1/3 Deep vs Carrotsnake and fish

Flamez is carrotsnake, a fairly tricky regular. Good hand reader, solid overall, except he can be extremely spewy at times.

Villain in this hand is a fish, but no specific reads. He has been limping pf, fairly passive postflop. No showdowns yet.

Submitted by : sooon2b

Full Tilt Poker Game #3820521191: Table Draga (deep) - $1.50/$3 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:46:30 ET - 2007/10/11
Seat 1: JadooME ($454.40)
Seat 4: Dahoffman ($614.35)
Seat 5: Hero ($1,038.05)
Seat 6: Flamez13 ($600)
Dahoffman posts the small blind of $1.50
Hero posts the big blind of $3
The button is in seat #1

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
Flamez13 has 15 seconds left to act
Flamez13 raises to $10.50
JadooME calls $10.50
Dahoffman folds
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero raises to $47.50
Flamez13 has 15 seconds left to act
Flamez13 calls $37
JadooME calls $37

Flop (Pot : $144.00)

   
Hero has 15 seconds left to act
Hero bets $126
Flamez13 calls $126
JadooME raises to $406.90, and is all in

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez shove

Actually, assuming carrot is stacking of here with whatever he called the flop with, theres gonna be a 146$ overlay.... So because my AA fairs well vs carrots range, how much does that overlay affect my equity vs other villains range....?

I dont have pokerstove so if someone could run the equity for me

Carrots range - QQ,88,55,67dd,69dd,79dd,T9dd,J9dd,JTdd,AQdd,QJdd,QTdd,Q9dd,KQdd --- I am not sure about some of the Qxdd hands, but were deep so I am assuming hes calling with those...

Villain - I am not sure what to assume here. Do we assume he can have the same range as carrot, and is shoving all of carrots range here?

Whats my equity vs 2 villains with that range?

I cant get pstove on my comp atm FYI

you have a pair vs carrotsnake
ez allin

no one will do ur pokerstove for u and why is this in the high stakes section?

can you guys seriously pull your heads out of your asses? I realize who carrotsnake fucking is, and he is not nearly as bad as you guys think he is. There is also another player in the pot that has 450$, which is a good chunk of the pot.

Its in HS because its 1/3 deep. if its the wrong forum, sorry, but i figured this would be fine in HSNL considering most of the msnl posters wont be as versed in deepstack poker as hsnl'ers would be.

high stakes is good, it's a $600 buyin.

and i do think this is a shove. the fish can have tons of stuff you beat, and carrotsnake almost never has you beaten. just get your money in now, because carrotsnake is almost 100% folding no matter what you do.

so really, just call this shove and call if carrot shoves over, or reshove, or w/e, doesn't matter, long as the money goes in the pot.

only time i ever consider folding here is if i think the fish is extremely scared money.

Couldnt tell if the fish was scared money, maybe? and the reason I did not call is because I was fairly certain there was no way he was folding. His call indicates he has a draw and is trying to get as much $ in the pot as possible, or he has a set.

I guess I just wanna know what my equity is vs those 2 guys with the same range(including 2pair hands too, 58 and Q8. So the range id input is

QQ,88,55,67dd,69dd,79dd,T9dd,J9dd,JTdd,AQdd,QJdd,QTdd,Q9dd,KQdd,58,Q8

On October 11 2007 03:23 RaSZi wrote: fwiw i dont think ur 3 bet is too small.. if u make over3bets with AA KK preflop u play ur hand face up .. u wouldn't make it 55 with 56dd

why would he not make it 55 with 56dd if he does it with good hands? I dont think a good player will raise less with worse hands, and soon2 is the pretty good I think

On October 11 2007 03:23 RaSZi wrote: fwiw i dont think ur 3 bet is too small.. if u make over3bets with AA KK preflop u play ur hand face up .. u wouldn't make it 55 with 56dd

i agree with Raszi, i dont do the whole "raise bigger.. you are deep" shit... its so transparent and its not great to do so with hands like SC, i rather widen my range so they know i dont give good implied odds if im raising with trashy hands too.


anyway this hand is pretty tricky hand given that one is a fish... and the other is a spewtard with a huge range... i think we gotta play the strenght of our hand.

yeah i agree 3bet pf is fine

but seriously, we have AA in a 3bet pot on a drawy board against a shortstack and carrotsnake. put the money in.

We are vs 2 players that are essentially all in though. I know 100% carrot is not going anywhere. He MIGHT have KK here and fold it to any other action, but thats about all I can think of.

As far as the 3b size, for some reason I thought it was raised to like 15pf. Looking at it my bets slightly over 4x here so its not that bad. Also, if i were raising to 55 with AA, my 3b size for everything else would be that.


I just wanna know my equity vs their ranges.

this hand is so straight forward soon2bUST

im behind their fucking range you buffoon. i dont know why i bother posting when there are so many fucking morons in this forum with their heads so far up their asses. steal city, why the fuck do you bother posting? please give me some reasoning as to how this is so straight forward. We are 200BB deep. I have 1 pair. There is one person AI before me, one person that I am 99.9% certain is calling the shove, considering he already flatted my flop bet. Oh yeah, its a 3bet pot too. Just from that description alone this seems like a fold.

Steal city, I dont know who you are, but you seriously need to just stop posting. You have contributed nothing to this thread.

yeah steel city, ill gladly play you HU. you are a buffoon and should not even be allowed to post in this forum.

On October 11 2007 01:38 sooon2b wrote: Actually, assuming carrot is stacking of here with whatever he called the flop with, theres gonna be a 146$ overlay.... So because my AA fairs well vs carrots range, how much does that overlay affect my equity vs other villains range....? I dont have pokerstove so if someone could run the equity for me Carrots range - QQ,88,55,67dd,69dd,79dd,T9dd,J9dd,JTdd,AQdd,QJdd,QTdd,Q9dd,KQdd --- I am not sure about some of the Qxdd hands, but were deep so I am assuming hes calling with those... Villain - I am not sure what to assume here. Do we assume he can have the same range as carrot, and is shoving all of carrots range here? Whats my equity vs 2 villains with that range?

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 10.923% 10.92% 00.00% 22686 0.00 { AcAh }
Hand 1: 44.538% 44.54% 00.00% 92502 0.00 { QQ, 88, 55, AdQd, KdQd, QdJd, QdTd, Qd9d, Jd9d, Td9d, 9d7d, 7d6d }
Hand 2: 44.538% 44.54% 00.00% 92502 0.00 { QQ, 88, 55, AdQd, KdQd, QdJd, QdTd, Qd9d, Jd9d, Td9d, 9d7d, 7d6d }

But you said villain is a fish so that range sounds a little bit ridiculous for him?

HU for posessions NOW!

This just might be one of the easiest shoves I've seen in a while. I pretty much only think about folding this if you replace Myth for the fish in this hand. Never be worried about what carrotsnake has here, your crushing his range. :-P

Eh, I dont get it. Why would you not want to go broke here?

what i don't understand is...why do you think carrotsnake has you beaten?

On October 12 2007 04:57 [vital]Myth wrote: what i don't understand is...why do you think carrotsnake has you beaten?

He's scared of him obv... lol, 100% the fish has you beat before carrotsnake does in this spot. If you think you are good vs the fish, then ur decision is instant.

I just talked to carrotsnake about this hand in depth. He said it was definitely a fold. His reasoning was that basically, I am rarely ahead of BOTH their ranges here. Which I completely agree with. However, Jonny, you were right about him calling with AQ/KQ here, and obviously folding to a shove or any further action. That changes things a bit, but its prob still a fold? I do think maybe the fish would stack off with AQ here though.

Also, I agree the fish is ahead of me more than carrotsnake is. However, its not like carrot never has me beat here.

On October 12 2007 13:08 sooon2b wrote: I just talked to carrotsnake about this hand in depth. He said it was definitely a fold. His reasoning was that basically, I am rarely ahead of BOTH their ranges here. Which I completely agree with. However, Jonny, you were right about him calling with AQ/KQ here, and obviously folding to a shove or any further action. That changes things a bit, but its prob still a fold? I do think maybe the fish would stack off with AQ here though.

you don't have to be "ahead" of both ranges, you just need to have enough equity to get it in with all the money already out in the pot.

This is definitely a shove, i haven't read the thread though, but i'd be very happy with this result post flop if i'm in your position. tons of $ in the pot and usually you will end headsup with the shover with easily over 50% average equity.

rofl he's either messing w/ u or he's a donk... as i recall he's def a lagtard but not a donk. He'd def make more money playing at least a tiny bit tighter but he knows the fundamentals.

anyhow, you're on for that HU competition

BUT.... I am on tour now.... my band http://www.SG-AE.com just started our tour a few days ago.... which is also why i haven't been able to respond to ur message. The tour will be over in less than a month... but I am also moving outside the US and finding a place to live right afterwards. HOWEVER, when I actually start playing poker again I would like to take on ur challenge. I propose a first to 5K at 3/6. We can schedule this for the 13th... so a month from now. I'll even be a little rusty

anyway, obv it's really really immoral for you or me then though to ask someone to play for us or shadow us. If anyone thinks soon2b can't be trusted and has a story to give creedence plz PM me.

the 13th is coming...gogo HU FOR POSSESIONS

i doubt soon2b will go through with this

push it to the limit.

looking forward too this-.

mmmmm i am really confused as to why we think carrotsnake has us beat enough here to justify a fold..... i think we have to shove here 100% of the time and i am a nit =.=

This is like the most standard shove of all time, and he still doesn't get it

This must be a shove, always. I would be worried if a nit flatted my cbet, but carrotsnake, no worries.

carrotsnake sucks

On October 12 2007 13:08 sooon2b wrote:His reasoning was that basically, I am rarely ahead of BOTH their ranges here.

rofl

On October 13 2007 19:21 Steal City wrote: rofl he's either messing w/ u or he's a donk... as i recall he's def a lagtard but not a donk. He'd def make more money playing at least a tiny bit tighter but he knows the fundamentals. anyhow, you're on for that HU competition BUT.... I am on tour now.... my band http://www.SG-AE.com just started our tour a few days ago.... which is also why i haven't been able to respond to ur message. The tour will be over in less than a month... but I am also moving outside the US and finding a place to live right afterwards. HOWEVER, when I actually start playing poker again I would like to take on ur challenge. I propose a first to 5K at 3/6. We can schedule this for the 13th... so a month from now. I'll even be a little rusty anyway, obv it's really really immoral for you or me then though to ask someone to play for us or shadow us. If anyone thinks soon2b can't be trusted and has a story to give creedence plz PM me.

hey sorry, did not see this. Who are you again? I will do first to 3k and we have to refresh any tables that we both have 200bb or more. Cant do 5k atm because dont have that much online right now due to school and such. Anyways, I am down for this. As far as when, not sure I am pretty busy. Just pm me or get in contact with me on AIM.

Also, please dont question my integrity. I would NEVER cheat in an event of this nature. I also have no idea who you are so I hope I am actually better lol.

rofl ok, it's on then...

why did u wait till 2 days ago to accept? I have plans the next few nights and i'm in bangkok which is like 12 hours difference from EST. I don't like this 3K shit though... HU has so much volatility
5K is pretty necessary, otherwise it doesn't mean shit. I'm sure you can find someone here ez to exchange w/ u from FTP or whatever. Anyhow, let's plan this for either this weekend or the next weekend. (I may have to go out of town this weekend idk)

ok looks like i'll stay in bangkok this weekend so let's make it sometime then... ok?

fwiw, unless theres something i dont know about him, that looks like the worst pokerstove range ever.

he might flat Qxdd on flop, specifically AQdd but not shoving any other combo draw is straight retarded. i mean you have 67dd in his range after he flatted the flop for a fourth of his stack..

his range after flop should really be set, tt-aa, QT-AQ, AQdd/KQdd, naked flush draw