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Getting your shit together starter pack

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RiKD    United States. Nov 07 2017 22:07. Posts 4360

So, this was in the ROFL thread and pretty ROFL



It got me thinking though it isn't a bad starter pack but surely sub-optimal. Where are the improvements?

Peterson has a lot of good stuff to say about responsibility but pretty questionable beyond that. No fap probably isn't bad but I don't believe it will make too much of a difference from experience. I would rather put some Kant and ethics books in there. Some Sartre, some Dosteovski, existentialist stuff, maybe Waiting for Godot that sort of thing. Denial of Death. Nietzsche. I am sure I am missing a bunch. Cleaning the apartment is a definite. Studying or just acquiring useful knowledge is definitely a definite. Exercise yes. It would be interesting to see if some people think playing tennis is better or doing yoga or doing jiu jitsu. I am currently trying to get my shit together and find a place I can deadlift a lot of weight and do kettlebell swings. Meal prep - I instantly think of a vegan diet. There is a way to learn about fashion but I think it just takes time. It is mostly about achieving an authentic style that works for oneself. I am not trying to look like Team Vulgarian that is for damn sure. Waking up early yes sure. This Haircut - ROFL.

Overall, ROFL but I am curious to see what people would add. Is it just getting your shit together to DOMINATE DOMINANCE hierarchies or are we trying to live a finite life? Are they the same thing? People have been discussing this since Socrates and Plato. How do we best live this finite life?

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Stroggoz   New Zealand. Nov 07 2017 23:05. Posts 3604

Did you know that kant made a rigourous ethical argument against masturbation using the categorical imperative? The basic jist of it is that you are using yourself as a means to an end when you do it. There is a paper that mentions this by a well known harvard psychologist called joshua greene, called 'kants sick joke'.

pretty sure for most people, getting ur shit together is for the obvious reason of living life in happiness, dignity, and fufillment, and a sense of achievement. If you dont get your shit together you will become old and look back on life and ask yourself, why did i bother living?

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 07/11/2017 23:19

whammbot   Belarus. Nov 08 2017 01:10. Posts 70

I see all these fat people nowadays dressing like everybody else and it's hilarious. dress your body type and pick shoes that fit your overall frame
I've noticed people who do this can wear anything and still look good even if they arent ripped or go to the gym everyday. as long as you are not obese there are ways to make clothes look way better on you if you just don't blindly buy stuff you see in pictures of guys who are built differently thinking that it looks the same on you.

shoe size matters, if youre 6'5 with a big frame but got a size 9 feet it's going to look terrible no matter what shoe you buy, so you buy a size 10 or 11, stuff something inside those shoes

 Last edit: 08/11/2017 01:15

Loco   Canada. Nov 08 2017 05:31. Posts 18909

"How do we best live this finite life?"

A few things come to mind. Not pandering to an immediate self all the time (being able to delay gratification for the sake of a more satisfied future self). Being indifferent to other people's opinions. Once survival needs are taken care of (prosaic living), doing things that don't make you feel like you are wasting your time. Ideally, things that embed your life with richness (poetic living).

This quote rings very true to me: "Happiness results from esteem, earned in the right way, from the people that matter." The right way is debatable, of course, and I don't believe there is a universal one, but there are clear constancies delineating it for all.


"Getting your shit together" is really just about being curious and consistent. If you're curious you'll explore, and you'll find things worth doing; if you're consistent you won't be distracted from it often. Well, it's also probably about having good sense when it comes to prioritization as well. We have competing desires at all times and sorting through them and prioritizing the ones that are more likely to lead to good things is a difficult task.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 08/11/2017 05:36

RiKD    United States. Nov 08 2017 06:17. Posts 4360


  On November 07 2017 22:05 Stroggoz wrote:
Did you know that kant made a rigourous ethical argument against masturbation using the categorical imperative? The basic jist of it is that you are using yourself as a means to an end when you do it. There is a paper that mentions this by a well known harvard psychologist called joshua greene, called 'kants sick joke'.

pretty sure for most people, getting ur shit together is for the obvious reason of living life in happiness, dignity, and fufillment, and a sense of achievement. If you dont get your shit together you will become old and look back on life and ask yourself, why did i bother living?




My man Kant. Masturbation is a surrogate to actually having sex with women but it can be fun. I don't feel like tracking down the awesome Martin Amis piece on having a wank when you want to have a wank... I have already posted it on here multiple times. I went 7 months with out masturbating and I don't think it motivated me more to sleep with a woman or motivated me to do anything really. I do think masturbation and particularly porn conditions people to look at women more as sex objects. I think of the times I have masturbated with out porn and it is images of x in the backless red dress or y in the yoga pants. With porn it is pretty explicit objectification. However, when I wasn't masturbating I would go to the beach and still find myself looking at asses and breasts and shapes. I am sure it is conditioned but I am also sure that it is biological.


RiKD    United States. Nov 08 2017 06:42. Posts 4360


  On November 08 2017 04:31 Loco wrote:
"How do we best live this finite life?"

A few things come to mind. Not pandering to an immediate self all the time (being able to delay gratification for the sake of a more satisfied future self).



Yeah. Thankfully I am pretty good at this one. Being a slave to screens or really anything is -ev. I have talked about this before but even getting control of fidgeting and nervous behavior is the ultimate goal. Some are better than others. I used to compulsively pick hang nails. I don't anymore for some reason. That stuff is really fascinating. Everyone's different fidgeting and what it means.


  Being indifferent to other people's opinions.



This is a huge one but quite difficult to master. I mean it is in relation to the last one in a way of being very calm. Calm is not the right word. Self-assured. Ok. In the present. I don't have that kind of confidence in all things and certainly not all the time that I am not effected by others' opinions. It is something to strive for.


  Once survival needs are taken care of (prosaic living), doing things that don't make you feel like you are wasting your time.
Ideally, things that embed your life with richness (poetic living).



If I could only walk the streets of Paris for a croissant and cafe au lait.


  This quote rings very true to me: "Happiness results from esteem, earned in the right way, from the people that matter." The right way is debatable, of course, and I don't believe there is a universal one, but there are clear constancies delineating it for all.



I am maybe happiest when I am helping people. Then I can start questioning myself and feel like a piece of shit because I don't have my own apartment or a girlfriend. I actually think a great haircut can add esteem but it is tricky. Grooming for 15 min. and checking oneself out in the mirror through out the day certainly does not.


RiKD    United States. Nov 08 2017 23:00. Posts 4360

"How do we best live a finite life?"

Be honest.

Find some sort of a tribe. Conformity sucks so don't do that but there are people out there that I found I really like and get a long with. Human connection goes a long way.


RiKD    United States. Nov 08 2017 23:16. Posts 4360

Self-esteem is such an interesting topic. It can go up with a nice outfit and a great haircut but then I am checking myself in the mirror to make sure it looks good or hasn't changed. That isn't real self esteem. Although this one time I was in a great headspace and wearing a sharp blazer with a rose in the lapel and never gave a shit how I looked and was charming and gregarious all night. Of course, I end up back at the hotel with a woman wet through her yoga pants. Then there was a chance at a three some. Then the sister came into the room and was hooking up with the other girl in front of the sister but we really didn't think anything of it at the time. Maybe that is one of my regrets I was unable to close on the full blown orgy. It was quite fun and liberating regardless. I don't think it is the type of thing to chase though.

How about giving a homeless man a ride and not telling anyone about it?

Helping someone through a tough time and not telling anyone about it?

If I am among tribesmen and being honest the esteem can be unbreakable, unshakeable.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Nov 08 2017 23:33. Posts 7915

I feel like being able to make the right choices in terms of when to pick delayed or instant gratification is the most important thing anyone could ever learn


RiKD    United States. Nov 08 2017 23:34. Posts 4360

So, what is it? DOMINATING DOMINANCE hierarchies and being THE MAN!

Is it Christian values?

Is it Buddhist values?

Kantian ethics?

It's probably any of them depending on the person.

"Do esteem-able things in the eyes of the people that matter." Like Loco said.

Were there Nazis in Germany gaining esteem through killing Jews? Like they were that deluded that they could lay down their head at night thinking they are doing great work?


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Nov 09 2017 00:24. Posts 7915

You're looking for a standardized value system, which doesn't exist. If there was one, life would be much easier. The values differ from one culture to another. Naturally Nazi Germany is a pretty extreme case and I doubt there were too many people feeling increased value of their self due to killing jews, except a group of deranged people.

Tbh I just read " A Clockwork Orange" and it hints at the possibility of people being born evil, which is kind of an interesting topic. Now, our natural state should be related to altruism as it enables us as species to preserve the survival of our genes in future generations. Anyway if we're able to be born evil, then the whole concept of value systems kind of hits a paradox.


lucky331   . Nov 09 2017 03:29. Posts 852

lol.

just accept your fate. you will be happier for it.


lucky331   . Nov 09 2017 03:31. Posts 852

if you're a loser then you're a loser but so the fuck what?


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Nov 09 2017 04:29. Posts 3604

just responding to above comments:

christian and buddhist values are a far better code of living than kantian ethics for sure. Philosophers typically create far worse ethical systems than average people. no one takes utilitarian and deontological systems seriously in reality, since they are far too simplistic for every day living. The law is what we take seriously, and although it is highly flawed, it takes into account many complexities and intricacies of every day life rather than just moulding people to an abstract rule or set of axioms.

As to the answer of whether nazi's could possibly be that deluded, you can find this out yourself from reading himmler's diaries or joseph goebbel's dairies-ive skimmed some of their dairy entries, and you can see that of course they were that deluded. It is a rare person who would accept that they are completely evil and go around doing evil things anyway. It's much more common to just convince your evil doing is justified somehow.

Although moral values differ from culture to culture, our biological endowment is similar. So we are all fixed with similar genetic pre-programming and it is reasonable to beleive-given modern science, that we all share a similar moral faculty which will undergo an ontogenetic development that is shaped to some extent by our cultural surroundings, similar to how language acquisition works. So we should be able to find common ground on what is right and wrong across cultures.

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 09/11/2017 04:56

Floofy   Canada. Nov 09 2017 08:04. Posts 8608


  On November 09 2017 02:29 lucky331 wrote:
lol.

just accept your fate. you will be happier for it.



This pretty much.

Most people are never happy because they always want more and more. And think that "later when x happens, i will finally be happy"
I'm not saying you shouldn't try to achieve X. Having better life conditions is great.
But i feel like a lot of people don't appreciate their current life enough.

james9994: make note dont play against floofy, ;( 

RiKD    United States. Nov 09 2017 20:33. Posts 4360


  On November 09 2017 03:29 Stroggoz wrote:
just responding to above comments:

christian and buddhist values are a far better code of living than kantian ethics for sure. Philosophers typically create far worse ethical systems than average people. no one takes utilitarian and deontological systems seriously in reality, since they are far too simplistic for every day living. The law is what we take seriously, and although it is highly flawed, it takes into account many complexities and intricacies of every day life rather than just moulding people to an abstract rule or set of axioms.

As to the answer of whether nazi's could possibly be that deluded, you can find this out yourself from reading himmler's diaries or joseph goebbel's dairies-ive skimmed some of their dairy entries, and you can see that of course they were that deluded. It is a rare person who would accept that they are completely evil and go around doing evil things anyway. It's much more common to just convince your evil doing is justified somehow.

Although moral values differ from culture to culture, our biological endowment is similar. So we are all fixed with similar genetic pre-programming and it is reasonable to beleive-given modern science, that we all share a similar moral faculty which will undergo an ontogenetic development that is shaped to some extent by our cultural surroundings, similar to how language acquisition works. So we should be able to find common ground on what is right and wrong across cultures.




An example I think of is how they spit everywhere and cut in lines in China. To the Western world that is barbaric but they think it is fair. John Rawls in "Theory of Justice" talks about ignorance veils as the decider. There cannot be cultural biases involved. Ethics can be a tough topic. Nietzsche could never quite get it. I suppose it is just easier to go with Christian ideals but so so lacking in my opinion. You'll have the anti-contraceptives crowd and the anti-LGBT crowd. We also have laws based completely on a free will perspective and God in the courtrooms. Obviously, compatibilism and true separation of church and state is best.

I want to write more about esteem and how it relates to this because I got myself kind of fascinated by it at the moment but I have to go to work. I can ask myself "how can I be useful?" in a general level but working the hours I am scheduled to the best of my ability is typically going to answer that question. That brings esteem regardless of what the job is. It is interesting to think about say Doctors who have an occupation typically thought of highly in our society. Do they derive more esteem through their work? I would think the answer would have to be yes but I am an unsure if anyone could answer completely truthfully or reliably. Society does not really value my job but if I do a good job I do get some esteem. I think chasing the perfect job can get people into trouble.


RiKD    United States. Nov 10 2017 04:31. Posts 4360

Could the getting your shit together starter pack boil down to getting a good job. Whether that is studying and getting good grades in a good major or working hard for promotions and good jobs. I brought up doctor earlier. They are in a very unique position of making a lot of money and helping people. So, regardless of the tribe or the social sphere it is difficult not to have a innate respect for doctors. Must we ask what does society want and value? Shall we tailor our lives around that? Would our lives be easier? Would there be more bliss?

I would wager most buddhist monks are more comfortable in their skin and content than any Wall Street billionaire.

I wish to be somewhere in between all this stuff but I don't know if it's possible. It might have to be all or nothing. I want to be my own person. I can go off the rails with anything but I don't want abstinence in all things.

I am of the belief that we have to go out and do things to gain esteem and self-esteem. It doesn't have to be winning in business. It can be helping someone. I think we have been through this before.


lucky331   . Nov 10 2017 07:23. Posts 852


  On November 10 2017 03:31 RiKD wrote:
Could the getting your shit together starter pack boil down to getting a good job. Whether that is studying and getting good grades in a good major or working hard for promotions and good jobs. I brought up doctor earlier. They are in a very unique position of making a lot of money and helping people. So, regardless of the tribe or the social sphere it is difficult not to have a innate respect for doctors. Must we ask what does society want and value? Shall we tailor our lives around that? Would our lives be easier? Would there be more bliss?

I would wager most buddhist monks are more comfortable in their skin and content than any Wall Street billionaire.

I wish to be somewhere in between all this stuff but I don't know if it's possible. It might have to be all or nothing. I want to be my own person. I can go off the rails with anything but I don't want abstinence in all things.

I am of the belief that we have to go out and do things to gain esteem and self-esteem. It doesn't have to be winning in business. It can be helping someone. I think we have been through this before.




more like getting a better mindset. i can be a bum but have a better outlook in life.


RiKD    United States. Nov 10 2017 17:37. Posts 4360

Yeah, but it is difficult for the bum to have great self-esteem unless they have Christianity or Buddhism or strong delusions. They could have a sense of strong gratitude especially if they have been in worse places. I don't really know. I haven't met many homeless people but the ones I have met were typically struggling. In some instances they were doing their best to keep an upbeat vibe but I sensed a storm brewing. Either they didn't really know where they were going to sleep that night or didn't really know how they were going to get some crack or both. It is almost impossible to have self-esteem as a problem alcohol or drug user. Most of society has the opposite of respect and admiration. I'd imagine one could get a tribe of fellow hobos and it might not be so bad. I didn't mean to say all homeless people are addicted to alcohol or drugs. Many have untreated mental illness which is no walk in the park. I have heard many just want to be homeless. So, yes, a homeless person can surely have a better mindset and living more successfully (can mean a lot of different things) than a doctor in some big house with a wife and kids but in general I just don't think that is going to be the case.


Loco   Canada. Nov 10 2017 21:10. Posts 18909

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken) 

 
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