Truth Discussion Time - Page 49

Hunter and gathered diet means seasonal, a lot of meat, a lot of fiber. NOT 400 carbs per day !!

On October 10 2017 02:23 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2017 02:10 RiKD wrote:   On October 10 2017 01:56 Liquid`Drone wrote: I've never reviewed any ranges in HEM. My nutritional opinion is really simplistic, I don't understand why people are complicating stuff so much, because it all seems fairly straight forward and obvious.. Basically, plant based is the healthiest. But adding some smallish quantities of lean meat or fatty fish doesn't really hurt, fatty fish can even be downright healthy (although it's possible to get the same nutrients through just plants). White bread is bad. Whole grain or pumpernickel or whatever is good. Portions are super important. Cheese is obviously bad, but so tasty that I don't care. Exercise is really important - the sedentary lifestyle of the western man seems to be as big of a health issue as the diet is, although the diet is probably easier to fix in an increasingly automated society. (Back when I was a full time hard manual worker, I could eat huge quantities of whatever I wanted. Did not gain weight. ) Butter isn't healthy, but it's not necessarily a big deal to use not too big quantities of it. Obviously olive oil is better though. Every vegan I know is slim and healthy - but I don't know if they are significantly healthier than people who cut the meat consumption to 10% of average western meat consumption, those 90% seems highly beneficial though. Also, I've honestly never heard of any tribes where the life expectancy or average life span is even close to the 85-90 you find in the healthiest regions of the world, but I'm incredibly curious, so please tell me about them. But even so, I'm quite certain they don't eat a lot of butter, and I'd be surprised to see them eat a lot of eggs, and I'm even more certain they live incredibly active lives, and while not all aspects of diet can be regulated through exercise, I'm also confident a lot of aspects can be. (Although, as my post above mentions, I'd be curious if anyone actually knows what aspects can, or rather, can't, be influenced. Like obviously obesity is less of a problem for someone who runs 10km every day, but I guess you might be equally prone to red-meat-triggered cancer?) Why is white bread bad? I have no idea but it seems like the overwhelming consensus among people who do know.

I just bring it up because I agree with pretty much everything else you said. I am not convinced white bread is bad. It is certainly empty calories but I don't see how it is bad. I am talking about bread: flour, salt, yeast, water. Once you start adding butter and sugar and other ingredients I can see where it starts to turn to bad. Something like Wonder bread is probably pretty bad.

RikD why do you think you get white bread @ restaurants before ur meal? because they want to be nice or because it is very profitable for them ? You are more likely to eat more / order more and the restaurants know that

https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/why-do-restaurants-give-you-bread

It is one of the reasons but they could give you any food. Free candy or soft drinks would be better. The kick in insulin will make me hungrier but it does not mean I am going to eat more. I may order more but it doesn't mean I will eat more. I mean likely I will eat more because it is standard to finish ones' plate and restaurants serve large portions. There was a meal that I ate a lot. I would eat a bunch of grapes, eat a bunch of bread with a vegetable stew and then follow that up with strawberries or blueberries. It was pretty much all carbs and some proteins from the black beans and kale. That is how I was eating at that time and I lost weight, had healthy markers, perfect stools, and felt great. Carbohydrates are not the problem.

I agree Eivind that extra virgin olive oil is very benefitial. Its part of my eating range.

On October 10 2017 03:02 RiKD wrote: https://www.thedailymeal.com/eat/why-do-restaurants-give-you-bread It is one of the reasons but they could give you any food. Free candy or soft drinks would be better. The kick in insulin will make me hungrier but it does not mean I am going to eat more. I may order more but it doesn't mean I will eat more. I mean likely I will eat more because it is standard to finish ones' plate and restaurants serve large portions. There was a meal that I ate a lot. I would eat a bunch of grapes, eat a bunch of bread with a vegetable stew and then follow that up with strawberries or blueberries. It was pretty much all carbs and some proteins from the black beans and kale. That is how I was eating at that time and I lost weight, had healthy markers, perfect stools, and felt great. Carbohydrates are not the problem.

You are right, they could give any food that increases bloodsugar and insulin very rapidly. Now, theres also ur answer for why white bread is very bad in most cases. And my strategy to win my bet was to get exactly the opposite effect. Carbs is the problem if you dont burn them off with exercise. I doubt you were eating 400g pr day when losing weight. Well, thats the average consumption in the west. No wonder we get sick. We handle the overload if carbs very differently thou and we get sick in different ways. You Said earlier that low carbers will face cancer.. it just happens that cancer cells love sugar. I guess anyone can get cancer but it's widely know that you reduce the risk a ton by cutting smoking and no sugar

On October 10 2017 01:26 Liquid`Drone wrote: seems to be a divide between virgin coconut oil and coconut oil, even in the picture loco linked. That's consistent with what I've heard myself, when people talk about coconut oil as healthy, they're talking about virgin. And people used to live significantly shorter lives than they do nowadays, that 'people survived' eating something isn't evidence of it being healthy, it merely proves that it's not highly toxic. 400 grams of 'carbs' being the problem also sounds meaningless to me. That can be white bread, sugar, rice, or sweet potato. Western diets don't suffer from people eating too much of the latter two.

I think you misread it. It's the extra virgin olive oil that's in the "beneficial" category. Not the coconut oil. There is no evidence of benefit for any kind of coconut oil as of yet. In fact, there is a good amount of very recent evidence to the contrary. And like RiKD pointed out, it's still mostly empty calories at the end of the day. Even if we don't ever have a consensus clearly saying it's bad (virgin or not), from an opportunity cost perspective, it's certainly bad. Your "calorie bank" for the day is quite limited and you can have a lot more nutrition for that amount of calories.

On October 10 2017 03:29 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On October 10 2017 01:26 Liquid`Drone wrote: seems to be a divide between virgin coconut oil and coconut oil, even in the picture loco linked. That's consistent with what I've heard myself, when people talk about coconut oil as healthy, they're talking about virgin. And people used to live significantly shorter lives than they do nowadays, that 'people survived' eating something isn't evidence of it being healthy, it merely proves that it's not highly toxic. 400 grams of 'carbs' being the problem also sounds meaningless to me. That can be white bread, sugar, rice, or sweet potato. Western diets don't suffer from people eating too much of the latter two. I think you misread it. It's the extra virgin olive oil that's in the "beneficial" category. Not the coconut oil. There is no evidence of benefit for any kind of coconut oil as of yet. In fact, there is a good amount of very recent evidence to the contrary.

Except for 1400+ studies documenting all the healthy benefits from coconut oil

On October 10 2017 01:11 VanDerMeyde wrote: "Evidence of harm: egg and coconuts". HAHAHA. People still believe that bullshit? really ? 1400 studies show all the great health benefits from coconut oil. But it's okey, enjoy the eggwhites LP. I'll eat the eggyolks for ya. These fats are only bad og your diet is terrible otherwise and loaded with sugar/carbs

I asked you for evidence and this is all you have? "1400 studies" and you can't be bothered to post one decent meta-analysis for me to review? Huh?

1400 studies is evidence good enough. Where is your evidence that coconut oil of good quality is harmfull ? (the ones working with bad quality coconut oil / highly processed you dont have to borger to post about)

On October 10 2017 00:42 RiKD wrote: Show nested quote + On October 09 2017 23:11 Loco wrote: I mean, since you apparently don't have the motivation to change your habits, just take the drugs. Do some research on them if you're unsure. If those drugs cause some bad effects then maybe your motivation will come back. Your doctor knows next to nothing about nutrition. He wasn't taught nutrition. What he's telling you is what he thinks will be easiest for you to do. It's a workable goal that will improve your numbers. Lots of people manage to motivate themselves to stop eating white bread and other refined grains, and it certainly helps, so it's just easy advice to give. You know there's more to the story than that though.[/qoute] If I were to stop eating baked potatoes and sweet potatoes it would reduce my cholesterol? I don't really understand triglycerides so I will just leave it at I don't understand triglycerides. I just couldn't believe he told me carbs were the problem and made no mention of the fact I am likely 20+ lbs overweight. Telling me I am in great shape when the other day it was difficult for me to run maybe 400m to catch a boat. [quote] I'm going to say this for the last time RiKD: you are bullshitting yourself with the whole "Do I really want to live to 90?!" We've talked about this at length in the thread already: it's about healthspan, not lifespan. What you really don't want is to be dependant on a cocktail of medications that have a bunch of unpleasant side effects and that never treat the underlying cause of your problems. What you should be telling yourself is "do I want to have erectile dysfunction because I like to pig out on unhealthy food every day?" or "Do I want to risk having a stroke that will leave me partly paralyzed?" "Do I want to spend years in physical rehabilitation?" Make a list of all the things that can happen to you if you don't change your habits. A realistic list. Then maybe you'll snap out of this delusion that it's just all about those last ten years of life being cut short. Did I write it that way? "Do I really want to live to 90?" I usually add some comment about quality. Healthspan is assumed. I have spoken on here about cancers and heart disease at earlier ages. No, I do not want strokes in my 50s. My parents don't have any issues and my dad was obese his whole life so I don't really see the problems first hand. My sister in laws dad had a really bad stroke recently and that seemed troublesome for the family to go through. It was pretty shitty for maybe even a few weeks before he eventually died. I think he was late 50s. Real American meat and potatoes kind of guy. I don't even know if he ate vegetables. I didn't even see it in any of my grandparents. My grandfather was even an alcoholic his whole life and he really didn't encounter too much trouble besides just old age. My grandmother was pretty fit and active into her 80s. My other grandmother is still going strong at 87 with a pretty bad diet her whole life. My grandfather maybe died a little soon but had quality of life up until that point. I guess I don't really see or am even aware of what can happen if I don't change my habits.

My bad, I misread your statement. It looked a lot like "Do I want to be around when I'm 90 to do stuff?". I still think part of my post applies. Chronic illness is what you want to avoid, and it can hit you at any time with the way you eat. IBD for instance hits most people in their 20s and 30s. Happened to me, happened to Fayth, and the link with diet is undeniable. No one in my family has been affected by it either, so it's not a great predictor of what can happen to you.

On October 10 2017 00:46 RiKD wrote: Also, I am not sure if you would know this but I think I might have read it in a Dr. Fuhrman book. Whoever it was they said they had never seen a heart attack or stroke in someone with an ldl level of less than 100 or something like that. Maybe it was total cholesterol at less than 150. That is really the only reason to care about cholesterol?

Yeah, total cholesterol below 150. The optimal LDL level is 50 to 70. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15172426

I can list up all the health benefits for you when I get home Loco. Can't copy paste on my phone

On October 10 2017 03:41 VanDerMeyde wrote: 1400 studies is evidence good enough. Where is your evidence that coconut oil of good quality is harmfull ? (the ones working with bad quality coconut oil / highly processed you dont have to borger to post about)

?? Are you dense or something? I didn't ask for your opinion of what constitutes good evidence. I asked you for a link to a meta-analysis. If there are 1400 studies showing benefits, then some of those are going to be meta-analyses/systematic reviews. Link one please. I don't know why you asked me for evidence, I have already linked you to recent evidence. I even bothered to get you through the paywall to be able read it.

On October 10 2017 03:44 VanDerMeyde wrote: I can list up all the health benefits for you when I get home Loco. Can't copy paste on my phone

I don't want a copy paste of what you think the benefits are, taken from a random website. Give me a link to a meta-analysis.

1400 studies is not an opinion. Its a fact, deal with it. And yes I will link you a lot of good stuff when I im in front of a computer

I dont know about metastudier, i can search that up. I k på there are 1400+ studies on coconut oil and a lot of evidence for great health effects. I doubt coconuts are the reason for western diseases Loco

Until you've shown us where you get this figure and this result, it's merely your opinion that there are 1400 studies showing that coconut oil is healthy.

On October 10 2017 03:56 Loco wrote: Until you've shown us where you get this figure and this result, it's merely your opinion that there are 1400 studies showing that coconut oil is healthy.

Okey so i would make that up ? I already told you, im on my phone and will link when im at computer. Why do aggressive anyway, sounds like you could change your diet lol. Its also very easyt to search up.

Did you come out of the womb with the knowledge that coconut oil is healthy? No. So you "learned" it somewhere. I'd just like to find out where. Is that not a reasonable thing to ask? My guess is that you didn't learn it from credible scientists (or any scientist at all). You probably got it off of blogs and talking heads who don't look at the science in depth, they look at isolated studies that are usually funded by the coconut oil industry. It's not about you making it up, it's about you not knowing how to source accurate information.

I wouldn't have to be "aggressive" if you weren't just asserting things and repeating them without providing a single meta-analysis to back it up. Don't waste someone's time if you want them to be 100% polite with you.

Why guess at all. Why not just wait until im at a computer. Jesus you act retarded

On October 10 2017 04:28 VanDerMeyde wrote: Why guess at all. Why not just wait until im at a computer. Jesus you act retarded

Huh. I can wait. I only repeat myself because you keep reposting your claim without evidence. You could have just waited to be at a computer instead of reposting. I also don't buy it: you can find a link with your phone. It's 2017. I doubt you're on a piece of shit phone that can't copy paste. Especially since you're a baller who wins at 20bb/100.

On October 10 2017 02:41 VanDerMeyde wrote: Hunter and gathered diet means seasonal, a lot of meat, a lot of fiber. NOT 400 carbs per day !!

I'd also like to know more about this. How do you know that they all ate a lot of meat and how much fiber do you think they were getting? How much fiber are you getting per day?