Getting your shit together starter pack - Page 9

Couldn't read anymore after "as much as I like Trump"

or should I say I would not read anymore.

^ Same. I think it's fair to say you can always safely ignore anything that follows that sequence of words and come out of it for the better.

even though I dislike trump, santafairys post was thought provoking.

when you talk to ppl do u ask them first whether they voted for trump then proceed if they are worthy for your attention?

On December 26 2017 03:45 RiKD wrote: Couldn't read anymore after "as much as I like Trump"

if I can read your deranged blogs about porn girlfriends you can suck it up, bragging about your own illiteracy doesn't show up anywhere in confucius

it was a minor example of an ancillary point, has nothing to do with politics but turned out to be a good trigger test I guess

one of the things you have to realize is there are people who are better than you, who outclass you in some dimensions, know more than you do, have a better understanding of certain things than you do, in some cases it's not a significant difference. for example, you could have been an insurance salesman, or still could be, or a psychology professor, or an electrician, or dentist, these things maybe were possible futures that overlapped with you, or it's all within your grasp to understand at least whether you become that or not (nobody can be everything so don't sweat it), not a big deal

in other cases the person is better than you but in a way that's not useful to your growth, for example the world record holder for extinguishing candles with farts, it's like good for you then I guess but useless

in still other cases the person is better than you in ways that specifically result in you having a society with roads and electricity and internet that you can surf and wank and blog and troll from, the world runs on testosterone and the people who got everything you like built are almost always assholes, including the trumps of the world who do actual literal building, anyway who do you like? jerry seinfeld? garry kasparov? they think they're better than you, and it's not because they're assholes at heart, it's because they really are better than you and their interface with the world has to filter what's valuable to them accordingly

an idiot responds to this kind of thing by trying to have an asshole competition, but that's not what the competent person is doing fundamentally, it's just a side-effect, the real answer is to yourself be better

anyway in the case of trump it was a simple point, this is a 70 year old fatass who sleeps 5 hours a night and went from nothing to taking over a whole political party and becoming leader of the free world in less than two years, it wasn't a political reference but a biographical one, because I mean this in the most non-insulting way possible, you could never do that even if you wanted (nobody ever did that) no matter how much smarter you think you are than bush or trump or whoever's in fashion to hate, and that's worth understanding, this is someone who's busy every day and constantly gets dealt new problems and has to somehow have a way to reliably figure things out and make decisions, it's worth understanding that people who achieve things do not turn off, that these people have something valuable that you might not have

no one field is going to give you the foundation you need, including philosophy which even if you sort the best is a bunch of dead guys in their armchairs with usually no other expertise and when they do have actual expertise it far eclipses whatever philosophy they're making up, like descartes for example, they don't have anywhere near all the answers and you need to look at the living world, because you're alive, can't stay in your own head

maybe a related realization is that there's some information that's not on the internet

I get the point thou. F.example I used to buy a lot of vegan products like falafel, but vegans on LP convinced me to stop buyin those. And my body functions better without these products (especially soya). So I get it. Follow the guys you like and believe in + use people you dislike as a guidebook for the opposite of what they say. Very effective. And both can now be viewed as a resource.

On December 27 2017 12:51 dnagardi wrote: even though I dislike trump, santafairys post was thought provoking. when you talk to ppl do u ask them first whether they voted for trump then proceed if they are worthy for your attention?

Oh please. Voting for Trump then is in no way the same as liking Trump now. It's not good, but it's not nearly as bad as the latter. Time and the ability to change one's mind is a thing, you know? Also, asking someone this question is completely different from listening to someone who gratuitously mentions it and choosing to no longer listen to what follows.

Our minds make rapid judgments about people based on limited information all the time. It's unavoidable. If you pride yourself on listening to everyone with equal interest at all times, then you really don't have much self-respect. And your high tolerance for BS is something to be remedied asap. There are many ways in which someone quickly hints at the fact that they are most definitely not worth listening to or engaging with. It's always a gamble of course, we're not prescient, but it's about whether the gamble is +EV or not over time. I'm basically saying that I am very confident that, over time, it's easy to know that I can use my time in a better way than listening to the "I like Trump" crowd. It's also not necessary to listen to this crowd in order to protect against bias. You can listen to someone who is more neutral or ambivalent towards Trump or who is simply writing or speaking in a descriptive, non-judgmental way about specific issues surrounding him, making partisanship a non-issue.

On December 27 2017 16:37 VanDerMeyde wrote: I get the point thou. F.example I used to buy a lot of vegan products like falafel, but vegans on LP convinced me to stop buyin those. And my body functions better without these products (especially soya). So I get it. Follow the guys you like and believe in + use people you dislike as a guidebook for the opposite of what they say. Very effective. And both can now be viewed as a resource.

That's incredibly childish and irrational. So If I say I am strongly against sun gazing and breatharianism, that might convince you to start doing it just to be a contrarian? What an utter moron you are. Just wow.

"Follow people you like" yeah because people you like can't possibly be wrong about anything. Your preferences are always right. Including when you're part of a cult.

On December 27 2017 13:11 Santafairy wrote: jerry seinfeld? garry kasparov? they think they're better than you, and it's not because they're assholes at heart, it's because they really are better than you and their interface with the world has to filter what's valuable to them accordingly

Good last two posts but Seinfeld is like the most overrated comedian ever (good sitcom, boring stand-up). Rik might actually be a better comedian if he tried stand-up.

I don't think it's a good idea to avoid and ignore trump voters or 'trump likers' in this day and age, discussion has to happen with them more than ever since they are the people putting this guy into power. Most trump voters are not beyond rational argument if you empathise with their position. If you're able to read a whole blog post by Rikd or waste your life on liquidpoker forums then you should be able to listen to a trump fan.

ignoring them is the reason they got Trump in the first place plus you'd miss out on a lot of laughing so its a loss-loss

but no in all seriousness, Santa's post is quite good overall... arguing about Trump at this point for me is the same as arguing with people that believe in Jesus, just ignore the topic and get the most out of them on other topics cause the latter would be a time waste for both parties

but Santafairy PLEASE... PLEASE structure your posts better when they are that fucking long, they give me a headache - using capitalized beginning of sentences and some spacing isn't that hard

On December 27 2017 17:24 Loco wrote: Our minds make rapid judgments about people based on limited information all the time. It's unavoidable. If you pride yourself on listening to everyone with equal interest at all times, then you really don't have much self-respect..

or you know... you could just be a grown adult that tries to push his impulsive thoughts to the background and listen to the guy in order to allow him to show some arguments. Yet again you do a Plato-type argument which at first glance seems okayish but in reality the first part is in no way connected to the last one -j ust used as a negative which people would instantly want to distance themselves from....

You would be right if they were talking about politics, I'd instantly disregard Santa's post because being a fan of Trump at this point is beyond my comprehension and I don't feel like attempting to put any effort in changing his mind as the USA isn't my country and I won't really get affected by it if a 2nd term occurs.... unless a Black Swan happens which is very likely in the financial world

However he s NOT talking about politics... and just because you wouldn't care about someone's opinion on one topic, doesn't mean they won't provide an insightful opinion on another.... essentially you're hurting yourself in the long run.

Anyway his point is worth looking at.



P.S Santafairy it sounds to me like you're fond of Trump because of his accomplishments, I doubt that any sane person is taking that away from him, but just because someone is successful doesn't mean they're someone to look up to. Politics is probably the best sphere to show that

On December 27 2017 13:11 Santafairy wrote: Show nested quote + On December 26 2017 03:45 RiKD wrote: Couldn't read anymore after "as much as I like Trump" if I can read your deranged blogs about porn girlfriends you can suck it up, bragging about your own illiteracy doesn't show up anywhere in confucius

I am bored so I will respond. Deranged could be a fair word to use to describe my blog. A bit strong of a word. I don't remember ever bragging about illiteracy.

it was a minor example of an ancillary point, has nothing to do with politics but turned out to be a good trigger test I guess

I was just being honest with what I felt about your post. There was no hate. I had to look up "triggered."

one of the things you have to realize is there are people who are better than you, who outclass you in some dimensions, know more than you do, have a better understanding of certain things than you do, in some cases it's not a significant difference. for example, you could have been an insurance salesman, or still could be, or a psychology professor, or an electrician, or dentist, these things maybe were possible futures that overlapped with you, or it's all within your grasp to understand at least whether you become that or not (nobody can be everything so don't sweat it), not a big deal in other cases the person is better than you but in a way that's not useful to your growth, for example the world record holder for extinguishing candles with farts, it's like good for you then I guess but useless in still other cases the person is better than you in ways that specifically result in you having a society with roads and electricity and internet that you can surf and wank and blog and troll from, the world runs on testosterone and the people who got everything you like built are almost always assholes, including the trumps of the world who do actual literal building, anyway who do you like? jerry seinfeld? garry kasparov? they think they're better than you, and it's not because they're assholes at heart, it's because they really are better than you and their interface with the world has to filter what's valuable to them accordingly

I used to troll but I don't troll anymore. #trollface.

I really haven't even considered it until you bring it up. Trolling is dishonest and stupid.

I am now considering trolling you.

but nah.

How do you know Jerry Seinfeld and Garry Kasparov think they are better than me? They have certainly climbed their respective competency hierarchies quite well. Our their souls better than mine? Their bodies? I didn't help write one of the most successful sitcoms of all time or become a world chess champion but what am I going to do about that? Fester and ooze resentments? I am doing my own thing. Let me vibe with it. Let me continue to wander.

an idiot responds to this kind of thing by trying to have an asshole competition, but that's not what the competent person is doing fundamentally, it's just a side-effect, the real answer is to yourself be better anyway in the case of trump it was a simple point, this is a 70 year old fatass who sleeps 5 hours a night and went from nothing to taking over a whole political party and becoming leader of the free world in less than two years, it wasn't a political reference but a biographical one, because I mean this in the most non-insulting way possible, you could never do that even if you wanted (nobody ever did that) no matter how much smarter you think you are than bush or trump or whoever's in fashion to hate, and that's worth understanding, this is someone who's busy every day and constantly gets dealt new problems and has to somehow have a way to reliably figure things out and make decisions, it's worth understanding that people who achieve things do not turn off, that these people have something valuable that you might not have

When I think of Trump and Bush I definitely don't think about intelligence although I certainly don't think they are dummies. The first thing I think about Trump and Bush is that they are both trust fund kids. Trump has a lot of skills. He has a sharpness to him. These skills and abilities are in someways natural to him and I am sure he cultivated those and others with years and years of experience in high stakes real estate. He was great in The Apprentice. I am sure he sells a bunch of his gaudy crap to gaudy bourgeois wannabe Trumps. I remember one time I saw a guy loved Trump but I was so desperate for a job I went to the interview. It turned out to be some multi-level marketing bullshit and he was trying to get me to read Trump books and that other hack. I can't remember his name but they were linked. When I think of the phrase "I want what they have" Trump doesn't register. My goal is not to be the President of the United States of America. I would love to get gifted a multimillion dollar real estate business and a Wharton business school education though.

no one field is going to give you the foundation you need, including philosophy which even if you sort the best is a bunch of dead guys in their armchairs with usually no other expertise and when they do have actual expertise it far eclipses whatever philosophy they're making up, like descartes for example, they don't have anywhere near all the answers and you need to look at the living world, because you're alive, can't stay in your own head maybe a related realization is that there's some information that's not on the internet

I never said one field is going to give a foundation. No one has all the answers but Nietzsche and his progeny have quite a lot of insight into the world.

A lot of stuff ends up on the internet. I mean if I am having a conversation with a friend who owns a restaurant about restaurants I am likely not going to find that on the internet but who knows. There are a lot of great sources on the internet.

On December 27 2017 20:07 Stroggoz wrote: I don't think it's a good idea to avoid and ignore trump voters or 'trump likers' in this day and age, discussion has to happen with them more than ever since they are the people putting this guy into power. Most trump voters are not beyond rational argument if you empathise with their position. If you're able to read a whole blog post by Rikd or waste your life on liquidpoker forums then you should be able to listen to a trump fan.

Being willing to in some circumstances =/= being benefited from it in most circumstances.

In any case, I don't really believe in the power of arguments. For me it's very clear that arguing with people is more of an indulgence. How many productive arguments have you had with Trump supporters, out of curiosity?

I'm not completely cynical though, I just think people's minds are changed through education, and it's not everyone's role to educate. In fact it's a pretty large problem that many people feel that they are qualified to educate others when they are not. In terms of bettering people/the world, there needs to be an education reform, anything less is not going to change a damn thing.

On December 28 2017 03:29 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2017 20:07 Stroggoz wrote: I don't think it's a good idea to avoid and ignore trump voters or 'trump likers' in this day and age, discussion has to happen with them more than ever since they are the people putting this guy into power. Most trump voters are not beyond rational argument if you empathise with their position. If you're able to read a whole blog post by Rikd or waste your life on liquidpoker forums then you should be able to listen to a trump fan. Being willing to in some circumstances =/= being benefited from it in most circumstances. In any case, I don't really believe in the power of arguments. For me it's very clear that arguing with people is more of an indulgence. How many productive arguments have you had with Trump supporters, out of curiosity? I'm not completely cynical though, I just think people's minds are changed through education, and it's not everyone's role to educate. In fact it's a pretty large problem that many people feel that they are qualified to educate others when they are not. There needs to be an education reform, anything less is not going to change a damn thing.

If rational argument really didn't work then the media wouldn't be so terrified to put the articulate left intellectuals on fox news, new york times, cnn, ect. They wouldn't fire journalists like chris hedges for giving rational arguments opposing the iraq war for example. There is a reason tyrants like to censor people they don't like. so yes of course rational argument works, you just have to be patient. There are plenty of pretty obvious examples from history where rational argument works, but it is always slow for politics. Sometimes you have to wait lifetimes. I have talked to trump supporters but not too many, productivity is slow but that's the same for people with any other political beliefs as well.

and yeah people assert things that they dont know, everyone does that, that's just what human beings are, you just have to teach people critical thinking more i guess.

On December 27 2017 21:07 Spitfiree wrote: just because you wouldn't care about someone's opinion on one topic, doesn't mean they won't provide an insightful opinion on another.... essentially you're hurting yourself in the long run.

Your naiveté is adorable, Spitfiree. If I'm here, I'm already hurting myself (in terms of opportunity cost). But we all draw the line somewhere as to what qualifies as an acceptable waste of time. It's not for you to decide what is insightful and beneficial for me -- you just don't know that.

To have great insights, it follows that you have to have a great mind. A great mind doesn't say terribly stupid things on one topic and incredibly insightful things on other topics. The definition of a great mind is one which has cultivated pertinent knowledge. Pertinent knowledge is the ability to contextualize one's knowledge. To think globally, multidimensionally. It's actually enough to know if someone has a great mind (capable of great insights) based on a single important topic of discussion, because one topic is enough to illuminate their approach to knowledge and whether they have acquired pertinent knowledge or not.

This is not the same as being right or wrong about something specific, e.g. due to a lack of information. So for example saying "Isaac Newton was a genius but he practiced alchemy" completely misses the point of what pertinent knowledge is and it ignores historical context.

On December 28 2017 04:08 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On December 28 2017 03:29 Loco wrote:   On December 27 2017 20:07 Stroggoz wrote: I don't think it's a good idea to avoid and ignore trump voters or 'trump likers' in this day and age, discussion has to happen with them more than ever since they are the people putting this guy into power. Most trump voters are not beyond rational argument if you empathise with their position. If you're able to read a whole blog post by Rikd or waste your life on liquidpoker forums then you should be able to listen to a trump fan. Being willing to in some circumstances =/= being benefited from it in most circumstances. In any case, I don't really believe in the power of arguments. For me it's very clear that arguing with people is more of an indulgence. How many productive arguments have you had with Trump supporters, out of curiosity? I'm not completely cynical though, I just think people's minds are changed through education, and it's not everyone's role to educate. In fact it's a pretty large problem that many people feel that they are qualified to educate others when they are not. There needs to be an education reform, anything less is not going to change a damn thing. If rational argument really didn't work then the media wouldn't be so terrified to put the articulate left intellectuals on fox news, new york times, cnn, ect. They wouldn't fire journalists like chris hedges for giving rational arguments opposing the iraq war for example. There is a reason tyrants like to censor people they don't like. so yes of course rational argument works, you just have to be patient. There are plenty of pretty obvious examples from history where rational argument works, but it is always slow for politics. Sometimes you have to wait lifetimes. I have talked to trump supporters but not too many, productivity is slow but that's the same for people with any other political beliefs as well. and yeah people assert things that they dont know, everyone does that, that's just what human beings are, you just have to teach people critical thinking more i guess.

It's not about whether rational argument works or not in some absolute sense, it's about whether or not you and I making rational arguments has a meaningful impact in the spheres of influence that we have. It's also the hubris of thinking you are in possession of rationality/truth, while others are not. We're all constantly navigating between madness and rationality, and madness easily masquerades as rationality (rationalization) and we need to be very vigilant and be kept in check through study and constant communication with others. When this communication takes the form of arguments in a conflict however, there can be no progress, because one person effectively negates the other. The only way to resolve this is to have dialogues where both people have mutual respect for each other. It's really not the strength of arguments that have a lot of potential to change others, it's the strength of a character that is understanding and tolerant, which means being able to exist in a domain of uncertainty and ambiguity.

I don't think they're any more terrified than they are just functioning based on very primitive, tribalistic programming. It's basic biological conservation of adaption. In fact, to be terrified of rationality, they'd have to have knowledge that they are irrational and wrong, which I don't think they have.

Tyrants censor because they are megalomaniacs who want to bend the world to their will, not because they are afraid of the power of rationality. Rationality is not the ultimate weapon against tyranny, ultra-rationality in fact lends itself to tyranny automatically. Rationality without emotion/empathy is necessarily a monstrous thing.

I agree that you have to be patient for change to occur, but then again, it's also the case that none of these changes are permanent, and there is always a chance of regression following any type of perceived progress.

On December 27 2017 17:34 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On December 27 2017 16:37 VanDerMeyde wrote: I get the point thou. F.example I used to buy a lot of vegan products like falafel, but vegans on LP convinced me to stop buyin those. And my body functions better without these products (especially soya). So I get it. Follow the guys you like and believe in + use people you dislike as a guidebook for the opposite of what they say. Very effective. And both can now be viewed as a resource. That's incredibly childish and irrational. So If I say I am strongly against sun gazing and breatharianism, that might convince you to start doing it just to be a contrarian? What an utter moron you are. Just wow. "Follow people you like" yeah because people you like can't possibly be wrong about anything. Your preferences are always right. Including when you're part of a cult.

Interesting that you should mention that. Joe Rogan and Sam Harris talks about the cult of veganism in the beginning of this podcast. Now I understand more where you are comming from.

Yeah, I'm sure Sam Harris would support your very rational decision to no longer buy falafels because vegans are so mean and cultish.

not really mean, just too crazy for my taste. And you all seem to be on life tilt too. And I dont need that in my life, so I decided fuck all these products and lets go back to buy real food. Congrats

merry christmas / happy new year !

I didn't "talk you out" of buying plant-based foods. You just had a knee-jerk reaction and you have decided to arbitrarily no longer buy certain foods that I think might be better than the usual foods you consume. Except you're also being inconsistent about that because you still eat plenty of things that I eat if you still eat vegetables. It's just so laughably pathetic that you think you're somehow "winning" by doing this... If you at least want to be consistent then go watch this guy's videos and do what he says. He is an anti-vegan like you, but he walks the talk and he eats the exact opposite of what vegans eat.

By the way, at around 24:30 Sam Harris talks about making a taxonomy of animals that are ok to eat and he talks about bivalveganism, which is what I actually do (as I've stated multiple times). Joe Rogan replies "Oh, I could get into that". So, Joe Rogan approves of my diet. Thanks for letting us know!