbb/100 over almost 500k hands. I posted my stats why would I change them ? Obviously I'm playing bad now cause of the breakeven stretch and making lots of mistakes.

i meant on that 100k break even stretch not previously