A pirate is born

>digital renting
>renting digital data
>literally renting information

I mean, I would pay maybe a dollar or two for a movie online to actually fucking download Having to, in essence, pay per view? Fuck no.

>not having been a pirate since you knew about it

Arrr matey!! I've been a pirate for a long time lol!

I found this site today in Internet is beautiful, and you could just put in the shows you've watched, and it would add up how much time you've spent watching series.

I sat for a bit, tried to remember all the ones I've watched through at least, and I'm sure im missing looooads, but this is what I could remember, it's almost 140 days in series. Movies is not included, so I'm betting, if you add all the movies ive seen (pirated), and all the shows, it's probably closer to 300 days or so. And all of it is pirated lol:


http://sivakodali.com/tv/

Let your hate flow through you

i torrent everything, but telling yourself it isn't wrong is absolutely delusional.

Stopped downloading stuff illegally, 3-4 years ago.

I can understand your frustration, but you're not being very objective in the matter.

I like ice films.

Objective? Who gives a shit if it is technically I illegal. Take what you can the companies selling shit sure as he'll do

Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service.

Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service.

I pay for netflix but if i want to watch a movie thats already available on the internets but not on netflix ill gladly dl and watch it.

On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service.

Games are a bit different though because valid cd keys are required for online play and often steam itself provides the servers and online game platforms.

So if movies were like games on steam it would almost be like they only exist on steam, impossible to download you have to stream. Then of course you would have to pay. It's not the same because you can still get offline games on steam and steam in General is great but the online play aspect is kind of like that.

For example if you want to play counter-strike these days you have to use steam

I feel like a week + 12 hours is more reasonable for renting. I do not understand why they can not do this. The whole point of movies/tv is loss of consciousness/transcendence. Having to worry about deadlines and/or getting scammed on a re-up to vacay from the pains, chaos, and absurdity the day can bring is a crime against humanity.

Top fucking kek pirating has never hurt the game industry. Never listen to stream, that's a big fucking kek. They have done analysts of chinese piraters and a few other of the surrounding countries and found that torrenting massively helped spread information around and was/is literally the fucking backbone for a couple gaming development companies.

I doubt this hurt the music or film industry, either, as in the music industry, the artists don't get royalties from records sales, though record sales can determine if the label keeps the band around, though they really need to adapt torrenting instead of literally only physical copies from certain stores to be the determination. I'm not sure how this would affect the film industry, but I'm sure this actually helps them out.

Any time you have negative press on something, well, usually, you get a backlash effect on it. When you ban smoking, cigarette sales increase. When you ban drinking, there's more alcohol sales. When you ban drugs, cars, food, anything that really isn't harmful to us, we want more of it. I wouldn't be surprised if this wasn't a fake campaign to increase torrenting if the industries have found a way to profit from the torrenting.

u guys are straight up in denial if you think that pirating has NOT hurt the gaming, music, movie industry.

maybe at this point when your the 100000000000th torrenter, sure it most likely has no effect. but if they somehow eliminated all torrenting, there is no doubt that the above industries would be better off.

Tell me how many game, film, and music companies have failed due to piracy. Piracy only increases traffic, and traffic is how a lot of advertising companies make their money. Piracy increases server loads, which may be bad for an extremely small company starting out with its first game, but having steady server traffic is better than having dwindling traffic. This also goes to word-of-mouth. Which game do you think people would play more, based on how many people already play the game? LoL or SC2? I'd say LoL just looking at the stream traffic on TL. (yes i know LoL is free but you get the point) Developers who try to introduce anti-piracy codes in their game can ruin themselves like TitanQuest did, because when you have something not working and a lot of people start asking "Why the fuck is there this glitch this game" which gets logged onto the Google queries, you get people asking why the fuck is this game even being sold if it's got these glitches, and I ain't even played it yet?

The main problem caused by piracy is server overloads. Then again, server traffic can literally make the game.

On April 13 2014 10:38 mnj wrote: u guys are straight up in denial if you think that pirating has NOT hurt the gaming, music, movie industry. maybe at this point when your the 100000000000th torrenter, sure it most likely has no effect. but if they somehow eliminated all torrenting, there is no doubt that the above industries would be better off.

gaming industry has not been hurt by piracy. Piracy is what made people become gamers (and eventually, paying gamers). I think out of the 1000 games I played between the age of 5 and 20 I had purchased like 10 of them, whereas in the past 5 years with steam being so awesome I've literally bought more games than I've played.. I agree entirely with baal - I don't pirate games and haven't for years, I likewise haven't pirated a single song since I got spotify, but I'll keep it up for movies and series for a bit longer. thing is, movies/series needs to be a period-based payment (like spotify) whereas games can be a per-service payment, and then one provider needs to have access to basically everything before it can compete with piracy in terms of what it offers.

I haven't payed for porn either!!

I feel like such a gangster when I'm on forums, wuhu!!

On April 13 2014 10:38 mnj wrote: u guys are straight up in denial if you think that pirating has NOT hurt the gaming, music, movie industry. maybe at this point when your the 100000000000th torrenter, sure it most likely has no effect. but if they somehow eliminated all torrenting, there is no doubt that the above industries would be better off.

It's hard to feel bad for those actors who are making 25 mill a movie, and those producers who are making 300 mill profit for movies that have a decent premiere.

Yes. I'm a pirate, and proud of it. When I was a kid, I used to record songs that I liked off the radio.

- Sticking it to the man since 1997

On April 13 2014 13:37 devon06atX wrote: [QUOTE]On April 13 2014 10:38 mnj wrote: Yes. I'm a pirate, and proud of it. When I was a kid, I used to record songs that I liked off the radio.

rofl this.
It was hard tho
always a motherfucker to talk on your song
bitch !

On April 13 2014 12:30 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2014 10:38 mnj wrote: u guys are straight up in denial if you think that pirating has NOT hurt the gaming, music, movie industry. maybe at this point when your the 100000000000th torrenter, sure it most likely has no effect. but if they somehow eliminated all torrenting, there is no doubt that the above industries would be better off. gaming industry has not been hurt by piracy. Piracy is what made people become gamers (and eventually, paying gamers). I think out of the 1000 games I played between the age of 5 and 20 I had purchased like 10 of them, whereas in the past 5 years with steam being so awesome I've literally bought more games than I've played.. I agree entirely with baal - I don't pirate games and haven't for years, I likewise haven't pirated a single song since I got spotify, but I'll keep it up for movies and series for a bit longer. thing is, movies/series needs to be a period-based payment (like spotify) whereas games can be a per-service payment, and then one provider needs to have access to basically everything before it can compete with piracy in terms of what it offers.

pirate games?
Dude back in the day all you had was sharewares on PC magazine floppies and later CDs

Starcraft came out... Then you didn't need any other games, but for some reason, you kept buying a new cd every couple of month lol

"When I was young, blablabla...."

On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service.

Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services.
Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp).

Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea.

I bought a bunch of shit off itunes. Tried to transfer the songs to another device once I'm retiring this laptop, no go. Fuck that. FU itunes.

It would have been easier and faster to pirate anyway. I'm a fucking pirate from now on.

Anyone that whines that it hurts the industry is a fucking frog. While you're at it, stop driving a car that consumes oil you fucktards.

Pirated Total War ROME;

Wanted Mods so I bought Total War ROME for liek $20.

Medieval II Came out, Straight bought that, + Kingdoms for like $75.

Lost my disc, bought it again no steam for like $30.

Empire:Total War came out. Insta-bought that. $75.

Got fucking disappointed. Napolean came out bought that. $75.

Told myself never to trust Total war again. Dled Shogun II was okay.

BOUGHT ROME TOTAL WAR II $75. Wanted to kill myself. Fucking garbage piece of shit I should've pirated.

In this personal experience, Creative Assembly made $300+ from a pirated game.

On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea.

They are dying dinosaurs clinging to their olds ways trying to stay alive through litigation and harassment of newer technologies, trying to send Kim Dotcom to jail for 50 years for being a pioneer in cloud storage. The good news is they will soon die, just like blockbuster died, network TV will die and hollywood distribution sistem through cinema will die too, and thats good.

They even dare to have different world releases for TV shows, oh you dont live in US/Europe? guess what, wait a week for the release episode... why? cuz fuck you thats why... wtf, so people pirate and then they whine their shows are being pirated, well no shit.

I release my movies in theaters only and you will have to wait 4 months for it if you dont feel like going to the movie theater... well fuck you ill pirate it then.

Want to rent an online movie? pay $16 to watch it fucking once... want to buy it? pay $45... yeah thats the same price as if we had to produce a DVD, burn it, pack it, send it to a distribution center, selling it a retail store and paying everybody remotely involved in that whole process.... except that with digital selling we dont have to do or pay for ANY of that shit... but you will still have to pay the same price, well guess what... fuck you ill pirate it.

The film industry should make a ton of effort to offer good alternatives to pirating, but instead they make you jump through hoops to pay for something that you can get much easier for free, not to mention sometimes shit just isn't available when you're outside of the US, so fuck em.

On April 14 2014 02:04 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote:   On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea. They are dying dinosaurs clinging to their olds ways trying to stay alive through litigation and harassment of newer technologies, trying to send Kim Dotcom to jail for 50 years for being a pioneer in cloud storage. The good news is they will soon die, just like blockbuster died, network TV will die and hollywood distribution sistem through cinema will die too, and thats good. They even dare to have different world releases for TV shows, oh you dont live in US/Europe? guess what, wait a week for the release episode... why? cuz fuck you thats why... wtf, so people pirate and then they whine their shows are being pirated, well no shit. I release my movies in theaters only and you will have to wait 4 months for it if you dont feel like going to the movie theater... well fuck you ill pirate it then. Want to rent an online movie? pay $16 to watch it fucking once... want to buy it? pay $45... yeah thats the same price as if we had to produce a DVD, burn it, pack it, send it to a distribution center, selling it a retail store and paying everybody remotely involved in that whole process.... except that with digital selling we dont have to do or pay for ANY of that shit... but you will still have to pay the same price, well guess what... fuck you ill pirate it.

We're all stealing for our own convenience when we download movies and series that's just the reality.

I agree with your arguments that surely we would spend some money if better service existed but I don't see how you turn that into a justification of stealing at your own convenience. Bottom line is that the main driving factor for downloading is that we don't want to wait for delays on releases, and don't want to spend the time, effort, and money on the actual product. It's entirely self-serving.

"Oh the product that is ideal for me doesn't exist? Well, let me just steal instead that will teach them."

>steal

Remind me how copying digital information is stealing? I mean, the original is STILL there, no?

On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote: Show nested quote + On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea.

Neither is Spotify, in Korea

On April 14 2014 07:11 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 02:04 Baalim wrote:   On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote:   On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea. They are dying dinosaurs clinging to their olds ways trying to stay alive through litigation and harassment of newer technologies, trying to send Kim Dotcom to jail for 50 years for being a pioneer in cloud storage. The good news is they will soon die, just like blockbuster died, network TV will die and hollywood distribution sistem through cinema will die too, and thats good. They even dare to have different world releases for TV shows, oh you dont live in US/Europe? guess what, wait a week for the release episode... why? cuz fuck you thats why... wtf, so people pirate and then they whine their shows are being pirated, well no shit. I release my movies in theaters only and you will have to wait 4 months for it if you dont feel like going to the movie theater... well fuck you ill pirate it then. Want to rent an online movie? pay $16 to watch it fucking once... want to buy it? pay $45... yeah thats the same price as if we had to produce a DVD, burn it, pack it, send it to a distribution center, selling it a retail store and paying everybody remotely involved in that whole process.... except that with digital selling we dont have to do or pay for ANY of that shit... but you will still have to pay the same price, well guess what... fuck you ill pirate it. We're all stealing for our own convenience when we download movies and series that's just the reality. I agree with your arguments that surely we would spend some money if better service existed but I don't see how you turn that into a justification of stealing at your own convenience. Bottom line is that the main driving factor for downloading is that we don't want to wait for delays on releases, and don't want to spend the time, effort, and money on the actual product. It's entirely self-serving. "Oh the product that is ideal for me doesn't exist? Well, let me just steal instead that will teach them."

QFT

On April 14 2014 09:18 Gnarly wrote: >steal Remind me how copying digital information is stealing? I mean, the original is STILL there, no?

Please dont start up with that shit. You arent paying for the information, you are paying for the labor it took to create it. But Baal put it best recognizing that Steam proved piracy was a matter of service, not money. During the Steam christmas sale I bought 5 games and havent even installed them yet, just because I know they are a button click away. If Steam didnt exist, would I have purchased them from Gamestop? No, because it wouldnt be worth my time to even bother, so whether I pirated them or not no transaction was lost, they were never getting my money anyway. The only dilemma for me is that these are movies that I actually would spend money to see if God peaked his bearded head through the clouds and made all piracy impossible. So now I am taking something that I could and would pay for, and not paying for it. So instead I'll don my Robin Hood hat and claim I'm doing it to enact change. I'm making a personal moral sacrifice so that one day future generations will be able to consume content without the pain of a 2 ft long arching veiny horse penis penetrating to their sternum.

It's just unbelievable how studio execs dont recognize that they are likely making less money with their current distro model. They honestly think hardcoded sales in the form of a disc, something that you physically touch, is the only way to certifiably sell something, as if it were a loaf of bread or something. They just cant wrap their minds around this whole idea of digital content and sales. It's like it's such a scary concept to them, "it's just 1's and 0's?! How are we supposed to make money off that? I cant feel that. I cant hold that. It doesnt exist!" If they just took new release movies, like stuff that's about to come out that Friday and put it out for $20 a pop with a 48 hour viewing period people would eat that shit up. I dont even go to the theater anymore. I would rather have beer and pizza at home on my nice couch and watch on a 60" screen than drive somewhere and sit in an uncomfortable seat at a weird angle with noisy people around. There's millions of people who skip on theaters all together. But I'd snap pay premium money to see Transcendence this Friday at home.

>paying for the labor

That's a loaded kek. That's like saying you're paying for the labor for a football game, which is entirely untrue.

I don't think it is very productive to argue the semantics of the word stealing. I'm fine with it not being called stealing I don't see why it matters how you name it.

There's already smartTV available for Estonians. It allows you to record any show on any channel you have and then watch it. Also you can rent movies for 48 hours. Calendar with your favourite shows and notifications. And you can re-watch whatever has been shown on tv in the last 2 weeks. Pretty neat.

Apple TV will bring change. Streaming is becoming increasingly popular. I don't believe everything will be gathered under one umbrella just yet. There will be a couple of big service providers and i think it benefits the end user most. I believe the wheels for a better service are in motion, just have to give it time.

On April 14 2014 13:06 Gnarly wrote: >paying for the labor That's a loaded kek. That's like saying you're paying for the labor for a football game, which is entirely untrue.

Ok so what are you paying for when you watch a football game? Can you refuse to pay me for building your house because you bought the materials yourself and thus havent stolen anything from me? When you pirate a movie you arent just stealing the data required to put that movie into a digital format. You are stealing the gasoline it cost for the trucks that hauled around all the camera equipment to make the movie. You are stealing the food that was used to feed the crew who produced the movie. What you are paying for is the time the actor took out of his day to entertain you, when he could have been doing something else instead. You are paying for all the people who spent the last 8 months slaving away in art rooms and computer terminals rendering the special fx so you could have something to watch.

I make no mistake about what I am doing when I pirate a film that I intended to originally pay money for. But they screwed me, so I'm screwing them back. My favorite show right now is Game of Thrones. I do not have HBO, so I download it online. If HBO figured out a way to stop this, I would not suddenly go pay for Comcast/HBO subscription to watch it, I would just abandon the show completely and go on about my life. So my downloading of their show does not cost them any money, because they were never getting any money from me in the first place. Their net profit from my actions will always be exactly 0. However I just downloaded Enders Game too, which was originally in my rent queue. They were going to get my money to pay for all those things I mentioned, but now they're not, because they fucked me.

The paying the stadium for the privilege to spectate the sport. Expensive tickets = high salaries for athletes. The reason tickets are expensive is because of seats filled. !!

I would've stolen your time with the promise that I would pay you. Developers, artists, and directors get paid before sales, after. I would've already paid you for the house, however, because I'm simply someone seeking a room, it would be like making an exact copy of the house you built, without you actually building it or someone funding the materials, and me placing it in another location. You already got paid.

>stealing gasoline

omk (oh my kek)

Your football players are paid before their performance. They get paid whether the arena is sold out or empty. But what do you think is going to happen to the next game if the last one was empty? They wont play. The gasoline argument is meant to demonstrate the resources that are used to produce your entertainment that you dont seem to realize exists. You're still stuck in this 3rd grader mentality of simply looking at the direct product, an mpeg file stored on your harddrive. But thats not what you paid for. You didnt pay for the 1's and 0's you replicated thus leaving the original intact. You paid for the resources required to align those 1's and 0's, and those resources arent replenishable, like the food and water required by the people to create the content. THATS what you are paying for. You are paying for their time, not their idea. Just like if I design your house on paper and you run out the door with the schematics, the idea is still in my head and I could write it down again, but you're still stealing. Or if I come to your house to hammer the nails into the wood and then you tell me to fuck off after I'm finished, that "i havent lost anything, I'm still here, you didnt take any nails from me you created your own" nonsense.

If I stole the blueprints to your house, I literally stole physical property. Your argument would have me take a picture of your blueprints, or copying them in a copying machine or something.

Or if I come to your house to hammer the nails into the wood and then you tell me to fuck off after I'm finished, that "i havent lost anything, I'm still here, you didnt take any nails from me you created your own" nonsense.

Ok, so you copy them in a copying machine using paper and toner you purchased, hooked up to a portable generator you brought with you so you dont use any of my electricity in the process. I spent the last 3 months designing your house. This isnt stealing in your view?

No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing.

I agree technically its stealing and self serving, but its stealing from an industry that has consistently given people the shaft over decades under the veil of a non existant free market and now people have an alternative to getting fucked, so if you want to steal from them? its fine for me, actually Id encourage you to do so... again, fuck them.

On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing.

What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something?

On April 14 2014 23:32 Baalim wrote: I agree technically its stealing and self serving, but its stealing from an industry that has consistently given people the shaft over decades under the veil of a non existant free market and now people have an alternative to getting fucked, so if you want to steal from them? its fine for me, actually Id encourage you to do so... again, fuck them.

Yes, they stole from me, so I'm just evening the table.

On April 14 2014 09:20 iop wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 00:51 TianYuan wrote:   On April 13 2014 06:04 Baalim wrote: Steam proved that piracy is a problem of service. Since Steam came out ive never pirated a game again, however I will continue to pirate the shit out of movies, tv shows etc until they provide a good product with a good service. Yep. Pay for all my games via steam or other such services. Had a spotify subscription since it was available pretty much.... Bought a ton of songs from them for downloading until they stopped providing downloads, which means I'm back to downloading music (rarely tho) or, more frequently, buying stuff from Bandcamp (love bandcamp). Not found anything for movies yet... netflix not available in Korea. Neither is Spotify, in Korea

My subscription from when I lived in sweden is still active, so I think I'm covered since premium has the travel thing.

Netflix just informs me I cant watch from Korea and no options

On April 14 2014 23:43 NewbSaibot wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing. What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something?

The persons time etc. However, because I paid, those finished products are mine. That's why I'm paying. Not to rent the design, but to own.

If I were to take the design without paying for it, and the guy was supposed to get paid by me, then that would be stealing.

If I were to digitally copy the design while leaving the original intact, and I was never supposed to pay the guy, then how is that stealing?

On April 15 2014 07:47 Gnarly wrote: Show nested quote + On April 14 2014 23:43 NewbSaibot wrote:   On April 14 2014 22:29 Gnarly wrote: No, designing my house for the last three months isn't stealing. What do you think you're paying for when someone pays for someone to design something? The persons time etc. However, because I paid, those finished products are mine. That's why I'm paying. Not to rent the design, but to own. If I were to take the design without paying for it, and the guy was supposed to get paid by me, then that would be stealing.

Ok so you feel that movies shouldnt be made available to rent, but only to own?

If I were to digitally copy the design while leaving the original intact, and I was never supposed to pay the guy, then how is that stealing?

How would you ever end up in this situation?

Your analogy is bad here. An architect gets paid to design a house, mostly be the person who's going to be living in that house. That architect is going to be doing what the person paying them asks them to do. Unless, of course, this architect works for a real estate firm or whatever and you see those neighborhoods where you can select premade plans to build your new house in.

A director, however, has to get funding from a studio or multiple parties, for which they will have some say in the movie, then they get a portion of what movie theaters make or unless they just pay a flat fee for buying the film. The studios has rights over the movies, but the director gets loyalties after his initial funding and after all the movie production stuff is over. Ya know, like series and whatnot. So, businesses decide to buy these movies in bulk to rent them out, or they buy the rights to do so digitally.

Have you heard of 3d printing? The analogy doesn't fit perfectly, cause you'd still have to supply the printer, I believe, but meh.

If I were the director, or the studios, whoever has the rights to the movies, then they can decide if they want people to be allowed to rent, if that's how it already is. You are thinking that this guy wanting the architect to design the house would rent his house out while living in it since there's no copy?

Some architect's pre-design homes with the intent to sell the designs to people who want to use them to build their houses. Just like a movie production studio can make a movie with the intent to sell it to you later if you are interested. Yet for some reason you think copying the film is different from copying the architect. Both created their content digitally, and spent many months doing so. Both could be copied in their entirty to a $5 thumb drive. In both scenarios we are placing value on the labor of the content creation, since you seem to think the content itself has no value because it is stored electronically and can be duplicated. You also seem to think that just because someone creates the content before you requested it, it is therefore meaningless and different than content created at your request.

A blue print needs a pencil and paper with some thinking. A movie needs an entire fucking camera crew, funding crew, clothing crew, music crew, transportation crew, food crew, all sorts of different people and things. One is someone doing something for himself, if not at request, and the other is doing something FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT. People can't go around making pre-movies without investors, and then decide to sell them to studios.

If I were to make some blueprints that I wanted to sell, if someone were to copy those and submit them to where I wanted to, sure, he could be stealing my IDEA, but is that idea MINE, or an idea that I had?

I dont even know what your point is about how a movie is produced "FOR THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT"? What does this even mean? What point are you trying to drive home here? How is that any different from anything else that is produced? Everything is ultimately funded by someone. Are you trying to say that you arent stealing from the people who made the film, you are stealing from the people who paid everyone to make the film? As if they are some different entity not deserving of profit? You do realize that if "THE PEOPLE WHO FUNDED IT" dont get paid, they'll STOP FUNDING IT, and then the people they were paying lose their jobs.

Not to mention your ridiculous oversimplification of home design process as "just a guy and a pencil". By that logic all a movie needs "is a guy and a camera with some thinking". You arent just paying for the guy and his pencil when he designs your home. You're paying for his $6000 AutoCAD software he used. You're paying for the $5000 computer he used. You're paying for the $50,000 and 4 years of education he received so he could design your home. You're paying for the 10+ years of experience he has so he can design you a quality home. You're paying for the total sum cumulative costs it took him so he could reach a point where he could sell his designs to you and you would want to pay for them, otherwise you would design your own fucking home. It's the same thing with a movie. Producers dont just have money trees. The entire film development process stems from other processes and RESOURCES that were required to reach that point. You have to account for ALL of that. Thats how prices are adjusted for any product in this world.

I dont even know what you're trying to say in your last sentence.

I forget what the disorder is called, but I have a handful of mental disorders. (well, one of them isn't a disorder of the mind but my mind is still affected by it. you would only think im trolling if i told you what it is.) I'm not the most coherent person to talk to, I know. Plus, sometimes, I just like to argue for no reason at all. Something I get from one of my grandpas.

What I'm trying to say is that ideas aren't physical property. They don't belong to anyone. Anyone can come up with a thought and make money off of it, regardless if someone already came up with the thought and is trying to make money off of it. That's why blueprint plans aren't a good analogy. They are simply ideas. A script, which directors write to get funding and whatnot, is akin to blueprints.

Also, directors get their money before movies go on rent. They still get royalties for them if they have ownership of the film, but digitally copying a film that someone's already been paid for doesn't seem like stealing to me.

A movie is not merely an idea though. Do you think you could direct Jurassic Park if someone gave you the money just because you had the script? There's a reason Spileberg can make a billion dollars with this "idea" and you cant, because he has the skill to implement this idea, and implementation is a form of labor. You are paying for the labor he put forth, not the idea, thats what I'm trying to get across to you. And everyone gets paid before the end result. I get paid my monthly salary whether I do my job or not. If I dont do my job, then they will stop paying me. But it's a trust relationship. Spielberg gets his payment up front because he has proven he can and will accomplish the task. If he repeatedly fails then guess what, he wont get paid anymore. And there are plenty of directors/writers/actors who actually DID have to wait until the results were in before they got paid. They didnt get shit until the profits rolled in. So if you stole their movie to the point it made no profit, then they literally got nothing for their efforts.

You do realize that if everyone pirated every movie without ever spending money on it once, that movies would cease to be made right? Studios arent just doing these for their health. It just so happens to be that for every pirate there are still 100 or 1000 paying customers who allow the film to profit anyway. When I pirate a movie I am hoping that the studios will in turn learn a lesson and publish their material in a different manner, one in which will not only benefit me through convenience, but probably actually make them more profit when it's all said and done. But that's a whole other argument. I just dont try to pretend like what I'm doing isnt stealing, I fully admit I just dont care lol. At least be honest about it. It's not like you need to lie to yourself so you can sleep easy at night because you pirated some movie. Which is what bugs me when people like you defend it to their grave.

>if you "stole", which I'll correct to digitally copying, their movie, they aren't getting paid for their efforts

Wow, so if I pirated one movie, that completely negates all the other sales? Shit, maybe I should watch out, then...

If everyone went to pirating, the studios would be forced to change how they make their profit. They would probably be the seeders of the film, and somehow be able to profit off of the people seeding off them or something. There are already studios who "leak" their products before launch on torrent sites TO FURTHER PROFIT.

>not realize that pirating has actually made products sell

What do you say to studios who using pirating? Does that bug you?

On April 16 2014 16:52 Gnarly wrote: >if you "stole", which I'll correct to digitally copying, their movie, they aren't getting paid for their efforts

No you will not "correct" that. You cant digitally copy someones labor. You cant digitally copy the 80 hours of work they spent per week for the last 2 months filming it, and the 6 months they spent editing it. Remember, you arent paying for the product, you are paying for the labor. Why do you think a Camaro costs $30,000? Because thats how much a bunch of steel and plastic costs? NO. The cost of the raw materials when you buy anything, whether it's a loaf of bread, a jug of milk, or a sportscar is merely an expense from the builder being passed along to you. It cost them 12 cents per pound of steel to build your car, so they are going to charge you 20 cents per pound to cover their cost and the time it took to mold it.

On April 16 2014 16:52 Gnarly wrote: Wow, so if I pirated one movie, that completely negates all the other sales? Shit, maybe I should watch out, then...

Uh no, it doesnt negate ALL the sales Mr. Extreme, but obviously it does negate it to some degree. The more people who do it, the more it gets negated.

If everyone went to pirating, the studios would be forced to change how they make their profit. They would probably be the seeders of the film, and somehow be able to profit....

until you can answer that part you have no business pirating peoples shit and basically telling them to "figure out how to profit".

There are already studios who "leak" their products before launch on torrent sites TO FURTHER PROFIT.

lol if there's any truth to this it would only be to stir publicity for a film. If piracy made the money then the film would not need to be leaked, they would just post it on youtube FOR FREE. All a leak can do is interest viewers into renting it FOR MONEY who otherwise are too lazy or dont know how to pirate. Money does not just magically get deposited into a filmmakers bank account just because people saw the film.

>not realize that pirating has actually made products sell What do you say to studios who using pirating? Does that bug you?

It's not the piracy that makes the product sell genius. It's the EXPOSURE. It's pretty easy for people to learn of your product if you give it away for free. Consider it like offering a coupon, the goal is to entice people into SPENDING MONEY. Like when a musician releases a few tracks or even an entire album for free. He hopes that you will either become interested in his music and pay for the next album, or pay to see him in concert, or help him get noticed by a larger studio so he can land a gig playing on TV, or have his music purchased for the soundtrack to a film, etc etc etc. Eventually at some point he has to get paid otherwise he cant fucking do it. And if his little leak experiment fails, then he sinks and thats it. It's a gamble that has worked for some companies before, but you cannot directly equate the act of a free-release to spontaneously generate revenue all by itself. You think when Bank of America learns that Transformers 9 has been leaked they say "bravo Paramount, we just added a couple of zeroes to your balance"?

>no you will not correct that








I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. I can't stop laughing and it's been like ten minutes. I need to walk away.

I guess you give up then.

Imagine the second to last picture. That's my face even looking at the title of this thread.

>no you will not correct that

Probably the funniest post ever on this site.

>Remember, you arent paying for the product, you are paying for the labor. Why do you think a Camaro costs $30,000? Because thats how much a bunch of steel and plastic costs? NO. The cost of the raw materials when you buy anything, whether it's a loaf of bread, a jug of milk, or a sportscar is merely an expense from the builder being passed along to you. It cost them 12 cents per pound of steel to build your car, so they are going to charge you 20 cents per pound to cover their cost and the time it took to mold it.

So, let me get this straight. I'm not paying for the product, which the materials needed cost more than the staffing costs, but paying for the labor which is around 25% of the total cost?

>labor

Right... Aren't automobile manufacturers automating the process more and more and more?

Oh, you forgot the fact that you can't buy the vehicle straight from the manufacturer, you have to buy it from a dealership, who bough the cars in bulk from the manufacturer, meaning they have to further raise the price. So, really, when I'm buying a car, I'm really just paying the guy who sold it to me, cause the people who made the car already got paid. Now, why the fuck would I want to give some kid money for simply talking to me, when I'd rather give my money straight to the people who helped make the car along with the help of computers, at a lower cost?

What you're failing to grasp is the root cause of all pricing in the first place. You cant just say that Ford buys their screws from China and thats the end of it. How did that screw come to exist in the first place? Because China bought it from a factory that makes screws. Well how did that factory come to make screws? Because they bought a screw making machine from some company in Russia. Well how did that russian company make the screw making machine? And what kind of screws hold that machine together? It's not like raw product just spawned into existence and somebody decided to sell it. Each time someone built something that would later be used to build something else, that would yet again be used to build something else, the price went up. The price went up because of the additional labor required each time to create it. Labor is the ultimate driving factor in anything. Without labor the product never exists. This is why it's so important you respect the work that someone puts forth and not just the cost of what they used to execute that work. And as long as you're going to employ this pathetic copout of "I just duplicated data" then you need to be reminded that it's not the data you paid for, it's the labor that went into creating that data.

Just because someone budgets "25% labor" for the construction of the space shuttle does not mean that the space shuttle itself exists as a biproduct of the cost of the materials representing 75% of its budget. But nobody bothers to look beyond this because it's irrelevant, unless you're stealing. You might as well say a NASA manager could tell his rocket scientist "guys you arent being paid today, we simply duplicated your work and dont need to pay for the effort you put forth creating it. Nevermind the 80 hours you spent this month doing it, that doesnt count. You used a computer to design this engine, and that design is simply an idea, that exists digitally, so we cant steal it from you!". They would all quit and the project would never be finished. The only reason you're able to pirate a movie is because you know movies will be made despite your theft, because someone else out there is willing to pay.

You're still stuck in this childlike mentality of "i copy movie, movie made by studio, studio paid by investor, studio not lose anything, copying ok". When people dont feel like it's worth their effort to make something anymore because someone like you does not respect the skill required to do so because you cant wrap your mind around the complexity of a design process and simply look at the immediate end result, they stop working for you.

>This is why it's so important you respect the work

See, that's the problem. You feel that respect is owed to these people. I don't. Respect is earned, not given.

>stealing

There's that word again. What am I stealing?

>You might as well say a NASA manager could tell his rocket scientist "guys you arent being paid today, we simply duplicated your work and dont need to pay for the effort you put forth creating it. Nevermind the 80 hours you spent this month doing it, that doesnt count. You used a computer to design this engine, and that design is simply an idea, that exists digitally, so we cant steal it from you!"

This is another problem. You think ideas are someone's properties. Regardless of the fact that the engineer is on a contract and is legally to be paid, you seem to misconstrue it as that you can enslave someone.

>stop working for you

But the consumer is a mass.

>You're still stuck in this childlike mentality of "i copy movie, movie made by studio, studio paid by investor, studio not lose anything, copying ok". When people dont feel like it's worth their effort to make something anymore because someone like you does not respect the skill required to do so because you cant warp your mind around the complexity of a design process and simply look at the immediate end result, they stop working for you.

Ad hom like fuck.

I guess I'm not making my points very well because your responses to me make no sense. The only thing I can discretely answer for you is this whole "what am I stealing?" question you have problem understanding. You are stealing the 8 months of time 1000 individuals dedicated to produce your movie. If you only place value on tangible objects, then you should have told them that, and they would have said "well then wtf am I doing this for, I could be outside building a house, something someone has to pay me for if they want to get the keys". Now they are at a loss. How are they supposed to pay their bills and put food on the table if you just stiffed them and said "sorry sir, your movie is just an idea that I am duplicating"?

This is another problem. You think ideas are someone's properties. Regardless of the fact that the engineer is on a contract and is legally to be paid, you seem to misconstrue it as that you can enslave someone.

No I didnt say ideas are someones property, I said the labor required to produce the idea is, and that is what you have stolen. They had the idea, you did not. You could never have had their idea. They are smarter than you, and that is why you are paying them for their idea, because they can do something you cant. Without them the idea never happens. Whether or not someone is under contract is irrelevant (and ironic since you're already breaking the law, who cares if a manager does it then?). I dont even know what you're getting at with the "enslave someone" comment.

but the consumer is a mass

Huh?

And there's no ad hominem in my last statement. You earlier said that it doesnt matter if you steal a movie because the director got paid, as if his payment is the end of the supply chain when it comes to producing films. You fail to trace back the person who paid him, and the person before that, etc.

This is the thing I don't get with your argument... Are you saying that I, as the consumer, or I, as the employer?

>you could never have had their idea

There you go, being a control freak. Sorry to burst your bubble, but people can come up with the same ideas and not realize others have come up with it before. There's no law of physics preventing that.

Could you have built the large hadron collider? Some people can do things that you can't. That's why you pay them for their time. What if I'm an amateur filmmaker, who produces his own work and then sells it to put food on the table. I am going to film some nature video of bears in their natural habitat. I purchase a backpack, food, training, camera equipment, plane rental, and spend 1 month in the wildnerness. I come back to sell the footage, and you just "digitally duplicate" it and thank me for my time. How the fuck am I supposed to eat now? How am I supposed to recover the costs involved with producing that video that you duplicated? How am I supposed to recover the money I spent from the 30 days that I now have gone without pay? How can you not possibly see this as stealing from me?

So, are you implying that I'm in some sort of... social contract and am financially obligated to house and feed each and every producer that produced something that entertained me?

If you can't sell your shit as an amateur, it's not my fault. You obviously know that people like your shit, so it's UP TO YOU TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROFIT OFF OF IT. It's almost like you want a government quota on how many people are to buy x movie and y movie and z game and shit. It's NOT my fault you took the risk without getting a fucking contract or some sort of leverage in the first place. Please tell me you're trolling with that ideology.

Each and every producer? What? No, I'm saying you are obligated to pay ME for watching MY shit. If you dont want to PAY, then dont watch. Do you sign a contract each time you enter the grocery store not to open a bag of Doritos and eat them in the aisle without paying? No, the contract is implied. Thats why there's a law against stealing. You cant just take someones shit and then say "show me the contract" to get out of paying.

UP TO YOU TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO PROFIT OFF OF IT

I did figure out how to profit off of it, I put a fucking price tag on it and said "pay me 5 bucks to watch this sweet nature video I made".

You can't ever compare with physical inventory. If I'm going in there and physically taking their inventory, then they have less inventory. When it's digital, they literally have unlimited.

What if I were to watch a friends movie? Should I still pay then? Kinda like how they want to with the xbone? Unless they are already doing that. Do you REALLY think everyone must pay when they watch information?

What if no one paid you five bucks to watch your video because I can watch similar quality if not better videos for free on youtube?

On April 24 2014 23:40 Gnarly wrote: You can't ever compare with physical inventory. If I'm going in there and physically taking their inventory, then they have less inventory. When it's digital, they literally have unlimited.

I did use physical inventory. I had to eat food and buy physical things to make the video for you. That is part of what you are paying for. How does that not count? Plus there is the time I spent making it, you are paying for my time.

What if I were to watch a friends movie? Should I still pay then? Kinda like how they want to with the xbone? Unless they are already doing that. Do you REALLY think everyone must pay when they watch information?

What if you had 10 million friends. Should any of them have to pay? Or should a movie studio spend $200,000,000 on the sequel to Avatar and just sell 1 ticket for $12 and let everyone's friend come watch it with him?

What if no one paid you five bucks to watch your video because I can watch similar quality if not better videos for free on youtube?

Then I make a video that's worth paying for. Thats my fault if nobody wants to see it. But if you do, then you must pay.

You're not making the video for me. You're making the video because A: it's your passion. I'm not asking for the video to be made. I can't be stealing your time, either. One, you're not enslaved to me. Two, you chose to make what you made on your own free will.

If I had 10 million friends wanting to watch a movie at my house, I'd need a building large enough for that to happen. I'd charge for them to get in, charge for food and drinks, and then probably charge for parking, too.

If the studio knew that people don't go to the studios as often, why the fuck would they target the theaters? They'd be better off targeting internet streaming. If they can't adapt, they deserve to go under.

I could always just watch your video that someone else bought, record it there, and then have it for my own personal use. Is that stealing? Pirating is very convenient for the quality, but there are other ways of getting what I want without paying. You're not going to be able to force me to pay for information. You're taking the risk to profit off of it, so it's up to you to find out where the best route is for profit. Why not try to monetize off of me simply watching the video on my computer on a website like youtube?

You can even monetize your fame on 4chan. Top kek.

On April 25 2014 11:33 Gnarly wrote: You're not making the video for me. You're making the video because A: it's your passion. I'm not asking for the video to be made. I can't be stealing your time, either. One, you're not enslaved to me. Two, you chose to make what you made on your own free will.

Nobody made that jug of milk in the grocery store for you either. They just made it and put it out there for anyone who is willing to pay for it. You seem to think you dont owe anyone money unless you request the product, at which point then the product is created. 2000 years ago thats how business worked. We also rode animals to town and cities consisted of about a dozen people since you couldnt supply anything without receiving payment up front to cover the costs.

If I had 10 million friends wanting to watch a movie at my house, I'd need a building large enough for that to happen. I'd charge for them to get in, charge for food and drinks, and then probably charge for parking, too.

So you would own a movie theater. Funny, thats exactly how movies are distributed. Yet you come along, make a copy of it, and act like it's nothing. How about you go buy that big building and parking lot with drinks to serve, then all 10 million people just watch your movie without paying and say "I didnt steal any physical goods".

If the studio knew that people don't go to the studios as often, why the fuck would they target the theaters? They'd be better off targeting internet streaming. If they can't adapt, they deserve to go under.

People stealing your shit isnt a failure to adapt, thats just people being assholes. How about I just punch you in the face and take your wallet and then blame you for letting it happen?

I could always just watch your video that someone else bought, record it there, and then have it for my own personal use. Is that stealing? Pirating is very convenient for the quality, but there are other ways of getting what I want without paying. You're not going to be able to force me to pay for information. You're taking the risk to profit off of it, so it's up to you to find out where the best route is for profit. Why not try to monetize off of me simply watching the video on my computer on a website like youtube?

Well I would, but you're acting like if you can find a way to watch it without paying then you should be allowed to do so. People like you are the reason we have these draconian anti-piracy technologies in the first place. You're the reason I have to go through all the bullshit just to get my movie to the point that I'm now driven towards piracy because it's so goddamn inconvenient because studios know you'll do anything to watch it for free.

You can even monetize your fame on 4chan. Top kek.

Dont say that.

>few dozen people

Do you even Rome? I'm wondering if I should even keep reading at this point.

The thing about my example is that I would be charging them to park or to enter, not to watch the film. See the difference? So, if they came into my parking lot without paying, they would be cutting out someone who could be paying, as in there's a physical limit. I would want that person who wants to be able to watch the film to be able to watch the film.

People stealing your shit is adapting. By having people steal your shit, you're being too stubborn to look into why they would consider stealing it over actually paying for it.

I would say that if you hit me in the face, I did let it happen. I mean, I didn't do anything to stop it, did I? I could always become defensive at the sight of a certain type of person... Though, I'm not sure what that has to deal with piracy other than you simply venting your personal anger at me.

If you can't beat them, join them. Though, if studios know that I'd rather watch for free, they should try to monetize off of my traffic. It's their product, it's their risk, it's their worry about how to profit. Not mine.

I should be allowed to do something for free like watching a movie at a friends house. Do you think that should be illegal?

>don't say that

Look at Boxxy. Have you seen her very recent video? It's quite amazing the transformation she's done.

>don't say that
>don't do this
>don't think these things
>dont agree with this
>don't disagree with that
>don't watch this movie from across the hall even though we're living in the same house
>that's stealing

So when you charge people to see a movie in your movie theater, you arent charging them to actually see the movie, you are just charging them a fee for parking in your parking lot? So if you're able to charge for a tandem event that has nothing to do with actually viewing the content, why cant I charge you for the time and expenses I put forth in filming my movie? I'm not charging you for the movie, I'm charging you for what it cost for me to present you the movie, same as you charging for parking instead of the actual movie. How would you feel if I bought 1 ticket to your movie, put a camera up in your theater, and then live streamed the movie to the internet so nobody else had to come pay for your parking?

As for hitting you in the face, as fun as that would be, it actually had nothing to do with my anger towards you. It was merely an example of me doing something to you that you couldnt stop. You pirate a movie and then blame the studio for failing to protect their assets. But obviously they are trying to protect them. They encrypt them, try to put them behind a paywall, etc. You just found a way to circumvent that. Well maybe if I try to hit you you might actually defend yourself, but just because you try doesnt mean you will succeed. Is it still your fault if I'm bigger and stronger than you cand you cant defend yourself?

If the studios really wanted to make sure that each and every person who wants to watch their movie had to pay, then they could have movies only be available in theaters. No rentals, no bluray, no online streaming, just go the theater model only route. Is that what you would prefer? Does that make anyone's life better? It obviously would put a big dent in piracy. But the reason they dont is because they can make even more money by releasing it in a more user friendly format and just trust that the general populace arent a bunch of scumbag thieves and will still pay for it. The people like you are basically "the cost of doing business". You're basically a nuisance that they have come to live with. Give yourself a pat on the back for being a bottom feeder of society, I have a feeling this extends beyond your piracy and you're probably an overall douchebag in all walks of life. It's just your mentality that shines through as evidence of that.

As for "public performance" such as letting your family all watch a single movie together in the living room (or across the hall), if the studios had a magic wand and could somehow make your 6 yr old sister and 70 yr old grandma all have to pay to watch the same movie in the living room, people would simply not watch the movie. The studios know this, so they understand it is worth it to let someone rent 1 movie and share it with their family because some money is better than no money. But this isnt you. You are guaranteed a "no money viewer" every single time. It doesnt matter what they do you are just out to get it for free so it doesnt really matter how difficult they make piracy, you are never going to pay.

And no I havent seen boxxy. Why the fuck would I? I know who/what she is because I saw someone link to a video of her like 5 years ago but thats about it. The fact that you keep up to date with something like that is part of what's wrong with you. You need to let that shit go man, it's childish.

You can charge me, but good luck getting me to actually pay. Why not make a deal with me, so you can hedge against your risk? Become a studio and give me exclusive films, and I'll give you guaranteed traffic space.

Though, if you put up a camera, I could have security kick you out. Then again, I'd probably make sure you wouldn't be getting in in the first place, you trouble maker, you.

>try to encrypt them

Guess what? Those studios have to pay someone to do that.

>paywall

Guess what? Studios gotta pay for that.

There's something in common there, hopefully you can see it.

If I could be bigger and stronger than you, and I know it, and I choose not to, then as well as not learning how to defend myself, yet able to learn, then it would be my fault. You can probably see where I can go with that.

>only in theaters
>100% everyone paying

They would kill their consumer base, they would never do that.

>scumbag thieves

I'm actually laughing. I don't think you like the real world very much.

>ad homs, bottom feeder, douchebag

That's also pretty funny. I can't take you serious with that pretentious attitude.

>so they understand and let someone rent 1 movie to get some money
>cause if they charge anyone caught in the room while the movie was playing and got charged, they wouldn't watch the movie

Couldn't you apply the very same logic to the price of a dvd? Why not let some people buy the movie and then let them pirate it, cause hey, that's some money which is better than less money?

Because she had a recent video come out apparently she's become quite sophisticated and the network she seems to have been able to build based off of her 4chan fame is quite impressive.

>its childish

I don't have like a calendar of memes or some shit, I mostly browse boards like /vg/ or /g/ or /ck/ or the other artsy boards, cause ya know, I do enjoy muh art and I cook and I listen to music and like to broaden my library. You dismissing social media as childish is childish in itself. That's like saying people who still watch cat videos on youtube are childish.

You have such a narrow mind.